Quad (commited union of four: 2M & 2F). WDYT? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 01:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
DH was the one who actually came up with the idea of a quad (I wrote about it in more details two or three posts earlier). He just wants to make sure that our marriage is completely wonderful BEFORE we go for a quad (we were separated for 2.5 months this string-summer). But then again, as great as our relationship is now, our marriage will never be wonderful without this need of mine being met (and he will never be able to meet it).
From what you've posted, this sounds like it may not be possible b/c you're not getting what you need from your dh. And you can't have a completely wonderful marriage if one of you isn't getting what you need. I think you might want to seek some marriage and/or individual counseling to work through why you need the physical/sexual intensity that you are talking about, and then see if there are ways to get it while in your current marriage rather than going outside the marriage to get it. Which to me, sounds like trying to put a band-aid on something that needs surgery - and doesn't sound like it would fix the problem.

Then again, I'm a very monogamous person by nature, and I wouldn't be comfortable in an open or poly relationship.
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#62 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 01:51 PM
 
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Oh and I completely do not worry about dh trying to take the kids away from me. Neither me nor him would EVER try to do that to the kids and to each other. We both know that if we ever separate, the kids will be spanding equal amount of time with both of us.
I want to caution you about this way of thinking. Telling your dh repeatedly that you want to have sex with other people, and that he's not good enough for you, is not going to be good if it ever does come down to a custody battle.

No one ever knows what will happen in a custody battle until it begins - step over to single parenting and take a look if you want to - and people who were previously on very good terms can turn really nasty in court.

This is a very naive thing to think (the above quote), and don't just innately trust someone when you are telling them that they aren't good enough for you.

Also, I'm one person that doesn't believe staying together for the kids means you have to find other people to have sex with. I also don't believe in staying with someone "for the kids" - what does that mean? That you will be unhappy, your dh will be unhappy, and somehow magically your children will be happy? I think that happy parents are more likely to have happy children - even if their parents aren't together anymore.
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#63 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 01:56 PM
 
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No. You know no such thing.

You know that, at this moment, you think that if you split up, you would behave like rational, mature people and do the right thing by your children. It doesn't sound like you're husband is into this idea, and he may not be as generous in the course of splitting with you as you currently believe he would be.

People often act differently than they thought they would when they're in pain, and divorce is painful. Divorce also throws everything up in the air - kids, money, houses, lives. Everything you care about can be taken away, and everything can be used as a bargaining chip to get something else.

If you pursue the course you're talking about, you are taking a serious risk on destroying your marriage and losing your children.
I'll second that. My dh used to work in family law and when everything is sunshine and roses everyone says they will be nice and share the kids. The reality is, that the majority of those turn into completely hateful people with no regards to their kids because they are so focused on hurting the other parent when a divorce is on the line.
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#64 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 02:02 PM
 
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You know, having been in poly relationships, I do have to suppress a bit of a giggle when people assume that you have more sex in them. To be really blunt, maybe when you have no children and a job that doesn't require much of you and have time to party, I suppose (though it's not like non-poly people don't go out to party during the party seasons of their life). But actually I probably experienced LESS sex and MORE negotiation during my poly relationships than one on one.

I believe, reading between the lines, that perhaps the OP is looking for dominance play or acrobatics though. Now THAT is going to require a specific type of person, I agree. Not everyone can make themselves able to overpower someone who wants to struggle as hard as they can and some people's bodies simply don't move or aren't strong enough to tie themselves in knots or hold someone suspended in the air with one hand or whathaveyou.

I'm also confused as to what the OP wants, to be honest. A specific sexual experience/intensity? A polyfidelitous committed group relationship? Both? I think the chances for the first are actually quite good. Chances for the second, a little dicier (especially if one is expecting there to be "more" sex and doesn't have a good relationship dyad to begin with--problems are amplified, and will be repeated). But the third--that's like the holy grail, man. Not saying it can't be achieved, but you have to be careful, and patient.

