How do you talk to your kids about politicized homophobia and bigotry? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 143 Old 06-14-2011, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm wondering specifically about people like, oh, say Pat Robertson?
 

 

How do you explain to your kids when someone espouses such hatred for your family?

 


What would you do if an organization you support, and whose goals you generally agree with, supports a political or religious figure who promotes homophobia and hatred?

 

 

This recently came up for our family, and I'm wondering what you would do in a similar circumstance.

 

Thanks!  


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#2 of 143 Old 06-14-2011, 11:36 AM
 
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lurk.gif I haven't experienced anything (yet) but am interested to hear from others... I suspect I will need to be armed with ways to deal with hatred/homophobia someday.

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#3 of 143 Old 06-14-2011, 05:31 PM
 
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Hmmm....we talk about things like this a lot, though I'm not sure, not knowing specifics, about the example that you bring up.

 

We've encountered people we know and like or people from places that we know well and like being homophobic and have explained much of this to Q. Generally, we talk about peoples' different beliefs and what I see as the nuance between those folks having those beliefs and me/us believing they are wrong because they are hurtful to people, discriminate, seem to think that hate is okay, etc. We talk a lot about being queer as an identity and how it's not okay to discriminate based on any identity. But we have also recently talked some about how some people's religion tells them (or folks interpret their religion as telling them) that being gay/queer is wrong. Q recently said, "If Jesus were really god, he'd say it was wrong to hate gay people." Or something to that effect. I've explained that, as a non-religious person, much of what I understand about Christianity in particular is about love, care, and openness, and how that doesn't jive with not accepting someone's identity. 

 

I think the layers of this get deeper and deeper as kids get older.

 

So, I'm thinking I'm perhaps not answering what you're asking. Bottom line is that I try to explain a belief or stance, explain why it is different than our belief or stance, and then try to be honest about the effects of those beliefs on me, our family, etc.: "It really hurts me or makes me mad when...." "I don't think it's right to say this about certain groups of people..." "I don't have the same belief as X....and in fact that belief is hurtful to me because...." I'll admit that sometimes I also just say, "...and personally I think it's wrong or hateful to have that belief." (maybe that last bit is wrong of me, but heck, it's what I believe, right? (hoping for no flames here....)

 

Hoping this might help a wee bit....


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#4 of 143 Old 06-14-2011, 05:51 PM
 
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We try our hardest to follow the money and avoid companies with business practices that actively work to undermine our family. I wish more people would do that more often. I'm sometimes surprised at who is working against us.

 

We have no qualms with voting with our feet, and making it known to the people who aren't supportive of us. I've been struggling recently with some of the posts on mothering's facebook page for this very reason.

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#5 of 143 Old 06-15-2011, 04:01 AM
 
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My kids don't believe that people like that exist.  At least they didn't a year ago.  Last year before pride we had a big gay talk.  I had to equate gay marriage to to other civil rights struggles before something finally clicked (they have board books about Dr. Martin Luthar King).  We live in a rural area and they're not exposed to that kind of stuff.  Recently my son read Spedteacher's "hate is not a family value" and he missed the "not."  He was very upset that anyone would think hate is a family value until I pointed out the "not."  That led to a very large discussion about family values, "family values" and all those televangelists.  I pointed out that a lot of people say things to get attention and if they really believe those things I have pity on them.  What sad sad people.  We have talked about the religious aspect of it all as well as the politics (we live in a pretty hostile state).  What did I say?  I'm not really sure, it was all off the cuff.


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#6 of 143 Old 06-16-2011, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Please make your views known to MDC.

 

The entire conversation is happening in TAO and the thread is here http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1317536/mothering-supports-racist-homophobic-diatribe/40#post_16507262


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#7 of 143 Old 06-16-2011, 09:39 PM
 
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this is a really great question.  Here in Seattle WBC is going to be protesting at the Pride Picnic, a family event.  Luckily I'm working that week so we can't go, but we would want to go if possible.  The thing is, there is NO WAY I'm going to expose my kids to people like WBC.  They simply don't need to know how much hatred is in the world.  The longer I can keep that ugliness away from them the happier I will be.  When they're emotionally ready we'll have a chat.  It helps that we are not sending them to school and have a very supportive community around us.  I just don't see that they need to know that people hate their mama and mommy.  Not at age four (DD is too young for it to matter).  I'm very very protective of them and I realize not everyone may agree, but there's no way I'm letting them near that kind of hatred.


