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#1 of 29 Old 04-19-2013, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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WARNING: VENT There are 2 things happening at the same time: 1) My ex (we are separated, not divorced. Divorce here requires a 3-year separation) has been with /living with GF for 9 months. One week ago they announced she is 3 months pregnant, and she is on strict bed rest. My girls did NOT take the announcement well, they cried A LOT and ex was very offended by their reaction! 2) I have been getting to know a guy who lives in another city and we can only get in touch over phone, skype, etc… In about one month we will take a week-long trip together. Since this guy is moving abroad soon, I am taking it as a brief ‘fling’, as it cannot develop into anything serious. For this reason he is the first man I have introduced to my kids as a male friend (in three years of de facto separation), and had over for a weekend as a guest – he slept on the sofa! 3) Destiny would have it that my ex’s and GF’s announcement and their discovery of my male friend happened on same day BUT the fallout is beyond me, I need INPUT!!!!! 4) The fallout: ex called me several times the following day saying that he was offended by our daughters’ reaction to their announcement and that a) he will no longer see them, b) he will no longer pay child support, c) he and GF will be moving abroad, I assume to the country she is from.!!! WTF???!!! I need to understand WTF is going on???!!! What kind of reaction is that??!! And yet, I feel TERRIFIED! Is it habit? Is it guilt? I don’t get it, I feel terrified  but WHY, what am I scared of?

P.S. the day after GF placed a letter on my door berating me and criticising my behaviour during marriage to ex.??!!

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#2 of 29 Old 04-19-2013, 01:59 PM
 
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Irrational, indeed! I think it would be worth writing out a response to him, waiting a day or two, re-write it, then send it. Make it as neutral and emotionless as possible. But you - and most importantly, your daughters - deserve a more rational explanation.

 

People don't just pick up and move abroad. This must have been something they have been discussing. Perhaps they have decided to use your daughters' reaction as a way to make the move seem like it's your fault.... when really it's a decision they knew they would look bad for making otherwise. You don't move away from your children lightly.

 

Are you able to survive without child support? Personally, I would be jumping for joy if my X moved away. But I have lots of support around me, so your situation may be different.

 

In your response to him, be clear and succinct. Explain in simple terms why your girls were upset - 'it seems the girls' reaction was a spontaneous expression of their fear of losing their father's attention. They love you (or simply, you are their father), and so such a thought was probably pretty upsetting. I think they're just scared of being replaced.' Ask for clarification about details - when they are moving, to where, how the girls will see him, his plans for the girls to visit with their brother or sister, etc. 

 

He is a total jerk, no doubt! So sorry you have to deal with this. xo

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#3 of 29 Old 04-20-2013, 11:21 AM
 
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Are you able to survive without child support? Personally, I would be jumping for joy if my X moved away. But I have lots of support around me, so your situation may be different.

Ya me too - I'd be jumping for joy.  I don't have much support around me either.

 

Any man who "punishes" his kids by refusing to see them, just b/c they are kids and have normal kid reactions, is probably a negative influence and may mess them up in the long run.  

 

Just document everything, seek out child support in spite of the planned move (so it's documented somewhere at least), let him get into arrears....and be prepared to protect yourself when/if he comes back and fights for custody (or worse tries to take your kids out of country).

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#4 of 29 Old 04-20-2013, 11:46 AM
 
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I usually only lurk here, but want to respond to the feeling of fear.

I believe in trusting my feelings, now, because I didn't when I married. That feeling of fear is telling you something on a subconscious level. You need to ask yourself what that something is. Be open to it. What comes to my mind is : are you afraid he will try to take your girls out of the country with him?

I wish you all the best! May you and yout girls be safe!
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#5 of 29 Old 04-20-2013, 01:22 PM
 
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a lot of times, my completely irrational fear when I have an altercation with my XH is just residual anxiety about having an altercation - regardless of what it's about. It just brings up every fear that I've ever had about divorce and sharing the kids, things that I'm not truly afraid of when I'm in my right mind, but that feel very big and real when I'm agitated. Ex's tend to know just the right buttons to push that send us into a tailspin. I also get really frightened about money, since I rely a lot on child support, so maybe something like that is fueling your fear??

