how to protect children from their abusive father during visitation - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 38 Old 04-24-2011, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So, in a perfect world, no mother would be forced to send their children to unsupervised visitation with their abuser. But as we know, this is not always possible, and the courts force parents to do this at an alarming rate.

  I realize that this may be what happens in my custody case, and that I will face going to jail or losing my children if I do not comply.  So my question is, what can I do to prepare/protect my children in this instance? Cell phone with instructions to call 911? Ok, but what if he takes it from them?  What if it enrages him further? Anyone who has been in this situation care to share some advice with me? 

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#2 of 38 Old 04-24-2011, 04:33 PM
 
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You can't. I'm sorry. Pray.

 

I did buy my kids a cell phone and I did teach them to call 911 and I also taught them to run for help and what  to do if anything happened. However the dad does take their cell phone every single time and all I can do is sit and pray for their safe return. Like my lawyer says, you just gotta wait until the abuser messes up or hurts one of the kids before you can finally show that supervised visitation is the only way to go.

 

I'm currently sitting and praying waiting for my own children's safe return. My ex is violating our court order as we speak, he is not letting me talk to the kids at all while they are with him. Good luck

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#3 of 38 Old 04-24-2011, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You can't. I'm sorry. Pray.

 

I did buy my kids a cell phone and I did teach them to call 911 and I also taught them to run for help and what  to do if anything happened. However the dad does take their cell phone every single time and all I can do is sit and pray for their safe return. Like my lawyer says, you just gotta wait until the abuser messes up or hurts one of the kids before you can finally show that supervised visitation is the only way to go.

 

I'm currently sitting and praying waiting for my own children's safe return. My ex is violating our court order as we speak, he is not letting me talk to the kids at all while they are with him. Good luck



Oh gosh! I'm so sorry! hug2.gif Unfortunately, that is what I am thinking may have to happen if/when visitations happen. I will just have to hope that he doesn't hurt them too badly.  gloomy.gif

 

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#4 of 38 Old 04-25-2011, 07:12 AM
 
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Unfortunately every person I know in this situation and every professional I talked to... until physical abuse happens while the kids are in that parent's care... there isn't much you can do but pray.  :-( 

 

I don't know why this country (usa) won't get their acts together and their heads out of their "uav violations inserted here"


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#5 of 38 Old 04-25-2011, 06:45 PM
 
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nak

 

unfortunately, it took my dd being molested while in her father's care to get visitation revoked.

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#6 of 38 Old 04-26-2011, 07:47 AM
 
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I don't have direct experience with this, but from reading on here, I've learned the importance of building the document trail as you go. For instance, if your kids are in therapy right now, then if anything bad happens while at their dad's, they can talk to the therapist and that will help the case a lot. If you wait and get them in therapy after something happens, it could be twisted to look like you're making things up to get his visitation taken away.


 

 

 

 

 

 


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#7 of 38 Old 04-29-2011, 09:14 AM
 
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how old are your kids?  that makes a difference in strategy.

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#8 of 38 Old 04-29-2011, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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They are under 10, but not babies.  I wish I could be more specific, but I have stalking issues, and am really nervous to post at all.  I do appreciate everyone's replies and help. :)

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#9 of 38 Old 05-01-2011, 04:27 PM
 
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Lundy Bancroft, author of Why Does He Do That?  also has a book out about helping kids recover from domestic abuse.  I have it on hold at the library, but it hasn't come in yet.  Also, if you get them counseling at wherever your local DV advocacy group recommends, then the counselor can often testify in court if you release them to.  I tried to get counseling at the local center for Women and Families here but I was assigned a grad student who sucked and I really thought she would do more damage than good so we quit.  But now I realize that her testifying in court would have really helped us. 

 

We talk about stuff openly.  That daddy needed to go to the doctor to learn how to stop yelling.  That healthy people don't act on their rage like that.  That the Judge said daddy was not allowed to treat us like that any more, and so he needed to be somewhere else.  When they ask why or questions about the divorce, I openly ask if they remember daddy yelling at me and them, and I say that no one is allowed to treat me or them like that.  Sometimes they tell people in public that daddy yelled at us too much and drank and that's why we're getting divorced, but that embarassment is okay with me, if maybe it meants they won't repeat the pattern and partner with an abuser when they grow up.  But I am a no-holds-barred, complete honesty kind of gal, and mine are almost 5 and 8. 

