EMERGENCY military legal help - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My dh is in the airforce and just refused to take the flumist. He told the dr that he was willing to take the shot but not the mist b/c it's live and we have young children at home. All his superiors have been contacted and his supervisor told him that he's facing an acticle 15, loss of pay and loss of rank. I don't even know what kind of lawyer to look for or what to do. We could really use advice, ASAP.
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#2 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:13 PM
 
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i am so sorry! my DH is USAF also. he took the flumist. my understanding is that the military family member has almost no legal options. we just gave in. good luck!
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#3 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:15 PM
 
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your youngest is nearly one, is that correct? do you have any health issues/immunocompromised/etc.?

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#4 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:19 PM
 
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DH is Army. Your DH cannot refuse to take the vax, sorry. He is essentially government property. He will most likely be given an article 15, as he is disobeying a direct order by now.

Sorry.

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#5 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Our youngest will be 2 at the end of jan. Both our boys have cleft palates but nothing officially immune compromised.
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#6 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:23 PM
 
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in that case, there aren't any "official" contraindications to him receiving the flumist. i'm sorry.

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#7 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMiller View Post
DH is Army. Your DH cannot refuse to take the vax, sorry. He is essentially government property. He will most likely be given an article 15, as he is disobeying a direct order by now.

Sorry.
But he's not refusing the vax.... he just wants to take the shot instead of the live virus.
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#8 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:51 PM
 
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I want to know why on earth the DOD has mandated one over the other. Is the Flumist cheaper? Do they have a contract? This is just silly, since he's willing to do the shot. It'll be interesting to see what they tell my dh. He's willing to do the mist, even, if they'll wait til the kids and I leave town around the first. But I have a sneaking hunch they're going to try to refuse to defer him a week and a half, just to make a point. Grrrr.
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#9 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:55 PM
 
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There is no way that he is going to be able to get out of it and he should take it seriously, because I know from personal experience (I am a former Marine Corps Legal Officer) what will happen to him if he refuses. It's crappy, but it is done for the best of the service and when you are in the service you have to follow their rules or face the consequences, which may seem extreme. That is just how it is.

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#10 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 07:56 PM
 
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I sure don't blame him for not taking it!! DH just took it (USAF) and he was sick for TWO WEEKS afterward. It was awful.

Unfortunately there is little to nothing you can do. I'd call the JAG office on base and ask about your options but truthfully you are in a bind here.
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#11 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 08:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jwpsgurl View Post
There is no way that he is going to be able to get out of it and he should take it seriously, because I know from personal experience (I am a former Marine Corps Legal Officer) what will happen to him if he refuses. It's crappy, but it is done for the best of the service and when you are in the service you have to follow their rules or face the consequences, which may seem extreme. That is just how it is.
If their concern is really the best for the service, why not let him take the alternate vax, the one everyone took until recently?
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#12 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 08:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bonbonne View Post
If their concern is really the best for the service, why not let him take the alternate vax, the one everyone took until recently?
Did your husband contact the med group commander to ask this specific question? Nobody on here knows the EXACT reason as to "WHY?" We can only speculate --- financial motivations, supply issues, etc. So I would call the med group and speak to the ranking med group commander and you and your DH should go in and find out the reasoning. It might be a simple, "We don't have the other vaccination on hand." If that is the case, find out if you can go off base. Keep knocking on doors, calling people, and don't give up!! We fight med group all the time!
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#13 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 08:15 PM
 
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I would think he could go to a civilian doctor and pay out of pocket for the visit and the shot. The shot is also available at a lot of retail drug stores such as walmart, target, walgreens with out a doctors visit. The flu mist studies has shown to be more effective than the flu shot so that may be why the military wants the flumist now. My DH is air force and he just had the flu mist too but last year he paid for the flu shot at the health dept. flu clinic. This was ok with the air force. It may be worth it to see if it is ok if he pays out of pocket at a civilian provider.
In studies of day care providers recieving the flu mist the vaccine is contagious to the children and some of the children had immune responses such as low grade fever and runny noses. But studies of immunity to the flu showed those children exposed to the flu mist were less likey to get the flu during an outbreak in the daycare. No adverse affects were shown in the small studies reported. (if that makes you feel a little better) I read this in an infectious disease medical journal last year. So I would not be able to send a link to the study online.

good luck!!!
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#14 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 08:29 PM
 
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I would try having him go to a clinic/Dr ASAP and try to get the shot there. Military members cannot refuse vaccination like a civilian can (former USAF here).

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#15 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 09:20 PM
 
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Not sure how reputable this site is, but... from mercola.com :

Quote:
Nobody, anywhere or any time and under any circumstances has the right or power in this country to immunize you or your children against your will and conviction. If they attempt to do so, you can legally charge them with "assault with a deadly weapon" and have the full resources of our laws behind you.
Quote:
At all times in attempting to avoid unwanted immunization, you have the Law of the Land behind you. Those who would try to vaccinate you against your will are on very shaky ground. Into every compulsory immunization law in America are written legal exceptions and waivers which are there specifically to protect you from the attempted tyranny of officialdom. It is not only your right, but your obligation to use them, if this is what your conscience tells you.

I'm guessing this doesn't count in the military? Very scary.

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#16 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 09:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bonbonne View Post
I want to know why on earth the DOD has mandated one over the other. Is the Flumist cheaper? Do they have a contract?
Officially it has to do with their supply but I wouldn't be surprised if efficacy didn't also contribute. This talks about it some:
http://www.ha.osd.mil/policies/2007/...e-20070927.pdf
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#17 of 20 Old 12-18-2007, 10:57 PM
 
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Officially it has to do with their supply but I wouldn't be surprised if efficacy didn't also contribute. This talks about it some:
http://www.ha.osd.mil/policies/2007/...e-20070927.pdf
Thank you very much for the info!
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#18 of 20 Old 12-19-2007, 01:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The whole thing is over. Dh got permission to get the flu shot at a civillian clinic. We finally found one that would take dh and 72.00 later he's got the vax. The one very good thing that came out of the drama of today is that we have decided to get out of the military for sure in the summer instead of re-enlisting. We have been debating it so much and now we know it's the right thing to do. Thanks for the quick info.
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#19 of 20 Old 12-19-2007, 07:10 AM
 
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That is what are going to do - pay for a civilian clinic to do the shot instead. I think the flumist is more expensive?? If so, in a time of war when the DoD schools are penniless, this is misappropriation of funds IMO. But like I said, I don't know if it is or isn't more/less expensive. My dh got it last year and I truly don't think he has ever been so sick.
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#20 of 20 Old 12-19-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Natural Mommy*J View Post
Not sure how reputable this site is, but... from mercola.com :

I'm guessing this doesn't count in the military? Very scary.
I don't find it scary. The military is volunteer. The mandatory immunizations are all part and parcel of what one signs up for when he or she enlists. Along with deployment, transfers on a whim, and the special military court system ilo the civilian one.

That being said - never did enlist, and I never would. Not that they would take me - I'm a broken down nag.
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