 

but, really, he sounds a bit unhinged himself, and could his GF be more immature and insecure to send you such a letter?? 

 

take care of yourself legally. I seem to recall that Italy takes child support very seriously, even if they do make you wait forever and a day to get an actual divorce. You can be responsible for his relationship with your girls, that's up to him to screw up completely (and he seems to be doing a grand job of it right now), but you can get help with making sure he helps take care of them financially.


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#6 of 29 Old 04-20-2013, 04:11 PM
 
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That is horrible, OP greensad.gif. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. None of this is your fault, your ex is acting selfishly and childishly. I agree with a PP who said that him and his GF were looking for an excuse to move abroad so it takes some of the blame off of him. Thats BS, though, your girls didnt do anything wrong, why should they have to be automatically thrilled about this new baby? It sounds like they were already being left out, at least emotionally, from your ex's new relationship, so the announcement of a new baby probably just made them feel even more left out.

If he wants to move abroad then theres no way to stop him, but you can make his life more difficult. Document everything thats been said and done, especially details like the letter his GF left on your door since that shows animosity (in case they try to take the girls with them, God forbid), document phone calls, emails and any altercations. You can use this in court if he tries to do anything stupid. Also, you can file an emergency court order before he leaves the country to try to still obtain child support or if he comes back to this country the money will be taken from his bank account. You can also get an emergency court order to make sure he doesnt have custody rights now that he's leaving. Dont leave that door open for him, he might try to use it to his advantage (like taking the kids with him). Hide their passports in a safe. Tell your daughters what is going on so they dont get left wondering.

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#7 of 29 Old 04-20-2013, 05:09 PM
 
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Also, you can file an emergency court order before he leaves the country to try to still obtain child support or if he comes back to this country the money will be taken from his bank account. You can also get an emergency court order to make sure he doesnt have custody rights now that he's leaving. Dont leave that door open for him, he might try to use it to his advantage (like taking the kids with him). Hide their passports in a safe. Tell your daughters what is going on so they dont get left wondering.

Yes!  He sounds irrational and immature - and I would probably feel anxiety also because you just never know what irrational and immature people will do.  

If it were me, I would make legal protection the priority....and I would stop communicating anything to him other than the bare basics for the children.  Don't give him any indication whatsoever that you might be concerned about his leaving, and lack of child support.  I personally would not broach the topic of child support until you had some very clear protection orders in place (so you can prevent him from taking them with him) - I wouldn't want him to get riled up. 

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#8 of 29 Old 04-21-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you for the input. I wanted to reply earlier, but couldn't sit down at the computer until now.

Many/most encourage me first and foremost to protect my rights / kids' rights through legal action, which is something that can definitely be done, I have been in touch with my lawyer already...and yet I hesitate. Pek64 and Ruebelin you ask me what I'm afraid of, and I try to pin point it in my mind. I am not afraid he will take the kids out of the country, he has already stopped seeing them here, on his regular Saturday nights. He has point blank stopped seeing them since he found out I was seeing someone. He only took the kids for an ice-cream one Wednesday afternoon for less than 1 hour, to tell them that they have to be more accepting of his new family and that he may in the future have to work outside of the country (I believe he is easing them into the idea). He already stopped paying child support two months ago, so I'm used to not having any money from him....I guess what's happening is he has copped out of all of his responsibilities, and now he's finding new ways to make me suffer. My fear of him is probably habit/deep-rooted something. His anger makes me feel feelings of fear and guilt. I guess I feel guilty that I didn't tell him I am interested in someone, which is something we had agreed to do, and he claims he told me about GF last year as soon as he felt interested in her (which is not true though, he told me/us in August, but had met her in February and was in touch long distance for all of those months. Then GF arrived here on a Saturday in August, he told us about her on a Monday and on the Wednesday she had moved in - so he's being a bit hypocritical). I felt no need to tell him I was interested in/seeing someone, mainly because of the fact that this man is moving abroad, and will therefore not be a part of my kids' lives, or be a part of mine other than as a friend, EVEN THOUGH for the coming month I will be seeing him romantically (does that make sense?) somehow it does to me, i.e. I'm enjoying a bit of romance, but am fully aware that I has an expiration date on it, and therefore am not 'announcing' it to anyone). Despite all of these rationalisations, I feel guilty for not telling him, I hate not being truthful.