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#10 of 38 Old 05-01-2011, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you. I'm working on finding some counseling for them.  I agree with being honest with the kids.  I think our approaches are very similar.  It doesn't do any good to sugar coat things with kids, especially kids who have been through hell with abuse and alcoholism.  I feel I owe it to them to give them the facts, so that maybe they don't make the choices I made in adulthood.

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#11 of 38 Old 05-02-2011, 05:24 PM
 
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Also, some therapy can help them re-hash and think over past experiences, but cognitive behavioral therapy can help them deal with difficult emotions they have now and will have in the future.  In counseling for child molestation victims, they talk about safety issues and do role playing about scenarios, and say no one is allowed to do X.  If X happens, you do Y.  Run, scream bloody murder, find an adult who looks like grandma, etc.  IDK if there is a name for that kind of counseling, but you need it for your kids.  If you are paying for a counselor, don't just go for a licensed professional counselor, look for someone versed in your issues. 

 

I don't know what kind of abuse you're dealing with.  If you can get your kids openly talking about the issues, you could also cultivate a relationship between them and a mandatory reporter (teacher, doctor, social worker, guidance counselor, whomever).  They will be nervous when openly talking to you about these issues, and then the counselor, and you will have to reassure them often that it is nice, great, whatever that you all can talk about it.  Then try to get them comfortable with the idea of talking to the mandatory reporter about the issue, and hope he or she does as she is supposed to.

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#12 of 38 Old 05-03-2011, 04:22 AM
 
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I don't have any advice for you at all but I just wanted to give some huge hugs and send positive energy and light for you and your family. What a horrible thing to have to deal with and I hope that things only get better for you. stillheart.gif

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#13 of 38 Old 05-03-2011, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Also, some therapy can help them re-hash and think over past experiences, but cognitive behavioral therapy can help them deal with difficult emotions they have now and will have in the future.  In counseling for child molestation victims, they talk about safety issues and do role playing about scenarios, and say no one is allowed to do X.  If X happens, you do Y.  Run, scream bloody murder, find an adult who looks like grandma, etc.  IDK if there is a name for that kind of counseling, but you need it for your kids.  If you are paying for a counselor, don't just go for a licensed professional counselor, look for someone versed in your issues. 

 

I don't know what kind of abuse you're dealing with.  If you can get your kids openly talking about the issues, you could also cultivate a relationship between them and a mandatory reporter (teacher, doctor, social worker, guidance counselor, whomever).  They will be nervous when openly talking to you about these issues, and then the counselor, and you will have to reassure them often that it is nice, great, whatever that you all can talk about it.  Then try to get them comfortable with the idea of talking to the mandatory reporter about the issue, and hope he or she does as she is supposed to.



Thank you, I will keep your advice in mind when looking at counseling.  Thankfully, there was not sexual abuse, but there was lots of emotional and some physical abuse. 

 

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#14 of 38 Old 05-03-2011, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't have any advice for you at all but I just wanted to give some huge hugs and send positive energy and light for you and your family. What a horrible thing to have to deal with and I hope that things only get better for you. stillheart.gif



Thank you for the positive energy, me and my kids can use all we can get.

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#15 of 38 Old 05-05-2011, 08:19 PM
 
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The fact that so many men now argue that domestic violence charges are "trumped up" is a sad comment on our society.  I am in the process of attempting to prove it in my case, and am so scared I will lose.  The real potential losers?  The kids.


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#16 of 38 Old 07-26-2012, 04:55 AM
 
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@ EarthyMama- How did you get his visitation revoked? My son was raped by his step-brother & repeatedly fondled by his Father - all while in his care. They pled out on the step-brother's case, and the grand jury did not indict the Father. My son suffers from post traumatic stress disorder from all the trauma he's been through while in his Father's care.  Today I have to tell him I have failed to protect him.  The judge just ordered visitation to resume with Father (unsupervised) immediately.  I am heartsick! 

