"Extreme" babywearing (pics I took in N. Thailand) - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 74 Old 01-14-2008, 11:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Taken outside Chiang Rai:

going for a ride
http://www.thekeoghfamily.phanfare.c...11846/file.jpg


slinging and swinging
http://www.thekeoghfamily.phanfare.c...11867/file.jpg

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#2 of 74 Old 01-14-2008, 11:20 PM
 
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Oh I love it! I rode with my 13 month old in a sling in the Taxi in Mexico and I felt very nervous! My dh has done the bike riding with a ergo and baby before. Great pictures!

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#3 of 74 Old 01-14-2008, 11:56 PM
 
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Hey
Ilaria!
How cool! Womyn...how do you guys manage to travel everywhere so much?
Whatever you guys's profession is...its great you can travel so much!
Um, what is your profession? It must be sooo great for your kids!
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#4 of 74 Old 01-14-2008, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My profession is 'mama', it's pretty cool!

My dh is CFO for Intel Philippines, so that's why we live here...and we just love to travel all around SE Asia.

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#5 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 12:29 AM
 
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Maybe I am the odd girl out here, but I can't commend what is being done in those pictures. There's nothing cool about doing "extreme" things with a baby who can't consent to the risks being taken. A lot more injury could be done to a baby if a sling malfunction occurred swinging or biking than if one occurred while sitting or walking. I understand that they can't afford ultrasafe cars and that there are cultural differences here, but I am still appalled. That is not cool.

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#6 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 12:33 AM
 
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Aww! Beautiful pics!
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#7 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 12:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
Maybe I am the odd girl out here, but I can't commend what is being done in those pictures. There's nothing cool about doing "extreme" things with a baby who can't consent to the risks being taken. A lot more injury could be done to a baby if a sling malfunction occurred swinging or biking than if one occurred while sitting or walking. I understand that they can't afford ultrasafe cars and that there are cultural differences here, but I am still appalled. That is not cool.
Driving around in a car is pretty extreme when you think about it. Other countries see things differently, and I don't think our culture is any more right or righteous than theirs. Even on the storch site you can see (or used to be able to, I haven't looked in a bit) parents riding bicycles with babes on their backs. Try that here and people *die*. But driving 100km/h++ in a tin car and nobody bats an eye.
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#8 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 12:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think anyone here is condoning anything. It is a fact that in SE Asia, a motorbike is a means of transport for the whole family (I have seen a family of 6 on one once: mom, dad, 3 kids, 1 infant) and no helmets either. I happen to think that a sling is safer than a baby who has to hold on to dad/mom on his own.

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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
I understand that they can't afford ultrasafe cars
They can hardly afford food, they are happy they get a bowl of rice a day. In a developing country, 'safety' has a very different meaning...look at this toy this child was happily playing with..
http://www.thekeoghfamily.phanfare.c...38996/file.jpg

As for "There's nothing cool about doing "extreme" things with a baby who can't consent to the risks being taken."...as parents we make choices for our kids everyday that others might consider 'uncool'. SOme might find homebirthing, non vaxing and EN extreme too.
It's all perspective.

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#9 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 12:40 AM
 
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I don't think riding a bike with a baby strapped to your back, no protection at all, is comparable to riding in a car with your baby in a carseat. Like I said, I understand the cultural differences and that they cannot afford much. In my perspective, it isn't safe or cool to have a bab on a motorbike at all. I don't need to be explained that others might see it differently, because the pictures are proof enough of that.

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#10 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 12:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
I don't think riding a bike with a baby strapped to your back, no protection at all, is comparable to riding in a car with your baby in a carseat. Like I said, I understand the cultural differences and that they cannot afford much. In my perspective, it isn't safe or cool. I don't need to be explained that others might see it differently, because the pictures are proof enough of that.
It's a different world, mama...
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#11 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 01:04 AM
 
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The one on the swing is ok (but I wouldn't do it for fear of fallin on baby), but when I saw the one on the motor bike all I could think of was "No helmets!" Also if they did fall there is a chance of the man landing on top of the baby. Too scary for me, but then I don't ive there and my perspective is way differnt.
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#12 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 01:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ilaria View Post
a developing country, 'safety' has a very different meaning...look at this toy this child was happily playing with..
http://www.thekeoghfamily.phanfare.c...38996/file.jpg

As for "There's nothing cool about doing "extreme" things with a baby who can't consent to the risks being taken."...as parents we make choices for our kids everyday that others might consider 'uncool'. SOme might find homebirthing, non vaxing and EN extreme too.
It's all perspective.
Anyone else think of "The Continuum Concept" when looking at that pic?