Some moms have mentioned I should write a well-pondered letter in response to him and GF, others say I should just stay quiet, not mention anything..... I'm undecided about this. On one hand I feel I should defend myself and the kids and reply (pointing out how he's being hypocritical, and also that I'm not the source of all of their problems and am not a scapegoat, am not an excuse for their decisions, etc..), on the other hand I don't feel I've done anything wrong (except not tell him about this guy) and don't need to defend myself from their attacks, and silence is probably the best response - except is it just because I'm too chicken? or is silence REALLY the best way to go?

Ugh, the feeling is awful, it's like a heavy weight. What I am unrealistically hoping for is that I REALISE that the court decided our separation agreement, I have rights, I have done nothing wrong, there is no other man living in my house or hanging out with my kids, and therefore I can LET GO OF THIS FEELING OF FEAR, and get on with my daily life as usual.

 

A couple last things: I also fear that with him going away/not having the kids, that I will no longer have any free time to continue my 'adult' social life which I was really enjoying every Saturday night for the last 18 months :-( That's a real bummer, a really big bummer. But at the saem time I realise this is exactly what he wants to happen- that I don't have time to have a social life.

AND, he has forbidden me from getting in touch with his parents i.e. my kids grandparents, who told me they are always willing to have the kids over if I ever need it, and therefore he has cut off that bridge of hope for me. And in GF's letter to me she told me she told his parents all of the dirty laundry from my past (pre-marriage), so perhaps now they might even have a very poor opinion of me :-(

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#9 of 29 Old 04-21-2013, 08:52 AM
 
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At first, my ex expressed that he seemed to expect that I would find someone else to replace him, and that that person would be the "new dad." He didn't say it with bitterness, just like that's how he thought it happens. The kids were much younger then and he wasn't all that attached to them. When I look at his experiences growing up, that's how his world worked, so it makes sense that he thought that way.

 

Just throwing it out there as a possibility.

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#10 of 29 Old 04-21-2013, 11:38 AM
 
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Ugh, the feeling is awful, it's like a heavy weight. What I am unrealistically hoping for is that I REALISE that the court decided our separation agreement, I have rights, I have done nothing wrong, there is no other man living in my house or hanging out with my kids, and therefore I can LET GO OF THIS FEELING OF FEAR, and get on with my daily life as usual.

 

 

I think there's nothing that he has any right to know in your life except where it pertains to the kids. Don't waste one moment of your energy on defending yourself to ridiculous allegations.

 

And it's not unrealistic to hope that those thoughts get deep into your reality because they are true. He really doesn't have any control over you or your life, and he can't even dictate whether or not you contact your children's grandparents. So you find out that they don't like you anymore. It sucks (been there!) but ultimately, it doesn't affect your life, especially if that family doesn't even want to have anything to do with your kids. Oh, and I can't imagine that your XIL's are going to be thrilled to find out that their son is abandoning his children and has forbidden the children from contacting their grandparents.

 

You didn't do anything wrong. He's a child who you are giving way too much control over you. Try to start seeing him in this way and I'll bet it will help you a lot.

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#11 of 29 Old 04-21-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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Really he is sitting there prodding you hoping for a response, and he is fully aware that you are mulling this over and over in your mind worrying about it. Other that getting legal issues straightend out there is nothing you can do, so stop worrying.  It's a waste of energy!

 

As to the Grandparents, I bet they would love it if you wrote them a note saying you have no idea what they have or have not been told, but you really want them in your children's life, so is there any way that we can make this happen? Give them the chance to take their own actions.

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#12 of 29 Old 04-21-2013, 05:41 PM
 
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I agree he has no right to block you from his parents. I would go ahead and contact them and get some visits happening! Likely they would be very upset with him trying to alienate them from their grand children.
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#13 of 29 Old 04-21-2013, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, I will get in touch with them about it. When ex took the kids for that one hour I called his parents because I was sure he wouldn't be there (at their house) and find out I was trying to contact them, but no one was home at the time. So I'll try and pop by their house (I happen to have an excuse, one of their bills was sent to my address and I can take it to them) or call them within the next few days.

