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#1 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My 2 1/2 year old son gets sick EVERY SINGLE TIME he has visitation with his father.  Mind you, visitation is supervised, 2 hours, every 6-8 weeks at this point.  But... for the 6TH TIME IN A ROW (last visitation was last Thursday), my son was out of sorts and feverish and now sick, for almost a week after visitation.  Right after visitation, my son gets very aggressive and defiant and completely off the wall, and then a couple days later, he gets sick.  EVERY TIME.  We travel an hour and a half by car and the supervisor is someone I know and trust, and visitation is in a public place (library), but my son comes home and is sick 1-2 days after.  EVERY SINGLE TIME.  His father is a monster (history of abuse towards me and my older son, never touched the baby, baby never witnessed anything after two months old), but the supervised visitations go pretty uneventful, I'm told, nothing negative is said about me, although his father does pump up his ego telling my son he's "just like him" and how "he's awesome because he's Greek" (once, he did slip and make a reference along the lines of "too bad you're only half Greek" to my son, but to my knowledge, that was the only time, and we do have a very good supervisor who nipped that in the bud) and I don't let anyone talk negatively about my son's father in any situation where he might overhear, so I don't think it's that.  My son is okay with strangers, as his father somewhat is, but he knows, trusts, and loves the supervisor, so it's not like he's thrown in with complete strangers.  I do get stressed and nervous about leaving my son with this monster, but I hide it very well and when I drop my son off, I kiss him, don't linger, tell him, "have fun", pretend I'm happy he's having visitation, etc, so I don't think my son is picking up on my stress.  Especially not enough to make himself SICK.

 

Has anyone ever had a situation where their child is getting sick after every visitation and you can't figure out why?  It's not something I can bring up in court without sounding like a psycho, but if there's something I can do to ease things for my son, I wish I knew.


I pray for the day Family Court recognizes that CHILDREN have rights, parents only have PRIVILEGES.  Only then, will I know my child is safe.
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#2 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 08:54 PM
 
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Stress lowers the immune systems ability to fight. It is not unreasonable to make that link. I would document it and get a third party witness to as well, in case it might be useful later. I am so sorry you are in such a hard position.
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#3 of 14 Old 10-16-2013, 09:57 PM
 
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Is visitation at the same location every week? Is there a possible allergen or other environmental trigger making him ill at the location?


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#4 of 14 Old 10-17-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Springshowers View Post

Stress lowers the immune systems ability to fight. It is not unreasonable to make that link. I would document it and get a third party witness to as well, in case it might be useful later. I am so sorry you are in such a hard position.

 

I've considered that, but we do make it as stress-free as possible.  I have family as a third-party witness, but do you mean pediatrician?

 

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Is visitation at the same location every week? Is there a possible allergen or other environmental trigger making him ill at the location?

 

It's in a children's library, about an hour and a half away.  Before that, it was in a visitation center in another state, 2 1/2 hour away.  My son's not in daycare, but I do bring him to 2-3 playgroups in my home town, plus other activities, such as our home town's children's library and playgrounds, etc, and he rarely gets sick- maybe twice a year- under non-visitation situations.  He has no allergies that we know of.  His father BATHES in cologne, but not the same kind every time, and I wouldn't think that would give him a fever for almost a week.  (My fiance uses cologne, not as much, and there's never been a problem with irritation or allergies with my son there.)


I pray for the day Family Court recognizes that CHILDREN have rights, parents only have PRIVILEGES.  Only then, will I know my child is safe.
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#5 of 14 Old 10-17-2013, 05:11 PM
 
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Do you ever go on long drives other than for that? An hour and a half is a long time to be in the car, that may be what he finds stressful?


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#6 of 14 Old 10-17-2013, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Once in a while we go on long drives- more like an hour or slightly moreso- but I can't recall him getting sick after any of those.


