Monogamous committed lesbians parenting a child (or TTC) Buddy Group - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:00 AM
 
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Sigh... I just meant that even with my very specific answer you were determined that you did not fit in here - had nothing to do with the quote feature but thank you for being so kind as to explain what the quote feature is for. I felt that I tried to be friendly in the hopes of getting to know another mama here, and that your post turned out to just be some kind of joke, or mockery to get some point across.

Now I'm asking, is there something wrong with having a specifically minded buddy group? I see other "buddy group" threads on here that get a lot of action. What on earth is so wrong with the title of this thread that it seems to cause antagonistic reactions???

Me: married to my :fireman Mama to my littles: Toby 8/04 and Elina 10/08
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#62 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:03 AM
 
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Yup by all means, start a buddy group for committed monogamous lesbians. I don't think anyone objects to that.

I object to the idea that it's okay to use that thread to criticize others - that actually is against the UA. I also object to the idea of narrowing the focus of the Queer Parenting board. And I feel offended by what I feel are assertions in this thread, and in another by the same poster, that queer mamas who are not lesbians in monogamous relationships are less queer.
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#63 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:09 AM
 
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I think this forum gets too little traffic as it is, and that MDC is not exactly the most queer poz place I've ever hung out. I would not like to see the scope of this forum get any smaller.
That was why I suggested perhaps a name change.. because the name of the forum to those of us getting to know MDC implies queer parenting issues.... which is why it seemed strange to see other topics going on here. I certainly have no problems with this forum being a haven for all queer discussion - I was only (originally) pointing out that there are very few topics that actually fall under parenting issues, and hoping to find a way to bring more of that into actual discussion.

Again, for the record, I'm not looking to nor do I think I have criticized other posters. All I've attempted to do is converse in order to understand each person's situation a little bit better and figure out where you all are coming from in your feelings and beliefs.

Me: married to my :fireman Mama to my littles: Toby 8/04 and Elina 10/08
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#64 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:14 AM
 
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Nothing wrong with a name change, but I don't want to rock the boat with the mods to be honest. Even this discussion has me cringing... I hope this forum doesn't get narrowed.

I wasn't saying you were criticizing other posters. I was responding to your suggestion that queer mamas like me weren't making space for this thread to exist. If this thread just existed as a support thread, fine. I came in and felt pissy because it was being used to criticize other people. Two different things.
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#65 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Faerieshadow
Sigh... I just meant that even with my very specific answer you were determined that you did not fit in here - had nothing to do with the quote feature but thank you for being so kind as to explain what the quote feature is for. I felt that I tried to be friendly in the hopes of getting to know another mama here, and that your post turned out to just be some kind of joke, or mockery to get some point across.
Sweetie, you're reading WAAAAYYY more into my responses than there really is...you asked me a question, I answered it. No snarkyness or mockery intended.

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Originally Posted by faerieshadow
Now I'm asking, is there something wrong with having a specifically minded buddy group? I see other "buddy group" threads on here that get a lot of action. What on earth is so wrong with the title of this thread that it seems to cause antagonistic reactions???
My answer is similar to Thismama's ....for me, it's just that this forum is small enough, and for me as a lesbian, and not bi or poly etc..as the majority of the QP posters are, I do feel bummed to be left out of what little lesbian parenting discussion might actually be happening because I'm not in a monogamous, committed relationship. But THAT is MY sh*t, and I'm just whining- people should be able to post whatever buddy group they are looking for.
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#66 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:22 AM
 
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I think this whole thread got off topic because of lingering feelings of resentment over previous thread topics and/or responses. Ordinarily, or perhaps I should say IRL something like that would be talked about in the heat of the moment and then be done and over with.. of course here we have all our words stored for everyone to gawk at and pick apart - no ill feelings meant, I'm just trying to say that because we're typing words instead of speaking, each momentary feeling we have and write about leaves a permanent mark.

Ugh, I don't even know where I'm trying to go with this anymore, I'm heading off to bed. I just want everyone to understand that I'm not trying to argue here, just discuss.