I'd enourage the OP and her husband to try and connect with a local poly group (preferably a discussion group, not talking a sex club here) and tell folks they are new/exploring and would really like to connect IN A NON SEXUAL WAY at this point with a few oldbies to ask some questions and get some advice from people who are living it and hopefully have lived it for a long time. I don't know if their answers will be appreciated or heard, but...it might save everyone a lot of heartache. There's frankly probably no kink that a poly group hasn't seen before collectively, it's a safe place to discuss needs that are non-mainstream, but people who have lived it for years will be able to give you some honest, healthy mentoring if you're lucky.

I know I would probably be far more messed up had I not had very strong, blunt, but very loving mentorship from women I met in the poly community. I also saw older couples taking younger couples under their wing too.
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#65 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 02:15 PM
 
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I want to caution you about this way of thinking. Telling your dh repeatedly that you want to have sex with other people, and that he's not good enough for you, is not going to be good if it ever does come down to a custody battle.

No one ever knows what will happen in a custody battle until it begins - step over to single parenting and take a look if you want to - and people who were previously on very good terms can turn really nasty in court.

This is a very naive thing to think (the above quote), and don't just innately trust someone when you are telling them that they aren't good enough for you.

Also, I'm one person that doesn't believe staying together for the kids means you have to find other people to have sex with. I also don't believe in staying with someone "for the kids" - what does that mean? That you will be unhappy, your dh will be unhappy, and somehow magically your children will be happy? I think that happy parents are more likely to have happy children - even if their parents aren't together anymore.
That's for sure. I mean, everyone loves each other to begin with, right? You don't think the person you love, and who loves you, will turn on you. But thousands of people can tell you that it can and does happen. You and your husband are no exception. I'll admit, your husband sounds tolerant, or... something... because he lets you tell him everything that's wrong with him and then listens while you tell him how you want to be with other people, etc. But that does not mean the day won't come when he's heard/seen enough and comes to resent it, and may feel that if HE wants the stability of a monagamous union, then the children also would fare better that way.

Separation and divorce, in and of themselves, are not what drive children into therapy - it's how those things are handled. If you and your H are good as friends and can cooperate and be flexible as far as visitation arrangements go - while keeping in mind their need for stability and routine, and speak positively of the other parent - then your children can still enjoy doing things as a family despite having parents in two different homes. But having two parents in the same home, with one of those parents so openly dissatisfied with the other that she needs to bring in outside partners to live in the home is not exactly stable or routine, and it will certainly do something to the family unit you have now that your children will notice and be affected by.
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#66 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 05:35 PM
 
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I mean this gently but you said that your children took it hard when you and your dh seperated and are now in therapy.

How do you think the situation that you are proposing would impact your children emotionally? I think that you are taking a huge risk and gambling w/your childrens' emotional well being.

And for what it's worth, I don't believe that anyone (or two, or three, etc.) can make you happy. That comes from within. If you are looking for happiness from other people you will never find it.

Good luck to you.

Wife to dh, Mommy to ds1 12/2002, ds2 9/2005, and ds3 9/2008.
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#67 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I mean this gently but you said that your children took it hard when you and your dh seperated and are now in therapy.

How do you think the situation that you are proposing would impact your children emotionally? I think that you are taking a huge risk and gambling w/your childrens' emotional well being.

And for what it's worth, I don't believe that anyone (or two, or three, etc.) can make you happy. That comes from within. If you are looking for happiness from other people you will never find it.

Good luck to you.
Sorry, but happiness from within and physical needs have nothing to do with each other .
Of course kids will only be informed about the whole spectrum of a quad relationship if we ever find the two peope what we really love (and they love us and each other) and want to spend the rest of our life with. Until then kids would be told that they are just our friends. I personally see no problem there, they have their mom and dad together, having "friends" in the house won't even make them think twice that there is something unusual going on. I don't see how it can be harmful for the kids.
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#68 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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We were separated for 2.5 months this summer and thought we were going to divorce (it was a sudden unexpected death--a rock climbing accident--of our mitual friend that showed us how fragile life is and how nothing should be taken for granded and also seeing how our separation was affecting the kids is what made us change our mind and get back together). Anyway, my point is I do know that neither of us would ever try to take the kids away from each other if we do decide to separate.
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#69 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 06:05 PM
 
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I guess I just want to stick up for being fair to your partner here.

