Scared to vax AND scared not to vax - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I am just so confused. my DD is now 3 months old and I haven't had her get any vax yet, but I still haven't really made up my mind about the issue. I've just been prcrastinating and pushing off my pediatrician.

I've done enough research at this point to be terrified either way. I'm scared of giving her any vax and her reacting badly or having increased health issues later in life.....

But I'm also terrified of seeing her possibly getting super ill with one of these scary illnesses also.

Is there anyone who partially vaccinated their kids-- if so what did you choose to vax against and why or why not?

I really need some help here. I am so torn and I don't know what to do!

1st Time Mum to Lorelai (09-25-03)

Crunchy Mama to the Triad of Chaos-- DD1 (9/03) & the Twinadoes- DS and DD2 (6/06)
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#2 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 04:38 PM
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Kate, I had the advantage of researching before my baby was born. This way I had months to read before anyone would pressure me or even ask about vaccines.

I've done enough research at this point to be terrified either way.
tells me you need to keep researching.

Which diseases do you find so scary? Perhaps you could start researching them and find out not only the incidence of these diseases, but treatment for them. For example, there is a TON of great stuff on pertussis here, you can do a search. And read and follow Trabot's cheat sheet.

Good luck! Knowledge is power!
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#3 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 06:03 PM
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I feel exactly the same way you do. I just can't make up my mind...I'm scared either way.

I end up always giving the Hib. With my baby, my fourth (4.5 months old), I let them give her Hib and Prevnar. She got her Hib booster at four months, and I'm debating whether or not she should get the Prevnar booster. I am very frightened of Prevnar, but I am also terrified of meningitis. I am also considering the DTaP. Both my mainstream pediatrician and the wholisitic ped. I saw strongly suggest I get this one because of the incidence of pertussis, though from what I've read just as many vaxed. kids as unvaxed. kids come down with this.

I know I haven't been any help, but I just wanted you to know that I am in the exact same boat as you.

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#4 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 06:27 PM
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I am relieved to say that hib and prevnar vaxes were not around when my first two were being vaccinated, nor were Hep B, Hep A or varicella.

So it was easy to be more wary of those when they were introduced, since my first two did fine without them.

I breastfed my babies and kept them out of daycare. When I had my 3rd child in 1995, many new vaccines had been added to the schedule and i wondered why when my first two did fine without them.

When my fourth baby was born in 1999, even more vaccines had been added, and 1 recalled (rotashield) ~ then he suffered several problems after his 6 month round.

I found that drs are great at denying vaccine relation, but not very good at finding a cause, but they are sure that even though they don't have a clue what happened, whatever it is couldn't have been caused by the vaccine. The fact that they won't even look makes me very suspicious. I declined all further vaccines until I could get some answers, and the more I read, I am finding out that the answers just aren't there. By the time my fifth child was born (had my first at 24, my "last" at 42) I was so disillusioned w/the whole medico that I declined every single procedure, and had to go through 5 copies of birth plans to accomplish that...I declined all vaccines.

Now my youngest is 15 months old and hasn't been sick yet, but I am told that the "average" child can have up to 10-12 colds a year! Not even my vaccinated children get sick that much.

My son born in 1999 had his holey heart repaired and too small right lung removed when he was six weeks old. He was recovering wonderfully and gaining well, no complications whatsoever, until his 3rd round of shots given when he was 7.5 months old. Downhill from there.

It's been a long road back from that day, 9/27/99, but overall, I have to say, he has been much healthier than all the other kids his age I know, give or take a few years, and those are kids sporting two lungs and a healthy heart.

Based on what I have read, it seems the drs are more able to diagnose ( and treat ) a vaccine preventable disease

than they are a complication induced by the vaccine given to prevent disease.

And that makes me more fearful of the vaccines, who have no protocol when it comes to vaccine reactions.

I weighed the risks benefits, and for my family, the benefits of vaccines do not outweigh the risks.


"If it takes a lab to make it, it takes a lab to digest it". Kris Carr, Hungry For Change
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#5 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 08:04 PM
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...I am also interested in those questions. Well, here are just a few of the sites I've found. I would not vaccinate against polio because there are no cases of polio in the US except in vaccinated children.


From the last link:

American health authorities are considering a complete change of policy in the face of strong evidence that all cases of polio are caused by the polio vaccine.
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#6 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 08:11 PM
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I think when you start to do the research and see the actual numbers of the diseases you will see that they aren't as prevalant as you might fear....

here is my cheat sheet. I normally only post the link, but I can see that there might be some other moms who want to read it too and may feel inclined to skip it if I just post the link

(NOTE TO MODS...Don't worry I'm not going to start eating up the bandwidth usual I'll normally post the link.)


The other vax list:

I decided to put together a list of links and books for those people who periodically ask me for vax information. When I say vax information I mean the “other” vax information.

There is one general vax assumption out there which pulsates like a drum beat….it says, “JUST DO IT.” I don’t need to support that message there are plenty of ways one can get that information. This list I’ve come up with are for those people who are questioning vaxing and the possible long term effects of it….. (we are a growing lot, by the way) anyway, here are the links I learned about from friends or my own researching…then when I got to mother dot com I learned about even more links from likeminded moms.

