Queer Parents Poll - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Queer Parent Poll
I am 100% heterosexual 18 100.00%
I am bi, leaning more toward men than women 16 100.00%
I am bi, and equally attracted to both men and women 18 100.00%
I am bi, leaning more toward woman than men 28 100.00%
I am 100% homosexual 17 100.00%
I am single 8 80.00%
I am in a monogomous relationship 58 100.00%
I am in an open/poly relationship 19 100.00%
I am satisfied in my relationship 63 100.00%
I am dissatisfied in my relationship 13 100.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-22-2006, 01:54 AM
 
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so if I'm reading this right, since I am bi-sexual but haven't been with a woman in over a year, and my current poly fidelitious {sp?} relationship is with two amazing MEN who know and accept and encourage the full range of my sexuality, I am going to be excluded from this forum because in the eyes of admin poly isn't queer enough or even queer at all? is that right?
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:11 AM
 
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Well, I don't favour restricting posting at all in this forum, but of course restricting seems to be an MDC specialty.

If it must occur, I would prefer to see restriction based on topic (like any queer issue as it relates to parenting) vs. identity (like married monogamous lesbians can do no wrong but the polyamorous bisexuals better STFU coz they're making us look bad).
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:14 AM
 
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I couldn't answer the poll accurately. I'm single. I'm neither heterosexual nor bisexual because I see more than two genders. I'm attracted to people's hearts and brains (ok, that sounds gross---I'm not literally attracted to internal organs).

When I'm with my FTM partner, I appear straight because he completely passes. When I'm with a man, I may appear straight but noone knows what we do in the sack---which would NOT seem very "straight" at all. I'm attracted to men who like men. I'm attracted to women. I'm attracted to intersex people. Etc etc etc. Is there a box for me? Please point it out so I can run the other way.
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:27 AM
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Okay y'all...you can get offended and decide that I am trying to shove people out, or you can HELP ME. please.

That was my first thought. It is as inclusive as I can get without moving this forum into a non-parenting forum.

Pynki - your thread about being open about being bi with your kids would most certainly go here. As would any questions about bisexuality and parenting.

Kaitnbugsmom -not what I said. You have a situation in your life in which being queer directly impacts your parenting - does it not? threads regading that would go here.

This forum is called Queer PARENTING. Not Queer Relationships. That is where I am drawing the line for now...because no one has offered a better suggestion - and since I am having a hard time moderating this forum, as did Raven, as did indiegirl, I need to find the purpose and use of this forum. Because MDC doesn't host relationship threads.

I am not devaluing ANY relationship. I am NOT saying that anyone isn't queer enough to post here.

I am saying this is about parenting. This is about being queer and parenting.

So, again, I am throwing out ideas, thoughts, ways to make this forum continue to exist - as I said - it has been brought up that it be removed. So, please, don't get offended, help me out. Give me suggestions, read what I am writing, don't assume that I am saying "You there - you forgot your rainbow pin - GET OUT!" I am not saying anyone can't post here - I am not saying you aren't queer. I am saying the posts may not apply to the forum.

I used myself as an example...I don't have any threads to post about parenting that would belong here. Regardless of how I ID, nothing about parenting in my life at current moment would include being queer. I am not saying that anyone else who is bi and married to a man doesn't have something to post here. Just using that example - that I PERSONALLY, do not have something to post that would belong in this forum.

As much as we try, we can't be all things to all people. We are primarily a parenting board - and as such, there are things we don't host. Mothering has decided that relationship and sex threads are not something they want to host. So, now how do we define the QP board so that people feel comfy posting here and we maintain the integrity of the parenting topic?

I am not the final arbiter - I am not going to radically change the forum in any way. I am getting ideas to take back to the mods and admin.

Please help me out, or I am making decision arbitrarily and the forum may not be what you need/want it to be in regards to queer parenting.

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Old 02-22-2006, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by thismama
Well, I don't favour restricting posting at all in this forum, but of course restricting seems to be an MDC specialty.

