"Extreme" babywearing (pics I took in N. Thailand) - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 74 Old 01-17-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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you know we do have some places that still have different standards- school buses don't have belts or car seats actually most public transportation does not have safety belts or infant seats--
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#62 of 74 Old 01-17-2008, 08:40 PM
 
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My kids school bus actually DOES have seatbelts in the first seat. My dd sits there. Guess because she's in kinder??

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#63 of 74 Old 01-18-2008, 12:20 PM
 
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What a lot of us don't realize about our own perspectives is that we take a lot for granted. We accept quite a lot of information without doing research. Many car seats don't even pass certain codes for safety. Read consumer reports. Look at how many signs there are up in the stores about recalls. We can strap our children into car seats that might very well hurt them more than help them if it came to a crash!

We must realize that it is from a privileged point of view that we look upon these pictures of those we label 'other'. We have so much. Along with our wealth and supposed education come our assumptions.

It's totally OK to have that frisson of fear when we see something we've been taught is dangerous. But what many have brought up is that this is a different culture. They don't have the options we have, cannot afford to have the even the illusion of safety attached to hundreds of dollars worth of plastic to wrap around their children.

Do you wear shoes in your house? In Church? That would seem ridiculously appalling to most asian cultures. Different values. Different country. Different. The exercise is to take a moment and step into another view point. That is ALSO your privilege.

The child playing with the knife . . . I just think that he will know that knives are just tools, and be safe with one for the rest of his life. And he will need that knife and use it more than my child will EVER have to even open a tiny multi-tool blade.

Let's not get too caught up in pure emotional responses. That is my request. Not 'AWESOME!' and not "HORRIBLE!". Enlightening.
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#64 of 74 Old 01-18-2008, 03:39 PM
 
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I thought the pictures were great and I didnt even flinch. They seemed calm and happy. I would rather see dad carrying baby on his back then leaving baby crying somewhere while he and the others go off to do whatever.

The pictures of the little boy and the knife. Its probably not the first time he has played with it and what are the odds really. I wouldnt want him running with it or chasing the chickens though.

The pictures of the whole family on the scooter....it looked fun

Angela

I have read books that talk about busy east asian traffic and how westerners are so scared of the chaos but how everyone else is so alert and calm that the westerner soon learns to let go and go with the flow.

We did some crazy stuff as kids on the farm and looking back I cringe but it sure was fun and we never go hurt.
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#65 of 74 Old 01-18-2008, 03:46 PM
 
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Beautiful pictures! Thanks for sharing.

I didn't find anything shocking or worrisome either... but then I've done hiking, tidepooling, swinging, etc. while wearing my babies. When you know your body and your baby and they're secure in there it feels very safe. I also feel that we are more careful when we don't have things like helmets and seatbelts. Probably the slinging dad on the motorbike will not take the same chances a guy alone wearing leather and a helmet on a motorcycle would, kwim?
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#66 of 74 Old 01-18-2008, 04:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HybridVigor View Post
What a lot of us don't realize about our own perspectives is that we take a lot for granted. We accept quite a lot of information without doing research. Many car seats don't even pass certain codes for safety. Read consumer reports. Look at how many signs there are up in the stores about recalls. We can strap our children into car seats that might very well hurt them more than help them if it came to a crash!

We must realize that it is from a privileged point of view that we look upon these pictures of those we label 'other'. We have so much. Along with our wealth and supposed education come our assumptions.

It's totally OK to have that frisson of fear when we see something we've been taught is dangerous. But what many have brought up is that this is a different culture. They don't have the options we have, cannot afford to have the even the illusion of safety attached to hundreds of dollars worth of plastic to wrap around their children.

Do you wear shoes in your house? In Church? That would seem ridiculously appalling to most asian cultures. Different values. Different country. Different. The exercise is to take a moment and step into another view point. That is ALSO your privilege.

The child playing with the knife . . . I just think that he will know that knives are just tools, and be safe with one for the rest of his life. And he will need that knife and use it more than my child will EVER have to even open a tiny multi-tool blade.

Let's not get too caught up in pure emotional responses. That is my request. Not 'AWESOME!' and not "HORRIBLE!". Enlightening.
Great post!!!

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Nirvana is . . . the living happiness of a soul which is conscious of itself and conscious of having found its own abode in the heart of the Eternal. --Gandhi
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#67 of 74 Old 01-18-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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In terms of safety, I think you also have to consider the speed. A scooter like that is only capable of about 30 mph at the best of times, never mind with 3 people on it.

Baby on a scooter at 20 - 30 mph, vs. baby in car at 80 mph? The difference in the physics is actually enormous. I'm not saying it's *safe* but it's really an apples to oranges comparison.