For me, I think the first place to begin is with hard numbers.

Just how many cases of all these vax-diseases do we get here in the united states? (by the way, if you are out of the us I recommend you search your country’s online stats)

This is one of the hardest to find pages at the cdc… the way that I actually found this page was by accident. I had called the CDC to find out about hib cases and I got a doctor and he sent me to this page…

if you download the current issue it gives you the most uptodate stat that the cdc has on the reportable diseases. I would start there first.

Then these links are valuable for information about vaxes and vax damages and other associations with vaccines.


Here is Sheri Nakken's site...her site is loaded with info.
This organization is not necessarily where you go for vax information, but this is an institute that is passionately working on autism and helping parents and released the report last year about the epidemic proportion of autism in California. Caveat: the man who started this organization, his son developed autism after the MMR and he has been very vocal about such.

Going back to the topic of “hard numbers” …

one of the smartest things a friend of mine who doesn’t vax said over and over again when I started to question vaxing (before my son was born) “start to figure out what your child is really at risk of getting.” And then weigh the risks of the vax to the real risks of getting the disease.

For example:
I live in a county with ten million people. Ten million people, that’s a lot. The last figures available online from the county health department were for 1999. That year there was one (1) case of measles reported. It was in a 44 year old woman.

There were also 250 cases of pertussis, (whooping cough) 250 out of 10 million is not much of a stat and then when I looked closer at the records I saw that of the 250 people, a certain percentage were children and of those children most had been vaxed for the disease. Only two children of the 250 were not vaxed and they were in a poor neighborhood with poor nutrition and possibly weakened immunity…Again in a county of ten million. Also, periodically there are reports that come out stating that a city is experiencing an “epidemic” of pertussis. But what the article doesn’t always say is the number of pertussis cases that make an epidemic and of those cases many are in vaxed or partially vaxed children. There is an assumption made that it is always non vaxed children who get pertussis or are responsible for the rise of the disease. I hate that assumption and I really hate reporters who don’t do their homework.

I actually wonder if my own pediatrician knows those numbers… he probably does not…because that is the kind of research only parents who question have the dedication to find out….

More stats to consider

If you have gotten this far in your research then you probably already know that there are issues around MMR vax, in particular autism, etc… but here are the stats on getting the actual diseases….

roughly the cases per year in the US of the following
measles 40
mumps 600
rubella 300 of those
moms who caught it and gave CRS to their children is 25

and the united states population is about 250 million people!

5 cases of diptheria per year

and Polio has been eradicated in the western hemisphere

And this discussion board:

Anyway, mothers on mdc have many hours of research in each of them… here are some informative links to those discussions..

and this thread is very important in my opinion…even if you decide to vax…please, please, please..don’t ever do it after antibiotics…delay way, way, way after..

And speaking of Mothering… some back issues of the magazine have been completely dedicated to this issue and I recommend you poke around at this site and see if you might want to pick up some.

Get thy butt to Amazon

And finally here are books with the links, which are very, very and very important to know about…read, study etc…. I started with Nuestadder’s book but I encourage you to check out the amazon links and see where you want to start.. (note: I provided the links to amazon..but if you want to help, please consider purchasing the books via Powell’s books which you will find the link here on…a portion of the purchase will come back to mothering)

· The Vaccine Guide: Making an Informed Choice by Randall Neustaedter, Randall the Immunization Decision Neusdaedter (Paperback)
· How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor by Robert S. Mendelsohn (Paperback)
· Confessions of a Medical Heretic by Robert S. Mendelsohn (Paperback)
· A Shot in the Dark: Why the P in the Dpt Vaccination May Be Hazardous to Your Child's Health by Harris L. Coulter, Barbara Loe Fisher (Paperback)
· Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective by Neil Z. ******, et al (Paperback)
· The Immunization Resource Guide : Where to Find Answers to All Your Questions about Childhood Vaccinations by Diane Rozario (Paperback)
· What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations by Stephanie Cave, Deborah Mitchell (Contributor) (Paperback)

· Smart Medicine for a Healthier Child: A Practical A-To-Z Reference to Natural and Conventional Treatments for Infants and Children by Janet Zand, et al (Paperback)
· I should say, this book is pro-vax..which I am not thrilled about…but the other stuff is very, very helpful)
· Vaccinations: A Thoughtful Parent's Guide: How to Make Safe, Sensible Decisions about the Risks, Benefits, and Alternatives by Aviva Jill Romm (Paperback)

· The Sanctity of Human Blood: Vaccination Is Not Immunization - Sixth Edition - 2003 -- Tim O'Shea; Paperback
· Naturally Healthy Babies & Children: A Commonsense Guide to Herbal Remedies by Aviva Jill Romm, William Sears (Paperback)


good luck and happy researching!