My DH and I discussed polyamory pretty seriously about oh gosh - 9 years ago now. A lot of our friends were and it seemed so lovely from the outside.

I was the one who was a bit more keen on it but it seemed like we might both be open...and then when I got more serious, he absolutely slammed the brakes on it. He was really, really clear that it was not for him. He was also pretty kind in understand my feelings - but he made it clear if I acted on them, that was the day he would be gone.

After a lot of reflection I stayed and it was really the right decision on so many levels. It was right to stick to our original, monogamous vows. It was right to be willing to give up on the bedroom fantasies we weren't going to have to focus on the ones we were. And I got my best friend and partner still in my life and our relationship, while we've gone through really hard times, has continued to deepen and improve overall.

Watching other people I see that there are people for whom polyamory or polyfidelity works - and then there's everyone else. I'm kind of glad not to have spent that much time in the 'dating' phase of our lives and to have avoided all the hours and hours and hours of relationship maintenance, negotiation, and frankly in some cases drama. I mean we did a lot of renovating instead.

I think what I learned to is that there is a LOT of value in respecting your partner's needs and giving to him. I hear a lot about your needs but are you also listening -- truly listening -- to his.

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#70 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I just want to stick up for being fair to your partner here.

My DH and I discussed polyamory pretty seriously about oh gosh - 9 years ago now. A lot of our friends were and it seemed so lovely from the outside.

I was the one who was a bit more keen on it but it seemed like we might both be open...and then when I got more serious, he absolutely slammed the brakes on it. He was really, really clear that it was not for him. He was also pretty kind in understand my feelings - but he made it clear if I acted on them, that was the day he would be gone.

After a lot of reflection I stayed and it was really the right decision on so many levels. It was right to stick to our original, monogamous vows. It was right to be willing to give up on the bedroom fantasies we weren't going to have to focus on the ones we were. And I got my best friend and partner still in my life and our relationship, while we've gone through really hard times, has continued to deepen and improve overall.

Watching other people I see that there are people for whom polyamory or polyfidelity works - and then there's everyone else. I'm kind of glad not to have spent that much time in the 'dating' phase of our lives and to have avoided all the hours and hours and hours of relationship maintenance, negotiation, and frankly in some cases drama. I mean we did a lot of renovating instead.

I think what I learned to is that there is a LOT of value in respecting your partner's needs and giving to him. I hear a lot about your needs but are you also listening -- truly listening -- to his.
you are right, I have not been focusing on his needs much in the recent years. but as weird as this statement may sounds to some people, it is my needs that i need to focus on in order for this marriage to work. my husband (and his needs) is not a threat to this marriage, I am . and sadly, as long as my needs aren't met I continue to be a threat to this relationship.
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#71 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 06:41 PM
 
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Also, I'm one person that doesn't believe staying together for the kids means you have to find other people to have sex with. I also don't believe in staying with someone "for the kids" - what does that mean? That you will be unhappy, your dh will be unhappy, and somehow magically your children will be happy? I think that happy parents are more likely to have happy children - even if their parents aren't together anymore.

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#72 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 07:49 PM
 
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they have their mom and dad together, having "friends" in the house won't even make them think twice that there is something unusual going on. I don't see how it can be harmful for the kids.
The more I read, the less I understand. Your children aren't doing well, your marriage is in tatters, and you feel the answer is to put lots of energy into new sexual relationships.

Your kids need you right now.

You've got enough to deal with at home, and with such young children, I really feel that's where your head needs to be. I think that your whole fantasy about a quad is just something to think about so you don't have to try to deal with what is going on right now in your family, kinda like how some people drink or other people overeat. It's a way to numb yourself.