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#8 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 04:55 AM
 
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Disco, It's not WBC (wow, y'all must feel so important to get *them*eyesroll.gif.  My kids vaguely know they exist.  They picketed a coal mine accident and now everyone in this area thinks they're extremist  morons, not just the queer community.) but we have a group who pickets and yells at pretty much every event (pride, halloween, campus, basically anywhere there are "sinners").  Last year the we all marched in the parade and the group that likes to protest was there as usual.  There are women on motorcycles who run up and down the length of the parade all the time.  Not sure if it's for security or what, but it happens.  Anyway, a few of them were parked right in front of the protesters and every time they would open their mouths someone would rev the bike and you couldn't hear a word.  It was awesome.  So the kids didn't even know it happened (and like I said, they're kind of a fixture) and the adults didn't have to hear a word.  It was lovely.  They don't come into the festival itself.  I don't think they could be sure of their safety.  I totally agree that I'm not ready for my kids to know about quite how ugly the world can be.


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#9 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 05:48 AM
 
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thanks for posting that link, papa. I didn't realize this was going on due to sticking mainly to just a few forums. that'll teach me, ey?! if things don't change around here soon then i'm gonna have to leave this community. what a bummer.

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#10 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wehrli View Post

thanks for posting that link, papa. I didn't realize this was going on due to sticking mainly to just a few forums. that'll teach me, ey?! if things don't change around here soon then i'm gonna have to leave this community. what a bummer.


Yeah, I had no idea about a lot of things because I mostly stuck to this forum and my DDC.  Since the MDC reformat, things have gotten really ugly around here.  


 


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#11 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 09:10 AM
 
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Sigh and moan.  That thread has now been closed in a most offensive, unceremonious way, which makes me *that* much closer to saying so long to MDC permanently.  Is there anywhere else we can go and still attract new folks?  I don't want to lose the friends I've made here over the years.  So sad.  So horrible. I'm with papa and wherli on this one. 


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#12 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 09:55 AM
 
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I'm looking around for a place we could go and still attract but it's not looking very good. there are many boards with AP/NFL forums but it's such a narrow space to be in. I fear it would be a much smaller community. anyone else have ideas? I don't want to loose all of you, I consider this my "tribe" of like minded folks... but I really must stand my ground and not support a place making such despicable changes.

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#13 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 10:10 AM
 
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nevermind

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#14 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 11:17 AM
 
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Just tried to post a response. Frustrated to be shut out of the dia/mono-logue, particularly when there's been no apology. Seems like a HUGE slap in the face to our whole little sub-community over here in QP, as well as to so many others.....

 

I'll say that, though I've been mostly quiet in the past months, I do like the idea of a space like this/this space to look to, knowing there will be some similar-minded folks waiting to think about and listen to my questions and concerns.


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#15 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 11:20 AM
 
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I am like Megin. I haven't been around much, but all of this is just getting out of hand on MDC.

 

Would creating a FB group (that members need to ask to join) be too far out of the forum realm? It wouldn't attract new people like this forum does, though. 

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#16 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 11:33 AM
 
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I'd be down with a FB group... otherwise there's queerparenting.com forums. i found them from a quick google search but I don't know what their viewsand/or affiliations are. I'm just beside myself thinking of loosing this space though... greensad.gif

re FB... we could always "recruit" members... wink1.gif

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#17 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 11:44 AM
 
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sorry, it's http://queerparent.com/forums/

also, I'm part of a private group on FB and it works pretty well... there's about 700 of us.

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#18 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 12:12 PM
 
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Keep me posted where you go!! I'm definitely out of here but would love to keep in touch.

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#19 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 12:35 PM
 
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Oh Poop. What a mess. greensad.gif Let me know if you all decide to head somewhere else.

(Off topic: FTMPapa: Is Elise really 8 months old now? Wow! How are you and she doing?)

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#20 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She is 8.5 mos!  We are doing SO well!

 

She is thriving on donor milk and anything and everything that isn't nailed down, she loves solid food and eats everything, it's kind of crazy.

