Signing a no vax waiver for doctor's office - Mothering Forums

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Old 07-16-2010, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Trying to find a doc for my kids in our new town and so far have been shot down by all of them! "We don't see any patients here who are not fully vaccinated ma'am. No exceptions".

Well one family practice just called me back and said that one of their docs will see my kids if I will sign a form that says I am aware of the risks of not vaccinating my child and have decided to not vaccinate even though my doctor strongly recommends vaccinating" I asked her if it was a Sate of California form and the receptionist said no, it's a form that they have within their practice. Then she said she would have to enter our information into a state registry and needs the form signed to do so.

My first instinct is #$*% your form! But then I wonder if I should just sign it so that I have a place to take my children for medical care. I live about 30 minutes from some larger cities and so I could look into no vax friendly docs there.

Anyone else had to sign this type of form? I hate signing stuff like this because it makes me feel vulnerable to the unknown. Am I over reacting to a harmless technicality and sign the damn thing or should I keep looking for a doc who doesn't require I sign any forms?

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Old 07-16-2010, 04:57 PM
 
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Really? They don't accept any patients that are immune compromised, have cancer, HIV ect ? That would be my comeback response. I bet you get a um um um to that.

I wouldn't sign their form.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:24 PM
 
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Good point, Arduinna. And what about children who have vaccine reactions and are therefore medically contraindicated? Or do they refuse to believe that such a thing could exist?

I wouldn't sign it, either. I would find a doctor in the larger city nearby. Actually, that is exactly what I do. Our ped is about 40 minutes away.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:32 PM
 
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I would not sign anything that says something to that effect.

I did, however, sign a brief statement that said something like "We are choosing not to vaccinate at this time." Nothing about risks etc. I wonder if they'd accept something like that for their records?

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Old 07-16-2010, 05:40 PM
 
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Also, does the state of California allow a parent to opt their child out of the vaccine registration database? If so, you can do that, and tell the receptionist that you are opting out, so they can't use that excuse for the form. If you decide to sign the form, you can mark through any parts you find objectionable.
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:15 PM
 
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I think you need to pick your battles.

I left a practice because I refused to sign the "bad parent" form, but I was able to find a wonderful doc who doesn't push me or make me sigh anything. If you think there are no other docs in your area that will even see your child, I would sign it (making sure you opt out of the registry!!). If you think you can find another doctor with a little more time and searching and you are willing to travel a bit maybe, then I would not sign it.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 07-16-2010, 08:55 PM
 
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I think you need to pick your battles.

I left a practice because I refused to sign the "bad parent" form, but I was able to find a wonderful doc who doesn't push me or make me sigh anything. If you think there are no other docs in your area that will even see your child, I would sign it (making sure you opt out of the registry!!). If you think you can find another doctor with a little more time and searching and you are willing to travel a bit maybe, then I would not sign it.
I think my worry with this would be if anything ever came up re: vaxes or her parenting or anything... say an unfounded CPS case or a statewide unvaxed child roundup -- then having signed the "bad parent" form would make you look much worse because you are basically admitting that not vaxing is dangerous etc. and you're willing to put your child at risk.

I really wouldn't sign it. OP, check in Finding Your Tribe, maybe someone can recommend a vax-friendly doc.

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Old 07-16-2010, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think my worry with this would be if anything ever came up re: vaxes or her parenting or anything... say an unfounded CPS case or a statewide unvaxed child roundup -- then having signed the "bad parent" form would make you look much worse because you are basically admitting that not vaxing is dangerous etc. and you're willing to put your child at risk.

I really wouldn't sign it. OP, check in Finding Your Tribe, maybe someone can recommend a vax-friendly doc.
This is what worries me! A situation like this. I remember a friend in New Mexico warning me about a form like this for this reason. Going to keep trying! Posted in "Find Tribe" but so far I think I win the award for being the ONLY mama on this entire forum who lives in my area! WOW!

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Old 07-17-2010, 03:18 AM
 
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What about a family doctor or DO?

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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Old 07-17-2010, 03:31 AM
 
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: We see a family doc and our vax status is a total nonissue.
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Old 07-17-2010, 03:36 AM
 
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Yeah, I signed one with our ped. But I told her straight out that I didn't agree with it, and she told me to feel free and cross out any lines that I wasn't "agreeing to" with my signature, and make notes or whatever. (I "agreed" to the lines stating that I was aware of the vaccines available to me, etc. and crossed out the lines stating that I was aware I was putting my child's life at risk by not vaccinating. ) It was a standardized form- I think CDC, maybe? It was pretty ridiculous, but I really like this ped and we went through a few bad ones before we found a good one, so I didn't want to chance losing her.

Also- you can opt out of the state vaccine registry in most states. The doctor's office should be able to tell you how to opt out, but if not, do some searching on the web to find the registry info for your state.

