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Old 02-24-2002, 04:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, gals; what the heck do you think is up with so many women hooking up with screwed up men???????? Really! I cannot tell you how many good, kind, loving, generous (codependant???) women I know who hook up with jealous, possessive, insecure, angry, immature, communicatively handicapped baby-men!!

Were we all molested as children? Beaten by our parents, either physically, emotionally, psychologically or sexually? Was it the 80's??

I don't get it. Perhaps the "birds of a feather' saying is right on, and I am happening to meet all sorts of women who are a lot like me.

Anyhow, wondering what your opinions are. Is it just that sappy, left-wing, bleeding-heart liberals in general tend to be overly helpful, to the point of sacrificing themselves? Is it a lash-back from the age of feminism? The media? Are we victims of the psychological revolution where we think everything (and everyone) is fixable and we- the ultra-strong modern women- have the power to heal these men? I was certainly under the delusion of that power; I just read 3 years worth of journal entries filled with "oh he is having a hard time dealing with his issues; if I am patient and strong and nurturing and read self-help books and do 'relationship' exercises with him blah blah blah he'll be healed, he'll change, he'll grow up and eventually be happy, secure and strong enough to give ME some of that nurturing I so desire!"

Maybe it's the media! Yeah, that's it!

WHAT IS IT?????

Sincerely,

One tweaked womyn
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Old 02-24-2002, 09:55 PM
 
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god I don't know, I just don't know. I feel so foolish, so wet. I have no fight because he'as so angry so horrible at times. Draining my vitality like a vampire, thankyu alian mama for showing me (like I don't know) that it's my right to be free from domestic tyranny. Why do I love somebody who hates himself and why does somebody who is a professional community type worker treat me with such contempt, I'm sick of being bullied in my own home. I am having to leaver my own home because he won't, god I hate him sometimes, I'm done with staying for the children's sake, life is short I can't best him I haven't the energy. I want to be sweet and loving and forgiving anfd I have been for so long but he just sucks it up like I don't need anything back, no love, no support no respect, blahhh! sleep well, tomorrow's a new day MMx
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Old 02-25-2002, 01:30 PM
 
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marymary,
So sorry for your pain! I can relate. My ex and I are finally seperating (we have two young children). It has taken me so long and I have dragged it out unbearably long to do this. Still, I have questions. It's amazing what one can get used to! And for him to, he is not happy, says he was better/happier before our relationship. Somehow the wonderful things that brought us together are now all gone, and have turned sour. So sad..
We don't like each other to much right now. Not a good role model for the children. Better to leave now (I feel) than to prolong all this. It's just so scary. Single mom, etc... I don't know how much he will help out, energy-wise or monetarily. I am going for completing my education so that I can support myself and not be so dependent.

In regards to the question as to why we pick these men; Perhaps it has to do with the fact that our own dads did not model anything much better. I know that my mother was not happy either in her marriage. They had no communication, and she did not have much help parenting etc... The only difference was, that my dad was a good provider (at least something). My mother modeled for me when I was 16, that one can leave a relationship that is not healthy, because she left my dad finally. Now I know the feeling of remaining with someone for the 'sake of the kids'. It's all so challenging! Makes me question the whole notion of nuclear family. Still, that romantic fairy tale ideal remains in my dreams, of someday finding that one special man. Perhaps it is not a dream !

good luck to you! I hope you find the strength to do what's right for you!!!

Blessings
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Old 02-26-2002, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know for myself that having parents who had an uhappy marriage, being molested, physically and psychologically abused, raped and abandoned during parts of my teen years has seriously screwed me up.

I also know that to remain "screwed up" is to allow my past abusers to continue to have control over my life. I am the author of my own life story; my life NOW is what I make it, and therefore nobody but ME gets the credit (or the blame) for how my life is.

My 3.5 year relationship just ended, after a repetitive and predictable cycle of honeymoon/tension/explosion over and over- any many breakups, many vows to myself to honor myself and never be with him again. I am reading my journals from the last 3.5 years and am amazed how many breakups I have 'not remembered'- how many promises I made to myself and my children that I did not keep. It is very sobering to see what my history laid before me on paper. I am forced to acknowledge the depth of my...um....codependency? Lack of self-respect? Whatever it is that healthy women have that prevent them from getting hooked on unhealthy men, I haven't had it. I am now creating it within myself.

