Is it worth ex getting a record to make him pay child support? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 32 Old 08-02-2013, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My ex stopped paying child support six months ago, and stopped visits with the kids about 4 months ago. It seems the only way to go is to report him, but this would mean he would have a criminal record. This seems extreme, but he's not budging. Is this the way to go? Or would you never ever do that to the father of your children?

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#2 of 32 Old 08-02-2013, 07:55 AM
 
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The child support is for your children. I would do it in a heart beat, and I did when I was in your spot. I know it's difficult but this is money your children need, and even if you make ten grand a month, it is still their fathers legal, moral, ethical obligation to pay child support.

 

Child support and family time (in most states) are not tied together. I know this is a really tough decision. Good luck~!
 

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#3 of 32 Old 08-02-2013, 08:57 AM
 
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I wouldn't even look at it as something that YOU are doing to him, but something that HE HIMSELF is choosing by way of his actions (or inaction, really) He chose to stop paying the child support that he is legally obligated to pay. That was his choice, and the consequences (criminal record, for example) are totally his responsibly. By reporting him you are simply taking care of your children, like a good mother should.

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#4 of 32 Old 08-02-2013, 11:42 AM
 
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Yeah, I would hold him accountable. He is doing this to his own kids and the law is in place to deal with it.


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#5 of 32 Old 08-04-2013, 03:38 PM
 
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I wouldn't even look at it as something that YOU are doing to him, but something that HE HIMSELF is choosing by way of his actions (or inaction, really) He chose to stop paying the child support that he is legally obligated to pay. That was his choice, and the consequences (criminal record, for example) are totally his responsibly.

This!  You are not at all responsible for what happens as a result of his decisions.

 

The thing that I would consider before taking him to court for child support are:

1.  How positive an influence is he/could he be in the kids' lives?  If you would like him to see them more and are prepared for him to open the custody battle can of worms, then I would file straight away.  

2.  How likely is it that he will respond with anger/difficult behaviours?  And are you prepared to deal with them?

3..  How much money is it (and don't feel you need to answer this)?  If it's just a few hundred per month I would totally blow it off and find another way to make up the shortfall....just so I would know that any attempts x makes to see the kids are genuine, and not motivated by money.  But if it's enough to make a big difference in your living standard for things that in the big picture are more important (e.g. could be the difference between living in a bad neighbourhood vs. one that's more family oriented, etc.) then I would file.  I would still plan to live and budget as though he is not paying though.  Then just put that extra money away for education savings (for you or the kids).

4.  Would there be any advantage for you for him to surrender his parental rights?  e.g. make it easier for you to move to a place where you have better supports, eg. family, friends, etc. 

 

Is he actually aware that he could face a criminal record for non payment?  If so, he must really think he can control you if he is being so difficult....and I would wonder about sociopathic traits too (feeling above the law)...

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#6 of 32 Old 08-04-2013, 10:25 PM
 
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I agree with all the above.

First of all this is why you went to court. They themselves have rules and legal ramifications knowing things like this will happen.
A lot of woman don't want to fight (believe me I don't).
My divorce isn't final and he hasn't paid me a Penney (not going through general attorney) but I know my lawyer wants to have one final court date for all if his violations and to be divorced (fingers crossed). But I know what's coming to him and its not at all my intention. I look at it this way, people make decisions that have postie and negative consequences. You can't control what he does and doesn't do. This is why you seemed legal advise and filed through the courts. Don't feel this way. It's between him and the courts.
Follow the order just as you would want him too. Be the responsible one, you will be showing your kids later on that you want what's fair and that you follow rules. Your also showing them to be responsible for your own actions..
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#7 of 32 Old 08-07-2013, 03:48 PM
 
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I agree with everyone's opinion on this. You are not doing anything to him. He is responsible to your children as he is their father. It is unfortunate that he has not visited with them for 4 months, but, that does not excuse his responsibilities. In my opinion you must do this for your children. If you have a court order for child support - contact your local child support enforcement unit. I would file with their office and they should keep track and follow up - even garnish his wages if they have to.

