Queer TTC December 2008 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 281 Old 12-04-2008, 07:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Raene View Post
Okay, I'm still really confused about the timing for all of this.

So, am I supposed to be doing insemination before, during, or after the 2 pink lines show up (aka the LH surge)? i did insem twice, once Sunday, then Tuesday, and last night I took a test and there were still 2 lines, but the LH one was fading. Today there's just one line. We were going to do a third insemination today, but should we not...is it too late?
Start the first time you get a positive and keep going until cm changes to non-fertile or you are sure O has happened. I think I read you don't temp so CM or cervix should be good indicators.

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#62 of 281 Old 12-04-2008, 07:37 PM
 
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Lex - thanks for the info!

I might ask for a referral, not for this month - donor is likely good to go, since I'm probably going to O around the 15-18th before the real craziness starts. If not, sitting this month out will not be the end of the world.

Raene - OPKs are disastrously unreliable for some people. The absolute best days to conceive are the day before O and the day of O. The day after O is good, and the four days before the day before O are also good - ONLY if you have EWCM. You don't need a lot, but some.

So, if you think of it like this:

- 6 No good
- 5 Good
- 4 Good
- 3 Good
- 2 Good
- 1 VERY GOOD
0 VERY GOOD
+ 1 Good
+ 2 No good

You should get a positive OPK (test line as dark as or darker than the control line) anywhere from -2 (48 hours before O) to 0 (the day of O) - because it's hard to tell how long the surge lasts, whether you caught the beginning or as it was peaking, etc, many people do multiple OPKs per day once you're getting close.

I've used this technique, with cheap OPKs from early-pregnancy-test.com and discovered I had a very short surge, about 24 hours before O.

So, with fresh sperm, I'd say start insemming as soon as you see a positive OPK or you have EWCM, and track how many days of EWCM you have, so you know for future cycles, and then stop when you no longer have EWCM.

I've hear from a lot of folks that the magic timing is 36 hours past a positive OPK...but you're not so much worried about MAGIC as you would be if you were using frozen. With fresh Good and VERY GOOD are close enough.

GOOD LUCK!!! VERY GOOD LUCK! When do you start insemming?

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#63 of 281 Old 12-04-2008, 08:21 PM
 
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Well, we decided not to go tonight. So hopefully those first two times were enough
I've been having really painful cramping on one side (ovary?) and it's terrible. I had that the last time when I ended up miscarrying, but surely it's too early for that? We only just started insem'ing on Sunday.
I saw that thick cervical fluid both Saturday and Monday...I just hope my timing was okay.
Hope I'm not a bother...I can't believe this conception stuff is so complicated. I really lucked out the last time around.

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#64 of 281 Old 12-04-2008, 09:39 PM
 
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When you're using fresh sperm, I believe that the most important indicator for timing is the presence of EWCM. Sperm needs EWCM to get through the cervix, and sperm can stay alive in good EWCM for several days. If I was using fresh sperm, I'd probably still use OPKs once a day, just to confirm O (I tend to have annovulatory cycles, so I depend on the OPK to let me know that I've actually ovulated), but I wouldn't base the timing of inseminations on an OPK at all. The EWCM is all that really matters with fresh (and it sounds like you timed things quite well, Raene!), especially with IVI (intra-vaginal insemination).

When you're using frozen sperm (which only lives for 24-48 hours), and/or doing an IUI, then you need to rely more on an OPK for timing, in which case most people try to do one insem. the day of the positive OPK, and one the day after. After you get a positive OPK, there's really no reason to keep testing with OPKs since that information won't tell you anything (some people will have a positive for several days, some people only for one day, all that matters timing wise is when the OPK *first* turns positive).

HTH!

Lex

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#65 of 281 Old 12-05-2008, 11:29 AM
 
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That helps immensely, thanks so much!!

What is OPK?

Mama with DD (01/04) and DD (08/09)
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#66 of 281 Old 12-05-2008, 01:17 PM
 
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That helps immensely, thanks so much!!

What is OPK?
OPK = ovulation predictor kit...the lh strips you are using.