Luckily I had no children with this man. I have 2 boys from previous relationships- both with decent men (I couldn't handle healthy, I guess).

Sanna and Marymary- the change from a marriage to singledom is a huge shift- but a GOOD ONE!! I have been single before, for several years, one and off. After 14 years of parenting, most of it single or dating (not married), I can say with assurance that it is so much nicer to have a happy, healthy, harmonious home without a man, even parenting alone, than it is to be coparenting with a partner you, um, almost hate, or who treats you hatefully. Honestly I stayed in this relationship much longer than I wanted to just to be financially secure. Thankfully he put on his peak performance (in the negative sense) including physical violence, and we ended it.

My boys don't miss him. My 14yo's opinion was that I should have ended it long ago!! "About time, Mom!" My 8yo misses his stepsister but says that home is "much friendlier" w/o my ex.
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Old 02-27-2002, 11:24 AM
 
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alianmama,

I too feel distant from the 'healthy' relationship model. I am scared that I don't have the tools to pick out a healthy relationship next time (and I want to give myself time). For that reason I want to do some deep soul searching once I come down from this initial grieving and reintergration pain. Maybe I'll join a womens group, or some therapy (which I did alot of in my early twenties).

Thankyou for the supportive words regarding your experience of being a single parent versus being in an unhealthy relationship. One can forget how being alone/ doing it alone is really alright and do-able and freeing. I like being with myself, and I like being with the kids alone. I find that (except when I am stressed and overtired), that I appreciate and give my children so much more of myself. Because I am more balanced and have more energy that isn't being drained from an unhealthy relationship, I can be more present. Strange how easy it is to forget all this. That pit that one can get into with another and like I said, how one can get used to it (so sad and sick!).

I can relate to the cycle you spoke of (honeymoon-indifference-then the pit). We did that cycle too for several years. And I too looked recently through my journal and saw so much of that pattern. It made me really sad. And especially now, I grieve for my kids, for what they have inherited, the cellular memories they will carry regarding relationships, etc..

As I am still in process of seperating physically (he is moving next week), I cannot yet feel all that I am going to go through. Luckily he has been staying in a separate studio in the backyard where he paints (he's a artist). At least I haven't had to sleep with his energy around. That was really hard for awhile. I would wake up and just process in the middle of the night. And I would be exhausted from it.

The truth is that I don't hate him. I feel alot, even anger, but I also still can see some essential characteristics of the man I loved. Not enough to go through the cycle again, but maybe enough to someday heal and be freinds. This would especially be important for me because of the children. I don't want them to always feel this rift and pain and ugliness. They have had enough of that.

My heart goes out to you regarding your own childhood! I don't understand this world and the pain it inflicts. My mother went through a similar childhood, although her abuse came when she was younger. Funny, how I have inherited this pain of hers, and the victim cycle continued. I would like to put an end to that! You seem like an incredibly strong woman who knows what she wants and doesn't want!

Blessings to you and all of us on the journey.
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Old 02-28-2002, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sanna-
I'm glad you don't hate him. I don't hate my ex, either. I know he's just a human being, doing his best. Innocently evil. He simply is who he is, and I'll never know if he truly changes.

Recently read an article on forgiveness; to hang on to hate just continues to give the abuser power over you, it keeps you connected, attached to the story of abuse, to being a victim. I had a lot to forgive and let go- and what a weight is lifted! The author of the article stated that people are afraid that the value of their story will be decreased if they forgive; in fact, it is not: Whatever heinous thing happened remains heinous, the story is still yours. It just doesn't rule you anymore.

Funny, my ex is an artist, too.

Funny, not ha ha, that you inherited your mothers experience. I hope I don't pass my crap onto my boys. I'm sure they've been affected....now we'll just see HOW.

I am just blissed out on being alone. I've have always jumped into some kind of relationship- at least dating and fooling around- within weeks of becoming single. Now, finally, I have grown up enough that I know I must be man/relationship-free, to work on the most important project: ME. When I'm healthy, I trust that other things ( including a healthy relatioship) will fall into place.

Blessings on you during this transition, sanna- it sounds like it is happening in stages so it won't be so abrupt. Take care of YOU.