I pray for the day Family Court recognizes that CHILDREN have rights, parents only have PRIVILEGES.  Only then, will I know my child is safe.
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#7 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 04:51 PM
 
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Is it possible that his older brother told him what happened? Or expresses his dislike for their dad? Even if your older son knows not to say anything about what happened, it's hard for small children to hide their feelings the way adults can, so your younger son may have picked up on it. It might be difficult on your younger son if he feels good about seeing his dad, or wants to feel good about it because the guy is his dad- but knows that his older brother doesn't like him.

 

Depending on what he saw before he was 2 months old, he honestly may still have imprinted negative feelings towards his dad- even if he doesn't have the proper memories of why. I haven't done much research into this, I'm no expert, but I do know that things that happen to newborns can effect them when they're older even if they don't have conscious memories of why. If that is the case, there's not much you can do.

 

The delay before he gets sick makes me think that it's not an allergen thing- it's likely either stress or that your ex is just constantly exposing him to new germs. I have no idea how to handle it so that he can stop getting sick.

 

That's a really awful situation, I'm sorry that you're in it.


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#8 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sillysapling View Post
 

Is it possible that his older brother told him what happened? Or expresses his dislike for their dad? Even if your older son knows not to say anything about what happened, it's hard for small children to hide their feelings the way adults can, so your younger son may have picked up on it. It might be difficult on your younger son if he feels good about seeing his dad, or wants to feel good about it because the guy is his dad- but knows that his older brother doesn't like him.

 

Depending on what he saw before he was 2 months old, he honestly may still have imprinted negative feelings towards his dad- even if he doesn't have the proper memories of why. I haven't done much research into this, I'm no expert, but I do know that things that happen to newborns can effect them when they're older even if they don't have conscious memories of why. If that is the case, there's not much you can do.

 

The delay before he gets sick makes me think that it's not an allergen thing- it's likely either stress or that your ex is just constantly exposing him to new germs. I have no idea how to handle it so that he can stop getting sick.

 

That's a really awful situation, I'm sorry that you're in it.

 

 

My older son is 18, was 15-16 when he was exposed to my younger son's father, so I don't think there's ever any chance of him telling his little brother how things went down.  He's very protective of his little brother.

 

From birth to 2 months old, I let my little one's father come over for unofficial visitation for a couple hours once a week.  I thought it's keep him from filing for custody or unsupervised visitation... silly me.  He verbally cut me down during these visitations, but nothing physical- that happened before I was pregnant and before I knew I was pregnant.  The last two visitations before he didn't see him for a year while we were fighting over supervised visitation, when my son was 9 and 10 weeks old, he held onto the baby for the entire 4 1/2 hour visitations and refused to hand him back, even to nurse (think, barely 2 month old nursing baby, refused to be let fed for 4 1/2 hours, plus about a half an hour before his father got there, because "if he nurses, he'll prefer his Mother, so he's gonna take a bottle or nothing, and that bottle had better have formula in it, not breast milk, because breast milk comes from his Mother").  That's the only baby-related thing my younger son was exposed to, that and his father criticizing me about everything.  Maybe he does remember on a subconscious level (when he first started doing court ordered visitation, and for the first 8 months of it, from 13 months to 22 months, my son SCREAMED the entire 2 hour supervised visitation... every single time.  He only calmed down enough to not cry during the visitations when he was a little over 2, and now he's 2 3/4.  He's never liked visitation, but there's no clear-cut reason why that I can figure out- he's just never seemed to like his father.  (Yup, that's a slippery slope in court- his father already tried to claim I was "turing our son against him" when my son was 7 months old and hadn't seen him in 5 months.)


I pray for the day Family Court recognizes that CHILDREN have rights, parents only have PRIVILEGES.  Only then, will I know my child is safe.
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#9 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 08:22 PM
 
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Just a thought, I'm guessing your son gets fed while he's gone? Is he going to one of those fast food playlands? Those things are germ nightmares, we ended up in the ER 24 hours later EVERY time we went to one. They are not cleaned well at all and every sick kid in town visits. The library could not be cleaning the childrens area well either but a playland would make me wonder could be it.

