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#1 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#2 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 12:08 PM
 
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you can get full final sole no visitation custody and still get support/medical benefits/right to inherit for your child.

If you want to strip him you could get him to sign the rights over to someone else? like have your father adopt your son in place of your ex? I am not even sure that can be done...but it would be a way for him not to have any rights I am thinking...

also it sounds as if there is some anger going on on his part....so he's not being rational wait it out a bit and see a lawyer

8 might be enough
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#3 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 12:23 PM
 
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Legally, you can't let him out of his child support obligation. It's your child's due and you can't give it away on his behalf. He can sign over his rights all he wants, but it won't let him out of it unless someone else adopts the child.

And it sounds like he still wants to see the kid, right? So why would he want to sign over his rights? If he thinks it will get him out of CS he's mistaken, so maybe once he realizes that he won't want to sign over his rights at all.

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#4 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Legally, you can't let him out of his child support obligation. It's your child's due and you can't give it away on his behalf. He can sign over his rights all he wants, but it won't let him out of it unless someone else adopts the child.

And it sounds like he still wants to see the kid, right? So why would he want to sign over his rights? If he thinks it will get him out of CS he's mistaken, so maybe once he realizes that he won't want to sign over his rights at all.
my situation is QUITE complicated so I would have to write a novel for everyone to understand. But I dont want child support if it means I dont have to worry about him fighting for custody one day, trust me its just easier for me...not to mention him as well if he doesnt have to pay. Ive read on a few sites that if both he and I agree that he should sign over rights that it can be done...I think it might be different from state to state but I thought that was the case for CA.
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#5 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#6 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 04:44 PM
 
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Him giving up his parental rights does not absolve him of paying child support unless someone else adopts your child. You can always file for child support at any time. I am not sure if the parental rights thing can be reversed, I don't think so, I believe its permanent like adoption is.
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#7 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#8 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 06:24 PM
 
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For a certain period, differs by state, yes he can. However, in order to get that order approved by a judge, you will have child support issues as the judge will make that part of the proceedings and will inform your ex that he is legally required to pay child support even if he chooses to surrender his parental rights. Do you honestly think he will surrender knowing full well that he will have to pay ? Even if you never apply, god forbid you need food stamps or any other economic aid, they will go after him. The judge may very well set it simultaneous to the other hearing and/or refuse to sign off on the termination until a child support order is in place. This isn't done to protect you, this is done to protect your Child's right to that money. It would be against public interest to do otherwise and therefore not allowed
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#9 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#10 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 08:45 PM
 
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If you're getting public assistance, I doubt any judge would allow the two of you to decide you don't want child support. He's obligated to pay it, and if you're on welfare, then child enforcement agencies will go after it. In some states, he will be required to reimburse the state first for the cost of them paying for your assistance. You can't opt out of CS and then be on public assistance.

Now, as for signing away the rights, we went through a situation with my father when we addressed termination of rights. At that time (1993-ish), we were told that you cannot just sign away rights without someone else taking over (as in a step-parent adopting the child). That wasn't CA, and I'm sure the laws are different everywhere. Your situation sounds complex, so you're probably best consulting with an attorney.

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#11 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 09:41 PM
 
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im already on food stamps and wic and financial aid through the state..i told you my situation is quite complex. Ive read that if he and I both agree he wont have to pay that is fine. I think im gonna have to get a consultation with an attorney to know for sure. thanks though
No court is going to (or should) allow a parent to not financially support a child and then have the state pick up the tab. He will owe regardless of whatever parental rights he exercises or abdicates. So, yes, he can relinquish his rights, but it will not get him out of obligations (financial support), so he may not want to.

To the judge it could appear that either the man is a deadbeat trying to get out of his obligation and getting taxpayers to fund his child or it could appear that the two parents planned to still exchange money to care for the child while defrauding the government. Neither would sit well with most judges, I'd guess.

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#12 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 09:46 PM
 
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This sounds like it may trigger a GAL for your child. I'm in NY, but a lawyer told me that if it looks like a parent is not financially supporting a child, for whatever reason, and whether or not the other parent cares, the courts/judges will step in and do what they can to make it happen.