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#67 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 10:21 AM
 
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Today is 13DPO for us; BFN this am. We have an appt for Monday for a beta -- if that is negative she'll stop the prometrium and wait for AF to show up. I really thought that this might be it for us. She's been extremely tired, a bit nauseous, sore breasts, all of it. It's hard to tell what is real and what is the medication she's taking (because this cycle, our second, she is or has been taking Clomid, Estrace, Prometrium).
She's frustrated. She thinks she's too old (32), her eggs are damaged/old/not working, etc. I'm wondering if there is an average for IUI conception? I imagine it's different for each person. I'm not overly concerned if we haven't conceived after 2 cycles as I read there's about a 15% chance each time but she wants to go to IVF if the next one doesn't work.
Is that extreme? Or is that the standard? How many IUIs would one do before moving on to IVF, generally?
I keep having dreams that she's pregnant. Last night I dreamt we had agreed to adopt two boys under 2 and then she got the news she was prego. From no kids to 3, just like that.
To the ones still active on this thread, how long have you been TTC and what methods have you used, if you don't mind my asking?
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#68 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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we are 15dpo today. still waiting for af to show up but since the last 2 ovulation cycles dp has had a 15 day lp and a 16 day lp we may still have a day or 2 to wait.

in other (kinda scary) news, we were driving on the interstate yesterday headed to dp's acupuncture appt (we took the day off to get some xmas shopping done) and drove over what looked like someone's exhaust pipe!!! dp couldn't swerve because a truck on our right was really close to the lane line. needless to say, it bust both passenger side tires. by some major miracle, we didn't crash and managed to get off the road to the shoulder ok. we're members of aaa so they came pretty quickly and towed us to the nearest tire store. our son wasn't with us - he was safe and sound at daycare.

g

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#69 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 02:48 PM
 
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indigoscott, how scary!!!! I recenlty had a pretty bad car accident and know how scary it can be. I will have to say your luck with AAA was better than mine. The last time I had to use them, we ended up waiting over 2hrs for the tow truck because the idiot couldn't find us parked near a mall! I was screaming so loud at the AAA operator that they put me on the phone with their "escalation" expert.

I'm glad you and DP are safe and your dear LO was safe and sound at pre-school.

: Well, any decision you make has to be comfortable for you both and possibly more comfortable for DP since she is the one carrying. But, I think going to IVF after only 2 IUIs is a bit premature. It took us 5 tries to get our BFP. And I think the "standard" recommendation is to try at least 6 IUIs before moving on to IVF. Not to mention the expense associated with IVF and IVF is no guarantee. And 32 is soooo not OLD! Hopefully it is just her frustration speaking right now and you two can sit down and realistically look at your options and come to an agreement about how to proceed.

Heck, Quasar and I were arguing about seeking out an RE and tests and such if our last cycle didn't work. Luckily it did work and we avoided all that discussion.

Good luck... these are emotional and difficult decisions to make.

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#70 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 03:33 PM
 
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Iheartsheep- I agree with smartycat, based on my own experience. Last year at 32 we had been trying for a year and a half, first with a kd during insems at home then moved on to IUI with frozen. After the second IUI we met with an RE. I was pretty frustrated at that point, so we moved to IVF. Unfortunately it didn't work and it cost a lot of money. Due to insurance coverage i asked the doctor about returning to IUI's and they couldn't give me a reason why it wouldn't work, so that is where we are now 12 dpo. (I haven't tested yet, I am nervous about the results).
Due to all the money that we spent, I wish that we had waited to do IVF and tried IUI a little bit longer. I feel that I have also had every test under the sun and all of the results have been normal. So for me it is a lesson in patience and knowing that when the time is right that child will come into our lives.

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#71 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 05:30 PM
 
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And...the counterpoint...Iheartsheep

Have you had an HSG done? AKA "dye test" to make sure your DP's tubes are open and her uterus is a normal shape, etc?

My advice is to get every test you can get done - hormone work ups, thyroid, HSG, the works, and then make a decision.

For some folks, the IUIs are just a waste of time/money, and it's better to know that if at all possible. I'm not saying don't move on to IVF, but only do so if you are fully informed.

I haven't crunched the numbers, but if you add up the cost of donor sperm for, say, six IUIs at 2 vials each, plus the cost of all those IUIs, doesn't that go a long way toward the cost of an IVF cycle?

Also, check into insurance coverage. I don't know anyone whose insurace covered the sperm (except mine, back in the good/bad old days) but I know some folks who've had IVF covered, sometimes only after a certain number of IUI cycles. If that's the case for you, you can keep doing IUIs to get your cycles in and use that information to decide on what meds if any to take and how many vials to use each cycle.