I don't really have any feeling about poly relationships -- they aren't for me, and I've never seen one that's lasted for long, but I don't really care what other adults do.

However, it isn't going to fix any of the things in your life that aren't working, and may make things much worse.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#73 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 08:53 PM
 
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yulia, I think if you can imagine going onto a really mainstream parenting forum and asking what they think about breastfeeding and co-sleeping till 6 years old, and for advice to make it work, you would probably get a similar level of negative responses. the idea of poly relationships are HUGELY confronting for most people and they will react accordingly.

If that's what you want/ need, it can work for you, but only if you're really open and honest with your DH and all involved about everything, and clear boundaries are established.

I'm curious why the Quad idea - it sounds like what you really want is a male partner for certain activities. Is the married couple a way to provide your DH with some sort of consolation or balancing with another woman in the relationship while you explore intensity with a man? Is he really into this? Is that really the formation that will work? Are you open to other possibilities, like perhaps just having a low-key boyfriend that you see occasionally to fulfil those desires? or casual encounters?
Have you straight up told your DH "this is how I feel and this is what I need, can you work with me to find a way to fulfil that?"

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#74 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 09:19 PM
 
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Sorry, but happiness from within and physical needs have nothing to do with each other .
Of course kids will only be informed about the whole spectrum of a quad relationship if we ever find the two peope what we really love (and they love us and each other) and want to spend the rest of our life with. Until then kids would be told that they are just our friends. I personally see no problem there, they have their mom and dad together, having "friends" in the house won't even make them think twice that there is something unusual going on. I don't see how it can be harmful for the kids.
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We were separated for 2.5 months this summer and thought we were going to divorce (it was a sudden unexpected death--a rock climbing accident--of our mitual friend that showed us how fragile life is and how nothing should be taken for granded and also seeing how our separation was affecting the kids is what made us change our mind and get back together). Anyway, my point is I do know that neither of us would ever try to take the kids away from each other if we do decide to separate.
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you are right, I have not been focusing on his needs much in the recent years. but as weird as this statement may sounds to some people, it is my needs that i need to focus on in order for this marriage to work. my husband (and his needs) is not a threat to this marriage, I am . and sadly, as long as my needs aren't met I continue to be a threat to this relationship.
I'll address each thing you said in the order they are bolded.

1. Having "friends" in the house will make your children wonder - especially if there are fights, sleepovers, etc. Children pick up on lots more than we give them credit for - why do you think the tension caused by your temp break-up has them in therapy? Why not divorce and focus on having as easy a transition possible for you children? Why not focus on making the situation at hand - your marriage falling to pieces - the best it can be for them? Why are you focusing so much on YOUR needs instead of your childrens needs?

2. You may believe that, but when it comes down to who has the kids most often (and 50/50 is a pretty rare thing, although its getting more common), you are giving your dh LOTS of ammo in a court battle. LOTS. See the previous comment - you tending to your sexual needs over your children's needs will NOT gain you primary custody, but it WILL gain your dh primary custody. And my ex told me repeatedly, for over a year, that he would never try to take my son away from me. 1st thing he did after our break-up? Call CPS. Yeah, so much for all those promises.

3. You not focusing on his needs means you are being selfish - relationships, IME, require lots of selflessness. lots. If your dh isn't putting in effort that you need him to, see a sex therapist or something (yes, they do exist).

4. You're right. You refusing to accept your dh's needs and tend to them is threatening your marriage. Refusing to do a give and take is threatening your marriage.

5. About the very last sentence (that I didn't bold since it would have run into the previous comment), you need to find a way to meet your needs in a way that doesn't threaten your marriage if you want it to work. If the sex is so vanilla that you can't figure out ways to fix it other than by bringing other people into the relationship (or dating, open marriage, whatever you want to call it), then you need to be up front and end the relationship.
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#75 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 09:52 PM
 
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you are right, I have not been focusing on his needs much in the recent years. but as weird as this statement may sounds to some people, it is my needs that i need to focus on in order for this marriage to work. my husband (and his needs) is not a threat to this marriage, I am . and sadly, as long as my needs aren't met I continue to be a threat to this relationship.
Well you may have conflicting needs - because it sounds like his need is for monogamy.