If it must occur, I would prefer to see restriction based on topic (like any queer issue as it relates to parenting) vs. identity (like married monogamous lesbians can do no wrong but the polyamorous bisexuals better STFU coz they're making us look bad).
thismama - please, don't make this into another discussion about censorship. Some things MDC doesn't host - I don't make those rules. I can't change them.



I am trying so hard. I have gone rounds with the other mods about this, I have been very vocal about needing this board. Now I need some help.

I am certainly not trying to restrict based on identity - I didn't mean to make it sound that way. If I am then it is because I am a stupid twit - not because that is what I mean.

Okay I give...you all discuss...I am hormonal, pregnant and this depresses me that I am the bad guy.

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Old 02-22-2006, 02:34 AM
 
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Adina. it is a tricky situation. I mean, it almost seems impossible to have a designated section for queer parents and not allow members to talk about their reltionship issues. Same as in Parents as Partners, Single Parents etc. What can you do, really other than simply erase every thread that isn't specifically about parenting. I mean, if that's the rule, that's the rule.
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:38 AM
 
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Don't freak out, Adina! I think you're being more defensive than you need to be. I for one write with a bitchy tone and will never turn down an opportunity to criticize MDC censorship. I don't think you're an arsehole, and I don't see anyone else saying that either. Much of it is arguing amongst ourselves about what is "queer" enough.

It did concern me when you said you don't have anything to write about in QP, coz I thought you were extending that to all bi-with-a-guy mamas. So thank you for clarifying.

I think there are some good suggestions here, offered by and for you. Maybe come back with fresh eyes tomorrow and have another look?

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Old 02-22-2006, 02:46 AM
 
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Another thought on the "why we need this forum" - there are many issues specific to queer families. Yes those issues are diverse, as our community is diverse, but they are queer specific issues and there are a lot of them.

Also, many ppl don't feel comfortable posting in PaP or TAO or other forums, because there is a lot of overt homophobia at MDC, and beyond those folks many others just wouldn't "get it." I have also had pm's from queer mamas who only post things that out them here, coz they know ppl IRL and don't want to be outed. This place feels more secluded, safer.

This forum is valuable. Thank you for fighting for it.
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama
This forum is valuable. Thank you for fighting for it.
:
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:50 AM
 
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Adina, this is what bothered me:

Quote:
I think that the poly threads are what is bothering me most.

Since they tend to be a discussion of how to navigate having a poly relationship - they don't tend to be about navigating a same sex relationship. Does that make sense?


I also think that it tends to fall under the "alternative lifestyles" camp, which too many people lump being queer into - like it is a choice, or an option. Which I REALLY detest and don't want to see here.
{bolding/italics mine}


it seemed by the parts I bolded & italicized that you were bothered by poly relationships and felt they were a choice and thereby something you DETEST and don't want here...
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by thismama
Another thought on the "why we need this forum" - there are many issues specific to queer families. Yes those issues are diverse, as our community is diverse, but they are queer specific issues and there are a lot of them.

Also, many ppl don't feel comfortable posting in PaP or TAO or other forums, because there is a lot of overt homophobia at MDC, and beyond those folks many others just wouldn't "get it." I have also had pm's from queer mamas who only post things that out them here, coz they know ppl IRL and don't want to be outed. This place feels more secluded, safer.

This forum is valuable. Thank you for fighting for it.
This is one of the very reasons I feel this forum is so neccessary - you know I mod N&CE - and that every so often we get some less that openminded person in there, and I have to pull some very homophobic post.

Another idea - how about changing the name and focus to Queer Families? More inclusive - less likely to include dating threads? This was another idea I threw out to the other mods and admin.

Because really that is what we are shooting for?

I guess I am having trouble pinning down what the forum should be. If we don't host relationship threads, then finding a partner, or dating, or going to gay bars is pretty much out for discussion here - which does limit the scope of conversation.