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#17 of 38 Old 07-29-2012, 10:25 AM
 
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Lundy Bancroft, author of Why Does He Do That?  also has a book out about helping kids recover from domestic abuse. 

Thank you so much for this book recommendation. "When Dad Hurts Mom: Helping Your Children Heal the Wounds of Witnessing Violence". I am reading it right now. It is extremelly hepful. I only wish women who were currently in abusive relationships could read it (I wish I had a long time ago).l

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#18 of 38 Old 07-29-2012, 11:04 AM
 
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Oh, I just realized this is a year old thread. It is a helpful topic for many mothers though.

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#19 of 38 Old 09-25-2013, 05:28 AM
 
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Hi there,

 

I am in the same situation as you.  My ex husband stalks me and gets people to stalk me and ransack my house.  He always abuse my son during visitation, mostly mentally, like locking him in his car for over an hour, or use a metal fork to force open his mouth.  There is nothing I can do.  My country's law in protecting children sucks.  The police and the family support units don't do anything to help although I reported to them.  I need a lot of support to go through this.  Can we be friends?

 

Best Regards

Llik CN

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#20 of 38 Old 09-25-2013, 10:28 AM
 
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The fact that so many men now argue that domestic violence charges are "trumped up" is a sad comment on our society.  I am in the process of attempting to prove it in my case, and am so scared I will lose.  The real potential losers?  The kids.

Some domestic violence charges are trumped up. I personally, in real life, know THREE women who have made false accusations of domestic violence or sexual assault. These are accusations that I KNOW to be false for certain, and one of the women even later apologized for her actions. In one of the other cases, it was another tool used by an abusive woman against the man she had been abusing. Sometimes, the crazy and even violent ones are women, and men and children deserve to be protected from them, too -- including being protected against legal ramifications due to false allegations.

ETA: I remembered another one. Make that FOUR women I know who have knowingly made false accusations. And these aren't cases where I know a guy and he tells me some woman is lying about him. I know the women, and I have either seen the evidence with my own eyes, like I saw her being abusive and then claiming it was him, or they have admitted that they lied.

That said, my dad was an alcoholic, a drug addict, and a wife-beater, and I am forever grateful that I don't even remember any of that because of my mother getting full custody when I was four. So I also understand that side, and I seriously empathize with any mother struggling to protect her child from a man like my dad. I am so, so sorry for those you who have had to go through this, and I pray that your children will be safe! hug.gif

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#21 of 38 Old 09-26-2013, 08:36 AM
 
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Dear Michelle,

 

Thank you for your comments.  I am curious as to how you are able to find 4 abusive woman whom you are CERTAIN they lie about their abuse on their men and children.  However, I'm happy for you that your own mum, which is your real life experience, is nothing of the sort and she takes very good care of you.  I'm sure you will also love her and take very good care of her.

 

I'm not sure if you are married or if you have any children or if you are a single parent.  Just to give you a little insight.  First of all, all women have mother instincts and love their own children.  Secondly, most single mums do not have the time to take revenge or plot or lie.  If they do, it normally does not last because they simply don't have the time to follow it through.  This is because biologically, the physical strength and ability of a 65 year old man is equivalent to that of a 25 year old woman i.e. a 65 year old man has as much strengths, stamina, willpower, etc etc as a 25 year old woman.  If you are above 25, you are weaker than an old man (not to say a young man below 65) and trust me, when it comes to taking revenge, lying, plotting evil plans, etc etc, you will sure lose out to the man, just that you may not know as the man will not tell you that you lose.  Thirdly, beware of men who are overly petty and vicious much more than women.

 

Love,

Llik CN

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#22 of 38 Old 09-26-2013, 11:16 AM
 
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Dear Michelle,

Thank you for your comments.  I am curious as to how you are able to find 4 abusive woman whom you are CERTAIN they lie about their abuse on their men and children.  However, I'm happy for you that your own mum, which is your real life experience, is nothing of the sort and she takes very good care of you.  I'm sure you will also love her and take very good care of her.