As a for instance, if I knew I was going to likely end up doing IVF (which, in all honesty, I'm starting to feel like is a possibility for me, going into my seventh cycle), since I'm in a mandatory coverage state for insurance, I might decide to do only unmedicated cycles with only one vial of sperm to keep costs down until I qualified for IVF.

Whatever you decide, make sure you're both on board with it.

AFM, Indigo - I'm right there with you! Thankfully everyone in your world was Ok and it wasn't a big deal! I love AAA, it's so worth it!

I was in a car accident yesterday, me and my big dog. We spent yesterday at various body shops getting estimates, and then today we went to the vet (back/hip pain for her, and some drugs, and maybe massage therapy) and the doctor (neck/head/back pain for me, some drugs and physio).

My head is KILLING me. I'm not certain I don't have a concussion, but it's been checked out.

I stopped at a stop sign and I was waiting to turn right, and I edged up to see around the car beside me waiting to turn left. The woman behind me decided I was going, so she sped up to kind of ride my bumper, instead of stopping at the stop sign and waiting for her own break in the traffic. And I wasn't actually going anywhere, just sneaking up three feet. BOOM! And down we went.

Because she was accelerating, and I was stopped, she hit me pretty hard and my car is slightly squished, and both The Dog and I were/are sore and shaken up.

It was CD 3 yesterday, so no chance I'm pregnant, which is a huge relief, because I would be so worried and it would limit which drugs I could take, etc.

At the doc's this morning, he was all reluctant to prescribe me anything decent because I'm TTC, but then I explained that I can't possibly even get pregnant for the next two weeks, because I won't ovulate 'til then. So, he checked how long the drugs would remain in my system - 3 days. So I can take them for the next week at least, without worry.

It shouldn't, but it still surprises me when doctors have just about no understanding of how conception works.

I checked in with Donor Man and all is good for this month - I was a little worried with the holiday nuttiness, but if all goes well, I don't have to worry about ovulating in the "danger zone" between Xmas and New Year's. I'm hoping for a BFP this year!!!! That's all I want for Xmas - a BFP! And a new bumper for my car.

SPBC Finally a Papa! Elise Ember Soleil - 10/3/10 - 4:09 AM - 6 lbs 8 oz My daughter eats donor milk! Human milk for human babies!
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#72 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 06:40 PM
 
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Thanks for all your insight. We've had every fertility workup they offer -- at our clinic they do that right out of the gate so you're not spending money on something that probably won't work. They did hormone levels, a baseline sonogram to check pelvic measurements, and we had an HSG. All totally normal (i.e. no reason to suspect IUIs won't work).
Our original plan had been to do 6 IUIs and if we hadn't conceived then to move to IVF. Now DP is in SUCH a hurry she wants to move to that after 3. So we'll discuss it with the doc and see what he says (if, of course, we don't have a BFP lurking which is still a possibility -- although getting more remote by the day).
Our clinic has an IVF guarantee (called a "shared risk program"). It's a fixed price that you pay for up to 6 cycles and, if you don't "take home" a baby, you have all of that refunded to you. So if we were to conceive the first cycle, we would have paid more than they would have charged for a single cycle with no guarantee, but if it takes more than one cycle it sort of evens out. And if you miscarry or have a chemical pregnancy that still 'doesn't count'. It's kind of confusing, but here it is very simply:
The average price for an IVF is $10k (at this clinic).
We would pay about $25k for 6 cycles and have a full refund if we don't have a live birth as a result of those cycles. Of course we still have to cover the cost of donor sperm, which is additional.
ANYWAY, that's where we are. We'll find out definitively on Monday and we'll likely do at least one more IUI.
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#73 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 06:41 PM
 
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And oh my gosh, I'm glad you two are ok! Take care of yourselves!
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#74 of 281 Old 12-06-2008, 11:29 PM
 
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It's kind of confusing, but here it is very simply:
The average price for an IVF is $10k (at this clinic).
We would pay about $25k for 6 cycles and have a full refund if we don't have a live birth as a result of those cycles. Of course we still have to cover the cost of donor sperm, which is additional.
ANYWAY, that's where we are. We'll find out definitively on Monday and we'll likely do at least one more IUI.
Woah. That's intense! Honestly, I don't know if I know anyone who has gone through 6 IVF cycles. Most people i know have found one unsuccessful IVF cycle heartbreaking.