Me: married to my :fireman Mama to my littles: Toby 8/04 and Elina 10/08
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#67 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:26 AM
 
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#68 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:29 AM
 
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I just wanted to add to that I'm not typically that whiney about things. I think it's because as a single lesbian parent I get really left out IRL because any lesbian mama I know is partnered. For whatever reason, partnered lesbians don't associate with the single lesbians. It sucks. All of the "love makes a family" shit...all partnered lesbians. I don't exsist. Straight coupled women are more inclusive than the lesbians. What's up with that? SO I guess it just stinks to see the same thing happening here. Again..totally my stuff..
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#69 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 01:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by max_4477
I don't personally see a problem with this thread, but would love it if a single lesbian mama started another buddy thread, as I would still be much more at home there at this point. (FWIW, which may not be much!)
I tried a while back, and mostly got responces from bi, married or committed to men, women. Very happy to be introduced to them by the way...but there aren't many single lesbians here.
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#70 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:00 AM
 
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I know the actual topic title gave off a very specific type of person, but I thought that in the OP's explanatory posts she indicated that it was more the mindset she was looking for - as in, just because you are single or don't happen to have children yet, doesn't exclude you from here if you would find yourself identifying to that type of situation. I think she stated that what she was really looking for were people who were raising or wanted to raise children who would not have a husband/father figure. I'm not one to exclude simple lesbian moms. My DP and I are attempting to strike up a new friendship right now with an old aquaintance who is a single lesbian mom - and my reasoning was that she's going through a lot of similar things that we are, and I would love her daughter and our son to be able to associate with someone IRL who understand the "I've got a mom or two but no dad" thing.

In fact, IRL anyway, I find DP and myself continuously ostracized for being such a "typical" family - a lot of other partnered lesbians or gays either think it is weird to have children that weren't from a previous marriage, or their lifestyle is not inclusive of children and family living. That's probably why I look so hard online here to find others like myself - it helps a little sometimes to know we really aren't crazy for doing this. :LOL

Me: married to my :fireman Mama to my littles: Toby 8/04 and Elina 10/08
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#71 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
Okay well I feel like I've had my say. Thanks for listening (to varying degrees :LOL ). Back to your regularly scheduled monogamouscommittedlesbians thread.

If anyone here is still speaking to me, and you know any single butches, lemme know... then maybe I can join your tribe.

Hey, and no moaning about things I say on other threads and assuming I'm straight! Or, I'll be back.

Peace. Kincaid, I hope you stick around.

There you go again. Aaaaagh. I can quote about 10 different places where I said very emphatically that single lesbians were 100% intended and welcomed. Others said the same thing.
But yet even till the end you are trying to claim we are wanting a coupled only space. This is why this "debate" has been an exercise in futility. Because you move from one thing to the next picking an argument. It is not worth taking the time to smooth things over and explain that we agree with some of your statements, becuase then you move on to the next thing. I just don't get arguing over stuff I did not say or intend - heck, stuff I clearly said the opposite of.
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#72 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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we know we are talking to queer mamas, and are not "outed" to the whole board. There was some drama awhile back because a thread was moved to TAO, and mamas were not comfortable disclosing their sexuality there.
Uh......... you are talking about another thread! That is against the UA!

A "spin off" thread? But that would be talking about another thread! That would be against the UA.



Discussing theories from another thread is not against the UA, to my knowledge. Thus the whole concept of a spin-off, which you yourself have suggested in this thread. In discussing the Pride thread I only was discussing the broad theories. I did not say that I disagreed with the idea of "partying" at a pride event. I did not say that I disagreed with anyone in specific at ALL on that thread. What I was commenting on is the fact that someone was IMO jumped on in a rude and abrupt way and her opinions discounted. There was no dialogue, no "hey poster, I can see where you are coming from, what about this?" Nope. Just seemed like people knocking her down. Hmmmm. Sounds familiar.
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#73 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
Yup by all means, start a buddy group for committed monogamous lesbians. I don't think anyone objects to that.

I object to the idea that it's okay to use that thread to criticize others - that actually is against the UA. I also object to the idea of narrowing the focus of the Queer Parenting board. And I feel offended by what I feel are assertions in this thread, and in another by the same poster, that queer mamas who are not lesbians in monogamous relationships are less queer.
Thismama, you really go too far in acting like I say things that I definately don't.

First, I have not criticized anyone else. I only referred to the theory of the pride event as it was discussed, and also I referred to the thread on what to call two mommies. Those were used as examples of where lesbians where jumped on and silenced by harsh and overreacting posts from others in the Queer Board. I did NOT criticize others. You can disagree with someone's theory, and disagree with the manner in which they shut down other folks, and in no way be criticizing them. You are not the UA police.

You object to narrowing the focus? Okay, so what? There are tons of threads where I disagree with the points of view expressed. I can ignore them, I can debate them, or I can start another thread which talks about the theory from another angle. One thing I would not do is cruise for posts I disagree with and then argue them without listening.