They may have been instructed my my ex not to accept to babysit the grandkids, but I will make an attempt nonetheless. Even if not to have them over, but to have them for family lunches and basically be in touch with them!

I also don't think I can be forbidden from contacting them without some kind of court order, and what court would say the grandparents are not allowed to see their grandkids! I don't think it can be done.

Hillymum, you say:

Quote:
Really he is sitting there prodding you hoping for a response, and he is fully aware that you are mulling this over and over in your mind worrying about it.

but what response is he waiting for? He won't take my calls, etc...he's gone NO CONTACT on me. He definitely knows I'm mulling over it, THAT I can imagine.

 

Sparklefairy, you say:

 

Quote:
At first, my ex expressed that he seemed to expect that I would find someone else to replace him, and that that person would be the "new dad."

I think ex may apply this just to wash his hands of the whole situation. We broke up because he's not family-oriented, in a nut shell. In his chauvanist mind HE can have a new GF and new baby and no longer have anything to do with his existing children, and if I were to have a new relationship he would DEFINITELY say that my new BF would have to pay for my kids. he is extremely immature and will not accept the fact that THESE kids are his responsibility too.

Wow, it basically seems he's doing anything in his power to get out of his responsibilities because the end result of any scenario is always the same!

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#14 of 29 Old 04-22-2013, 05:45 AM
 
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...I also fear that with him going away/not having the kids, that I will no longer have any free time to continue my 'adult' social life which I was really enjoying every Saturday night for the last 18 months :-( That's a real bummer, a really big bummer. But at the saem time I realise this is exactly what he wants to happen- that I don't have time to have a social life.

 

It is disturbing to think of a father cutting off contact with his children, because it is a higher priority to him, to keep their mother from being able to date during his parenting time.  In fact, it's so disturbing that my first instinct would be to suspect you of unfairly demonizing him...except, yours is the only sensible explanation.  The natural, normal instinct for a parent who's upset and insecure about his ex having someone new in her life is to want more time with the kids, for fear the more time they spend with Mom and her boyfriend, the faster the BF might "replace" Dad.  So, why would your ex give up time with the kids, in response to learning you have a BF?  The motive you (who know him well) feel confident ascribing to him seems the only logical explanation.

 

If your assessment of his priorities and motives is correct, I think you have good reason to be fearful and it may be impossible, right now, to define "of what".  Your kids have a biological and emotional attachment (i.e., they are quite vulnerable) to someone willing to do something deeply hurtful to them (cut off contact), in a calculated (and clever!) effort to hurt and control you.  That is grave, unusual and disturbed.  Unfortunately, there's no telling how it may play out, in the future.  He may continue pulling away from your daughters, making them feel rejected and (with the new baby) replaced and potentially influencing what they crave and what they tolerate, in their adult relationships with men.  Or, pulling away from them now may be part of a larger, calculated manipulation:  to make the girls dread his move (since he's already giving them a taste of separation from him); worry about being replaced by his new GF and baby; all while he may expect you to be impatient and resentful because you can no longer go out on Saturday nights.  He may want to take the girls with him when he moves, but create the appearance that they want it and it was never his idea.  Wouldn't that be the best way to hurt and control you?

 

I'm not trying to be scary.  None of the possibilities are things you can't handle, by lovingly mothering your daughters, documenting what your ex does and protecting your legal rights.  I just think, with a man like that, you have good reason to be wary and watchful.  Things other fathers would never do, for fear of hurting their children, may not seem off-limits, to him.

 

AND, he has forbidden me from getting in touch with his parents i.e. my kids grandparents, who told me they are always willing to have the kids over if I ever need it, and therefore he has cut off that bridge of hope for me. And in GF's letter to me she told me she told his parents all of the dirty laundry from my past (pre-marriage), so perhaps now they might even have a very poor opinion of me :-(

 

Put your daughters and their grandparents first and your spiteful ex last.  If he isn't seeing much of the girls, himself, then his parents aren't getting to see them much either, or at all.  They may be grieving over that.  Don't facilitate your ex hurting his parents, in his efforts to hurt you.  Call them and ask if they'd like to see the girls.  Maybe offer Friday night instead of Saturday, that way when your ex doesn't show up for his Sat. visit, he can't say it's your fault for arranging for the girls to be elsewhere.  The worst his parents can do is say no.


