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#1 of 33 Old 12-19-2003, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.afa.net/petitions/marriagepoll.asp

As of right now there is 49% in favor and 42% opposed...

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#2 of 33 Old 12-19-2003, 10:46 PM
 
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I voted today!!
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#3 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 01:13 AM
 
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can I vent for a second about my complete frustration that straights think they have the right to tell queers what they can and can't do. I'm so freaking sick of this whole thing. I'm tired of straights getting to decide if gays are good enough to be able to keep their children, adopt, marry, shit live even it seems like.

the superiority required to think you have the right to tell someone who they can love and the ability of homophobes to intimidate people into being int he closet just freaking pisses me off.

sorry to highjack your thread.

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#4 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 04:11 AM
 
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they fear what they do not understand...easier to demonize than to try to understand...easier to criticize than to reach an understanding...easier to hate than to accept...sigh...
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#5 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 04:15 AM
 
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I voted too. And continuing off topic....

I agree with Arduinna.
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#6 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 04:34 AM
 
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FYI there ar some active threads on this in Activism. I am deeply saddened that this is still a topic of debate.
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#7 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 10:58 AM
 
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I am straight, but I just voted. I see my friends having to suffer because in some peoples eyes their unions are not as valuable as a legally married couple. I say bull**#t.
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#8 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 11:57 AM
 
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thanks everyone, feeling a little better ( still annoyed about this though)

Robyn, that was a beautiful way of expressing how I feel too.
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#9 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sorry, ladies, I didn't mean to bring up bad thoughts by this...I should have thought it out more. I was just hoping to get more votes against their agenda.
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#10 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 03:18 PM
 
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Mel, sorry none of my rant was really directed at you. This has been a hot media topic of late and it's a sore subject for me.

No offense meant to you, or your intentions for this thread.
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#11 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 04:21 PM
 
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thread was great...but Arduinna is right...what is it with folks trying to control others activities where it doesn't really concern them.

Thanks for posting it...
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#12 of 33 Old 12-20-2003, 08:55 PM
 
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I voted too.

And to continue the OT:
I have to agree with Arduinna and robyn. It is disgusting that some people feel they have the right to dictate another persons heart and feelings because they can't understand or accept it. I know they are ignorant (that's pretty damn clear from what they try to do), but how much of an a$$ can you be to purposefully try to keep someone else from being happy (and having the rights they deserve!)? Ugh, this topic sickens me.
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#13 of 33 Old 01-02-2004, 02:01 AM
 
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I just voted, too-- so far the poll results are:

32.85% (239504 votes) -- I oppose legalization of homosexual marriage and "civil unions."
59.15% (431220 votes) -- I favor full legalization of homosexual marriage.
8.00% (58296 votes)-- I favor a "civil union" with the full benefits of marriage except for the name.

Wonder if they're still planning to share the results with congress.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but here's their "position statement" on homosexuality:

Does AFA Hate Homosexuals?
Absolutely Not! The same Holy Bible that calls us to reject sin, calls us to love our neighbor. It is that love that motivates us to expose the misrepresentation of the radical homosexual agenda and stop its spread though our culture. AFA has sponsored several events reaching out to homosexuals and letting them know there is love and healing at the Cross of Christ.

: : There's just so much wrong with that statement, I don't know where to begin. Got to wonder how "radical" the "homosexual agenda" is when in their own poll 60% of respondents support full legalization of homosexual marriage. :
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#14 of 33 Old 01-02-2004, 03:12 AM
 
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Oh dear! I seem to have stumbled into a hotbed of radical homosexual organizing!

But seriously, whenever I see stuff like this, hear about people like this I pray. I pray that God will forgive them for perverting Her message of love. I pray that they will see the light. And I pray that queers know that not all Christians think that way.
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#15 of 33 Old 01-02-2004, 08:03 AM
 
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The same Holy Bible that calls us to reject sin, calls us to love our neighbor.

:

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#16 of 33 Old 01-05-2004, 12:02 AM
 
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Arduinna...:LOL

Kama...Thanks!! I just came out to my parents and my bro...my sis has known for a while...she's had some experiences with girls in her past...knew she'd be sympathetic... My mom is catholic, dad and bro are Born again christians...all believe being gay is a sin and that I need to repent...my dad thinks I am possessed by the devil...sigh...well...that was their first reaction anyway. They seem to be somewhat adjusting and I've told them that to flood me with anti-gay stuff, telling me to repent my sins was going to drive me away, not endear me to them...nothing would change things for me and my opinion on the rightness/wrongness of being gay...it has never been an issue for me...ever...they seem to be dealing with it little by little...no more anti-gay stuff in the mail, too.
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#17 of 33 Old 01-05-2004, 04:43 AM
 
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Robyn, sorry about your families reaction to your coming out.