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#76 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 09:59 PM
 
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it's easier said than done. plus as i said earlier i do want to this this intensity in my sex life as well.
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without going much into details I want to clarify that i want a very specific kind of intensity with a man who is physically much stronger than I am (that also means more skilled martial arts-wise than I am because strength per se does not mean much to me since I am pretty skilled at martial arts at this point). So this is not something dh would ever be able to give me...sadly ...and he understands that because before we moved back in together we had a very honest conversation about it.
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So much of sex and intimacy is mental, and physical strength is not always needed to be "strong" in bed. You both accept that he could "never" fill this need, but I wonder if that is really true.
:


To all of these thoughts:


I recently approached my husband with the realization that I thought he wanted more excitement out of our sex life, and I wanted to give that to him and also wanted to break out of the vanilla (enjoyable, but vanilla) rut we were in - he was shocked, and thrilled because it was true but he didn't want to hurt me or freak me out . So we had a really frank conversation about what we both wanted, and what each of us were willing to try/compromise on on and do for each other, and most importantly what our limits were. I have never been very comfortable talking about sex so *this* part was actually the hardest for me, the talking about it. After this series of conversations (not aimed at what I was not providing to him that he desired, but on what I COULD do that he liked, and what he could do for me as well) we have been doing some new/different stuff, and I cannot BELIEVE
1) How much I am enjoying things I never thought I would (and I mean truly enjoying, I couldn't fake this if I wanted to)
and
2) How great it has been for our marriage not only on an intimate connection level, but on a general communication level. There's a new level of trust there that wasn't there before, becasue we tackled it together.



So, I challenge you:
OK, you migth not get EXACTLY the kind of physical intensity/dominance that your innermost desire exactly wants, but I'm about 99.9% positive that you two could come up with some way together to get you something closer to what you want. It might not be ideal, but creepers perfection is so unrealistic; give him a real, REAL chance. Even if he can't overpower you on his own or whatever, there are a million things available to restrain/dominate you that could work out if you get creative.

Thennnnn, you find an platonic exercise buddy for rock climbing or whatever other extreme sports you want to undertake. Doing activities like that together with a partner is fine if you both dig it, but I can't believe that it can't just be a friend situation and still be fulfilling. I think actually that having (platonic) friends for pursuits separate from your spouse is a really great idea. DH and I each have activities we do without the other, and frankly we have no interest in the other person's thing. We share plenty of common interests, and a few separate ones. I htink expecting your partner to live up to all your ideals is unfair and a setup for failure. Happiness and satisfaction can be reached long before ideal is attained, IMO.

I totally get you wanting more. I really do. And MAN am I glad that I had that initially very awkward for me conversation with my husband, because this is the best in the 15 years we've been together. But from your posts, it really doesn't seem like you're giving him a real chance to even try to meet you halfway on his own.

AND, I don't think you should need to get *exactly* what you want to be happy and fulfilled in the marriage....for that particular issue, I think that's all about you and frankly needing to grow up a little. If he gives (even way out of his comfort zone) and meets you halfway on things, and it's still not enough, then this is about you , not about him not being able to meet your needs.


FWIW: without getting in to a ton of detail, we have added some pretty inttense things, things I "never" thought I would want to, be able to do, let alone enjoy - and I am enjoying the HECK out of them, FOR REAL. Don't give up on him until you try, really try.

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#77 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 10:07 PM
 
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I can't help but think you have an unrealistically rosy view of what this quad situation would be like. Many experienced people here are trying to tell you that adding more people is going to multiply the complications with your interpersonal dynamics but you aren't hearing them.

The fact is you can't even realistically contemplate this plan right now because your husband just isn't on board. If he was into it and your relationship was solid you could consider exploring, but without those first two qualifications being met you have no chance.

