Anyone come out *after* having kid(s)? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 48 Old 08-15-2007, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm sorry if I misunderstood other people's posts. There are just a couple of "scripts" for this kind of thing and sometimes trying to live outside them can be frustrating.
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#32 of 48 Old 08-15-2007, 10:08 PM
 
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I came out just 3 years ago. I was in a fairly long term relationship with my kids' dad, but we had broken apart before I realized that I was a lesbian. I had been living on my own for a year and a half until I came to the realization, so I didn't have much as far as messiness with the kids' dad. He did freak out on me and pretty much since I met my current GF of almost 2 years, I've had no contact with him.

You'll be fine, but in my opinion, I think it will be hard to try to live life to it's fullest while remaining in the marriage that you have. It really can work out being a single parent and going to school... I'm doing it. You'll constantly be waiting for that time when you can fully be who you are and having to wait because you think you can't do it on your own. Just my thoughts though.

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#33 of 48 Old 08-17-2007, 04:50 PM
 
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Bumping this back up because I've been thinking about these two posts below for, oh, days (must get a life, must get a life ) and for some reason I still feel the need to respond. FTR and to keep things, err, straight, I am not BSD, just a reader of the thread who has found BSD's OP and further postings on this subject very inspirational.

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Originally Posted by frog View Post
Very, very carefully, and with your eyes wide open to the fact that a whole lot of lesbians are going to be extremely cautious if they will even consider being involved with you sexually while you're married to a man.
It also stands to reason that many (most?) of us who undergo this sort of deep internal core identity shift while married will be both terrified and determinedly picky - about everything. There are many, many, many (etc) more things to consider in shifting one's core identity than who one will seek out as a sexual partner. In fact, for many if not most, who one does the deed with is rather incidental to the overwhelming process of change involved here. And at whatever point in that process of chance a woman seeks a relationship with another woman, it makes more sense to me that the married (or formerly married) woman, bringing children, exes, and much baggage, in tow, would be extremely picky. Outright rejection from someone unwilling to consider the reality of one's life is, in fact, a great gift, no? I would venture, however, that the rejection happens more frequently on the other side. Like BSD, when I do contemplate a future outside of het-world, I contemplate it primarily as myself. It's about being myself, not about foisting attentions upon an unwilling community.

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I came out just 3 years ago. I was in a fairly long term relationship with my kids' dad, but we had broken apart before I realized that I was a lesbian. I had been living on my own for a year and a half until I came to the realization, so I didn't have much as far as messiness with the kids' dad. He did freak out on me and pretty much since I met my current GF of almost 2 years, I've had no contact with him.

You'll be fine, but in my opinion, I think it will be hard to try to live life to it's fullest while remaining in the marriage that you have. It really can work out being a single parent and going to school... I'm doing it. You'll constantly be waiting for that time when you can fully be who you are and having to wait because you think you can't do it on your own. Just my thoughts though.
I would respond here that the enormous shift involved in changing one's insides and outsides can take a long time or a short time. You had already shifted to singlehood before shifting your core identity. For those of us in supportive marriage/family situations, the disentangling of relationships is a huge, huge, separate but linked issue to the orientation issue. It requires delicacy and tact and courage, and the understanding that this is all a process. I comment BSD for her openness with her DH and their mutual understanding that this arrangement is not forever but is good for now. I, and I'm sure other readers to this thread, aspire to the same courage.

I hope now that I posted that I can stop thinking about it. :
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#34 of 48 Old 08-17-2007, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OMG AmyY you are my posting hero today. THANK YOU! I couldn't articulate what was irking me but you said it perfectly. I, too, have been thinking way too much about this thread and the issues that have come up in it. I even talked about it in therapy yesterday. :

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Originally Posted by AmyY View Post
It also stands to reason that many (most?) of us who undergo this sort of deep internal core identity shift while married will be both terrified and determinedly picky - about everything. There are many, many, many (etc) more things to consider in shifting one's core identity than who one will seek out as a sexual partner. In fact, for many if not most, who one does the deed with is rather incidental to the overwhelming process of change involved here.
YES. Thank you. I wish more people understood this. It's kind of like the whole "well how do you know if you're gay before having sex? Same way a straight virgin knows they're straight." But there's so much else to deal with. For me, a huge part is working through the shame I have inside from growing up in an incredibly negative and homophobic atmosphere. Reaching out and becoming part of a community is extremely important to me, too. Those are things that I want to work on before I throw myself into a relationship.