I don't know about anyone else, but I'm feeling pretty worn out lately. Just so sick of dealing with people filled with hate. I was telling dp over the weekend that I just don't feel that I fit in anywhere in this country. Between my spiritual beliefs, political ones and loving women but being married to man I'm a freak. Which usually doesn't bother me, at least it didn't used to bother me as much but lately I'm dreaming of that island where I'm no longer the minority in every part of who I am. Or I'd at least accept a place where others accepted that I have a right to live my life without being expected to hide who I am.
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#18 of 33 Old 01-05-2004, 05:04 AM
 
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I'm sorry you are feeling low over all this Arduinna. You may be a freak, but you're our freak and we love you.
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#19 of 33 Old 01-05-2004, 12:06 PM
 
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thanks Kama :-)
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#20 of 33 Old 01-07-2004, 01:00 AM
 
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Robyn, Congrats on your coming out! It usually gets better with time, but you may be in for some more "Love in Action"/Exodus type literature for a while. (My dp is an ex-ex-gay...well, never all the way ex-, but you know...) Anyway, even her parents are nice to me now since I produced their first (and still only 'til dp has our 2nd in June) grandchild.

Arduinna, hey the public rhetoric is ugly right now, but it's because of the positive progress in 2003. (Sodomy laws unconstitutional, Massachusetts maybe/hopefully providing a route to legal same-gender marriage, it's possible that 2nd parent adoption is about to be available in my state....) Being a bi with a guy or bi with a girl means always having to say you're queer. What a pain.

The closest experience I have is that since having dc and growing out my (previously very short) hair, I'm not an obvious lesbian. It's very very wierd to be perceived to be heterosexual at 44 when I came out at 17 and have always struck people as d*key-looking. But I can come out to people in a straightforward way by mentioning dp or "dc's other mom."

Anyway, I think the public rhetoric is going to get even worse, despite Cheney's and Gebhart's(?) lesbian daughters. The presidential campaign is going to bring a lot of this ugliness up.

But, honey, if I get to marry my dp this May when she's 8 months pregnant and get put on the little one's birth certificate without having to go through an adoption, they can yammer on all they like.
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#21 of 33 Old 01-07-2004, 07:42 PM
 
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thank you

I don't know what I would do without you guys!!

ITA agree with you that in the end it will all be worth it once we all get the equal rights we deserve.

I'm actually more frustrated at the people I have to deal with that are homophobes than the media in general. but that is a topic for another thread.
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#22 of 33 Old 01-07-2004, 08:09 PM
 
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So I am curious... do any of you engage in specific activism on this front? Or just live your life and deal with opportunities to educate and effect change as they come up?
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#23 of 33 Old 01-07-2004, 08:55 PM
 
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Hi Kama!

I think that I used to be an activist and now just live my life, but the people around me continue to refer to me as an activist. As you know (!) running after a 3 y. old (and working and picking up slack for pregnant dp...we use only occasional substitute care and both work 80%) honestly I can't really think what I'm doing that's so active!

DP and I help coordinate a glbt (parents) playgroup through our local glbt parents/wanna be parents org. I agreed to be part of an "oral history" project for the local middle school. I turn up when asked to, but don't go seeking after chances to do so.

I live a long plane ride from Mass. My state isn't likely to pass any "y'all go ahead and get hitched" legislation soon. But the part of the state that I live in is a hotbed of liberals and homosexuals (and attachment parents.)

I think it's kind of like advocating breastfeeding. I don't criticize anybody for the choice she makes, but I talk in ways that assume everyone breastfeeds until her little one is all done. I've donated my milk when it would help.

I commute to a good paying, completely flexible houred job full of shall we say Republicans who are shall we say not fully supportive of same-gender marriage. I clamp my jaw shut, keep my internet screen on MDC (lurking), and take home my paycheck (and domestic partner benefits) to my beautiful and growing family.
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#24 of 33 Old 01-08-2004, 12:23 AM
 
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Formal activism as in member of an organization, no.

heck I'm honestly overwhelmed with my life at the moment. And I don't feel confident that I would be accepted.

I know, I will never know unles I try, but honestly I'm barely hanging on at the moment.
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#25 of 33 Old 01-08-2004, 01:03 AM
 
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Arduinna... I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't accept you or your aid in activism. Before I left California about 7 years ago I was very active in the battle to confirm recognition of marriages from other states. (This was around the time that it looked like Hawai'i might be the first state with queer marriage.) It was an interesting step thru the looking glass in some ways. Whenever I turned up at meeting, when I went to clubs and events to help with signature drives.. everyone assumed I was queer. I had to repeatedly 'come out' as straight. The funny thing was watching people have the same reaction that I know I have to realising someone was different than I had assumed. "Oh." A slight cock of the head... blink, blink.. nod. "Okay!" Just the few moments it takes to refile someone in your mental rolladex!