I'm sure you have your reasons for wanting things to work out this way, but I'm not sure that this will be possible. You'll need to speak with a lawyer.
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#13 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 09:46 PM
 
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Once termination happens it's hard to have it overturned, but it's happened. So I guess it depends on the circumstances of the case.

If you wish for his rights to be terminated you will need to file a petition with the courts. There are several reasons I think this will be hard to complete in your situation. One is that your receiving help from the state and are willing to give up child support. Second when your child's father gives up his rights, nobody is then adopting your child. Most cases I have read about the courts wait until marriage has been one year long until they are willing to terminate the rights to the father. Third this is expensive. You will need a lawyer, your ex needs a lawyer, and in most cases the court will want a lawyer appointed for your child, and you will need to pay for that lawyer as well.

I found this on the internet. Here is a link to where I found this information.

The state of California had a case in 2006 where they wouldn't allow the parents to choose to have the father terminate his rights saying
"Parents have no right, in California, to waive or limit by agreement a child's right to support.... Public policy intervenes to protect the child's continued right to support. A judgment so terminating parental rights and the attendant obligation to support the child is void as a breach of public policy and as an act in excess of the court's jurisdiction."

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#14 of 37 Old 03-25-2008, 09:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#15 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 09:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cubasianchica View Post
I knew me mentioning that I am on public assistance was going to create some waves. I have only been on it a month and its a very temporary thing probably just till I recuperate from giving birth. I will not have it in a matter of weeks though. but thanks again mamas

also what about this. if he signs over the rights someone told me that I can have like my dad adopt my child. if that is the case then he CANT come back for rights...right? does it have to be my dad or a male figure or can I have my mom adopt him too. Id like it like this as well because my mom is more capable then my dad and if something were to happen to me then she is already the guardian and my stbx wont be next in line... right?
Hon, with each reply you seem sad or don't like the response. We're just giving you the truth, what information we know of the courts, it's not a personal attack on your situation. If it were up to me, and your child's best interest would be to have parental termination of father's rights, I'd give it to you no matter if your getting assistance or not.

My 7yo dd hasn't seen her dad since 2004, and hasn't spoken to him in over a year. I have never received child support, and I believe that if I wanted to I would have a hard time making a case for his rights to be terminated.

If you would like your mom and dad to adopt your child you would need to have your parental rights ended as well as your ex's.

Did you read the court case that I gave the link to?

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#16 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#17 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 12:53 PM
 
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Keep in mind that I am not a lawyer in real life, nor do I play one on TV.

It would seem to me that IF the courts do allow him to relinquish his parental rights, then it would be very difficult for him to recover them later, whether or not someone else had taken on those rights.

Unless of course he could prove fraud or coercion to make him give up those rights. But that's another kettle of fish.

If someone else does take on those rights, I would think it would be harder (but not necessarily impossible) for him to take them back than it would if someone else hasn't.

I would think, also, that the more time goes by between when he relinquishes rights and when he tries to recover them, the less of a chance he has of succeeding. For example, easiest within the first few weeks, almost impossible 10 years down the road.

To get a good, accurate answer to your question, you really need to talk to a GOOD lawyer who is fully aware of all the intricate details of your specific situation, all the recent case law relevant to your question (your state and up to the Supreme Court), AND to the attitudes held by judges in your judicial district.

But bear in mind that that answer may by necessity be uncertain. Even the best lawyer (or, especially the best lawyer) might have to say--if they are honest--"possible, but difficult", or "highly unlikely", or whatever. There are very few absolutes in law. There are precedents, case law, principles, laws, etc. But they are then applied to real-life situations, real-life people...

The only thing I can add is that there is NOTHING you can do to stop him from attempting to recover those rights at a later time in the courts.

Whether or not he has a snowball's chance in Hawaii of succeeding or will be thrown out of court by the judge on the first day is a completely different question.
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#18 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 12:57 PM
 
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well i want him to be able to see his child...on my terms not his or some court order. I dont even want 100% custody...thats what I originally wanted but it would be so much easier just to have him sign over the rights...then I would be the only parent with obviously all the custody.
okay I think its not as simple as you might think from what I can remember he'd have to go before a judge and if he wants some involvement with the child I am not sure the judge would consent..signing away rights is not something you can just sign a paper so to speak...the judge has to determine best interests of child...get a lawyer and ask them.

or what about just not putting his name on the birth certificate?
or putting someone else's....like John F. Kennedy

if you get a legal father *which if you are on assistance they might go after for support...then he is no longer a father end of story but your child will have a new father....hey if you are single - why not find some dude that needs a greencard .....he'll pay you for the greencard and you get a daddy (KIDDING that's illegal)

you could overcomplicate things - give birth out of state, country...
or you could draw up a contract saying he was a sperm donor not a relationship...although that abuses the system.