I dunno - it is a fine line. I am having trouble finding it and know that in order to moderate - I have to have some guidelines...my past practice was to let it all fly under the radar and not really do anything - but that isn't gonna work anymore.

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Old 02-22-2006, 02:55 AM
 
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I like the Queer Families idea a lot.
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Old 02-22-2006, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitnbugsmom
Adina, this is what bothered me:

{bolding/italics mine}


it seemed by the parts I bolded & italicized that you were bothered by poly relationships and felt they were a choice and thereby something you DETEST and don't want here...
Sorry - I was again - unclear.

I detest the idea that many non-tolerant people have that being queer is a choice. I detest that the argument they use is "alternative lifestyles" and they lump into it everything including poly and gay - in addition to marrying one's dog.

Who you fall in love with is not a choice. That is what I believe.

I don't want to see this forum turned into an "alternative lifestyles" forum, a phrase which I detest. That was a suggestion at one point....

I think all relationships are choices to some extent. We all choose to be open, or monogamous, or celibate. We don't choose who we fall in love with.

I think faster than I type what can I say?

I certainly have no negative feelings toward poly families, I have issues with how to moderate this board, and where poly threads fall.

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Old 02-22-2006, 03:00 AM
 
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or celibate. (
Well, I'm not exactly choosing celibacy at the moment . Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:01 AM
 
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Adina,
I see you as doing a good, but hard, job. A much needed job. A thankless job.

I don't understand why some people have to be so darned confrontational and rude.

I am tired of my "Monogomous committed lesbian parents" thread title being used as an insult. Beth, I have apologized to you publicly and in PM till I was blue in the face. I did not mean for anyone to feel slighted when I created one measley thread. I am so tired of that thread being dogged - there is nothing wrong with a committed lesbian working hard for marriage rights and equal parenting rights to post a thread... is there? Yeah, I left out bisexuals and women parenting with men in that one particular thread that I created. Your circumstance is different than mine. Heck, I could have left out women TTC, not because I don't love them (I dealt with infertilty heartache, let me tell you) but because I was aiming for a support group of lesbian partnered parents.

Thismama, your tone is so confrontational when we talk about this. It's hard for me not to feel attacked when I read your posts. If I hurt you in some way by wanting to pair-up with other committed lesbian moms, I again apologize. I offered to move that thread into Tribal areas and out of the QUEER board just to make people happy. *I* felt shut down in creating that thread. Am I exclusionary? Do I think I am more queer than others? Do I think you have to be monogomous to have value? No, no, no, no! I think it's crummy that I have to keep hearing digs about that thread when all I wanted was to get support from others in a like circumstance. I mean, honestly, I wanted to basically talk to people in that thread who were already parenting... but then I went back and opened it up to TTC folks because I didn't want people feeling left out. And then people who were "getting ready to TTC in the next year" joined, LOL. Then before I knew it, I was the queer police.

Every time I post on this forum, I regret spending mental energy here. Now my stomach hurts and I need to go to bed, it's midnight.

Adina, I don't envy you this work at all. I apprecaite the MDC community, and I respect the decisions that I have seen implemented across the board. I think people are working for a collective good. I trust the mods and owners to do what's best for the overall health of the site because this is THEIR baby.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
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Well, I'm not exactly choosing celibacy at the moment . Sorry, couldn't resist.

I KNEW someone was gonna be a smart ass about that!

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Old 02-22-2006, 03:22 AM
 
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Kincaid - I find your tone to be very confrontational with me too. I have refrained from responding directly to you, and have instead responded to similar ideas from someone else, to avoid a flamefest. I am trying to be respectful (if somewhat distant) with you coz we tend to get really argumentative really fast. And when I do speak to you I am making a conscious effort to be respectful in tone.

I hope you can hear me on this thing about the "married monogamous lesbians thread" - it was not as simple as other ppl feeling threatened by mamas wanting to connect with each other.