Yes, perspective is what it boils down too. I love seeing the pics even if I wouldn't do what is in the pic.
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#13 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 01:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyone else think of "The Continuum Concept" when looking at that pic?
I did...but I basically live in TCC society!
He was running around full speed pantless (EC, of course!), having a ball with his big knife. The adults around got mad beacuse he was chasing chickens, not because of the knife. When my 6 year old saw the scene, he said: That doesn't seem like such a good a idea...

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#14 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 02:42 AM
 
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And to think that the people at Mesa Verde thought I was extreme by taking the tour with my baby in a Mai Tei!!!
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#15 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 03:29 AM
 
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Ummm, I've done the swinging one. But with an Ergo. She was sitting on my lap. She loved it!

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#16 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 03:32 AM
 
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Babywearing is such an engrained way of life there that they do not even consider the safety aspects. While risk to babes is not cool, having babywearing be second nature in a culture IS!!!!! I have a cleaning job and dd (5 months now) is the happiest sling babe ever. I am on the agenda of a meeting to be held Thursday because I clean while "carrying" a baby. I'm on salary, not wage and my work cannot be critiqued, just that dd is worn on me.... I wish babywearing was "normal" here, too.
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#17 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 10:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
Maybe I am the odd girl out here, but I can't commend what is being done in those pictures. There's nothing cool about doing "extreme" things with a baby who can't consent to the risks being taken. A lot more injury could be done to a baby if a sling malfunction occurred swinging or biking than if one occurred while sitting or walking. I understand that they can't afford ultrasafe cars and that there are cultural differences here, but I am still appalled. That is not cool.

Honestly, id rather see a baby strapped to a parents back on a bike than sitting on the parents lap.
In Iran-a country I go to regularly and have dual-citizenship, EVERYONE uses a bike and normally its mom, dad and 2-3 kids sitting on a tiny little bike! 1 up front on dads lap, 1 in the middle on moms lap and the eldest in the way back, holding on for dear life!
Frankly...its a fact of life there and in many countries that bikes are the normal way for a family to get from site A to site B...cars are too expensive...and from seeing many babies tottering on their moms lap, i'd much rather see them strapped onto their moms as its much safer.

So Id hafta disagree, but only because Ive seen similar situations in real life and while I refuse to "bike" it when in Iran...Its a VERY common occurance...
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#18 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 11:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
Maybe I am the odd girl out here, but I can't commend what is being done in those pictures. There's nothing cool about doing "extreme" things with a baby who can't consent to the risks being taken. A lot more injury could be done to a baby if a sling malfunction occurred swinging or biking than if one occurred while sitting or walking. I understand that they can't afford ultrasafe cars and that there are cultural differences here, but I am still appalled. That is not cool.
It's not for you to commend. It's not for you to applaud.

These folks are not "babywearing" to be cool or AP parents. It's the only way to get around. I can't tell you how grateful I was for my air-bag equipped car and car seat when I returned from Ghana where I think *1* car I rode in actually had seat belts. In Nigeria, very few folks wear helmets and it is common to see a mother wearing her baby on a motorbike--at least in the village.

If nothing else, these pictures can give us who are wealthier something to be grateful for--that we can afford safer ways of transporting our children--even if it's buses and trains.

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#19 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 11:34 AM
 
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Actually, after I wrote my post, I thought to myself...duh I should of added how we had no right to comment anyway as to what they are doing.

Who are we to deem what is appropriate or inappropriate in any culture but our own...and any attempts on our or anyone elses part is merely a sign of North American cultural imperialism...

Its like how Americans tend to think down on Iranian women wearing chadors...yet, Americans have no right to comment...if you dont know the culture nor are PART of the culture...what right does anyone have to make assumptions and deem what behaviurs or manners of dress are apprioriate or inappropriate.
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...look at this toy this child was happily playing with..
http://www.thekeoghfamily.phanfare.c...38996/file.jpg
My heart dropped when I looked at that pic!

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Different strokes for different folks.

I thought it was pretty sweet.

As for the child playing with the knife -- well, maybe we'd have less anxiety if we took a different approach to things ourselves.

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I used to swing with DD in my ring sling almost every night when she was first born. It was the only way she'd go to sleep without me having to stand and sway for hours on end.
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#23 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 02:18 PM
 
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I'd rather not see a baby on a bike at all.