Every choice you take has consequences - put no father on the bc and they may ask you for a affid. why you don't know the father's identity...hence you might have to lie - not a good situation...

or you could simply draw up a contract with the father in regards to giving you full custody and a minor amount of cs (like 25 bucks) that way if you are on assistance they might not go after him for MORE as he is paying SOME..

8 might be enough
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#19 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 01:06 PM
 
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DS1's bio parents voluntarily signed off on their parental rights several years ago. Either one could contest it in court but they would have to prove to be fit parents. Just my experiance.
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#20 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 02:34 PM
 
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You cannot do what you are wanting to do. I understand the frustration since that's what I have wanted to do for ages.

In order to terminate parental rights you must file through the courts which means you will go before a judge. A judge will not terminate parental rights unless there is another potential "parent" waiting to support the child and the "real" parent either signs away rights as part of the terminate/adoption process or can be proven to have abandoned the child. The judge also may determine child support needs to be ordered at the court hearing. A grandparent can not take the place of a parent just to get fathers rights terminated.

You can go to court and fight for sole custody but that's hard to get and still does not absolve the father. You can say you don't want support and that's fine but it doesn't mean a judge won't order it....now tons of dads never pay but that's a different issue.

I know in TX you can get foodstamps, wic, and school aid without going after the dad but with cash aid they will eventually go after the other parent. Some people sign a form that stops the state from going after the other parent due to abuse issues but I don't know your situation. You can get away with getting aid without giving up the father for a little while and I understand that's all you're needing.

I'm just saying that what you want you will not get. Good luck though.
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#21 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#22 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#23 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 09:50 PM
 
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Well, I do work in the field of family law. If you are married at the time of birth, then he is the father legally speaking. With or without a name on the birth certificate. And to lie about in court could not only cause you to perjure yourself and wind up in jail (look at Scooter Libby), it would negate the adoption if one had taken place and completely leave you vulnerable. Second, you would need to consult with a family law attorneyt regarding who might adopt your child, but be ware. Were you to ever fight with a family member who had adopted your child, they would have every right to come after visitation and custody...They also have a say in educational, medical, etc. choices. In addition, while you may think you will never again need it, if you were to need financial help from the state as almost everyone finds themselves in that position at some time or another, they would go after whatever person had adopted your child, and possibly destroy your familial relationship...Again, thats IF the state would allow an adoption outside of a legally recognized domestic partnership or marriage, which is questionable. I know Fl doesn't but California does have gay adoption laws and may have addressed further the issues of 2 non-married persons. Barring an adoption, no, California state statute does not allow for voluntary surrender of parental rights without continued obligation to child support. It allows for sole custody, it allows for surrender with continued right to child support, and it allows for termination in VERY extreme cases such as severe sexual abuse or physical abuse of the child. And yes, I looked it up. Google it yourself if you don't like the answers you are getting. You seem quite sure you can do it, so I don't understand why you are asking anyone here.
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#24 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#25 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 11:23 PM
 
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I don't understand why you think it's okay to accept public assistance without going after child support. certainly in the case of escaping abuse it's going to happen and should, but that doesn't sound like it's you situation. And EVERYONE has a complicated situation. what you aren't hearing is that it does not make a bit a difference how you feel about child support, you can't approach this issue without it being a factor because the legal system is going to make it a factor. Not hearing what you want to hear is not necessarily the same thing as not getting helpful replies.
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#26 of 37 Old 03-26-2008, 11:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cubasianchica View Post
Hey all I had a question about this. My stbx said he would sign over parental rights to me... thats what I want. I know I will not get child support if he does that and that is fine. My question though is he is threatening me saying that if he does do this and doesnt like how things are afterwards he will go to court and get his rights back. (even though I know I dont HAVE to let him see our child I said I would but he thinks Im gonna pull a fast one) anyway my question is once he signs it over can he really go to court to get it back? I thought once its done its done. Anyone know about this?

also how would he sign over rights? we are in CA, does that need to be done through a big court hearing or can we do it with our own attorneys? any info is greatly appreciated.
He cant terminate his rights unless there is someone willing to adopt him. You would have to be married for a year to another man, and he would have to adopt him. Once the rights are terminated, than they lose all rights to the child and can not just get them back.

