What are the biggest more impressive arguments for Pro vaxers? - Page 13 - Mothering Forums
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#361 of 433 Old 01-06-2007, 10:42 PM
 
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One of many "justifications" the CDC used when they were trying to get the ACIP votes for the second dose recommendation:

•Public Perspective

–The increasing prevalence of breakthrough infections has affected the public confidence in immunizations in general, not just varicella immunization
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#362 of 433 Old 01-06-2007, 10:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Plummeting View Post
And it's the same for both the mumps vaccine and the pertussis vaccine. The pertussis vaccine rarely even prevents infection in the fully vaccinated (a lot less than 60% of the time, when all the evidence is taken into consideration) so not only can it not provide herd immunity, it can't even provide individual immunity. So docs who guilt trip parents into getting the Tdap to protect their infants are lying vax-pushers.
I don't even think the docs know they're lying, honestly. These wacky, scientifically unsound provaccine ideas come from the public health authorities.
The doctors just regurgitiate what they've been fed without stopping to ask "Hey...is this true?"
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#363 of 433 Old 01-06-2007, 10:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LongIsland View Post
One of many "justifications" the CDC used when they were trying to get the ACIP votes for the second dose recommendation:

•Public Perspective

–The increasing prevalence of breakthrough infections has affected the public confidence in immunizations in general, not just varicella immunization
Why does that fill my soul with a tiny bit of glee?

:
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#364 of 433 Old 01-06-2007, 10:46 PM
 
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Okay, ignorant vax-pushers. To me, if they're selling a product without even possessing full knowledge of it, they're pushers. A doctor should only be providing treatments that he or she is familiar with and well-versed in. They shouldn't just be parroting whatever crap the gov't tells them to, you know?
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#365 of 433 Old 01-06-2007, 10:47 PM
 
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You guys are cracking me up tonight.
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#366 of 433 Old 01-06-2007, 11:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Plummeting View Post
Okay, ignorant vax-pushers. To me, if they're selling a product without even possessing full knowledge of it, they're pushers. A doctor should only be providing treatments that he or she is familiar with and well-versed in. They shouldn't just be parroting whatever crap the gov't tells them to, you know?

Haha...I just realised that coming to terms with the fact that there's something seriously wrong with the mass immunization program is sort of like going through the stages of grief.

denial...anger...acceptance....

Lol...I've worked through the anger stage (for the most part, although the CDC does raise my bloodpressure sometimes, still)...

ETA:
I was sort of joking, but I actually think it might be true...
http://www.counselingforloss.com/article8.htm

As an example, apply the 5 stages to a traumatic event most all of us have experienced: The Dead Battery! You're going to be late to work so you rush out to your car, place the key in the ignition and turn it on. You hear nothing but a grind; the battery is dead.

Quote:
DENIAL --- What's the first thing you do? You try to start it again! And again. You may check to make sure the radio, heater, lights, etc. are off and then..., try again.
"There is no way docors would give kids shots if they weren't good for them. These antivaxes have to be insane!"
Quote:
ANGER --- "%$@^##& car!", "I should have junked you years ago." Did you slam your hand on the steering wheel? I have. "I should just leave you out in the rain and let you rust."
"OMG allopathic medicine is EVIL!"
Quote:
BARGAINING --- (realizing that you're going to be late for work)..., "Oh please car, if you will just start one more time I promise I'll buy you a brand new battery, get a tune up, new tires, belts and hoses, and keep you in perfect working condition.
"Ok...maybe I should start vaxing when she turns two..."
Quote:
DEPRESSION --- "Oh God, what am I going to do. I'm going to be late for work. I give up. My job is at risk and I don't really care any more. What's the use".
"We're doomed...Big Pharma is going to kill us all..."
Quote:
ACCEPTANCE --- "Ok. It's dead. Guess I had better call the Auto Club or find another way to work. Time to get on with my day; I'll deal with this later."
"Whatever. Doctors are just a little bit brainwashed..."
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#367 of 433 Old 01-07-2007, 03:03 AM
 
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Mamakay, I agree with your assessment.
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#368 of 433 Old 01-07-2007, 02:08 PM
 
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Actually, I would avoid other close social situations with everyone who wasn't fully aware that my child had been exposed. I would never, ever knowingly expose an immunocompromised child. I would not keep DD home from the park (unless DD was the kind of kid who liked to play with strange kids - she's not, so there's practically zero chance of her getting close enough to a stranger to spread disease) or the grocery store because of exposure to something. However, we would avoid LLL meetings, playdates, birthday parties, etc., unless everyone knew and was comfortable with her attendance.
Ditto for us.

Michelle
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#369 of 433 Old 01-07-2007, 06:57 PM
 
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Mamakay,

Excellent analysis. Dead on. Getting to the acceptance stage can be long and arduous. Grief is different for everyone and sometimes we flip flop from one stage to another but acceptance does feel pretty good. I still get angry every once in a while when I see the outright lies and manipulation because I know children are suffering as a result, but then I remind myself that every human being has to live his/her own life and parent in the way he/she knows best.