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#7 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 09:16 PM
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Hi Kate (it's me, Donna). Hope you and Lorelei are doing well. I didn't do my research until Millie was almost a year (still doing research now). She got pretty much all hers up to a year (due to ignorance on my part), except the MMR, which she will not be getting. Also, I think we're pretty much done with vaccines altogether at this point. If I'd done my research before she was born, I would have possibly only gotten the DTaP, (due to pertussis) and possibly Hib. I still need to research prevnar a little more (for next baby, whenever that may be). I spend a lot of time wondering if her excema is due to vaccines. The archives here are very helpful.

Hope to see you at playgroup in January! Happy Holidays!
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#8 of 14 Old 12-15-2003, 09:45 PM
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You are not alone by any means. My dd is 3 and I still have my reservations. I struggled alot over this. I am still learning and researching every day. I talked iwth my nana about the DREADED diseases and she talked about them so calmly. She also said you know my dear we NEVER had babies die like you young moms today. She said it was rare to finda baby dead in there crib and she said i dont think i ever heard of Cancer or diabetes in babies. she said so yo must be on to something my dear follow your heart. I have learned that my gut is telling me something and I should listen.

I seized after my 15 mo old shots then 2 mo later began loosing my hair.
My 1st born seized at 15 mo and spent countless times in hospital with her asthma and sky rocketing white cell count. fully vaxed
2nd born cried for countless hours after her vaccines and would pass out cold and turn blue she now has several learning problems no boosters
3rd born didnt seem to react to much alothough he ended up with Mono epstien barr at 3 and doctor was amazed said they dont see that often in children that young I wonder if its not vaccine related no boosters
4t no vaccines
A dr when she was born told us NOt to give Hep b at birth he was concerned about Mercury I couldnt believe it and vowed to NEVER vax until i understood what the heck he was talking about and she is still vax free cause i still dont understand lol.

I cant say I am always comfortable with it I have my days some are worse than others.
The only illness we have seen is Pertussis.
I know i probably didnt help much but you arent alone.
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#9 of 14 Old 12-16-2003, 02:53 AM
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Kate, my Eliza was born the same day as your Lorelia .

So far she had the hepb at birth, dh okayed it because we hadn't started vax research yet. She has received nothing else and not sure if she ever will. Although I have thought about the rubella only not the whole mmr when she is school age or older to protect her in case she has children but I will reevaluate when the time comes.

I asked the ped some questions but she went around them and didn't really answer me and seemed a bit "defensive" but in the end didn't push them and said it's my choice so I didn't fire her :LOL.

My older 2 are vaxed(ds 5 and dd1 is 22 months) but I'm not allowing anymore boosters. Daria had what they call a mild reaction and I don't want to chance a more serious one.

If you want anymore info than what I said here I can elaborate on my experiences later but I really must put my butt in bed .
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#10 of 14 Old 12-16-2003, 02:58 AM
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I forgot to add, what really made me decide was the amount of supposed sids deaths these days.One of the vax links (sorry can't remember which one) said alot of sids deaths are severe vax reactions but are listed as sids. Older relatives of mine said it didn't happen in their day and my very heathly grandma said all they vaxed for when she was growing up was diptheria and smallpox and her and her many siblings made it to their respective old ages just fine.
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#11 of 14 Old 12-16-2003, 01:31 PM
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Hi Kate,
I understand exactly how you feel, I was in your shoes when Katie (my 2 yo) was first born. She had one Hep B before I ever thought to look into the vaccine issue. I just got a horrible feeling while they were giving her that shot (like they were poisoning her)! So I went home and started reading up on the net and got a few books to read and told myself I'd put her shots off until 6mos, then a year.

I was reading into both sides of the issue because what I wanted was someone to convince me that it was ok, and she would be fine, and my fears were irrational. No matter what I read, provax message boards, web sites, books, I could not in good conscience give my daughter an injection full of chemicals and compounds that I would never let her put into her mouth!

It took a year of reasearching at least part of every day for me to feel totally confident in my decision. If she does get one of those illnesses, I have faith in her immune system that is still intact, and I know a great homeopath.

The more info you gather, the more confident you will feel with your decision either way. Take some time to research. You don't have to do anything right now, and good luck with your decision!

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#12 of 14 Old 12-16-2003, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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...for your support. Luckily I started looking into this before she was born, so she hasn't had any shots yet. I'm just so worried about this whole thing. I am going to continue to do the research and I hope to keep an open dialogue with our pediatrician. So far they've said they'll work with us.

I am confident on declining some of the shots like Hep B (my DH and I are already vax'd and it's not like she's sleeping around at 3 months old, for god's sake) and varicella. I guess I need to read more about the other diseases and maybe then I'll feel about them like I feel about the varicella vaccine (geez, it's only chickenpox, what's the big deal?).

I'm just a first time mom who's terrified of making the wrong decision here and having to watch my daughter reap the consequences of that decision.

So thanks again for the info and support,

Crunchy Mama to the Triad of Chaos-- DD1 (9/03) & the Twinadoes- DS and DD2 (6/06)
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#13 of 14 Old 12-16-2003, 08:41 PM
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trabot, i just wanted to let you know that the amazon links on you cheat sheet no longer work.

thanks for this invaluable resource you've put together there!
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#14 of 14 Old 12-16-2003, 09:14 PM
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thanks for the update. I will go clean up the amazon links...I guess they reformulated them.


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