SPBC Finally a Papa! Elise Ember Soleil - 10/3/10 - 4:09 AM - 6 lbs 8 oz My daughter eats donor milk! Human milk for human babies!
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#75 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 12:04 AM
 
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Iheartsheep-

Just chiming in to say that it took me 6 six IUI cycles to get a pregnancy that stuck. I did get pregnant the first time, mc'd, then had four BFN cycles before it worked again. For me, the deciding factor seemed to be sperm count. My two BFP cycles were with donors who had counts above 45 million. All my BFN cycles were with vials in the 25 million range. I really wish that I'd moved more aggressively toward a higher count donor sooner. I spent a lot of time falling in love with these dream donors, and not getting pregnant with them. My successful pregnancy came after I called the bank, asked for the numbers on all of my short list donors, and then went with the one with the highest counts, even though he was at the bottom of my list. Some banks won't tell you the numbers, but mine (Sperm Bank of California) did, and for me, it seemed to make the difference.

Good luck!

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#76 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 12:04 AM
 
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Sorry about the painful af, papa. Drink lots of red raspberry leaf tea!!
Motherwort helps too!


indigoscot, glad you're ok!! So glad your LO was at daycare too, that would have been really scary!


FtMPapa, glad you're ok too (except for a bump on the head)... whew! Best of luck getting your BFP for Xmas.

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#77 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 12:34 AM
 
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indigo & papa, sorry to hear about the accidents - glad everyone is ok!

I'm waiting patiently at 3dpo (or 5dpo possibly). I have lots on the go at the moment so I think this 2WW will be the quickest yet! Other than some low, intermittent cramps, I don't have any 'symptoms' yet. Surprise, surprise at 3 dpo

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#78 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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thanks to everyone for their kind thoughts! and papa, how scary for you too, i'm glad you and the pup are ok. make sure you get follow-up care on your head/neck pain as you've probably sustained some soft tissue damage and that may need massage and/or chiropractic care...and make sure you report that so the other driver's insurance will cover it!

dp has just reported pink spotting so we think tomorrow is cd1!!!! wooooo!

as for ivf...hmmm...that's a tough one. at my, ahem, advanced age of 36 we decided i could have 6 tries to get pregnant and if not dp would carry all the babies. i got pregnant on try #2 at age 37 and our son was born last year. my fsh was 6.7 and aside from a slightly elevated prolactin level (which was taken care of with dostinex) no serious fertility issues. i think if your dp has only tried twice and is 32 (my dp is 32) i'd certainly give it 4 more tries before attempting ivf. have you had any fertility testing done? that would also be an option before immediately moving to ivf...and less expensive too!
of course, i will keep fx that you are bfp this cycle!

g

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#79 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 03:43 AM
 
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If you want to see photos of a cervix all throughout a woman's cycle, check this out!! (not for the queasy... lol)

http://mybeautifulcervix.googlepages.com

I though this was a pretty cool find.

placenta.gifeat.gif I'm a queer / trans-activist / poly / pagan / (dis)abled  / crazy / crunchy partner to fsonj; we're mamas to our unschooled/freeskooled 10yo, and co-breastfeed our sprightly toddler love.gif born Nov '10! (Ask me about how to supplement at the breast!)

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#80 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 09:51 AM
 
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Thanks for all the info. I'm still not sure what we're going to do -- it likely depends on RE recommendations. One more IUI for certain.
Today is 14 DPO. BFN. Appointment tomorrow am.
In the meantime I'm trying not to stress and knitting lots of socks.
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#81 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 10:05 AM
 
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Thanks for all the info. I'm still not sure what we're going to do -- it likely depends on RE recommendations. One more IUI for certain.
Today is 14 DPO. BFN. Appointment tomorrow am.
In the meantime I'm trying not to stress and knitting lots of socks.
What are your sperm numbers like? I think it can make all the difference in the world. Our donor had counts at about 60 million. I got pregnant on the first cycle (at age 22), with clomid, and then it took three IUI cycles for baby #3 (at age 25). Dw got pregnant on her first cycle (at age 31). I think our "luck" is largely due to the sperm since several of the mothers in our donor sibling group (i.e. who used the same sperm that we did) got pregnant on the first or second attempt.

So, my number one recommendation would be to get yourselves some super sperm. With super sperm, I would try 3 cycles on clomid before moving on to something else (assuming your dp does not O on her own, the next step would usually be injectibles). After 6 months of unsuccessful IUIs with super sperm, I'd go for the IVF (though I think it's usually not recommended until after 12 cycles of IUI).

