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#1 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok,
So maybe I'm a bit new to all this but so many times I've heard that low immunisation rates jeopardises the entire community - you know, if my unvaccinated daughter catches something then she's putting all the other kids at risk of catching it too. My doctor even supports that.
Is there something I'm missing?? To me it doesn't make sense, shouldn't the other kids be able to drink a cupful of her saliva (just an example, I'm not dishing her saliva up to ppl ) and still remain 'disease free'? Otherwise why are kids being vaccinated if it only works if 'everyone' is vaccinated. I know there's something I'm missing as I don't think my doctor went to med school for so many years that he contradicts himself when trying to put forward an arguement???

And also 'herd immunity' my daughter is only disease free because all the other kids around her are 'protecting' her. I thought she was disease free because she is healthy and hygienic (to some extent ) and that diseases can be spread even through dirt and animals?
Thanks everyone for your help!
Kiah
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#2 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:32 AM
 
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I believe the "your child is putting mine in danger" refers to babies and children who are not yet fully vaccinated. I have never heard it used with regard to a fully vaxed kid.

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#3 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:33 AM
 
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We all wonder...


And welcome!!
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#4 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, and thanks for the welcome. Ok, so it does make more sense (in a medical way) that my un-vax'd daughter could risk the health of another un-vax'd baby, that is assuming she actually has the disease.
My mum's a newly re-registered natural therapist (she retired for a few years to help support my dad in his career change) and all these things she taught us when we were younger are starting to make sense now. I was actually going to vax my daughter, she had Vit. K and Hep B shot at birth, but my mum said (just prior to my DD's 2 month vaccinations) that she would support my decision to vaccinate so long as i read up on it first. I thought all her info was old and outdated, plus doctors 'know everything'!:
I still hadn't read enough by the time Abby was due for her 2 months checkup, at which time the doc wanted to give her the shots, so i asked my mum to come with me and therefore she could ask all the really important questions and i could then 'gauge' who's arguement was more supported and convincing..... my doctor turned bright red and could not support a single arguement my mum put forward. He had no substantial data and from that point on I have been reading and talking to ppl on both sides to get some clear cut answers. I'm so glad for my mum suggesting I read up before I inject my daughter with any more of that cr@p!
Unfortunately tho when I try to tell others they get really defensive of vaccination, even tho they haven't read a single piece of paper or have only spoken to a pro-vax doctor.
Wow, that was really long!
Kiah
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#5 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:49 AM
 
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I see it from the other side of the coin, the vaxed kids are putting mine at risk from their shedding.
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#6 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by aussiekiah View Post
Ok,
... low immunisation rates jeopardises the entire community - you know, if my unvaccinated daughter catches something then she's putting all the other kids at risk of catching it too.
Well, as you can see for yourself this does not make sense. If the vaccinated kids are at risk of a disease then the vaccine is not working, is it?

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My doctor even supports that.
Of course he does. Vaccines are his bread a butter.


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Otherwise why are kids being vaccinated if it only works if 'everyone' is vaccinated.
It can only work if you can't compare to unvaccinated.
In a community where more then 95% of the kids were fully vaccinated, a measles epidemic broke out. The CDC said, measles is now a disease of fully vaccinated kids. That was their explanation.


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I know there's something I'm missing as I don't think my doctor went to med school for so many years that he contradicts himself when trying to put forward an arguement???
I don't think you can actually get them to discuss it or ague it because they will contradict themselves. They can only tell you what the vaccine manufacturer is telling them which is that studies they have done show that the vaccine works.


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And also 'herd immunity' my daughter is only disease free because all the other kids around her are 'protecting' her.
In order to have herd immunity you have to have 95% of all people fully and up to date on vaccines. That will never happen and is not realistic. Mostly because 95% of people are not going to get immunity from vaccines even if they were all willing to be updated on every single vaccine on the market every ca 5 yrs.

Herd immunity can only happen when the disease goes through a group of people naturally. The first generation will lose a lot of people due to the disease, but those who survive will have gained immunity to be passed on to their children. Then the next generation will have basic immunity from birth and be able to deal with the disease, gaining life long immunity themselves.

That is herd immunity.


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I thought she was disease free because she is healthy and hygienic (to some extent ) and that diseases can be spread even through dirt and animals?
Your dd is not be any more prone to disease than her vaccinated friends. And when she does have an infection she may spread it to others just like a vaccinated but sick child will.

Vaccinated kids will also spread the vaccine polio, which more than likely non-vaccinated kids do not spread.

Most studies are all a big lie and our doctors are trained to repeat what they are told the outcome is of those studies. They are not permitted to think for themselves.
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#7 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thankyou so much for all your answers, wow!
Do you think my doctor is really that stupid that he can't see the evidence before his eyes or hear what is coming out of his mouth, or he's just trying to 'cover up' because of monetary reasons?
That's interesting about the measles being a fully vax'd disease now.
Actually on the Australian Huggies website and mum has posted her 2 out of 3 sons have now had measles and are fully vaccinated and another mum replied saying her toddler actually caught the measles from the injection - and her doctor admitted this to her - that's a surprise!
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#8 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 12:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh,
also I don't know if you've checked out the Australian Vaccinated Network, but they put their findings forward in 1997 (? or 99?) which reported there were over 200 direct vaccine related deaths or injuries, and vaccine reaction reporting is only required in NSW (i think) which means the ACTUAL number is probably (or defineatly!) much, much higher!
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#9 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 01:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by aussiekiah View Post
Oh,
also I don't know if you've checked out the Australian Vaccinated Network, but they put their findings forward in 1997 (? or 99?) which reported there were over 200 direct vaccine related deaths or injuries, and vaccine reaction reporting is only required in NSW (i think) which means the ACTUAL number is probably (or defineatly!) much, much higher!
The reported side effects are usually considered to be only 10% of the actual figures.