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#15 of 29 Old 04-22-2013, 06:44 AM
 
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I agree with Vocal Minority.  Please be very careful.  He might be setting you up to lead you to believe he doesn't care about the kids so you can be caught off guard when he flees with them.  I'm so sorry to throw that very negative and scary thought out there.  But the way you describe him does sound like he is a dangerous player who cares only about himself, and see his children as possessions he can control.

 

If he is indeed not seeing the kids (to prevent you from having your Saturday nights free), then if you are okay with it, then you may want to just let that slide (and find a babysitter instead)- and let him believe that he is hurting you by doing so.  If he thinks your free time is important to you, then he'll most likely leave the kids alone.  If he thinks that the kids are priority and you don't care about your free time....then he may try to use the kids to exercise his seeming entitlement to further control and manipulate you.  I believe it's the grey rock technique (broken wing decoy).  don't let him or his family know your true fears.

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#16 of 29 Old 04-22-2013, 11:13 AM
 
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I would not give his parents unsupervised time with your children, in case he is able to manipulate them into bringing the girls to him. If they are good grandparents and you want the girls to see them, fine, but remain and keep watch. Do not give him a chance to use his parents to hurt you and your girls.
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#17 of 29 Old 04-29-2013, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have been away for a few days on a trip with my children to see relatives on my side of the family. It was planned a long time ago, but the timing really came in handy. The few days away have made my fear ease up a bit and I am building a healthier sense of what my and my children deserve.

 

Vocalminority said:

 

Quote:
It is disturbing to think of a father cutting off contact with his children, because it is a higher priority to him, to keep their mother from being able to date during his parenting time.  In fact, it's so disturbing that my first instinct would be to suspect you of unfairly demonizing him...except, yours is the only sensible explanation.

 

 

This is actually something that feeds my fear: he seems to be using me as an excuse for why he can't have a relationship with the kids anymore, and it scares me that other people fall for this and think that I am demonising him unfairly.

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#18 of 29 Old 05-02-2013, 01:34 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I spoke with ex's parents, and he found out. He called me on the phone saying that if I do so again he will come over and 'lay his hands on me'. Is it time to go to the police or something and report this? I told him that he will have to do whatever he sees fit as no one can stop me from getting in touch with his parents if I want to, because he also said he would take legal actions.

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#19 of 29 Old 05-02-2013, 06:57 AM
 
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What do his parents have to say about him not wanting you to talk with them? If they understand and want the communication and connection why on earth would they tell him? Knowing how he would react?

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#20 of 29 Old 05-02-2013, 07:28 AM
 
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I spoke with ex's parents, and he found out. He called me on the phone saying that if I do so again he will come over and 'lay his hands on me'. Is it time to go to the police or something and report this? I told him that he will have to do whatever he sees fit as no one can stop me from getting in touch with his parents if I want to, because he also said he would take legal actions.

I would probably report it.  Word for word.   It needs to be documented somewhere.  Especially b/c he threatened legal action.  He could be setting you up (and portray you as harrassing his parents?)  Who knows.   But I would also speak with someone in your area who is familiar with domestic violence issues and knows how the police react to threats of violence....so you have some guidance and an advocate who can assist.  I would start recording your interactions with him, so you have documentation to back you up in case anything ever does happen.

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#21 of 29 Old 05-02-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I went to the police and also spoke with my lawyer. The police say it's not time to make a report, as there is no actual proof, I would need to record the call next time. They were understanding and helpful. And although it wasn't written down, I have BEEN to the station and they know my story. I was actually so worried he was going to come to my house this morning and pound my door down that I made sure my neighbour was home in case anything happened.

His parents don't think he should stop me from talking to them, BUT at the same time they don't want to upset their son, so until he calms down from this rage they are keeping their distance.

In the meantime I really think it's time for me to head out of this village and look for a friendlier place for me and my kids to live in.

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#22 of 29 Old 05-11-2013, 07:37 AM
 
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How are you doing, anon_abroad?

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#23 of 29 Old 05-15-2013, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'll let you know tomorrow. I've received a notice for a lawyer's letter from ex and am picking it up tomorrow from post office! Heaven only knows what he wants: I will be damned if it's money...if its no contact, well, that's already been done.