Others commended and applauded it, saying it's cool and whatnot. If they have that right, I certainly have the right to do the opposite. I understand that they are not doing it to be cool or AP; that still doesn't change the fact that I think it is unsafe and not ok. I am thankful that I can afford safer ways of transporting my babies, and as I have said REPEATEDLY, I understand that they cannot and that there are cultural differences. It still doesn't make me think that this is okay. I'm not deeming anything appropriate or inappropriate; I'm stating my own opinion, not creating law. Others here have responded saying they think it is appropriate and fine; I have every right to say it's not. So get off my not-crunchy-enough back k? I think babywearing is great and that we could learn a lot from cultures for whom it is second nature; that doesn't mean I think any better of babies on bikes.

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#24 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 03:37 PM
 
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Actually, after I wrote my post, I thought to myself...duh I should of added how we had no right to comment anyway as to what they are doing.

Who are we to deem what is appropriate or inappropriate in any culture but our own...and any attempts on our or anyone elses part is merely a sign of North American cultural imperialism...

Its like how Americans tend to think down on Iranian women wearing chadors...yet, Americans have no right to comment...if you dont know the culture nor are PART of the culture...what right does anyone have to make assumptions and deem what behaviurs or manners of dress are apprioriate or inappropriate.
:
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awesome pix!

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Originally Posted by moonfirefaery View Post
I don't think riding a bike with a baby strapped to your back, no protection at all, is comparable to riding in a car with your baby in a carseat. Like I said, I understand the cultural differences and that they cannot afford much. In my perspective, it isn't safe or cool to have a bab on a motorbike at all. I don't need to be explained that others might see it differently, because the pictures are proof enough of that.
i think this shows how little some people understand about how other cultures work.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UmmIbrahim View Post
Honestly, id rather see a baby strapped to a parents back on a bike than sitting on the parents lap.
In Iran-a country I go to regularly and have dual-citizenship, EVERYONE uses a bike and normally its mom, dad and 2-3 kids sitting on a tiny little bike! 1 up front on dads lap, 1 in the middle on moms lap and the eldest in the way back, holding on for dear life!
Frankly...its a fact of life there and in many countries that bikes are the normal way for a family to get from site A to site B...cars are too expensive...and from seeing many babies tottering on their moms lap, i'd much rather see them strapped onto their moms as its much safer.

So Id hafta disagree, but only because Ive seen similar situations in real life and while I refuse to "bike" it when in Iran...Its a VERY common occurance...
I agree with you, as someone who regularly travels outside of the country i can tell you that while we are westerns would find this scary or even dangerous it is actually much better than their other options.

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#28 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 05:19 PM
 
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Honestly, id rather see a baby strapped to a parents back on a bike than sitting on the parents lap.
In Iran-a country I go to regularly and have dual-citizenship, EVERYONE uses a bike and normally its mom, dad and 2-3 kids sitting on a tiny little bike! 1 up front on dads lap, 1 in the middle on moms lap and the eldest in the way back, holding on for dear life!
Frankly...its a fact of life there and in many countries that bikes are the normal way for a family to get from site A to site B...cars are too expensive...and from seeing many babies tottering on their moms lap, i'd much rather see them strapped onto their moms as its much safer.
...
that is how it was in holland also. the babys are in a basket on the front of a bike and it seems very safe to me. They have cars there but people prefer bikes, that is just their way of life, neither right nor wrong. Persoanlly i think the photos are awesome and it reminds us that life goes on without all of the crap that we think we need to raise babies here in the US.
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#29 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 05:24 PM
 
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I think it shows that while I do understand how other cultures work, I am a part of a different culture and thus have a different perspective. Please don't insult my intelligence by implying that I must be ignorant because I have a different point of view.

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#30 of 74 Old 01-15-2008, 05:35 PM
 
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I guess my objection is based on physics, not on culture.

Crash on motorbike with no helmet/restraint/padding = direct contact with road and potentially other vehicles involved in the crash or driving nearby = likely serious injury, especially head injury.

Crash in car with car seat/restraint/padding/crumple zones = likely no direct contact with road and some degree of shock absorption done by the car, which likely= less severe injury.

I know there are no absolutes and someone can probably come up with several scenarios where a car crash would be worse than a motorbike crash, but I still can't get over the basic mass+acceleration+no protection= BIG ouch.

I'm not saying families who do this are wrong or are bad people, it just makes me worry a lot.

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