I have never in my life said or believed that anyone is "less queer." The fact that you keep beating that horse just leaves me speechless. In fact, I feel if anything that *I* am LESS QUEER. I don't feel "freaky". I don't feel "different". I feel like any other Joe on the street with a kid and a mortgage and a job and plain old Gap khakis. I am not in any way colorful. My only gripe is that as a taxpayer I want to be treated by my country as my straight neighbors.
I don't want to be in a queer contest with you. I don't care how queer anyone is. I just want my partner on my insurance.
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#74 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I do feel bummed to be left out of what little lesbian parenting discussion might actually be happening because I'm not in a monogamous, committed relationship. But THAT is MY sh*t, and I'm just whining- people should be able to post whatever buddy group they are looking for.
CBM, didn't you see my two or three posts where I said unpartnerted lesbians were definately included? Did you read those? Home come you are still saying that I mean you are not included? I would have thought you would have responded by saying "Cool, I wondered why you would leave that group out! Glad you clarified!" I don't understand what I am supposed to do to make you feel more welcomed. I even tried to throw in some personal friendliness like saying I was unpartnered for a long time myself, and that I could be at some time in the future (especially if my partner doesn't start helping more with the housework!). I feel like I am trying in a sincere effort to talk to you and make you feel included.
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#75 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 02:12 PM
 
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Kincaid, it's obvious to me that YOU want to pick a fight.

You named another thread and referred to specific comments by posters in it. That is against the UA. You also made critical comments about the other thread, and assumptions about the sexual orientation/marital status about posters, myelf included. Referring generally to other threads without naming them or criticizing people is different - I have done it many times and I believe it's allowed.

You also took a lighthearted post of mine and used it to say I was trying to be misleading about the intent of your thread.

I've told you what I'm hearing you say and asked for clarification. I have asked you questions. You have offered no response other than to repeatedly assert that it is impossible to talk to me because I'm not listening.

I DON'T CARE if this thread is for partnered lesbians. I have no problem with that. Nothing wrong with having a tribe for partnered lesbians.

I DO have trouble with some of the assumptions made in this thread about other posters in this forum, and with a vibe I'm picking up that you feel lesbians who are not partnered with other women and bisexual people can't understand you and are crowding you out of the Queer Parenting forum. And that it's up to the partnered lesbians to decide what this forum is for and make requests to mods for changes - otherwise why would that discussion be happening in a thread only for partnered lesbians, and why would you cry "takeover" when other mamas post on this thread?
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#76 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 04:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
And that it's up to the partnered lesbians to decide what this forum is for and make requests to mods for changes - otherwise why would that discussion be happening in a thread only for partnered lesbians, and why would you cry "takeover" when other mamas post on this thread?
Can I ask what this is in reference to?

Me: married to my :fireman Mama to my littles: Toby 8/04 and Elina 10/08
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#77 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 04:31 PM
 
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This is about monogamous committed lesbians "taking back" the queer forum (from other queers who have stolen it? ):

Quote:
I think the group could get some strength there. And then maybe come back and reclaim the queer board!
This is discussing what the forum should be about:

Quote:
I have suggested to the powers that be that we re-shape this forum and move relationship/sexuality issues to someplace appropriate for them. And that Queer Parenting be about the issues that Gay folks face as a parent in society. I don't think "Married but interested in expoloring my bisexuality" has anything to do with gay parenting - it is about sexuality and relationships.
And this telling me my input in the discussion is not welcome:

Quote:
You are not respecting the request of several lesbians here to just have a lesbian thread, a SIMPLE request to have a SMALL space available to them to talk about the SPECIFIC issues they do deal with.
PS - I am a lesbian. And I'm invading?
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#78 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 05:02 PM
 
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I think, and this is just my opinion of course, that you are taking some of those quotes out of context. I took "reclaim the queer board" to mean reclaiming the feel of being comfortable to post here, not trying to start a hostile takeover or anything. And as far as suggestions to the mods, people do that all the time about forums without neccessarily discussing it with anyone else. And the last quote I think was referring more to the fact that this thread turned argumentative than supportive, not saying you shouldn't post here.

Again, those aren't quotes from my own posts so I can't know the precise meaning behind the words. Just thought I'd share what my take was on them.

Me: married to my :fireman Mama to my littles: Toby 8/04 and Elina 10/08
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#79 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Faerieshadow
I think, and this is just my opinion of course, that you are taking some of those quotes out of context. I took "reclaim the queer board" to mean reclaiming the feel of being comfortable to post here, not trying to start a hostile takeover or anything. And as far as suggestions to the mods, people do that all the time about forums without neccessarily discussing it with anyone else. And the last quote I think was referring more to the fact that this thread turned argumentative than supportive, not saying you shouldn't post here.

Again, those aren't quotes from my own posts so I can't know the precise meaning behind the words. Just thought I'd share what my take was on them.
Good to see that peope can tell exactly what I meant.