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#10 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 08:58 PM
 
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I have no training, I'm not an expert. I would not be surprised if he has negative associations with the man because of that treatment. I know that a 2 month old won't starve to death in 4 hours or anything, but a 2 month old doesn't know that and being suddenly taken from both his primary caregiver and most familiar form of food (would he take the bottle during that time, or was he completely starved?) by a stranger does not create a positive association.

 

It's possible he was picking up on your stress for the earlier visits and then created a negative association by getting so worked up, but it really would not surprise me if your ex shot himself in the foot by being such a monster with the little visitation he got at 2 months.

 

(Again- I'm not an expert, that's just a guess. From your description, I'm not sure what else could be causing such a big problem. Unless it is like the PP suggested and your son's being taken to play places where he could be picking up diseases.)

 

I'm sorry that you have to deal with such a rough situation. I have no idea what you can do to help your son. :(


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#11 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 09:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just a thought, I'm guessing your son gets fed while he's gone? Is he going to one of those fast food playlands? Those things are germ nightmares, we ended up in the ER 24 hours later EVERY time we went to one. They are not cleaned well at all and every sick kid in town visits. The library could not be cleaning the childrens area well either but a playland would make me wonder could be it.

 

Actually, I've always made sure visitation is right after lunch and that my son is fed right before visitation.  Wish his father's, shall we say "excentricities" with feeding my son, I've found if safest to just make sure my son doesn't get hungry during visitation.  I do pack a drink and a snack in his backpack, plus, it's only two hours, so as far as I'm aware, 100% of my son's food and drink is from me.

 

I've considered the fact that it could be the library that's the problem, but three visits ago, we switched to the library and six visits ago, he started getting sick.  Before the library, it was a visitation center, so I'm not ruling that out.

 

Quote:

I have no training, I'm not an expert. I would not be surprised if he has negative associations with the man because of that treatment. I know that a 2 month old won't starve to death in 4 hours or anything, but a 2 month old doesn't know that and being suddenly taken from both his primary caregiver and most familiar form of food (would he take the bottle during that time, or was he completely starved?) by a stranger does not create a positive association.

 

It's possible he was picking up on your stress for the earlier visits and then created a negative association by getting so worked up, but it really would not surprise me if your ex shot himself in the foot by being such a monster with the little visitation he got at 2 months.

 

 

My son never did take a bottle.  When he was 1-2 months old, I did try to introduce him to a bottle, but he never took to it.  He'd go 4 1/2 hours not being "allowed" to eat, and he was the baby who wanted to nurse every hour on the hour.

 

It's possible my stress affected my son, and I've overanalized that myself probably more than I should, but I hope not.  I hate his father, I pity his father, I fear his father.  His father is a monster.  But, I've hid my feelings and reactions from my son with every ounce of strength I have (even smile at the monster when I drop off- GAG!) because I didn't want my son to feel the same way I feel about his father.  Imagine feeling the same way I feel about his father... and being forced to spend 2 hours at a time with him.  Being handed over to someone I felt that way about... by the one person I trusted and depended on most in my life.  That would be a living Hell for me.  I've hid my feelings about my son's father with everything I've got, because of that.  My son would be better off believing he's in a safe, happy place (again, GAG!) when he's at visitation, even if it's a lie and a prayer on my part, because, thanks to "Father's Rights", my son's rights don't matter and visitation will be there whether my son likes it or not for most of, if not all of, his childhood.


I pray for the day Family Court recognizes that CHILDREN have rights, parents only have PRIVILEGES.  Only then, will I know my child is safe.
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#12 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 09:41 PM
 
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Does your x smoke?  3rd hand smoke residue could lower immune function.  Lots of people have allergies to scents also, so there could be a reaction to the cologne.  

 

But my guess is that it's just plain poor hand hygeine on your x's part could be behind it.  He could be touching every sneezed on doorknob or tap and smearing it (without knowing it) all over his clothing, and then little one's hands/face get on the clothing.  Viruses live on surfaces for a long time.  I hope the visitation supervisor has him at least sanitize his hands.  