I am the one who initially responded and ended up derailing it. I posted because in the thread you mentioned something I said in another thread, that I love Pride for the big party it is. You said it was an example of how this forum is being taken over by women who come out to party and then go home to "their husbands and their tax cuts," if I recall correctly, while others like yourself have to stay to really fight the fight coz it affects their real lives.

I go home to no husband and no tax cut. I am a single mama and I live in poverty. I came out at 16 as a lesbian, and altho I ID as somewhat bisexual, I have only had relationships with women. I also have a different political perspective on queerness than you do - for me I don't think that assimilating and seeking approval and acceptance from straight people is the best ultimate goal. I fear that goal encourages us to silence the more "out there" elements amongst us, and erases much of what queer folk have to contribute to this culture.

So I don't really support gay marriage, I don't go to Pride to show the straights that we are normal too, etc.

But that is not *less* queer than your perspective, made possible coz I must have a het relationship to go back to. Which is what you were using that "lesbian monogamous" thread to say.

I will repeat that I cannot imagine a thread for monogamous committed lesbians that was not used to judge other people would be disrespected in this forum. I cannot fathom it.
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:24 AM
 
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I know I'm new here, but for what it's worth I think that this forum should be for discussions about parenting experiences directly related to being in a same sex relationship.

Just because I identify as queer doesn't mean that *all* my parenting concerns have to do with being queer -- and if they don't, they probably don't belong here. Just a thought.

-Kieran
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:44 AM
 
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I know I'm new here, but for what it's worth I think that this forum should be for discussions about parenting experiences directly related to being in a same sex relationship.
I would amend that to "discussions about parenting experiences related to being queer." I am not in a same sex relationship right now, or any relationship at all, but I still have issues concerning parenting and being queer (ie. mshollyk's thread about having queer paraphernalia in the house).
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:46 AM
 
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I was not trying to be confrontational or rude. I was hurt and upset by the things I bolded and the way they came across to me, as well as some of the other posts about non-lesbians not being queer enough...

In my ideal world, we would be able to have established {stickied perhaps} ongoing threads for each sub-group as well as just 'regular' threads for all to comment in. That would let up on some of the animosity between posters...

Really, in my world at least, my family is discriminated against just as much as my best friend's, she is a lesbian in an established relationship, seeking invitro since all the adoption agencies they can afford either turn them down outright or tell them they'll never pass the homestudy because of their sexuality... this is po-dunk, after all.. or even another friend who is actively tri-sexual and pagan.. {has had almost everything done to her from tracts forced on her on the job in an automotive plant to slurs written on her windsheild in vagisil and other fun ways, to comments made to her kids about them going to hell and so on... }.


we all face alot of stereotypes and critisism {pardon spelling, it's almost one a.m. and I've been up since four a.m. Tuesday} from the 'outside world' just by being non-mainstream in our child rearing techniques, let alone our sexuality. Beating each other over the head with our individual views of who does and doesn't qualify as 'queer' or who is or isn't having the right kind of issues or whatever.... isn't going to help anyone. I know this sounds so sixties corny that it's not funny, but we do need to band together, or at least agree to disagree on some things and get along.... for the sake of the greater good and all that..
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Old 02-22-2006, 03:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KieranD
I know I'm new here, but for what it's worth I think that this forum should be for discussions about parenting experiences directly related to being in a same sex relationship.



-Kieran

this is exactly what I'm talking about. Same sex isn't the only form of queer, y/k?
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:13 AM
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This I like:

"discussions about parenting experiences related to being queer" I would add the word "directly" in there.

So a purpose statement being....

The Queer Families forum is for discussions about parenting experiences directly related to being queer.


Kincaid - threads such as the one you started - "married monogamous lesbian mamas" are just fine. Just like a "poly parents" thread would be fine, or other "tribal" queer threads. However, as we have had happen in the past, those kind of threads are not just an exempt zone in which you can say whatever you like. We had a big problem with other tribal threads being used to bash other groups...liberals vs. conservatives, catholics vs. pagans. We had to seriously crack down on it. So discussing other members in these threads would be a . But group threads are a good and fine idea... It gives more specific focus to the conversation - we have a ton of them on the TTC board (TTC over a year, TTC over 40, The One Thread).