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#8 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 05:26 AM
 
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I am in this exact same situation. He has only paid a bit less than half these last 6 months. I am a Batista, so poor and need the.extra.few hundred a month. My X was abusive and I believe I fear the consequences of filing against him. I try to make the decision, and then take no action. I had to quit my second job to help my dad while he has cancer treatment...before I could let it slide but not so any more. He is a week and a half late right now...sigh.
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#9 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 05:55 PM
 
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Anon,

can you somehow give him a deadline?  "If you don't begin paying child support by the 1st of September I will file charges against you on the 2nd of September and you will have a criminal record for the next 5 years."  And have all documentation in place to do so - possibly even showing him the filled out forms that you will file.  And no further discussion.  Except to say that you are willing to accept 300 or whatever euro more per month in order for him to catch up for the last 6 months.  Do not let him get away with this.

 

Or you just go ahead and file.  If he's getting away with it he will continue to do so and you and the kids suffer.  That is not correct but when someone is behaving incorrectly and they are treated the same as before they will continue to misbehave.  You aren't giving him any incentive to pay.  His incentive could just be not wanting that record?  ?? maybe?  Just some ideas.  (that all lead you to filing  FOR SURE if non-payment continues).

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#10 of 32 Old 08-12-2013, 12:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So I sent him a lawyer's letter last week asking him to: start visitation with the kids again (which he DID over the weekend), and to pay half of the over-standing amount by the 10th (which happened to be a Saturday). Next Monday, if no payment is made, I will go back to the lawyer to proceed with a 'forced' payment of the ENTIRE sum (I didn't give warning of this in the letter). Unfortunately it can't be garnished from his wages because he is self-employed, and therefore no pay cheque to garnish from.

The 'forced' payment process takes 11 days.

If I fail to get any money from a forced payment (i.e. no money in his account), I will officially report him.

Unfortunately by reporting him I apparantly won't solve the money issues, he'll just be punished by law.

AND in the eyes of the law I am apparently almost in the wrong by now because I have let too many months go by and it appears I am not in dire need of the child support angry.gif.

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#11 of 32 Old 08-13-2013, 08:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by anon_abroad View Post

AND in the eyes of the law I am apparently almost in the wrong by now because I have let too many months go by and it appears I am not in dire need of the child support angry.gif.

Anon - sent you a pm on the subject of Italian men and their mothers.  It's short but I'm busy and have more to say.  I don't want to post in the non private forum.  try to get into the lounge.  

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#12 of 32 Old 08-14-2013, 03:52 PM
 
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He's shirking his responsibility to support his kids.  Report him. He will either pay up or face the consequences of his actions.  It's called being an adult. 

 

FYI, you would not be doing it to him.  That implies that he has not choice in the matter.  When the choice not to pay is all on him.  In other words, he's doing it to himself. 

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#13 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 12:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I ended up suing ex for what are now 8 months of no child support, BUT irony of the situation, I filed in early August and he still hasn't received the papers, that's how slow the system is... PLUS, in doing so my lawyer's realised that a mistake had been made at the time of the separation hearing, and the CS is much lower than what was agreed, it was kept at the 'unofficial' amount that we had established over the months prior to the legal separation.

Anyhow, what's done is done.

I am now waiting for him the receive the papers (it is just a civil proceeding, NOT penal), and then go into a rage. :eyesroll

In the meantime I really need some advice. Cut a long story short, he and his girlfriend told our two daughters that she was pregnant in the first week of April. My kids cried at the news, and XH and GF were so offended they refused to see the children for 9 weeks. Well, actually after nine weeks XH started seeing them again, for a couple of hours every week, they only saw GF first the first time last week, for lunch, and she is now 8 months along with the pregnancy. The girls only found out last week that the baby is due in 1 month and is a boy.

I am now getting excited about my girls having a brother, I have a soft spot for babies! BUT I don't know how to even begin having a relationship with XH and GF after all of their horrific behaviour. I don't want in any way to condone what they have done, to be kind to people who have been hurtful to my kids, to an XH who conveniently stopped paying any CS the very month he found out his GF was expecting.... but I would like to have a relationship with my daughters' brother....

What do I do? How do I approach these people with being a doormat AGAIN?  I mean, I don't receive CS, they were terrible to my kids for a period of 6-7 months, they blame me for everything that is wrong in their lives (bad job situation, not-ideal housing situation, general unhappiness....) EVEN THOUGH WE DON'T EVEN SPEAK OR HAVE ANY FORM OF CONTACT, SERIOUSLY.

But somehow I need to have a rapport with them...please tell me how, and in what terms.