So you need another option. Without being too explicit I would suggest you get more creative. Fantasy is all about imagination and participation, not about reality, so it doesn't need to conform to the facts of your usual interactions or your relative strengths. Right now you have a fantasy about adding extra members to your marriage and the reality of that will probably be about as close to what you imagine as fantasies usually are. Even if the very specific partner you envision exists, is available, is acceptable to you and your partner, has a partner who is acceptable to you and your partner, and is looking for the kind of relationship you are offering, it would still be really complicated. Or, you can try putting some of that imaginative energy into the relationship you have. It might be a place to start anyway.

Good luck.


editing to add: I see I posted at the same time as "the4ofus" and I just wanted to say: "what she said"

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#78 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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yulia, I think if you can imagine going onto a really mainstream parenting forum and asking what they think about breastfeeding and co-sleeping till 6 years old, and for advice to make it work, you would probably get a similar level of negative responses. the idea of poly relationships are HUGELY confronting for most people and they will react accordingly.

If that's what you want/ need, it can work for you, but only if you're really open and honest with your DH and all involved about everything, and clear boundaries are established.

I'm curious why the Quad idea - it sounds like what you really want is a male partner for certain activities. Is the married couple a way to provide your DH with some sort of consolation or balancing with another woman in the relationship while you explore intensity with a man? Is he really into this? Is that really the formation that will work? Are you open to other possibilities, like perhaps just having a low-key boyfriend that you see occasionally to fulfil those desires? or casual encounters?
Have you straight up told your DH "this is how I feel and this is what I need, can you work with me to find a way to fulfil that?"
Thanks for the encouragement and understanding. I'm not sure if you had a chance to read all of my posts, but bottom line is that yes, I am VERY open with dh about my needs (he knows them in graphic details and therefore, he knows that he can never provide it. He is good at sex--vanila sex--which is satisfying physically most of the time, but not emotionally because it lacks some other components and the intensity I want). Also it does not have to be another couple, it is a matter of fact we both would rather prefer two people (male and female) who had no previous connection (since we think it is impotrant to not have "primary" spouses, but all members of the quad being equally attached to each other.
Yes, seeing someone on the side would work for me and that was my proposal to dh before we moved back in together after our 2.5 months long separation this summer. But it TOTALLY did not work for him and instead HE proposed the idea of a quad which he thought was very interesting and exciting (like me he has no previous experience in this area though). I liked the idea too, so this was supposed to be our solution. Two males and two females looks like a much more balanced union to both of us. As special as it would be for me to have another male spouse it would be also very special for me to have a sister-spose-like relationship with a woman. Also I have just an overage sex drive, so even IF my husband agreed to go for a tree-way union with just another man (which he would not agree, but I am just saying IF for the sake of an example) I would not want to go for it because it would put to much pressure on me as far as meeting their needs. So 2 and 2 looks like the most balanced ratio to both of us.
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#79 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Miss Chris View Post
I can't help but think you have an unrealistically rosy view of what this quad situation would be like. Many experienced people here are trying to tell you that adding more people is going to multiply the complications with your interpersonal dynamics but you aren't hearing them.

The fact is you can't even realistically contemplate this plan right now because your husband just isn't on board. If he was into it and your relationship was solid you could consider exploring, but without those first two qualifications being met you have no chance.

So you need another option. Without being too explicit I would suggest you get more creative. Fantasy is all about imagination and participation, not about reality, so it doesn't need to conform to the facts of your usual interactions or your relative strengths. Right now you have a fantasy about adding extra members to your marriage and the reality of that will probably be about as close to what you imagine as fantasies usually are. Even if the very specific partner you envision exists, is available, is acceptable to you and your partner, has a partner who is acceptable to you and your partner, and is looking for the kind of relationship you are offering, it would still be really complicated. Or, you can try putting some of that imaginative energy into the relationship you have. It might be a place to start anyway.