S
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Old 02-28-2002, 07:53 PM
 
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alianmama,

i feel a kindred spirit with you! Thanks for the well-wishes and understanding. Sounds like a great idea (being solo and strong). Healthy relationship can only come out of that strength and balance, I think.

ps; Are you close to Grass Valley, Ca. (I may move there..).
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Old 03-03-2002, 02:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Sanna-
I live about 30 minutes from Grass Valley. I love it here! GV and Nevada City and where I live are all beautiful places. Gold Run in particular is pretty isolated- that fact is magnified these days...

Today is the 4 week aniversary of my breakup. Not sad about it at all; but definitely feeling the sometime-heaviness of change. I have no kids for 4 days every other weekendl; I always loved the time off of parenting, but usually had my SO around for couple time. I guess I'm in an adjustment period right now: Alone for 4 days. Out at the end of a rural road, next to a large canyon that leads to a river...lions, tigers and bears! Oh my! Just me and my two dogs. And 6 chickens. And one cat. And the bare-root fruit trees I have to dig holes in this rocky/clay soil for tomorrow.

It's wierd not having to think about another person- no eggshells to walk on, no guessing what their state of mind is, no figuring out the best way to say something that is on my mind and hoping it doesn't trigger the temper, no conflict over my boys, no reglecting my self, my life in a myriad of ways in order to mollify an unreasonable man, no more trying to fulfill the bottomless pit of need for attention...WHEW! It's so great to remind myself what I no longer have!

And funny, I thought I'd miss massages...all those stressful lumps in my muscles-- well, I no longer have them. ?????

Looking at my above list makes me realize again how important is is to be alone for a good chunk of time: If I got into a relationship right now, I'd behave in all the wrong ways- I've got some deeply ingrained habits that need to be outgrown. It figures it would take me until 34 to finally, really understand the value and need for being single for a significant amount of time. I don't even want to date. I'd rather be home reading or gardening or running with my dogs in the canyon.

One of these days my urge for sex will rear it's head, right? That fabled peak in my 30's???

Be well, Sanna, and live your truth. I'm finding it to be quite an adventure. Remember all the energy, the glee, the fascination of discovering your man? I remember how much effort I put into 'figuring him out'-- now it's time to turn all that effort onto myself.

It's wierd, different, and very, very good.

Blessings,

Perhaps see you? In Grass Valley? Sure would be great to know another Mothering mom (and kindred spirit at that) here!

S
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Old 03-03-2002, 01:25 PM
 
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alianmama,

You sound great. I like the way you put words together. What I wouldn't give for some alone time! I haven't had more than half a day in five years! I figure this summer when my daughter is 3 is a good time for a few days retreat.

I wonder how you ended up all the way out in the boondocks? Although it sounds romantic and beautiful. Where do your sons go during those four days (dad?). Where do they go to school?

Have fun planting those trees. If I wasn't thinking of moving, I would be out gardening today too, it's going to be a pretty day.

Blessings, and maybe see you someday
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Old 03-04-2002, 02:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sanna-
I DID have fun planting those trees. And a friend came over and helped me- it must be nice having muscles...

I have a unique situation up here in the mountains.

To backtrack: I had my first son at 19 with a guy named Mike. Never married. We split pretty quickly and he kinda came around when ds1 was around 8 or so, then really became an involved dad when ds1 was about 11 or 12. Ds1 is 14 now.

When ds1 was 5, I married a very nice guy named Will, and had ds2. Nice as he was, he wasn't too into working on a job or on the relationship, so I had a brief fling and we split up.

Fastforward to summer 2000. Chatting with Will & his SO, who had a house (inherited from his mom) up in Dutch Flat. They were relating the enjoyment they get from their trips up there. I asked why they didn't move & they said because of custody of ds2, didn't want to screw up his life. Funny, I'd resigned myself to staying in San Jose for the same reason. So I say "why don't we all move- I want the heck outta the city!!" so we all thought about it: Mike & SO, Will & SO, and me & SO(ex now). My then-SO and I went up one weekend, contacted the realtor Will recommended, this house & property had just come on the market- I fell in love at first sight, we made an offer, it was accepted.

So in July, all six of us moved up here. I to Gold Run, Will to Dutch Flat, (10 min drive) and Mike to Auburn (25 min drive). Yes- totally amazing! I am so blessed. They are both excellent dads.
ds2 goes to a little country school in Dutch Flat; Will's SO teaches there. Ds1 goes to Colfax High; takes the bus from my house & his dad drives him from his house. I teach at Placer HS in Auburn. We all get together occasionally for sushi parties or to hang out. Pretty nice setup.