Or is it simply a matter of giving up on the idea of having my daughters' brother in 'our' lives (like when he's older have him over to our house, and not just limit their time together to their dad's house)?

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#14 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 08:39 AM
 
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Honestly, if they are that toxic, I wouldn't bother. It will probably just end up hurting you or the kids at some point.   It's not your responsibility to initiate the relationship, but if they appear willing to be CONSISTENT with kindness and if they want the relationship, then you might go along with it and foster a relationship that way (following whatever court orders you have).  A father who acts like a child and rejects his child over crying and rejects them for weeks afterwards is emotionally abusive, and that's a trait that won't change over time, imho.  

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#15 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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I'd keep fighting for the kid's father to step-up and be in their lives but this baby is THEIR brother, and not connected to you in any way. It's great for them if their parents can have a peaceful relationship in general, not only so you can get in on some extra baby cuddles, though I totally get that desire ;-)


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#16 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 09:33 AM
 
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I would not approach them about the baby, it has nothing to do with you and you should have no expectation of a relationship with it. I would point out one time on a letter that the girls value their relationship with him and you are happy he is doing the right thing by making efforts to be involved in their life but that his spotty visitation is hurtful to his children, that his reaction to the kids normal emotions was immature, and that you expect that he will man up and protect his children's emotional well-being in the future by being understanding about their very justified feelings of abandonment and consistent. Maybe add that you understand that he and his gf felt hurt by the children not being as excited as they are about the baby and understanding that they didn't know how to react to that but moving forward you hope he does a better job dealing with unexpected behavior from all of his children. I would end by reiterating how happy you are to see your kids have an involved father again. I wouldn't mention the gf beyond that and I would keep it focused on him not them because their relationship is with him.
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#17 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 09:34 AM
 
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I agree with the prior posters. What your ex did to your girls was disgusting. Both stopping the child support just because he's having another baby and then cutting contact as a childish "punishment" for not giving the right response to that news. It's completely unacceptable to withhold contact or emotional support from a child as punishment for anything, especially something that's it's completely understandable they'd be upset by.

 

His actions are a huge red flag that he's going to neglect your daughters once their child arrives. And that was before you started legally going after him for child support. You need to stop focusing on this child that isn't related to you and focus on steeling yourself to get your daughters through what promises to be a very difficult time. Based on his GF's actions towards your daughters, I find it incredibly hard to believe that she'd be okay with you in her son's life to the degree you seem to want to be, especially when the child is a baby. Trying to force your way in may only make her more resentful of you and make the situation even worse for your daughters. Bending over backwards to appease people who hurt your daughters just to see their half-brother will be sending the wrong message.

 

 

 

If your ex gets his act together and starts being a good father- your daughters will develop a relationship with their brother. They'll likely develop a relationship with him either way, unless he cuts out visitation again or his GF refuses to let your daughters see the baby. It's very possible that their brother will want to see them while they're at your house, and you'll be able to have him over for visits then. It would not be surprising if you'll develop a relationship with their half-brother. But that shouldn't be a priority for you right now, it's something you should let happen.


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#18 of 32 Old 10-20-2013, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Good advice mamas! I'll see if he stays consistent with the girls, that's all that matters. So far the girls enjoy their time with their dad again, they all stay at the grandparent's so that they don't see the GF (which is the part I don't get, but anyway, I doesn't matter and it has nothing to do with me). I have a feeling this may continue until the baby is born...and then?

So I'll just continue pursuing time for the kids with their dad, try and get some CS, and over the months and coming years see if he becomes more reliable.

XH sometimes mentions to the kids that they are thinking about moving to GF's country of origin, but who knows. It may very well happen after the baby is born. It's tough guessing what's going on with them. So yes, all I can do is look out for my girls and see how things develop over the next months.

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#19 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 10:51 AM
 
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If it is super cheap to live where she comes from it might be appealing to them both.

It is so unacceptable to break off contact with kids over something so normal as being upset over a new pregnancy.
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#20 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I got news back from lawyers - I will not be getting any CS.

XH is self-employed and here that means there is no paycheck to take 'enforced' payments from, and XH refused to pay voluntarily.