Good luck.


editing to add: I see I posted at the same time as "the4ofus" and I just wanted to say: "what she said"
I hear everything you guys say about possibly making the marriage more complex and difficult by adding more people...I really do. At the same time, I really really want for that marriage to work and not just "hang together for the kids' sake", but to be a happy wonderful relationship. And I don't think it can be if everytime I have a free time to think or to dream my mind goes into my unmet needs. And no, there is no half-way of meeting them by dh. I don't play, I HATE playing and pretending, this has been my personality ever since I remember myself: I don't lie (blunt, honest, outspoken and non-faking to the extreme of it. I need things to be REAL or they turn me off completely. I hate playing and pretending, I can not tell you strong enough what a total turn off it is for me ). Plus I am very bossy and dominant as it is and I would never put up with being dominated by anyone, but a man I KNOW is much stronger and more advanced martial arts-wise than I am, someone I have no chance against. Ok, now I'm really going into details ...
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#80 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 10:41 PM
 
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and still, I think you'd get more supportive and helpful responses (more realistic ones too) in another section.
Personally, I think hearing experience from people who aren't morally opposed to poly relationships from the outset would be more useful than having to defend your feelings. You can get more of an idea of how it can work, how it never works, and just support in general, no matter what your choices and how they work out for you personally.

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#81 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 10:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majikfaerie View Post
and still, I think you'd get more supportive and helpful responses (more realistic ones too) in another section.
Personally, I think hearing experience from people who aren't morally opposed to poly relationships from the outset would be more useful than having to defend your feelings. You can get more of an idea of how it can work, how it never works, and just support in general, no matter what your choices and how they work out for you personally.
are you talking about the 'queer parenting' section? you are probably right. I onlt became aware of this subforum after I opened this thread, unfortunately.
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#82 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Something dh told me a couple of days ago when we were heading back home after couple conceling. He said that while he doesn't know when and if he is ready for the quad, he has a feeling that the getting ready prosess will go like that:
1st stage: first seeing our marriage improving, going strong and us being happy together without other people
2 nd stage: enjoying this happy marriage (after years of having marrital issues) and not wanting to share me with anyone.
3rd stage: being finally ready to share me with the other two people (aka going for the quad).
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#83 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 10:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
And no, there is no half-way of meeting them by dh. ...
then, since he isn't into this, I think you should be realistic about the fact that it could end your marriage, and he may try to take the kids. (After you talk your husband into watching you have sex with another man, he may be a VERY different person than he is right now).

Those are the stakes. If you are going to go forward, do it with your eyes wide open.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#84 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 11:46 PM
 
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I personally see no problem there, they have their mom and dad together, having "friends" in the house won't even make them think twice that there is something unusual going on.
Really? Because I think from your descriptions:

Quote:
Two males and two females looks like a much more balanced union to both of us. As special as it would be for me to have another male spouse it would be also very special for me to have a sister-spose-like relationship with a woman.
The kids would absolutely know that there is something going on. The question is if you're ok with that. If you and your dh are both fine with the kids knowing that you have a different sort of relationship (and the kids' friends knowing, and their teachers, and anyone else the kids would talk to about it), that's fine. The kid thing is handled.

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#85 of 129 Old 09-25-2010, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post
Really? Because I think from your descriptions:



The kids would absolutely know that there is something going on. The question is if you're ok with that. If you and your dh are both fine with the kids knowing that you have a different sort of relationship (and the kids' friends knowing, and their teachers, and anyone else the kids would talk to about it), that's fine. The kid thing is handled.
of course we are 100% fine with kids knowing everything especially once we get really close. What I mean is that we will not be introducing the "friends" to the kids as "part of our family and therefore their second pair of parents" untill and if we decide to commit with these two people for life.
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#86 of 129 Old 09-26-2010, 12:30 AM
 
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I am not morally opposed to the concept, but i am VERY opposed to people entering into this sort of a situation without having a healthy jumping off point. You and your husband do not have that, and will not have that until you do a whole LOT of hard work.

You need to understand why it is that you have these needs that you feel he can't meet.

I think you owe it to yourselves, your kids, and PARTICULARLY to any future/potential partners to consider a lot of therapy- both couples and individual- to gain a better understanding of the dynamics at work here. (Make sure to seek out a poly-friendly therapist, of course.)