I'm not sure if you are married or if you have any children or if you are a single parent.  Just to give you a little insight.  First of all, all women have mother instincts and love their own children.  Secondly, most single mums do not have the time to take revenge or plot or lie.  If they do, it normally does not last because they simply don't have the time to follow it through.  This is because biologically, the physical strength and ability of a 65 year old man is equivalent to that of a 25 year old woman i.e. a 65 year old man has as much strengths, stamina, willpower, etc etc as a 25 year old woman.  If you are above 25, you are weaker than an old man (not to say a young man below 65) and trust me, when it comes to taking revenge, lying, plotting evil plans, etc etc, you will sure lose out to the man, just that you may not know as the man will not tell you that you lose.  Thirdly, beware of men who are overly petty and vicious much more than women.

Love,
Llik CN

Thanks for your "insight." First of all, I didn't have to do anything to find the women I mentioned. Trust me, no one goes LOOKING in hopes of finding a relative who hurts her children, especially not when you yourself are a child. Secondly, maybe all women have mother instincts, but I assure you that some women, just like some men, have other issues that they put before those instincts. IME, it's usually related to hardcore drug use.

(PS, the use of all caps in "certain" was rather condescending. Do you think I don't know what it looks like to see a woman abuse her husband and children, with my own eyes, and then say that he was the one hitting her? I don't want to go into too many details about the others, because I use my real name to post here, but yes, I am CERTAIN. And yes, that is part of my "real life experience.")

I am sure that the vast majority of mothers, single or not, do not hurt their children, plot revenge against their husbands, lie about abuse, etc. But most men also don't beat their wives in front of their children, while their 2yo son tries to fend the attack off with a plastic bat, begging Daddy not to hurt Mommy anymore. Yet I have seen both of those things with my own eyes. One of the sad things that we all have to come to terms with eventually is that, even though most people are good, some people in this world simply are not. And some of those people are women.

It is true that most men are physically stronger than most women. First of all, that doesn't do much good for men who are afraid to fight back or defend themselves. Many men have had it so ingrained into them to never hit a woman (which is a good thing) that they simply can't respond to a physical attack from a woman. Secondly, it doesn't make any difference at all with emotional abuse, which is how I would categorize intentional false accusations. And personally, I find the implication that women are simply not capable of that kind of abuse to be narrow-minded and an incredibly harmful attitude towards those who have been hurt by women, either as children or adults. It's really no better than refusing to believe that a man would hurt his wife because "he's such a nice guy."

Michelle, wife to DH, and momma to DD16, DS15, DS12, DS10, DD9, DD7, DS5, and baby girl born Christmas Eve 2013!
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#23 of 38 Old 09-26-2013, 12:13 PM
 
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Dear Michelle,

 

Thank you for your comments.  I am curious as to how you are able to find 4 abusive woman whom you are CERTAIN they lie about their abuse on their men and children.  However, I'm happy for you that your own mum, which is your real life experience, is nothing of the sort and she takes very good care of you.  I'm sure you will also love her and take very good care of her.

 

I'm not sure if you are married or if you have any children or if you are a single parent.  Just to give you a little insight.  First of all, all women have mother instincts and love their own children.  Secondly, most single mums do not have the time to take revenge or plot or lie.  If they do, it normally does not last because they simply don't have the time to follow it through.  This is because biologically, the physical strength and ability of a 65 year old man is equivalent to that of a 25 year old woman i.e. a 65 year old man has as much strengths, stamina, willpower, etc etc as a 25 year old woman.  If you are above 25, you are weaker than an old man (not to say a young man below 65) and trust me, when it comes to taking revenge, lying, plotting evil plans, etc etc, you will sure lose out to the man, just that you may not know as the man will not tell you that you lose.  Thirdly, beware of men who are overly petty and vicious much more than women.

 

Love,

Llik CN

 

 

All women do NOT have the instincts to love and mother their own children, or at least not all women have GOOD instincts and listen to them. If that were true, there would be no abusive mothers. But there are way too many. And people like you are why innocent children get trapped with abusive mothers- because people think that all women are good parents.