If I was still seeing men and broke up with my dh, I wouldn't want to jump right into the dating pool right away. After a 9 year serious relationship, whatever its ups and downs, that's quite a shock. Just because I'm "switching teams" doesn't mean I get to skip the transition period between relationships where I start to find out more about who *I* am outside of a romance.

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And at whatever point in that process of chance a woman seeks a relationship with another woman, it makes more sense to me that the married (or formerly married) woman, bringing children, exes, and much baggage, in tow, would be extremely picky. Outright rejection from someone unwilling to consider the reality of one's life is, in fact, a great gift, no? I would venture, however, that the rejection happens more frequently on the other side.
This has been majorly on my mind lately. I was thinking, ok so "some women" might "have issues" with my situation or my background or whatever. Right. Well, no big loss. Because any woman who is going to be with me will have to understand:

1. My daughter comes first. Always. No exceptions. I'm her mama before I owe anything to anyone else.

2. Her dad will always be her dad. Always. He is a good parent and they adore each other. He has always pulled his weight as a parent and he is loving, giving, supportive, feminist, kind-hearted, and ethical. Regardless of what happens between him and me, he will be her daddy and I will protect and enshrine that relationship because it is as sacred as her relationship to me.

3. He is also my friend and has been one of the few people in my life who has shown me true loyalty and who I can give full trust. I will not abuse his trust or treat him like an annoyance or inconvenience. I will not treat him like a sperm donor because that is not who he is to me or my daughter. I will not treat him like a non-custodial weekend daddy. He has been a 100% daddy from the moment we saw 2 pink lines and I will support him to continue being such forever.

They're not going away and I wouldn't want them to. If I could turn back the clock and make him sign a donor agreement and get lost I would never, ever do it. He is so much more than just an ex or a babydaddy. To me and to his daughter. I will not betray their bond, ever.

If a woman is threatened by that or cannot accept it, well, she wasn't going to be around for long anyhow, was she?

Quote:
Like BSD, when I do contemplate a future outside of het-world, I contemplate it primarily as myself. It's about being myself, not about foisting attentions upon an unwilling community.
Yes. And frankly I am really annoyed by the insinuations that we're foisting ourselves, aren't you? I mean really. The Lesbian Membership Approval Committee has been disbanded: rolling open enrollment is now available! Plus I have only really encountered that attitude online. IRL, I've never been to a lesbian or queer gathering where my past or present was an issue. In the flesh it's so different, people aren't as hung up on words. They like you, they accept you. They don't demand to see your ID.

And I am putting THAT out there because I am afraid that women early in the coming out process will see some of the naysaying online (we look into things online because it seems "safer" these days) and be too afraid to go out there and go to the potluck, visit the community center, volunteer for that project. Go out and do it, you won't regret it!

Quote:
I would respond here that the enormous shift involved in changing one's insides and outsides can take a long time or a short time. You had already shifted to singlehood before shifting your core identity. For those of us in supportive marriage/family situations, the disentangling of relationships is a huge, huge, separate but linked issue to the orientation issue. It requires delicacy and tact and courage, and the understanding that this is all a process.
Yep. Like I said above, I cannot and will not drop kick him and run simply because he is inconvenient to my identity. I don't have to be romantically involved with him, but I remain his friend by choice. And the involvement we have with each other because we became parents together is not dissolveable, period.

And there's practical considerations too. Should I forego the rest of my education and go get two crappy jobs just to make a point? No. There is no sense to that. This is not an abuse situation or an emergency. Two adults who get along are perfectly able to live platonically without exploding or regressing, it just takes cooperation and self-awareness and communication. Splitting our household up would cause chaos that is totally unnecessary right now. We'd still have to stagger our schedules around each other, or throw DD into care all day while we're in class, which would be another big change for her. If she lived with me, he might see her only a few hours a day at the very most. As it is he is here for her most of the time he's not away at school or work, and he helps put her to bed every night, makes her breakfast, soothes her tears when she trips, plays for hours making stuffed animals talk. It would traumatic to my daughter and incredibly hurtful and wrong to separate them from each other.

Our expenses would double. There would be less toys at Christmas and less relaxation time for everyone. No. Not going to do it.