Brandy; Mother to Aspen (7/1996) and Ky (5/2006) and partner to Ryan

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#27 of 37 Old 03-27-2008, 12:02 AM
 
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Since you are married he is legally the father. No matter what you put on the birth certificate.

I can't imagine any judge will allow him to terminate his rights- especially while you are on public assistance. It's just not likely to happen. He could refuse to have any custody or visitation but then he could always take you back to court for a revision of custody.

Consult a lawyer in CA. but I wouldn't count on that as your salvation.
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#28 of 37 Old 03-27-2008, 12:16 AM
 
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[QUOTE=cubasianchica;10857422]Im almost positive I CAN do what Im looking to do...Ive found many people online that have its just a question of how. I do plan to go in front of a judge and based on CA websites one of the grounds to remove the rights is if both parents consent to it. QUOTE]

Bottom line: You are not eligible for voluntary tpa while collecting public assistance. Wait to file when you can prove that you have the means to support the child without the taxpayer's money, and you'll stand a better chance.
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#29 of 37 Old 03-27-2008, 12:27 AM
 
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there was a time when MDC was helpful but I suppose now is the time to move on. the same crowd just doesnt hang around here anymore.... either that or too many hormones.
MDC is still helpful. I've seen many people reply to this thread with a lot of really good information, it's just that the responses aren't what you were a)expecting b)want to hear.

I haven't seen anybody act judgmental, or rude. The only reason we brought up public assistance is because we've been threw it. If your a single parent, and you go for public assistance most of the time they want information on the father. That is so that they can recoup some of the money that they are paying to the mother asking for assistance. It's not a judgement. A judge will not look kindly on a mother willing to give up child support who has been on assistance for any period of time. We're all bringing it up, cause many of us have been there.

Child support belongs to the child. It's not a mother or a fathers choice to decide the child won't receive money that belongs to the child. Most states hold this up as the law, it's one of the reasons so many states won't allow termination unless somebody else is willing to adopt the child, they want to make sure that the child is supported.

OR if the father is abusive to the child.

Over the years I have seen many mama's look into having the rights of the father terminated. I only know of one mama who got the ruling in her favor, and didn't have a person adopting her child. Just one.

I sent you that link about the case law in California. Saying . . . "The California Court of Appeals reaffirmed today that parents may not, by mutual agreement, waive their obligations toward their children." and "Parents have no right, in California, to waive or limit by agreement a child's right to support.... Public policy intervenes to protect the child's continued right to support. A judgment so terminating parental rights and the attendant obligation to support the child is void as a breach of public policy and as an act in excess of the court's jurisdiction."

So we're not just making up stuff so not to agree with you. It's the law.

So of course find a lawyer, and try to do what you want. But in the end you might pay a lot of money for a court hearing, and lawyers for nothing. I do wish you the best.

Please don't judge us saying we're not helpful for not giving the information you want. All the blessings in the world for your upcoming birth and a early Happy Baby Moon.

-Janna, independent mother of dd, Ms. Mattie Sky born on my 25th birthday, 06*23*2000. My Mama Feb.21,1938-Sept.10,2006
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#30 of 37 Old 03-27-2008, 12:33 AM
 
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Unless your STBX dies, he will continue to have a responsibility to provide child support, as far as the courts are concerned, unless, as others have pointed out, someone else adopts your child. Your child has two parents, in the eyes of the law. If you decided to give up all your parental rights, you would still be responsible for a portion of your child's support. Child support is not tied to parental rights, and there is no quid pro quo.

I was only casually dating my son's father when I became pregnant, and much as I would rather he didn't, he has rights and responsibilities. If I applied for state services, they could go after him for child support, even if he had no parental rights. If I refused to name the father, they could refuse to give me the services. That's just the way it is. It's not just about what you want. Your child has rights as well, and it's in the law.
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