I would be very interested to see the statistics on traffic fatalities - unfortunately I doubt there are any for developing countries.

Aside from that, I think the photos are cute.

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#68 of 74 Old 01-18-2008, 10:16 PM
 
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Safety is totally a cultural thing. Here (bush Alaska), entire families come to school (or go to the store, or whatever) by 4-wheeler... one parent driving, holding the smallest of the children, or with them seated between their legs, maybe another small kid behind that parent on the seat, older children or adult passengers sitting on the back or front "cargo" areas. When a 4-wheeler is the family car, that's just what you do.

If this baby weren't to be born in May, he'd be getting his first snowmobile ride at the tender age of two weeks. As it stands, he probably won't get it until six months or so (depending on the weather next fall), and will instead get a fun boat ride that may involve chopping through some ice (our airport is on the other side of the river, and we have to come into the village by air). It's just the way it is. In the winter, unless I felt like walking two miles, post-partum and carrying my new babe, in -40 degree weather, we'll hop on a snowmobile and I'll instruct the driver (probably DH) to drive like a granny. None of this makes me a bad parent. It makes me a parent in a place where there are no roads... a place where all non-walking transportation is by boat, snowmobile, or 4-wheeler. Some places, it's motorbike. Some places, it's bicycle. Certainly, it's not perfect. But what is? We do our best to minimize risk to our babies... but those risks (and what we can afford to do to minimize them) vary greatly based on location.

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#69 of 74 Old 01-20-2008, 08:09 PM
 
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Reminds me of when I was in Mexico - Saw lots of families on bikes - The best was a dad driving while the mom breastfed a baby on the back.
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#70 of 74 Old 01-21-2008, 01:08 AM
 
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I don't think that posting the pics is condoning them, it's just an interesting account of the babywearing culture. I would never ride a motorcyclew/ a baby, but i found thepic adorable none the less.

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#71 of 74 Old 01-21-2008, 12:14 PM
 
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I love these photos.

They bring back so many memories of life in Kenya, and women tilling their fields with their babies/small children bouncing up and down on their backs. Most just tied them on with wrap-style skirts.

They also cloth diapered...with old dish towels.

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#72 of 74 Old 01-21-2008, 01:42 PM
 
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Thanks for posting those! I loved the motorbike one and reminded me of being in different countries. Though as a child in the US my sister and I took motorcycle rides with my dad (one on front one behind and dsister was probably 2-3), I believe we wore helmuts though.
The knife one too was funny. Once I was holding my ds when he was about 1 y/o and he reached for a sharp knife and sister in law grabbed it away and was like "omg, that was so close!" Like close to what? him grabbing the knife and instantly stabbing himself in the heart? Ok, I guess I understand her concern...but they have to learn about things somehow

I think if you spend time in a country not obsessed with safety and rules you begin to understand how little we really live here. It is a wonderful thing to free yourself from worry and trust a little more in what will be will be.
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#73 of 74 Old 01-21-2008, 04:08 PM
 
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How many times do I hear that 75%+ of car seats are not installed right? And of course the more safety we have, the better we are, right? That means we can speed to 80 mph, b/c our child is 'safe' in the car seat?

I would love to know what the average speed limit is on those bikes? My husband recently went to India for work, and said that everyone was on bikes, and no one drive anywhere the speed limits that we do here. I wish we could get statistics on if our kids are safer here or where we see the 'extreme' babywearing pics. I just keep thinking of how great our system of heath is, yet we seem to have a worse maternal/infant mortality rate than man other 1st world nations. That same kind of flawed mentality can easily be applied here to baby wearing. more is NOT always better IMHO.

I just find it so frustrating when we compare apples and oranges and throw in a sprinkle of judgment to ruin the meal.

And for what it is worth, the first thing I thought of was CC parenting with the kid playing with the knife. I am not going to go get a knife and hand it to DS, but I am trying very hard to remove all these fears and doubts that I, as a naive and brainwashed parent, have imparted to him about his safety. Off my soapbox now....back to pumping....
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#74 of 74 Old 01-22-2008, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Cello View Post
I would love to know what the average speed limit is on those bikes?
Here in Okinawa the top speed limit (not including the expressway(80kph=50mph)(and I don't think I've ever seen a bike on the expressway)) is 60kph that is equivalent to 37mph and you rarely go faster than 40kph(24mph) if there is traffic(when was the last time you drove 25mph even through your neighborhood). I rarely see accidents and when I do Americans are normally involved..... here there are no car seat laws and you regularly see kids on moms lap or running around the back seat so even in developed countries were many people drive cars and can afford car seats they choose not to because they see no risk. I can't imagine trying to fit 5 people on a motorbike but can't imagine being shocked and thinking its horrible either... its truly amazing getting out and about in the world and seeing things from a different light.
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