This is what happened last time. People wanted to bully me into coming out THEIR way. Well I am older, stronger, and more confident now and I KNOW there is not only one way and that doing it a different way doesn't make me "less of a lesbian" than anyone. And again, I RARELY if ever encounter this stuff irl, but because I got dissed so bad in "safe" online anonymity last time I was scared to put myself out there. Not this time! I know myself, I believe in myself, and no one can shake that this time.
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#35 of 48 Old 08-17-2007, 06:05 PM
 
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Oh my. Well, I didn't post what I posted to try to say that you are "less of a lesbian" or to make you "come out in MY way." Geesh. I was expressing thoughts based upon MY life that you can take or leave. I felt that I displayed great tact in the way that I expressed those thoughts too. I just wanted to give another perspective. I would do the same IRL too. I wouldn't expect someone to come out and then immediately jump out of a marriage. I posted my thoughts just so you could think about it, because obviously at some point you will need to make some decisions. That's all. I thought you were looking for other people's experiences and so I shared mine and my thoughts based upon my experiences.

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#36 of 48 Old 08-17-2007, 09:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wemoon View Post
Oh my. Well, I didn't post what I posted to try to say that you are "less of a lesbian" or to make you "come out in MY way." Geesh. I was expressing thoughts based upon MY life that you can take or leave. I felt that I displayed great tact in the way that I expressed those thoughts too. I just wanted to give another perspective. I would do the same IRL too. I wouldn't expect someone to come out and then immediately jump out of a marriage. I posted my thoughts just so you could think about it, because obviously at some point you will need to make some decisions. That's all. I thought you were looking for other people's experiences and so I shared mine and my thoughts based upon my experiences.
Eeps! Wemoon, as the poster who used the term "tact" in my response (again, not BSD here), I must apologize profusely. In no way did I intend my post to suggest that any part of your life, or for that matter your excellent postings all over MDC, lacked tact! My intent was to say that for those of us in relationships at the time of, err, change, for lack of a quicker way to put it , we often feel like a bull in a china shop so to speak and we find ourselves seeking ways to be tactful with all the various people we encounter on our journeys. Clearly this didn't happen between me and you, and again, my sincere apologies.

It is enormously difficult to balance the goodness of life now with the changes that seem to be leading somewhere else. I appreciate the example of your life, and I find BSD's journey inspiring and closely related to my own feelings as well.
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#37 of 48 Old 08-18-2007, 01:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wemoon, I think I must have misunderstood one of your comments. I'm sorry about that.
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#38 of 48 Old 08-18-2007, 09:29 AM
 
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Thank you for the appology and I'm sorry if the way my post was worded gave some sort of other meaning other than I intended. I totally understand the complicated process of coming out after kids and after being only with men your entire existence. There isn't a right way to do it and I wish you the best in your journey through it.

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#39 of 48 Old 08-18-2007, 04:59 PM
 
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kind of coming in late to this, BSD, but I'm in a similar situation. we're handling it differently, but then my kiddo is older than yours, i think, and i happened to fall in love back in may, so... DH and i have decided to divorce but we will always be family. we will sell our house and gf and i will have our own place afterward... long long story, but she lives here too for now. it's all very amicable and friendly, though sometimes things get stressful for gf. we all want the process to move along a little faster, but it only goes as fast as it goes.

anyway, I don't think you're weird. I've just figured myself out at almost-35. it's been a few months now and i still have no idea how to go about re-integrating myself back into my own life, and school starts up again in 2 weeks. eek. please feel free to pm me if you'd like to talk!

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#40 of 48 Old 08-18-2007, 08:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Well, I know I speak for many when I say you are much loved, worshiped and adored here. If the rest of the world doesn't get it, their loss.
I haven't the rest of the replies, but .

I'm a BSD fan. :

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#41 of 48 Old 08-18-2007, 08:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by frog View Post
Very, very carefully, and with your eyes wide open to the fact that a whole lot of lesbians are going to be extremely cautious if they will even consider being involved with you sexually while you're married to a man.
Well, yes. But this is the case whenever *anyone* looks to create relationships that don't fit inside the (monogamous, monosexual) box.

Ya just gotta look a little harder to find folks who are willing to look at things a little differently.
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#42 of 48 Old 08-18-2007, 10:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Well, yes. But this is the case whenever *anyone* looks to create relationships that don't fit inside the (monogamous, monosexual) box.