 

 

There are women who have abused men. They may be less common, but it does happen. There are women who are stronger than some men- some men are very weak due to disabilities/etc, some women are just very strong and/or trained to fight.  Women can also make use of weapons. Not all men are trained how to disarm someone brandishing a knife or firearm, and even people who are trained to do so aren't always able to without getting hurt.


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#24 of 38 Old 09-26-2013, 01:22 PM
 
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All women do NOT have the instincts to love and mother their own children, or at least not all women have GOOD instincts and listen to them. If that were true, there would be no abusive mothers. But there are way too many. And people like you are why innocent children get trapped with abusive mothers- because people think that all women are good parents.


There are women who have abused men. They may be less common, but it does happen. There are women who are stronger than some men- some men are very weak due to disabilities/etc, some women are just very strong and/or trained to fight.  Women can also make use of weapons. Not all men are trained how to disarm someone brandishing a knife or firearm, and even people who are trained to do so aren't always able to without getting hurt.

Thank you. I feel bad now for starting controversy in this thread; I just saw that one comment and felt like it needed a response. But the main thing should be supporting those who are being forced by the courts to hand their children over to abusers. That is just absolutely tragic, and I wish the courts were better at getting to the truth (whatever it is) and protecting those who need it. greensad.gif
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#25 of 38 Old 09-27-2013, 12:15 PM
 
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Pray.
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#26 of 38 Old 09-27-2013, 09:58 PM
 
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I'd suggest doing more than praying.

 

Laws don't change until there's sufficient push. As of now, it doesn't sound as though you know where legislation about these things is. Sometimes what the legal advocates need is stories, poster children. So I would suggest contacting a local women's center, if you have one, or -- if you don't -- contacting a women's center at a state university or in your state's largest city. Find out which legislators work on these issues and with whom. Look them up and read their bills. Get in touch with them and tell them: I am the woman whose children you are trying to protect; what can I do to work with you?

 

It may go nowhere; you may find a solid friend; you may help change the law. But these things don't begin until you reach out to the right people, so instead of fretting in their absence, start working that internet. And document, document, document.

 

Fingers crossed for everybody's safe return.

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#27 of 38 Old 10-13-2013, 04:51 AM
 
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I am terrified I am facing the same future with my children. Sending them to visitation with their abusive father. They do no want to go, they have done the interviews and told the truth,

it seems like no one listens to them but me. What can we do? there must be something....

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#28 of 38 Old 10-14-2013, 06:03 PM
 
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When you say no one listens but you, what has happened, and who have they talked to?

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#29 of 38 Old 10-15-2013, 06:47 AM
 
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Michelle,

 

I think only those who have taken care of children (for at least 5 years continuously) themselves can truly comment on whether woman abuse children.  If you have not, then I guess your comments are all from hearsay.

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#30 of 38 Old 10-16-2013, 06:40 AM
 
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Michelle,

I think only those who have taken care of children (for at least 5 years continuously) themselves can truly comment on whether woman abuse children.  If you have not, then I guess your comments are all from hearsay.

What? First off, having actually witnessed a female relative abusing her children does not make me qualified to say whether women ever abuse children? What kind of messed up logic is that? My own personal experiences are "hearsay" because...? The sheer gall of your dismissal of my own first-hand personal experiences is appalling.

Secondly, what on earth makes you think I haven't taken care of children? Not only am I posting on a message board FOR MOTHERS, but my signature clearly indicates that I am pregnant with my EIGHTH CHILD. I have two step-children who I have raised as my own for the past twelve years, as a full-time SAHM and homeschooling them, plus soon-to-be six biological children, the oldest of whom is eleven, and to whom I have also been a full-time, stay-at-home, homeschooling mother.

So, yeah, not like I know anything at all about being a mother. I've only dedicated my entire adult life to motherhood, since I was 19 years old. Or maybe my every day experiences raising my children for more than a decade are also "hearsay."

Michelle, wife to DH, and momma to DD16, DS15, DS12, DS10, DD9, DD7, DS5, and baby girl born Christmas Eve 2013!
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