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#21 of 32 Old 10-21-2013, 01:06 PM
 
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Can he have his license taken. Here they take any license issued by the state away and that can include business licenses.
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#22 of 32 Old 10-24-2013, 02:27 PM
 
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What would an "enforced" payment be other than wage garnshing?  It sounds like the same thing, to me, but can't you file to get a legal judgement against him?  Being self-employed shouldn't mean that he gets off from his responsibility, there must be some way to get him to pay.

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#23 of 32 Old 10-24-2013, 04:26 PM
 
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Someone I rented a house from once illegally kept my deposit. I took her to court and got an order that the police could execute to get the money back.
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#24 of 32 Old 10-24-2013, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Since he is self-employed he doesn't have a paycheck, and therefore there is nothing to garnish from. So my lawyers asked his bank to take the sum out of his account directly (I'm just saying, it is a small, sum just three digits), but the sum was not available in the account. That's as far as it can be taken through civil law. The next step would be a penal case, but it doesn't getme CS, it's just a punishment for shirking parental duties.

I have no idea what his money situation is, it's all very unclear. Some clues tell me he could very well pay the amount, other clues make me think he can't BUT, A) that's not MY PROBLEM, and B) MAYBE HE SHOULD GET A NEW JOB if he isn't making any money.

I would just ignore him, but I have two pre-teens here, who are half his, and the whole thing is just wrong.

 

p.s. All I can hope is that he changes jobs in the future, and becomes an employee, THEN I can garnish.

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#25 of 32 Old 01-09-2014, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm still seething with anger... I can't make ends meet without a minor amount of child support from ex. He is so arrogant when I address the issue, he literally just shrugs his shoulders and says he doesn't have any money. He must know that I don't have the money to take him to court, and I don't qualify for pro-bono, so he's just riding on it.

So, what can I do OUTSIDE of the courts to get some money from him? I'm literally asking for 100 Euro per child per month at this point...and not getting it.

I'm thinking about writing a letter to his parents and sister, with a copy of our separation agreement, pointing out that he stopped paying child support 11 months ago (1 year in Feb.), and if they would speak to him about paying. Good idea, bad idea? Any experience with doing something like this?

The thing is I have no money to take any other type of action. I have been advised to pay a private investigator to find out his employment / money situation (namely, if he IS employed, I can garnish from this wages), but that's a service I would have to pay for and can't. Has anyone ever tried that?

Other option: should I look into some non-profit organisations that help people like me? I wonder of there are any in Italy...I'll have to make time to look into it.

Any suggestions?

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#26 of 32 Old 01-10-2014, 05:45 AM
 
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Can you take him to court without a lawyer? Does the state have a service that enforces child support? Where I live it is possible to go to court without a lawyer, hard but possible. The state is also able to look up employment with the social security number and garnish wages that way.

Have you tried Googling him to see if he pops up in conjunction with a company?
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#27 of 32 Old 01-10-2014, 06:18 AM
 
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Some States have 75% court rates for no lawyer.
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#28 of 32 Old 01-11-2014, 07:21 PM
 
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You are not doing it to him, he's doing it to himself. Report him for his choice not to follow a court order and do not take responsibility for his actions.
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#29 of 32 Old 01-11-2014, 10:03 PM
 
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Can he have his license taken. Here they take any license issued by the state away and that can include business licenses.


THIS.

In Oregon at least, if they stop CS payments the state takes whatever they can... removing passport travel; taking their drivers and business licenses; anything they can get control on. Doesn't sound like that option is happening in Italy, but I would make sure.

 

My XP doesn't pay, but every 3 months the state threatens to take his license and his family makes a payment on his behalf to stop that seizure. And just from my experience, his family is furious WITH ME for asking for CS. They feel exactly the way XP does, that he shouldn't be required to pay and that enforcement is just another dagger at them personally. So I would question first your relationship with his family before asking them for support. Sounds messy and could be even more problematic if you're wanting to continue a relationship with them for your children. But that's just my experience.

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#30 of 32 Old 01-12-2014, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm quite sure they don't revoke licenses here, otherwise I would have been advised to do go ahead in that sense. Goodmom2008 is right, but I can't report him without having the money to pursue the case. Here, if I file a report I also have to follow-through with the whole case proceedings. I already went that route, but was called to say I don't qualify for pro-bono, so I had to call it all off. A friend told me to go to social services, and ask them to call him and put pressure on him. She said they did that with her ex. I'm going to try this.

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