Ya just gotta look a little harder to find folks who are willing to look at things a little differently.

Must remember to channel thismama when feeling the need for excessive on a post.
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#43 of 48 Old 08-18-2007, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yep, that happens to me all the time too, Amy.

Worse comes to worst, and it's true that no one will ever have sex with me let alone be my girlfriend (sob!) I can become the female Morrissey and make millions. (See senior title.)
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#44 of 48 Old 08-19-2007, 03:53 AM
 
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I don't want to hijack your thread so I'll try to keep this as short as I can.

After years of wondering, telling myself "well I can't be a lesbian because of xxx or xxx or xxx or xxx", I finally came to the conclusion that since I am attracted to women only (yes I can identify attractiveness in men but it is like seeing a splendid racehorse or an excellent example of a dog breed), only truly enjoy sex in an interactive way with women, etc etc, yes all of the xxx's didn't matter I am a lesbian. Nobody believed me because I had kids. Heh.

Then I met a woman, fell in love, she moved from Ontario to California to live together (I would have preferred to move to Canada but immigration was an issue), we were together for over 4 years. Even when the relationship was rocky, I still found a certain comfort level or satisfaction in that relationship, that had always been lacking with men.

We broke up. I didn't date anyone for a while, then I was sort of dating another woman. One night, after ummmm a lot of drinking lol : , I had what I thought was a one night stand with a man. The next morning he basically announced that he was my boyfriend. I sort of mentally shrugged and decided what the h*ll. He was well aware that I id'd as a lesbian as I had refused some of his friends and was very open about it. Heck, I have the Labrys tattoo and the tasteful but openly gay bumper sticker.

Very shortly thereafter I became pregnant. I decided to try to maintain this as a viable relationship. After all, I have never been into labels, maybe I was limiting myself-so I told myself.

It is very tense and stressful. It's like expecting a cat to act like a dog or something. Even cats who do act like dogs, are obviously still cats and there are just differences. That is not a matter of labels. If you say your cat IS a dog, it is still a cat.

I applaud you for having the ability and desire to work it out with your husband as you outlined. I think it could work fine, and I don't think it will be impossible for you to find a woman who is not averse to the situation. I wouldn't have any problem with a situation as you described.
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#45 of 48 Old 08-19-2007, 04:05 AM
 
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Oh, we also don't sleep in the same room. We don't even keep the same schedule or have the same days off (by my choice; we work for the same company but I was able to choose what day or days I wanted off, I chose one, not on his day off). We have DTD 3 times since the baby was born, last time being in May.
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#46 of 48 Old 08-24-2007, 04:14 PM
 
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Well BSD, I'm gonna flame you.



Just kidding! BSD! I had no idea about you! Cool! Congrats mama! Congrats on finding and accepting yourself.

I came out when my son was 3. I think my mom being gay prevented me from realizing that I was gay. I simply thought that all those fantasies about women I had while growing up was totally normal!
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#47 of 48 Old 08-24-2007, 05:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama View Post
Well, yes. But this is the case whenever *anyone* looks to create relationships that don't fit inside the (monogamous, monosexual) box.

Ya just gotta look a little harder to find folks who are willing to look at things a little differently.
For sure. I've just been burned a time or three, and I know I'm not the only one. I'm even MORE cautious with women partnered with men who are showing an interest in me than I'd be otherwise.

Hypothetically, of course, since I'm one of those boring monogamously partnered lesbos.
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#48 of 48 Old 08-28-2007, 06:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by skyastara View Post
It is very tense and stressful. It's like expecting a cat to act like a dog or something. Even cats who do act like dogs, are obviously still cats and there are just differences. That is not a matter of labels. If you say your cat IS a dog, it is still a cat.
that's it!!! Thanks for this thread. I'm in the same boat except for one major difference, which is that dh is completely homophobic and unaccepting of who i am, so i basically just keep on acting like a dog and get more and more disconnected from my inner cat (haha)! Seriously though -- it's no fun, and BSD, i think you are aware that you are SO LUCKY that your dh has a clue and is open and and supportive. What a great gift to have a co-parent and friend like him! I'm sure you'll make it through the next few years just fine. Good luck to all of us kitties.
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