 

It sucks for you though to have to deal with a sick child afterwards.  

 

The father's right movement is just an extension of male entitlement moving into the courts. It makes me ill that a few bad apples (alienating moms) have been spoiling it for the rest of us who are victim to sociopaths.

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#13 of 14 Old 10-18-2013, 10:49 PM
 
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My son never did take a bottle.  When he was 1-2 months old, I did try to introduce him to a bottle, but he never took to it.  He'd go 4 1/2 hours not being "allowed" to eat, and he was the baby who wanted to nurse every hour on the hour.

 

It's possible my stress affected my son, and I've overanalized that myself probably more than I should, but I hope not.  I hate his father, I pity his father, I fear his father.  His father is a monster.  But, I've hid my feelings and reactions from my son with every ounce of strength I have (even smile at the monster when I drop off- GAG!) because I didn't want my son to feel the same way I feel about his father.  Imagine feeling the same way I feel about his father... and being forced to spend 2 hours at a time with him.  Being handed over to someone I felt that way about... by the one person I trusted and depended on most in my life.  That would be a living Hell for me.  I've hid my feelings about my son's father with everything I've got, because of that.  My son would be better off believing he's in a safe, happy place (again, GAG!) when he's at visitation, even if it's a lie and a prayer on my part, because, thanks to "Father's Rights", my son's rights don't matter and visitation will be there whether my son likes it or not for most of, if not all of, his childhood.

Doing that to a 2 month old is unconscionable. That must have been awful for him. Again- I have no idea whether or not that did have a lasting effect. Kids are very observant and it's definitely possible he picked up on your stress more than you realize, although I don't know if it'd be enough to cause those problems. You said it's happened the last 6 visits- have there only been 6 visits, or is there anything that may have happened 6 or 7 visits ago to cause this?

 

The suggestion another poster had about your ex just picking up germs definitely does seem possible as well. It's a little odd for him to get your child sick EVERY time, even over the summer- but stranger things have happened. Have you tried doing anything to boost your son's immune system before visits- increased vitamin c, echinacea, whatever? I don't know what's safe for a 2 year old.

 

That situation is just utterly disgusting. I agree with you that your son is, at least right now, better off believing the best of his father because you have no choice. I really hate the way the system works.

 

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The father's right movement is just an extension of male entitlement moving into the courts. It makes me ill that a few bad apples (alienating moms) have been spoiling it for the rest of us who are victim to sociopaths.

 

I disagree with this- part of the bad apples were abusive mothers who had no more of a right parenting a child than the abusive men.  It doesn't matter where the gender bias is, bias has no place in the law- yet it seems like so often these cases are decided based on the judge's or lawmaker's bias rather than on what is legitimately best for the family.

 

The OP's signature is right. Whether it's the mother or father does not matter, the rights of the CHILDREN need to be focused on over that of the adults. I don't care if it's the mother or the father who's abusive. Both are damaging to a child. A child should not be forced to spend time with a known abuser.


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#14 of 14 Old 10-19-2013, 10:25 AM
 
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I disagree with this- part of the bad apples were abusive mothers who had no more of a right parenting a child than the abusive men.  It doesn't matter where the gender bias is, bias has no place in the law- yet it seems like so often these cases are decided based on the judge's or lawmaker's bias rather than on what is legitimately best for the family.
Ok maybe it's an overgeneralization to say that father's rights movement is moving male entitlement into law courts.  There are of course legitimate reasons for fathers (and mothers) to have rights.  I don't doubt that there is lawmaker/judge bias.....and that's basically what I was getting at with this comment.  all it takes is one judge who is biased to bring his (or her) entitlement issues/biases into the courts, and make a decision that is actually harmful to the child involved.

I love the OP's signature.  Some places seem to be moving towards a "best interests of the child" being the only determinant of custody.  I think we have to get away from any 50/50 presumption in order to start addressing what is best for the kids.  We have to stop treating children like possessions that can be divided equally.
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