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Old 07-17-2010, 07:23 AM
 
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I'm in California (placerville if you need a doc up here). You don't have to sign ANYTHING for this doctor. The vax registry can be opt-ed out of. I have found that finding a good family doc or osteopath doc would probably be less stressfull to you as your DS grows

Something I've always wondered is HOW can doc's get away with NOT treating patients that have a Religious Conviction that prevents them from Vaxing. Isn't that descrimination(sp?)? In Cali we have all 3 exemptions and for the Pro-Vax Doc's they couldn't care less. I've gotten into some heated "discussions" lol regarding the exemptions and my Religious one- they just don't care It's very sad to me. I've also had to be very forcefull with one particular WIC lady regarding the lead testing and vaxes. I told her we don't do vaxes for religious reasons, and she then wanted us to do the Lead testing. Again I told her we don't believe in "non life saving medical treatment" and she went on this Tirade about us refusing to cooperate, being negligent parents, and my fav- making her job more difficult. I demanded to see her supervisior, who was almost as snotty as she was but we got our checks and had no further hassles from that office. It's like when you have a Religous reason for not doing things people assume you are "lying" or faking. I don't understand how so many Medical and Government officals are allowed to ignore a Religious or ANY legal exemption. I don't understand why they think it's THEIR right to demand you consent to any and all medical treatments they deem nessicary. We (society) have handed our brains and saftey over to the Ped's and big Pharma So scary!

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Old 07-17-2010, 11:44 AM
 
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Oh my god. I signed one of these for our ped. I think I was just so happy that he was fine with our decision to not vaccinate that I went ahead and signed it because I didn't really care and I knew in my mind that the only thing that matters is that my son is not vaccinated. At the time I was fine with signing it, but now I totally regret it. Is it bad that I signed it? He's a great doctor and never pushed vaccines on us. I didn't think much of it.

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Old 07-17-2010, 05:30 PM
 
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Something I've always wondered is HOW can doc's get away with NOT treating patients that have a Religious Conviction that prevents them from Vaxing. Isn't that descrimination(sp?)?
Doctors can deny treatment to all sorts of people. One doctor denies treatment to children if their parents have tattoos, because it goes against the "Christian environment" he's trying to maintain in his office. It was in the news recently. Other doctors refuse to treat women who want an abortion because it goes against their religous beliefs. I guess it would be just as unfair to demand that a doctor go against his religous beliefs as it would be to demand that a patient go against his or her religous beliefs.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:08 PM
 
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Oh my god. I signed one of these for our ped. I think I was just so happy that he was fine with our decision to not vaccinate that I went ahead and signed it because I didn't really care and I knew in my mind that the only thing that matters is that my son is not vaccinated. At the time I was fine with signing it, but now I totally regret it. Is it bad that I signed it? He's a great doctor and never pushed vaccines on us. I didn't think much of it.
You could consider filing a retraction statement with your child's medical file. Basically, a letter stating that you are retracting your statement filed with (ABC) ped practice, dated (###), that (XYZ); ie, I am putting my child at risk by not vaccinating, etc. You could draft it, sign it, have it notarized, and then give it to your ped's office. If you do this, I would also recommend that you get a copy of the "bad mommy" letter you signed and keep it with a copy of the retraction statement in your possession, just in case it mysteriously disappears from your child's medical file. You could send the retraction statement certified mail/return receipt requested, and keep the receipt with the forms. AFAIK, the fear of signing these statements (ignoring the fact that they are insulting and medically incomplete) is that they can be used against you if someone is trying to build a case against your parenting abilities. Keeping your own copy would be good insurance.
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Old 07-19-2010, 01:17 PM
 
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You could consider filing a retraction statement with your child's medical file. Basically, a letter stating that you are retracting your statement filed with (ABC) ped practice, dated (###), that (XYZ); ie, I am putting my child at risk by not vaccinating, etc. You could draft it, sign it, have it notarized, and then give it to your ped's office. If you do this, I would also recommend that you get a copy of the "bad mommy" letter you signed and keep it with a copy of the retraction statement in your possession, just in case it mysteriously disappears from your child's medical file. You could send the retraction statement certified mail/return receipt requested, and keep the receipt with the forms. AFAIK, the fear of signing these statements (ignoring the fact that they are insulting and medically incomplete) is that they can be used against you if someone is trying to build a case against your parenting abilities. Keeping your own copy would be good insurance.
Thank you so much! I had never ever thought about it being used against me ever.

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Old 07-19-2010, 01:25 PM
 
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Personally, I sign nothing... at least, not when I'm opting out of something. That is the default setting.

Maybe if I was accepting an intervention I would sign an agreement form.

Otherwise, no, I do not sign anything that might implicate me or take away my legal rights.

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Old 07-19-2010, 06:18 PM
 
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I had to sign it and I did. I told them I don't care what I have to sign, my kids aren't getting vaccinated. I figure that if that did some sort of mass round up of non-vaxed kids I would be "found" anyway. I post on countless anti-vax boards. I've attended anti-vax seminars. "Big Brother" could find me a thousand different ways if they needed to. All I care about right now is protecting my kids in the moment. If they get older and our freedom of choosing whether or not to vax is taken away, at least their brain barrier will be fully formed by then.