I guess, if your greater goal is to make this work, you need to put in the time to make things work within the relationship you already have so that you don't feel something is missing and a need is unmet.

Also, it really sounds like your kids need rock-solid stability for the time being, and you can't create that for them by searching out a new life situation for yourself. I would expect that you'll need to look at this as a goal for years down the road, as for right now, your first goal needs to be to parent your children- completely and reassuringly within a stable framework, and ideally within the marriage and family structure they already know.

Make new platonic friends to do martial arts and climb rocks with, and bring that energy back to your marriage and family. If, after the dust has settled and your kids are back on solid footing, your and your husband wish to look at your options, then go right ahead. However, this forum is about how your partnership impacts your parenting, and I thing you are neglecting that role if you go forward with this now, or in the near future.
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#87 of 129 Old 09-26-2010, 12:33 AM - Thread Starter
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And one more thing. Perhaps I deserve to be called a selfish b***, but my intentions are not so selfish (when you look at the big picture). My heart is in the right place, badly wishing to save this family, this marriage and not just save it, but make it into a wonderful one. Divorce is an easy way out and I am not interested in it. After the tragic death of out mutial friend this summer I've realized just how fortunate I am to have what I have: two wonderful kids and a good, very smart, passionate husband who most of the time understands me before I even finish the sentence. I really want this family to thrive and the only way I see it happening is, unfortunately, by being selfish about certan things.

My husband put those two videos of our family together during the two months when we were separated. I watch them (and cry over it) almost every day now. I feel so overwhelmingly lucky to have my family. So please if you want to suggest divorcing, watch those videos first (because such advices are really not helpful at all)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT9w1Cgxmhc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf18W4p06gk
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#88 of 129 Old 09-26-2010, 01:00 AM
 
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The only reason I mentioned leaving him was because any suggestion made on compromising the nature of the dominance was flatly rejected by you...based on what you're writing, you're not willing to do any giving at this point, in trying to find things other than the experience you outlined to fulfil your needs - being selfish about this is not going to save your marriage. It might make you sexually fulfilled and happy sexually, but a tthe cost of the happiness of your husband, and by extension your children when they sense the discord - and they WILL sense the discord. Part of marriage is compromise. If you're unwilling to consider compromising your desires, or get some counseling to figure out why, I don't see what your options really are. I think trying to talk your DH into this by guilt or whatever is the worst idea out of any option.

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#89 of 129 Old 09-26-2010, 02:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
I've realized just how fortunate I am to have what I have: two wonderful kids and a good, very smart, passionate husband who most of the time understands me before I even finish the sentence. I really want this family to thrive
My advice is that you get into therapy and try to figure out why, if what you just wrote is true, that the only way you see your self staying in your marriage is if he lets you have sex with other men. Something is really, really off.

When people value their relationships and want their family to thrive, they put their time and energy into that rather than making demands that are hurtful and completely out of line with their marriage vows.

but everything has pros and cons  shrug.gif

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#90 of 129 Old 09-26-2010, 02:14 AM
 
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The only arrangement like that that I have known exploded hideously - the fact that the children were never put first in the arrangement was a big turn-off for me too.
Which makes poly arrangements no different than any other marriage, statistically- if you think about it. 50% of marriages ending in divorce and most of the endings are pretty ugly.

Being in a poly relationship requires a lot more work than monogamy (as there are more people!), but it can work and I know plenty that find it rewarding.

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I also say find the poly families thread.
Glad someone posted a link for you. There are also resources and organizations on the web for you to google.

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Originally Posted by EviesMom View Post
I've been poly for 13 years, so I know what the terms are. I've never had any interest in living with anyone besides DH. Living with others is a different kind of dynamic, and I think of it as having to do with housing/parenting expectations versus those of open marriage situations.
That's funny, as I would not be interested in a long-term relationship that didn't ultimately end up with us living together! Whatever floats your boat! LOL

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