So custody: Each boy spends alternating weeks w/either parent. But their schedules are offset; ds1 is home starting tuesdays, and ds2 is home starting fridays. This is due to ds1's work schedule, and I hated it but it's okay now- I get 3 days w/ds1 before ds2 joins us, they're together 4 days, then I get ds2 for 3 days. It hasn't affected their brotherly relationship, oddly enough. They seem as close as ever. SOOOooo- that's how I get 4 days of solitude every other weekend. I love it.

Well off to write a report

Blessings & I do hope to see you some day! Let me know if you'd like me to get you some local info.
S
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Old 03-05-2002, 01:22 PM
 
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Thanks alianmama, for the offer of info, I just may well take you up on it!

Sounds like you have made a gypsy soup with all your life choices, and now you are simmering just fine..

Write more soon.
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Old 03-19-2002, 02:11 AM
 
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Having watched my kid sister marry a loser-jerk, and upon finally getting away from him (with her daughter, as her ex didn't care about custody), found another jerk, who lost rights to his biokid(s) because he's an idiot. Now, my niece calls him "daddy" with my sister encouraging it, and they plan to marry as soon as my sis's divorce is final. It's breaking my heart to see my sister dragging that little girl back down into the same trap. I have little sympathy for my sister on this second go-round, it's her life, but it pisses me off to see her dragging that little girl down with her.

breastfeeding, babywearing, homeschooling Heathen parent to my little Wanderer, 7 1/2 , and baby Elf-stone, 3/11!

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Old 03-19-2002, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I see your point, Raven. I'm glad that my boys have good, involved and loving dads; that way I can hope that the fact that my recent ex-SO's lack of closeness with them didn't affect them. He was nice to them most of the time, but they had what I'd call a casual friendship rather than a relationship. I can understand your frustration with your sister's choices.

The sad thing about your sister is that she'll not change until she knows 100% and bone-deep that she (and her daughter) deserve better. Deserve the best, as a matter of fact. I always knew on one level that my SO was wrong for me- in hindsight, I needed that 3 1/2 year long lesson to finally GET IT. Luckily I got it without things becoming really ugly and violent.

My sister had the same problems; worse, in fact, than I. Years ago she dated a man who became sickeningly invasive; breaking into her bedroom at night to 'be' with her etc. She got a restraining order against him. Now, she was always a smart, go-getter, successful in the finance industry. (I; college graduate and teacher). Then she moved to Colorado. A couple months later I get a call from her; she's pregnant but doesn't want to tell me who the father is. It ends up to be him- restraining order man. He lies and cheats on her during her pregnancy; she kicks him out then gets back together. This goes on. I went to CO to be there for her breech homebirth (which was amazing and perfect) and he was an asshole from hell. Soon I hear she's thinking of getting pregnant again; she rationales that she wants her kids to have the same dad, unlike mine (who have great dads!). Of course I warn her against this and point out that my boys have different dads but they're GOOD dads and we all get along. During this time I was in MY crappy relationship w/S) of 3 1/2 years, getting advice from sis to get out of it! Whew!

Such clarity of vision and such support of what's right- as long as it's for someone else's relationship.

I have another friend who is still in a realtionship that paralleled my last one. We started our relationships at the same time; she's still in it. Interestingly, she was abused more than I was as a child. There seems to be a correlation between what kind and how much and how severe the abuse was, and how much abuse you invite into your life into as an adult.

I am so very, very happy to say that that is over for me. I hope your sister "gets it" soon- while she's still young and healthy enough to live her life fully.

I have been single for almost 2 months now. I am very happy being alone, and planned on being alone for quite some time- a year or so, perhaps. I thought about what kind of person I am, what kind of person I want to be, what kind of person I want to have as a partner eventually...thinking eventually would be down the road a ways. Well, surprise- at the time in my life when I'm most happy and content to be alone and am not searching for someone- someone showed up and has been 'courting' me very sweetly and romantically. And fits all my criteria! Not sure what to do with it right now, but am blissed out at being treated so respectfully, kindly and lovingly.

i am simply determined to be smart enough to chose the right path this time and from now on.

Blessings and I hope your sister- and all women sick enough to accept abusive relationships- finds her true self and honors herself.

S
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