As I write this I feel a bit nervous about the reality of whatever is waiting for me in terms of a legal battle, uhg......but I also feel that I won't let myself be bullied by someone who is no longer a part of my or my children's lives and who has started another family. What could he possibly want? It's beyond me.

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#24 of 29 Old 05-15-2013, 11:52 PM
 
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hug2.gif Waiting is so hard.  Don't feel obliged to share if you're too busy or uncomfortable.  Just wanted to check in.

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#25 of 29 Old 05-16-2013, 12:59 PM
 
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xo Thinking of you.
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#26 of 29 Old 05-16-2013, 10:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The lawyer's letter says he wants to stop paying child support, which he already stopped doing 3 months ago, and it was a very small sum anyway.... so he just wants to make it official. There's also something about a piece of land we own together. Oh man, so here starts the 'battle'. I don't want to fight over the measly crumbs he was due to pay for the kids, but I do want to stand up to this man who is simply copping out of every single responsibility he has towards these kids, and although the easiest thing to do would be say 'fine, just f**** off' I'm not going to do that. He stopped seeing the kids 6 weeks ago and stopped paying any child support 3 months ago, his family (the grandparents) have taken no interest (my side of the family lives on a different continent), and we're only separated since September! This was just the beginning!

Pray for me that I will be able to stand up for myself, and the kids, with solid facts and agruments, and that I will not feel scared by him and just let him have his way just for the sake of avoiding confrontation and legal fees.

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#27 of 29 Old 05-16-2013, 11:40 PM
 
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I am so glad you got away from him. I sure wish you had family nearby to help and to support you. I don't have anything in way of advice, but I just wanted to write before heading to bed to say that I'm thinking of you and sending you strength.

 

We have been separated for about the same length of time and I couldn't imagine dealing with all that you're dealing with - and my X is pretty awful. There simply doesn't seem to be any decency at all in your X. Good for you for leaving. Seriously!

 

xo

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#28 of 29 Old 07-11-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So here I am 3 months after my original post, and my ex maintains his position of 1) not seeing the kids (except for brief, sporadic phone calls and two visits, and bumping into him in town once!), and 2) not paying child support (for a total of 5 going on 6 months). As I still don't know what actually triggered this shut-down on his behalf, because two episodes occurred on the same day: i.e. he told my (our) kids he was expecting a new baby and they reacted badly, and that I had been on a date with a man, which somehow infuriated him. Though neither justify cutting kids and child support, right? (might I add the child support is very low, very feasible)

Anyway, the lawyer says I have 2 options, and what it boils down to is what I choose to truly be the issue here: making him be a parent, or asking for child support.

Either I attempt to take him to court to pay the last five months of child support, or I actually report him for failing to perform his fatherly duties (which is penal!!! not civil!), which leads to either a large fine or jail time (although jail time is rare, it will most likely be a large fine).

Third option: take the high road and let him be THAT GUY that lost touch with his kids.....a douche bag.

Or is it really the high road? Am I just being a doormat?

I'm used to not having any money, I don't really consider child support an issue. Should I pursue it? Is that materialistic?

As he is very irrational and vindictive, what can I expect as a reaction to either option? Is it worth his wrath? That would help me decide how to proceed.

Hugs!

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#29 of 29 Old 07-11-2013, 04:54 PM
 
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I've never been in this situation, but I have been with a controlling man before. He seems like he will do anything to make you miserable...and I wouldn't put it past him to hurt you or your children or try to take them out of the country.

 

If you let him get away with not paying support, it's still not over. He will still be around. He will come looking for you and your daughters one day, especially when his crazy new girlfriend leaves him. (By the way, crazy new girlfriend will be in your situation in a couple of years....just watch).

 

Since he has no money, pursuing the child support won't get you anywhere, except it will make him and his crazy new girlfriend even more angry. Can you invite them to a mediation and explain that it will be tedious for both of you to go through the courts to demand child support and that he could possibly end up in jail...and perhaps he can just agree to supervised visits and you will drop the whole thing? At least both attorneys will be there and everything will be documented so if something bad goes down, you have some records.

 

Make sure you record phone calls from now on too, if you are allowed to record without his knowledge. Keep the letter from the ex, and the names of the police you spoke to, etc. 

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