I ask in part because I am thinking about jumping into church politics where I attend regularly and work towards our church declaring itself "Open and Affirming"... which is to say, totally welcoming of Queers. Hang a rainbow banner, etc. I am very new to church attendance and know zero about councils and committees and how any of this stuff works. But I'm thinking, hey, we're a smallish church, full of good hearted people who I think would, in general, be open to this. All I probably need to do is put it to them... maybe they just haven't thought of it. So I asked my pastor. He said that a process like that, getting it through the appropriate committees, smoothing ruffled feathers, discussing, answering questions, defining terms and projecting ramifications, blah de blah blah... would probably take about a year if it goes moderately smoothly. I had no idea. I don't know if I have the energy. I don't know if I am the right person for the job as I have a tendency to get rather, well... hot under the collar... when I think people are being unreasonable. (Read 'when they won't just shut up and think what I told them they should think!' )
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#26 of 33 Old 01-08-2004, 01:29 AM
 
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I'm concerned about being accepted because our community center doesn't even include bi in their name, it's the gay and lesbian community center. So that has me scared to even call and ask if they have any support for bi people.

Dang, I barely have anyone to talk about this with as it is and I'm not that integrated myself as to who I am. Hell, I afraid to just go there, I think I'd break down just from seeing so many of us in one place.


I must commend you for your effort, I think it's a awesome idea. I can completely understand how overwhelming it must seem. Alot of steps.

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#27 of 33 Old 01-08-2004, 02:34 AM
 
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PM me the phone number and the time zone. I'll call. Perhaps it's just a center that's been there since before... you know, when even the queers themselves only addressed the issues of their majority and most visible membership. Signs can cost a fortune! But yes, I know that some gays look down their noses at bi's. I can understand your nerves.

As an aside, I hope no one minds my use of the word queer. I was at a meeting recently where the primary speaker was so good at saying "Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered People" all in one quick breath that I was amazed. My tongue gets tied and so do my fingers in this venue, so I stick to the shortest "big tent" word I know. If it bothers anyone I hope they will tell me.

Oh, and I haven't done anything commendation worthy yet. In fact I'm kinda playing Jonah... pretending I don't notice God tapping me on the shoulder, metaphorically. Hoping someone else will pick up the standard so I can just be the faithful sidekick. I'm not impressed with myself.
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#28 of 33 Old 01-08-2004, 07:30 AM
 
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what a sweet offer, but I won't make you make a long distance call just cause I'm a scared, I'll get to it I promise.

I'm fine with the terminology that has been used here so worries from me, thanks for asking though. *not saying I'm the final word for all*
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#29 of 33 Old 01-08-2004, 10:07 AM
 
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OK, now I get what you were on about to me the other day. I guess I am so used to being a freak, I didn't get how you were feeling so persecuted!



Tales from my life:

If it makes you feel any better, I consider myself about 70% straight, 30% same sex interested.

My 18 yo dd is completely bi.

My neice is a lesbian, from a really really fundie family to boot. She is a tough little dyke, with a lot of love still, somehow, in her heart.


We all took a nice trip to Northhampton last summer. (MA lesbian friendly town, maybe you've heard of it.)

The lead singer in my dh's rock band is a large middle-aged black woman whom we do not know whether she still has a penis or not. Beautiful voice.

My UU pastor is a lesbian (as well as having many other good qualities) in a commited relationship, and they had twins last spring and I helped them get bfing going.

Our church is "Welcoming" to GLBTs. Yeah, we have pagans too!

Now that I am a WOHM, in a flower shop, can I tell you how disappointed I am that there isn't a gay man working there? Well, heck, I didn't even know straight guys could arrange flowers! Ha! I keep hoping someone will show up. It just seems something is missing in the ambience.

March yourself on down to the queer org and I bet you will meet more bi people there than you think. My own personal theory is, everyone is bi, culture just beats it out of them. Then you get things like football and hair salons and women only Bible study and gyms. For "acceptable" intimate same sex contact, I mean.

I hope my exps make you feel a tiny bit less alone.
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#30 of 33 Old 01-08-2004, 10:55 AM
 
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Arduninna,

Not much time 'cause I gotta run to work, but I wouldn't let the name bug you. GLBT is a pain to try to express in simple plain understandable language. I'm old enough to remember when we were all "gay" (thus, "gay man") kinda like we use "queer" now.

Our glbt group has people in it that I think of as straight, though technically I think they are bi *and* poly. But of course with little ones, who has time??! Anyway, all I'm saying is that of course there are close minded bigots in queer organizations. The shall we say...oh you know...can't have them all.

If you run into one, you've just run into someone you want to avoid. And hey, I'd make the call for you as well!

Another thought, how about going to a women's music festival or gathering? Lots of married bi (and straight) women at those!!

Okay, really do gotta run....

Kama: Okay with me that you use queer. I can tell even over the internet it's not accompanied by a sneer. Now , really really I gotta kiss dd and dp good-bye and get out of here!
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