 

And she just started pulling herself up to standing and she's cruising.  


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#21 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 09:49 PM
 
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Papa! Great to see you about. I'm sorry it's under such shitty circumstances. So great to hear that your beautiful babe is thriving.

What a disgrace! I've just read through the whole linked thread. So, no formal apology, right? Unbelievable.

If a fb group starts up, please, count me in.

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#22 of 143 Old 06-17-2011, 10:17 PM
 
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The formal apology was a big fat LOCK. I know, right? And then locking the AIDS denialism thread in TAO. Sort of cannot believe what I am learning about this place!!


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#23 of 143 Old 06-18-2011, 05:13 AM
 
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I don't know if I can provide and answers or comfort here but I thought I'd post some thoughts for you guys just in case. There is so much going on, seemingly all at once and its hard to sit here with the best of intentions yet to see so much ill intent being assigned to mods and admin (in general).

 

Whether or not people believe this, everyone is doing the best they can. Many of us agree that an apology is needed and I wish people could understand that just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean that it will never happen.

 

I say this understanding that this beloved forum Queer Parenting must have been the hardest hit by the Pat Roberston debacle on facebook. I'm so sorry you guys.

We love you and want you to stay around grouphug.gif

 

 

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#24 of 143 Old 06-18-2011, 05:18 AM
 
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could someone give my a synopsis of what went down.  I read the thread but I couldn't really grasp how all this started.  Thx.


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#25 of 143 Old 06-18-2011, 05:36 AM
 
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okay, I just read the AIDS denialism thread.  Wow, wow, wow.  I had no I idea that Peggy O'Mara had that view on HIV/AIDS.  Working with people who have  HIV/AIDS, I have to say that's pure insanity.  It's a quite real disease that people are dying from in this country.  Oh, I could go on and on and ON.  And the reasons for shutting it down were complete BS.  People should know the core values at MDS, and if AIDS denialism is one of them, daylight it.  

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#26 of 143 Old 06-18-2011, 11:40 AM
 
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Pat Robertson: An article was posted under the Mothering UN in the Adoptive/Foster Parent forum. It was a weird and messed up thing to post there anyway, because the article was about how some lady working at an orphanage loved how the orphans called her mama. Then at the end of the article there was a giant blue link to donate to the org. When I got there there were already a few posts from adoptive parents questioning why Mothering had posted an article that was basically an ad, and questioning that the topic of the article was appropriate for the forum. Someone (a poster with a low post count, NOT the mothering UN) posted:

 

"I work with MDC. I am sorry to hear that you feel this way. MDC supports the efforts of [this org], and they in turn are an MDC sponsor, supporting us. We have always tried to find sponsorship from those who share the ideals of our members. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to PM me on Mothering. Kind regards, Christine"
 

I googled for like 4 seconds and found out that the org was started and is led by Pat Robertson, so I posted that and that I thought it was highly innaproriate and then all hades broke loose. Some half-a$$ed apologies were posted, then a semi-genuine one from Peggy, which I asked if they would make into a formal apology. And the rest is the maelstrom of denial and lockdown that we have now!

 

MoonWIllow, thank you so much for your post. I do know that there is A LOT going on right now, and it is a ton on the moderators' plate. I don't fault the mods unilaterally, but I'm really saddened to see how this has been dealt with. Even if a reply like yours had been posted in response to the MANY people asking for an apology or even an acknowledgment would have meant a lot to me. Instead, people are getting banned, mods are saying "stuff happnes," legitimate threads are getting locked and converations are being shut down. Yes, people keep beating dead horses, but it's because I don't think that our concerns have REALLY been validated, addressed and taken seriously. I actually can't believe that I haven't been banned yet.

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#27 of 143 Old 06-18-2011, 01:13 PM
 
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Peggy did apologize on thread (Millet I think you've probably seen) but not in a formal way yet. 

 

I don't know of any mods who are laid back about this. Everyone feels the discord and we are all trying to navigate accordingly. The concerns voiced in the various threads about everything that has been going on are being read and considered. 

 

If a thread was locked under this new UA (being so much less strict than the old one) then there had to be something pretty bad, defamatory or something. It's hard to speak generally about the different things that are going on because well, there's A LOT happening. 