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. - Oscar Wilde
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#370 of 433 Old 01-07-2007, 07:05 PM
 
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I'm late in coming into this thread but what I notice is that those who research and still vax are wanting to hand over responsibility. If you vax and your child becomes sick as a result, society as a whole doesn't blame the parent. If you don't vax and your child becomes sick as a result you as the parent are fully blamed. I've researched, don't vax my kids, and am happy to take full responsibility for my actions.

Cheers
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#371 of 433 Old 01-08-2007, 12:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Second, for people who don't know much history, geography and demographics, it looks as though vaxes really did "save" us. And if we stop vaxing we will be unsaved, obviously.
Sorry to be a little OT here, but could you please provide me with some references for this. I have a friend who's only argument for vaxing is that that's why we don't have any of these diseases anymore! She's scared that when our children are together, her child will get something from my child because mine is not vaxed : The ignorance there is astounding! Any references would be great!
Thanks, Leslie
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#372 of 433 Old 01-08-2007, 02:17 AM
 
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No - Chicken pox is back and it's soooooo dangerous!!! (joking!)
4 children in my church have had it in the past 1 -2 months, age range 16months to 5 years old.
Not one were vaccinated against it, all had minor cold symptoms and of course the itchy spots. Felt 'off colour', not sick and vomitting and near death as the media would have you believe. The youngest (16 m o girl) caught it off her sister and has a slight temp, runny nose and about 3 spots!
The only problem has been the eldest child (5 yr o boy) has scabs from scratching his face.
My DD has been around these kids a fair bit and has had a slight cold that lasted almost a week, low grade fever one night and a rash on her tummy/chest. I don't think she has caught it though, but to tell the truth after seeing how mild it actually is I wouldn't care even if she did catch it. I had it a few years ago (I was 16) and I can't remember being sick at all, just embarrassed because I looked spotty!

So, yes, get your children vaccinated against this horrendous disease! The condition of these 4 children is something I never want to see again in my life.....
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#373 of 433 Old 01-08-2007, 02:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wild&precious life View Post
Sorry to be a little OT here, but could you please provide me with some references for this. I have a friend who's only argument for vaxing is that that's why we don't have any of these diseases anymore! She's scared that when our children are together, her child will get something from my child because mine is not vaxed : The ignorance there is astounding! Any references would be great!
Thanks, Leslie
http://mothering.com/discussions/sho...d.php?t=431651

I bumped up this thread.

Other recently published material that relates:
The Ghost Map

This is the story of how someone figured out that a particular pump was causing a cholera epidemic in London.
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#374 of 433 Old 01-08-2007, 04:44 PM
 
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No - Chicken pox is back and it's soooooo dangerous!!! (joking!)
4 children in my church have had it in the past 1 -2 months, age range 16months to 5 years old.
Not one were vaccinated against it, all had minor cold symptoms and of course the itchy spots. Felt 'off colour', not sick and vomitting and near death as the media would have you believe. The youngest (16 m o girl) caught it off her sister and has a slight temp, runny nose and about 3 spots!
The only problem has been the eldest child (5 yr o boy) has scabs from scratching his face.
My DD has been around these kids a fair bit and has had a slight cold that lasted almost a week, low grade fever one night and a rash on her tummy/chest. I don't think she has caught it though, but to tell the truth after seeing how mild it actually is I wouldn't care even if she did catch it. I had it a few years ago (I was 16) and I can't remember being sick at all, just embarrassed because I looked spotty!

So, yes, get your children vaccinated against this horrendous disease! The condition of these 4 children is something I never want to see again in my life.....
Quit spreadin' those lies, aussie...
Don't you know the varicella vaccine is a victim of it's own success? We all aren't terrified of chickenpox because we don't remember the horrors.
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#375 of 433 Old 01-08-2007, 05:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
Quit spreadin' those lies, aussie...
Don't you know the varicella vaccine is a victim of it's own success? We all aren't terrified of chickenpox because we don't remember the horrors.
The main communicable disease going around this thread is sarcasm!
[said with a total absence of sarcasm, of course]
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#376 of 433 Old 01-08-2007, 05:19 PM
 
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Quit spreadin' those lies, aussie...
Don't you know the varicella vaccine is a victim of it's own success? We all aren't terrified of chickenpox because we don't remember the horrors.
Clearly some of you don't remember the horrors. I do. I was 3. I thought I would be the ugliest little girl in the world for the rest of my life, because I had spots on my face. Do you know how horrifying that was?