HTH!

So sorry to hear about the car crashes!!! I'm glad everyone is (relatively) okay. Yikes.

Enjoying our first snow here in Western MA! :

Lex

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#82 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 10:14 AM
 
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This morning is 13 dpo and there was two lines!!!!!!! The second one was lighter then the control, but you didn't have to squint or turn it on an angle to see it. We waited 10 minutes and it was still there. I think this is the BFP I have been waiting for. I want to go to the store and buy a case of tests just to make sure. I am in disbelief. I will test again tomorrow morning and call the doctors for a beta! :

Loving wife to Kate. So in love with Amelia. Born August 14, 2009
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#83 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 10:27 AM
 
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If you want to see photos of a cervix all throughout a woman's cycle, check this out!! (not for the queasy... lol)

http://mybeautifulcervix.googlepages.com

I though this was a pretty cool find.
Thanks so much for posting this! I'd seen it several months ago and then a few weeks ago I couldn't find the link anywhere. Yay!!

Mama with DD (01/04) and DD (08/09)
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#84 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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This morning is 13 dpo and there was two lines!!!!!!! The second one was lighter then the control, but you didn't have to squint or turn it on an angle to see it. We waited 10 minutes and it was still there. I think this is the BFP I have been waiting for. I want to go to the store and buy a case of tests just to make sure. I am in disbelief. I will test again tomorrow morning and call the doctors for a beta! :
Woohoo, congratulations!!!!

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#85 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 10:42 AM
 
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This morning is 13 dpo and there was two lines!!!!!!! The second one was lighter then the control, but you didn't have to squint or turn it on an angle to see it. We waited 10 minutes and it was still there. I think this is the BFP I have been waiting for. I want to go to the store and buy a case of tests just to make sure. I am in disbelief. I will test again tomorrow morning and call the doctors for a beta! :
Hooray! Congratulations!

Sending wishes for a joyful 9 months! :

Lex

Mindfully mothering SIX kids (ages 4, 5, 7, 8, 11 & 11) in a small house with a lot of love.
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#86 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 10:44 AM
 
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Hi!

Could you add me to the waiting to ovulate list? My partner will be inseminated this week, probably on Tuesday!! This is our first try so we are very excited!

Good luck to everyone trying this month!

Emily
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#87 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 10:51 AM
 
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::::::

DM630 - WAY TO GO!!!!!


Get thee a digital test!!! And a beta!!!!

Many wishes for a H&H9M!!!!

(Ok, y'all, this board needed this, badly! This seems like the first good news this thread has had in a while....)

SPBC Finally a Papa! Elise Ember Soleil - 10/3/10 - 4:09 AM - 6 lbs 8 oz My daughter eats donor milk! Human milk for human babies!
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#88 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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woohoo, dm!! that's fanTAStic news! like papa said, we needed some good news around here! best wishes for a happy and healthy 9 months.

iheartsheep, i also agree with the "super sperm". our donor (now retired) also has amazing counts and i believe that had a lot to do with me getting pregnant on try #2. alas our bank doesn't provide the #s until after you've bought the vials.

afu, today is cd1!!!! i just beeped our clinic and they are working on getting us an appt either today, tomorrow or tuesday to baseline. i can hardly believe we are about to start trying for baby #2!! let the fertility drug hormone ride begin!

edited to add - we have our appt set for tomorrow! woo!

g

my family - dp d heartbeat.gif, ds b biggrinbounce.gif (4), ds f thumbsuck.gif (2), dd a baby.gif (jan '12), ddog m dog2.gif
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#89 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh and welcome wazzmum!! i have moved you to waiting to o!

g

my family - dp d heartbeat.gif, ds b biggrinbounce.gif (4), ds f thumbsuck.gif (2), dd a baby.gif (jan '12), ddog m dog2.gif
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#90 of 281 Old 12-07-2008, 01:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM630 View Post
This morning is 13 dpo and there was two lines!!!!!!! The second one was lighter then the control, but you didn't have to squint or turn it on an angle to see it. We waited 10 minutes and it was still there. I think this is the BFP I have been waiting for. I want to go to the store and buy a case of tests just to make sure. I am in disbelief. I will test again tomorrow morning and call the doctors for a beta! :
: Yay!!! That's awesome news!! Very happy for you and wish you health and happiness!!

Me joy.gif, DP treehugger.gif, S bikenew.gif and L babyboy.gif
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