 

Regarding bannings; its just not that simple. Its a case by case basis and its not taken lightly. Speaking your mind on a thread WON'T get you banned. Repeatedly posting UA violations will. 

 

This probably isn't even an appropriate discussion to be having here but as the mod for this forum I wanted to let you guys know that I'm here and listening!   

 

Quote:

 

 MoonWIllow, thank you so much for your post. I do know that there is A LOT going on right now, and it is a ton on the moderators' plate. I don't fault the mods unilaterally, but I'm really saddened to see how this has been dealt with. Even if a reply like yours had been posted in response to the MANY people asking for an apology or even an acknowledgment would have meant a lot to me. Instead, people are getting banned, mods are saying "stuff happnes," legitimate threads are getting locked and converations are being shut down. Yes, people keep beating dead horses, but it's because I don't think that our concerns have REALLY been validated, addressed and taken seriously. I actually can't believe that I haven't been banned yet

 

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#28 of 143 Old 06-18-2011, 02:27 PM
 
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That Cynthia locked the thread when she did, in the manner that she did, using the tone and language that she did was the biggest slap in the face.  Accusing concerned MDC members of being trolls and challenging their intentions was both uncalled for and juvenile.  The apology within the thread is not sufficient when combating (and yes, it is combat!) such a huge and dangerous organization that is all things Pat Robertson.  What with all the changes around here lately (for the worse, in my estimation), it has been hard to fly my MDC flag, but until that thread was so unceremoniously locked -- as was the one about getting to the bottom of MDC's stance on AIDS denialism -- I was more than willing to stick around and see the new shape of things once the dust settled.  But now, the only reason I'm still here is for my queer parenting community.  If I could uproot us all and take us somewhere else, I would.  I miss Mothering; the magazine and the online commune that once was. 

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#29 of 143 Old 06-18-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by starling&diesel View Post

That the mod locked the thread when she did, in the manner that she did, using the tone and language that she did was the biggest slap in the face.  Accusing concerned MDC members of being trolls and challenging their intentions was both uncalled for and juvenile.  The apology within the thread is not sufficient when combating (and yes, it is combat!) such a huge and dangerous organization that is all things Pat Robertson.  What with all the changes around here lately (for the worse, in my estimation), it has been hard to fly my MDC flag, but until that thread was so unceremoniously locked -- as was the one about getting to the bottom of MDC's stance on AIDS denialism -- I was more than willing to stick around and see the new shape of things once the dust settled.  But now, the only reason I'm still here is for my queer parenting community.  If I could uproot us all and take us somewhere else, I would.  I miss Mothering; the magazine and the online commune that once was. 


Well put! The locking of threads and name calling (trolls) is ridiculous, especially in light of "less moderation".
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thanks Milletpuff for the recap.  I do think a public apology is required, no matter how things went down with the Operation Blessings endorsement.  When I read the original thread there was a lot of explaining being done, and now that I know someone who is part of MDC stated that MDC supports Operation Blessings and vice versa, yes that is very hurtful.  My feelings are that when you hurt someone you don't sit around justifying and explaining.  You apologize.  You say, "I am so sorry that you've been hurt and it never should have happened."  I'm not hugely emotionally attached to MDC - the old UA was a little too draconian for my taste - so I'm a bit of a dispassionate observer, although I've been participating more in the past few months.  My observation is that not immediately apologizing in a public way does devalue me as a queer member of MDC.  My issues are simply not important.  This makes me quite sad.  I hope some sort of public, formal apology is coming. 

 

As for locking the AIDS denialism thread - total and utter shite.  To do it in a manner that uses name calling (Trolls) and conspiracy theories (smear campaign) is inappropriate.  I think it was the web master/web director who wrote this, which I find shockingly unprofessional.  I'm not flaming by saying this, I'm stating that people who are paid to do a job and to represent a community to the public should be professional in their presentation, use appropriate language and represent their employer with the utmost integrity.  This speaks volumes to me about the inner workings of MDC, that web politics get in the way of professionalism.

 

My two cents.  I still live in fear of the old UA that if I voice my opinion I'll get shut down, so I hope that was okay Moonwillow. 


Me: almost 40, RN DW: 38, CPD Boy: born 4/2/2007 Girl: born 8/23/2010
Queer Parenting since 2007
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