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Do you think my doctor is really that stupid that he can't see the evidence before his eyes or hear what is coming out of his mouth, or he's just trying to 'cover up' because of monetary reasons?
No, they are not stupid. But they are afraid. They can't stand on their own. Peer pressure is tremendous. They will vaccinate their own kids just to prove that vaccines are safe. Sometimes I think they will be the last ones to vaccinate.
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#10 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by aussiekiah View Post
Oh,
also I don't know if you've checked out the Australian Vaccinated Network, but they put their findings forward in 1997 (? or 99?) which reported there were over 200 direct vaccine related deaths or injuries, and vaccine reaction reporting is only required in NSW (i think) which means the ACTUAL number is probably (or defineatly!) much, much higher!
None of which, by the way, ended up in the 'official' medical reports that keep running deaths figure at straight zero year after year and barely any 'serious' adverse events after vaccination :
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Do you think my doctor is really that stupid that he can't see the evidence before his eyes or hear what is coming out of his mouth, or he's just trying to 'cover up' because of monetary reasons?
In Australia, there is a definite monetary factor. Otherwise, they are just telling you what they have been taught. And, as you have seen, many of them were not taught all that well, if they couldn't support their statements when challenged .
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#11 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 01:03 PM
 
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Go here for an animated explanation of herd immunity...
http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=78
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#12 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 01:22 PM
 
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Problem with herd immunity is that it works for sure if enough of the population have had the disease, but herd immunity through vax is more doubtful.

What they don't mention is

Vax immunity (such as it is) can wane, leaving teenagers and adults vulnerable to childhood diseases

Vax immunity (such as it is) cannot be passed from mother to child, leaving infants vulnerable to childhood diseases

Vaxing causes misdiagnoses of supposedly vax preventable diseases, making their spread more likely

But other than the above...it is a super idea!
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#13 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 01:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Go here for an animated explanation of herd immunity...
http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=78
i just wanted to at that link

I thought the cdc dumbed things down

that is an insult to my intelligence lol
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#14 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 03:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Go here for an animated explanation of herd immunity...
http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=78


That may be the dumbest thing I've ever seen about vaccines!!

: : : : :

Eh, maybe not. There are some truely stupid explanations out there that make my brain hurt. This is just mind-numbingly dumb. CDC's got nothing on them!
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#15 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 03:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Deborah View Post
Problem with herd immunity is that it works for sure if enough of the population have had the disease, but herd immunity through vax is more doubtful.

What they don't mention is

Vax immunity (such as it is) can wane, leaving teenagers and adults vulnerable to childhood diseases

Vax immunity (such as it is) cannot be passed from mother to child, leaving infants vulnerable to childhood diseases

Vaxing causes misdiagnoses of supposedly vax preventable diseases, making their spread more likely

But other than the above...it is a super idea!
And then there are nifty things like the chickenpox vaccine decreasing the circulation of chickenpox within the community, cause shingles to erupt in all age groups...even children now, which was never heard of before.

And vaxing for certains strains of bacteria (like Hib and S.Pneumo) creating an ecological niche for new pathogens to step into, so now we have brand new diseases causing bacterial meningitis when they lives as harmless flora before.

But yeah..other than that, herd immunity is awsome!
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#16 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 04:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Go here for an animated explanation of herd immunity...
http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=78

oh, that was awesome. I was particularly swayed by the guy who was repeatedly puking everywhere.

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#17 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 04:44 PM
 
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Our old Dr. said the same thing to me, that by me not vaccinating that it is putting her kids in danger, well I turned it around and told her that I see it the other way, then we found a different Dr.
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#18 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by talk de jour View Post
I believe the "your child is putting mine in danger" refers to babies and children who are not yet fully vaccinated. I have never heard it used with regard to a fully vaxed kid.
I have. From the school board, when we submitted our exemption.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#19 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 06:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aussiekiah View Post
I don't think my doctor went to med school for so many years that he contradicts himself when trying to put forward an arguement???
I call this "canned pharma speech". Most docs are NOT that educated on the subject of vaccines - they just recite AAP/CDC info and pharma propaganda by rote.

Sad thing is, they actually believe it - and they don't seem all that motivated to research the truth.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#20 of 21 Old 11-24-2006, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Go here for an animated explanation of herd immunity...
http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=78
: Now that is pee-your-pants FUNNY!

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#21 of 21 Old 11-25-2006, 06:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by skellbelle View Post
: Now that is pee-your-pants FUNNY!
Yup. Was that made for five-year-olds or what?
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