Maybe it is naive of me? Maybe I thinking too much in the moment. I don't know. But I feel comfortable for now.

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Old 07-20-2010, 03:10 AM
 
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If one reads that paper comprehensively, ask yourself why would anyone sign such a thing?
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Old 07-22-2010, 12:35 PM
 
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I never had to sign such a form at either of our drs. I wouldn't sign a form like that either.


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Old 07-22-2010, 08:46 PM
 
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I signed that form every time, because I'm holding my crying, wiggly baby, I just want to hurry up and get the appointment over with, and the nurse says, "sign here - it just says we offered the vaccines and you declined". So I sign. I never read the form until recently when I saw it posted online somewhere. Now I'm pissed. A registry? This is the 1st I'm hearing of this too! Ugh.

Anyone know any lawyers involved in anti-vax issues who could speak to this form?
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:57 PM
 
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I wouldn't sign a form like that any more than a sane pediatrician would sign a form that made them accept total and lifelong liability for any and all damage arising from the vaccines they wanted to administer to my child.

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Old 07-22-2010, 10:05 PM
 
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If one reads that paper comprehensively, ask yourself why would anyone sign such a thing?
Having just gone over the AAP form again, I'm wondering if people would find it less objectionable if it were worded more as a straight legal liability waiver. In particular, "I have had the opportunity to discuss this with my child’s doctor or nurse, who has answered all of my questions regarding the recommended vaccine(s)..." comes off as something out of a stock landlord-biased rental agreement--vague to the point of meaninglessness.
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Old 07-22-2010, 10:35 PM
 
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I wouldn't sign a form like that any more than a sane pediatrician would sign a form that made them accept total and lifelong liability for any and all damage arising from the vaccines they wanted to administer to my child.
precisely...
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:00 PM
 
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No one is forced to sign anything. You can leave.
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Old 07-23-2010, 04:34 PM
 
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I gave my baby one shot of Pentacel before I changed my mind and went anti-vax. They didn't make me sign anything. According to the nurse I spoke with before Elsa was born this doctor accepts patients regardless of vax status. He works with the Amish so they have a full range of vax choices.

He's a family doc and a DO so I wonder if that makes a difference.

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Old 07-23-2010, 04:55 PM
 
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(I previously posted but had since removed it.)

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Old 07-31-2010, 04:53 AM
 
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Well, crap. I signed something today. I too didnt read it, had a wiggling crying baby, and the nurse just said "sign here". Erg! Can I totally retract my signature, or is it absolutely permanant now for all eternity!?? I might not go back to vax my baby, I don't know yet, but I don't want anyone having that information ON a file..

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Old 07-31-2010, 10:38 AM
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As a pro-immunization pediatrician who does allow parents to modify, delay, or decline immunizations altogether, I am very familiar with the waiver from the AAP. I do not use it because I think it is unnecessarily inflammatory. I use my that I'll post in the next reply.

Regardless of what you sign, I can allay your concerns. The purpose of the form is NOT to put liability on the parent. The form is there for two reasons.

First, the form is there to document equal care. I am required to provide an equal level of care to all patients. When the board of health, board of medicine, or an insurance company comes to my office and audits charts, I am required to document why a different standard of care was used.

That is the reason for the form. But why have the parent sign it? That's the second reason!

It's NOT to place any sort of liability on the parent, but rather to protect ME. Let's say a parent declines an immunization, and the child falls ill. The signed form, documenting that the immunizations were offered, and information provided, is going to keep me from being exposed to liability, be it financial or legal on the part of the patient, or professional liability on the part of the board of medicine, the state, or an insurer.

The rationale behind the inflammatory language is that the AAP didn't want parents coming back and saying "well he offered them, but he didn't tell me this could happen" etc... A valid concern, but one for which I believe the form overcompensates. That's why I came up with my own.
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Old 07-31-2010, 10:40 AM
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Immunization Deferral


Child’s Name:

Date of Birth:
Provider:

According to the immunization scheduled provided by The American Academy of Pediatrics, the following immunizations are recommended

(This is followed by a list of immunizations and a spot to mark "declined" next to each one)

My child’s provider has given me the Vaccine Information Sheets and has also discussed:
The purpose of the recommended immunization(s).
The risks and benefits of the recommended immunization(s).
The consequences of deferring or declining the immunization, which may include:
•Contracting the illness the immunization is intended to prevent.
•Possible transmission of the disease to others.
•The potential need for my child to stay out of child care or school during certain disease outbreaks.

I am electing to decline the immunization(s) for my child, as indicated above, by checking the appropriate box under the column “declined”.

I may address this issue with my health care provider again at any time.

I may reconsider and request immunization for my child at any time in the future should I so choose.


Parent/Guardian Signature:
Date:
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