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#377 of 433 Old 01-08-2007, 06:43 PM
 
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Clearly some of you don't remember the horrors.
Too right I don't remember. I was one and half. My sister had it and was jealous I was well and got to play, so she shared a lollipop with me to make sure I got it. We've been best friends ever since
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#378 of 433 Old 01-09-2007, 12:44 PM
 
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I was looking through a mainstream baby magazine and under the letters to the editor, I came across a letter written in response to a "Don't Wait to Vaccinate!!!!" article, and this person couldn't understand why "educated" parents would choose to not vax. : And she was thrilled about the rotavirus vaccine. The only rotavirus vax that I knew of was the one that caused bowel obstructions. Did I miss the arrival of yet another new vax???
Why can't magazines besides Mothering have the risks of vaxing???? It boggles my mind.
I was watching a show on tv last night and in the half hour period I watched, I saw THREE vax commercials. All for the HPV vax.
It just amazes me, and I wonder why people so blindly listen to doctors. It upsets me because I used to do just that.

Michelle
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#379 of 433 Old 01-09-2007, 01:03 PM
 
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Yup, there's a new rotavirus vax.
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#380 of 433 Old 01-09-2007, 04:39 PM
 
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Yup, there's a new rotavirus vax.
And another one on the way.
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#381 of 433 Old 01-09-2007, 04:46 PM
 
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And another one on the way.
After what happened with the last one why would any parent request that vax?? How many examples do people need? My daughter had one reaction - and yep, that one time was enough for me to stop.

Michelle
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#382 of 433 Old 01-09-2007, 09:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MichelleS
After what happened with the last one why would any parent request that vax??
Most don't bother to even know what their babies are getting - why would they know about the problems?

I'm guessing those who are "fully informed" have read the CDC page that says the new one is safe.
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#383 of 433 Old 01-10-2007, 11:31 AM
 
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Unless you are actually staying on top of vaccine info, there is no way to know what is going on. Parents who were concerned about the rotavirus fiasco several years ago may have forgotten (unless their baby was one of the injured or killed), and a lot of people probably either didn't hear about it, or didn't keep the concern in the front of their minds.

We are a weird minority here. Need to keep that in mind.
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#384 of 433 Old 01-11-2007, 10:41 AM
 
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Unless you are actually staying on top of vaccine info, there is no way to know what is going on. Parents who were concerned about the rotavirus fiasco several years ago may have forgotten (unless their baby was one of the injured or killed), and a lot of people probably either didn't hear about it, or didn't keep the concern in the front of their minds.

We are a weird minority here. Need to keep that in mind.
How unfortunate that only a "weird minority" of people actually care about and investigate what doctors want to put in their children's bodies. :

Michelle
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#385 of 433 Old 01-11-2007, 11:35 AM
 
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This may have already been said (I am still reading through this thread!), but I am amazed when people shut down my arguements that support not vaxing because they think I just read some weird, obscure website. In reality, all the info I read on here from LI, MT, Gitti, etc are on the CDC website and from "esteemed" medical journals. The info is there. People just choose not to get educated (and I don't mean that to be snotty- I was one of those people until my DS#2 had an adverse reaction).
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#386 of 433 Old 01-11-2007, 07:16 PM
 
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I think that people trust their peds way more than they should. They don't take it upon themselves to learn and research the topic. But people do tend to think you are crazy for not vaxing and for not following a doctor's advice word for word.
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#387 of 433 Old 01-11-2007, 08:59 PM
 
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In reality, all the info I read on here from LI, MT, Gitti, etc are on the CDC website and from "esteemed" medical journals.
: They put my posts on the CDC now? Ewww, that's scary. :

I only post from common sense and personal experience.
They got any of THAT over there? :

Maybe there's hope for those guys at the CDC after all?

Na, I doubt it. :
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#388 of 433 Old 01-11-2007, 09:35 PM
 
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Well, Gitti, obviously you have something right, because I ALWAYS double check my info so I have something to back it up, and I can find a lot of reasons to not vax on the CDC website!

Hey, maybe they're reading MDC and learning something from you guys!
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#389 of 433 Old 01-11-2007, 09:48 PM
 
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But people do tend to think you are crazy for not vaxing and for not following a doctor's advice word for word.
oh surely you're familiar with the phrase doctor's orders? Seriously, that's how it's viewed. Who else would you pay to give you orders.
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#390 of 433 Old 01-11-2007, 10:34 PM
 
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This may have already been said (I am still reading through this thread!), but I am amazed when people shut down my arguements that support not vaxing because they think I just read some weird, obscure website. In reality, all the info I read on here from LI, MT, Gitti, etc are on the CDC website and from "esteemed" medical journals. The info is there. People just choose not to get educated (and I don't mean that to be snotty- I was one of those people until my DS#2 had an adverse reaction).
This is exactly the response I get from friends & family. It's utterly frustrating. I try to point them to the gov't websites themselves as the most damning evidence of all, but they refuse to believe that could be the case and refuse to visit them. I am so angry at my parents right now -- they want to argue this vax issue left and right but do NOT want to bother researching the other side. After our intense hospital experience with DD this week I am getting so much flack. To hell with people who want to argue a point without researching.

I feel so alone in all this.
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