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Old 02-22-2006, 04:19 AM
 
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I like that statement, but I do have a question:

I know trolling for a date is a no no, as is direct or indirect sexual comment. But what about questions in the 'grey' as it were, such as handling being queer in a backwoods society, let alone being a queer parent, or how to tell DCS to keep their nose out of your bedroom without losing your kids, etc...
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:27 AM
 
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I like the statement too. And I vote for including the "grey" areas, and erring on the side of inclusion of queer parenting stuff like Kaitnbugsmom describes.
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Old 02-22-2006, 04:28 AM
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This is where the line gets REEEEAAAAALLLY fine. And where I have the most problems.

The DCS thread would fit - no question.

The other one - I think would fit under the auspices of a Queer Families forum, though not so well under Queer Parenting....though I would leave it here because it is relevant to how one parent's when the society around them dissapproves as best, and is hostile at worst. And at some point you are going to have to discuss it with your child.

I think those are both fine - I certainly wouldn't move them.

Forgive my thinking out loud.

The threads that would go away, or to another forum most likely, are ones like how to find a third person to add to the relationship, or about Queer as Folk, or that are just general threads that fit in the general forums. A thread talking about having a crush on someone would go, a thread about how to introduce a new partner to your child would stay. Clear as mud?

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Old 02-22-2006, 04:35 AM
 
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Makes perfect sense to me, Adina. I can't believe I'm saying that to a m- m- m- mod, but I totally agree.
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Old 02-22-2006, 09:07 AM
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See, we can be okay!

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Old 02-22-2006, 11:33 AM
 
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That's it. TM's MDC rebel card is being revoked. She just agreed with a mod. (A cool mod, but still! We can't be having that!) Hand it over TM...:giggle

It's lonely being the only XX in a house of XYs.
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Old 02-22-2006, 11:43 AM
 
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Thismama, good amendment. That is the spirit I was trying to express, it just got lost in my choice of words.

-Kieran
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Old 02-22-2006, 11:44 AM
 
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Kincaid - I'm sorry what I posted upset you. That was not my intention - I was just trying to share an example of why I felt a certain way in the past. I wasn't trying to "dig it up," and I appreciated your past apology, but it doesn't erase how I felt. I also want to say that IMO there is no need to get so defensive. Even if people are confrontational with you. Obviously that is what you are choosing, so it's ok too. I will say that I appreciated when you clarified your first post on this thread. I am another person who misinterpreted what you were saying about your identity, and it's not the first time. You can take or leave that feedback - that people often interpret your posts to be saying something different - but there it is.

Which brings me to my next point...

One thing I notice reading a lot of things at MDC, is people often forget that communication online has it's own special challenges. I forget too - I'm not leaving myself out! We have to check our assumptions about what people are saying and what we assume their tone to be. I don't always succeed, but I try to come at it from a place of assuming the best about people and their intentions, and then ask for clarification "when you said ___ that seemed really snarky to me. Did you really mean _____?" I know it sounds like blah blah social worker speak but I really think it can be helpful. I swear a TON of the disagreements I see around here on MDC are for these reasons.

Which brings me to my second-to-last-point:

Why the heck do people get so worked up on an online message board? Maybe it's because I'm a newbie, but um, my life is not online on MDC. My life is offline, with my family and friends. If I read/see something I don't like, I don't sit up all night stewing about it or let it get to me. Just my personal opinion of course, but I just don't get it.

Last point:
Adina - I agree with your last post as to what content should be ok/not ok. As a person who identifies as poly, I feel that discussion around being poly not related to being a queer parent could go in a designated thread in the tribal areas "Poly Parents/Mamas" or something like that.
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