Bye bye queer forum. This isn't worth my short amount of internet time per day. I need to talk about parenting issues
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#80 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
Well doesn't "married but interested in exploring my bisexuality" affect parenting? Why is being a lesbian in a monogamous relationship the only "status" worthy of being discussed in the Queer Parenting forum?

It seems to me that you think only one queer family dynamic counts, and only one viewpoint counts. And that the others (polyamourous, Gay Pride as a party) are somehow *less* queer.
Hmmnnn....I didn't read her explanations that way. I think it would serve this board and its members very well to have additional forums (i.e. Sexuality and Relationships) for discussions that don't fit in such a broad topic as "Queer Parenting."

Thinking about forums and titles, it occurs to me that I have never considered myself "queer." I'm not crazy about the term. Lesbian suits me just fine. I do, however, concede that "queer" is an all encompassing term. What about sub-forums like "Lesbian Parenting" "Bisexual Parenting" and "Poly Parenting" under "Queer Parenting" so that when a person wants to connect with people with whom they have a LOT in common with, they can?

I think Kincaid makes some very valid points and has definitely provided us all with things worth considering.
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#81 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
I am interested in debating your assertion that Queer Parenting is not a place monogamous lesbians can feel comfortable because other types of queer people post here.
That's really how you read what she wrote? "....because other types of queer people post here." I don't see that in her posts. I also don't see where she asked for a debate on the definition of "queer." C'mon.......can't you see where she was coming from -- even a little? If somebody in the group said "Gee, I wish there was a place that all the lesbian and bisexual and poly moms of triplets could convene..." would that make sense to you? Would you understand and not take it personally? There is a big difference between what you are accusing Kincaid of and Kincaid (and others) simply wanting to connect with those she/we have a lot in common with occasionally/in another space.
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#82 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 09:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jgreer
Not every board is for everyone. You have to look around to find the people you are really comfortable with. That's why I suggested that people might like the board that I posted earlier in the thread.

Greer
I checked that board out, Greer. Hmmnn..there are so few posts and, it appears, so few members. Is it a new board? Oh -- I also remember that it is a San Diego based board. I wonder if I'm missing something -- maybe was looking in the wrong place for the good discussions?
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#83 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 10:04 PM
 
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Okay well I guess I misunderstood. I got more carried away with this argument than I intended to. It was more that I felt people were saying one thing and then changing it... now I can't even get it straight what the argument is.
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#84 of 118 Old 06-15-2005, 11:43 PM
 
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Here is the deal...correct me if I am wrong...I (We) would like a place where Single LESBIANS and Monogamous Committed LESBIANS TTC/with children can deal with issues that affect us as a community...IE the ability to adopt our Child (non-bio), How we got pregnant (I wish I had had more of this information when we started ttc) and how we deal with our bio-families, etc. etc. etc...

I don't even understand why Poly folks are on the queer board to begin with...As for Bisexuals, they definately belong here, but if they are married they really don't have any idea where we are coming from as Lesbians.

I think that we need to fight for our space, by being in our space! For those of us who are activist, when has walking away ever been the way to fight!? I have always stood my ground, I have not only been an activist in my political life, but in my private life. I have always hated when "they" ended up causing fights within our own space...

If we as Lesbians can make this our space, then let's make it ours...I do believe that the Poly folks should be moved to one for Relationship and not this one...but we have to do it, no one else is....right!?
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#85 of 118 Old 06-16-2005, 12:19 AM
 
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Well I agree with you that I would love to see more discussion from lesbians on the board.

I think leave the poly threads alone... who decides who is queer enough to post on the Queer Parenting forum, and why does the existence of that thread threaten those who are not poly?

But yes, lesbians, come out and play! I'd love to talk about how I got pregnant, and my desire to have a second chiild as a single lesbian. And I'd love to hear how others got pg, and how you are managing your families.
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#86 of 118 Old 06-16-2005, 12:40 AM
 
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Curious Me.. Sophia... great points, I'm glad to see some other mamas who understand the dilemma.

Me: married to my :fireman Mama to my littles: Toby 8/04 and Elina 10/08
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#87 of 118 Old 06-16-2005, 12:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Amazlilith
I have always hated when "they" ended up causing fights within our own space...
who is the "they" that you refer to?

really digging the inclusive vibe here.



not.
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#88 of 118 Old 06-16-2005, 01:04 AM
 
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really digging the inclusive vibe here.



not.
I spent four pages trying to say what you said in seven words, G. Props to you. :
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#89 of 118 Old 06-16-2005, 01:15 AM
 
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aaah, i'm just bitter at the constant reminder of how little action i am currently getting.
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#90 of 118 Old 06-16-2005, 02:17 AM
 
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This is certainly a truly amazing thread.
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