Hotslings - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 20 Old 03-26-2004, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
melaniewb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lost in the depths of grad school
Posts: 5,179
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hotslings


Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: tube style puch slings with or without padding in the legs

Store/Site of purchase: http://www.hotslings.com

Price: I think they are $20 now

How long have you used this product? Over a year

Fit/Sizing: Mine fits perfectly. She offers 4 or 5 sizes and will custom size as well

Performance: This sling has held up wonderfully. I use it often and it still looks brand new.

Workmomship: Excellent! No flaws whatsoever!

Customer Service/Communication: Again, excellent!

Would you purchase this product again? Most definitely

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof- Nope

Additional Comments:

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):


Edited because I jumped the gun with the review and didn't realize there was a form.
melaniewb is offline  
#2 of 20 Old 04-16-2004, 06:17 PM
 
CajunMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: nakX2- sweating to death
Posts: 1,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: Unadjustable pouch sling in cotton and cotton stretch fabrics

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $20.00

How long have you used this product?

Fit/Sizing: to order- make sure that you measure yourself correctly

Performance:

Workmomship: fabulous

Customer Service/Communicationonderful- I measured incorrectly and both slings that I ordered were too big. I sent her an e-mail, she sent me instructions and I sent them back to her. She returned them very quickly and now they fit like a glove!

Would you purchase this product again?YES

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof

Additional Comments:

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
CajunMama is offline  
#3 of 20 Old 04-30-2004, 03:14 PM
 
AnnR33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: California
Posts: 3,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotslings Fleece Pouch

Brief description of product: fleece non adjustable pouch

Store/Site of purchase: bought used

Price:

How long have you used this product? 1 month

Fit/Sizing:

Performance: I got this for a future babe but tried it with my 30+lb toddler and it worked well around the house and she loved being in it. I'm new to babywearing after past "failures" and I'm thrilled to have found this!

Workmomship: excellent

Customer Service/Communication:
I've asked Kristen ?s and she always answers promptly

Would you purchase this product again? I already did!

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof

Additional Comments: This would be a great carrier for a "baby wearing newbie" since it's easy and affordable

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):

Full-time homeschooling mama : of a 15yo "teenager" , 12yo DIVA, 9yo builder, & 4yo treasure.
AnnR33 is offline  
#4 of 20 Old 05-17-2004, 01:25 PM
 
poisonedapple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: iowa
Posts: 2,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: pouch style, w/o padding

Store/Site of purchase: hotslings.com

Price: 21 dollars

How long have you used this product? under a month, daily, almost the entire day

Fit/Sizing: Perfect fit! I LOVE IT!

Performance: I use this sling daily, and not much time goes by without it on (even as I write). Its not bulky, it fits pefect, and Ive yet to come across a problem.

Workmomship: Excellent work! I dont see any flaws!

Customer Service/Communication: Excellent, Kristen rushed me one when she heard my situation, and was awesome to deal with, very wonderful, sweet mama.

Would you purchase this product again? Definetly! Thinking of getting a fleece on this winter.

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof- Not at all.

Additional Comments:

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
poisonedapple is offline  
#5 of 20 Old 05-27-2004, 11:39 PM
 
Mallori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WI-brrrrr....
Posts: 1,144
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: pouch style sari stretch, w/ padding

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $34.50+shipping

How long have you used this product? got it a week ago

Fit/Sizing: so far, so good. Still in the "trial period"

Performance: Sling is new to me, i've had it about a week. It's really pretty, and simple to use. My dd is really young though-8 weeks, and I think it's going to fit better and better the older she gets.

Workmomship: Excellent work!

Customer Service/Communication: Excellent

Would you purchase this product again? Definetly! Thinking of getting a solarveil for the summer

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof- No.

Additional Comments: I think my fleece pouch is better for a brand new baby, but at 8 weeks, my dd slept in this pouch for a couple hours today, and that's a good sign. Also, no pain for me to carry her. that's a perk!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
Mallori is offline  
#6 of 20 Old 05-28-2004, 10:45 AM
 
wemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,360
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotslings Stretch Pouch

Brief description of product: Simple, beautiful, babywearing at such an easy and affordable level!

Store/Site of purchase: www.thebabywearer.com

Price: We traded slings

How long have you used this product? I just tried it out with my almost 3 year old, I won't really get to use it till I have another baby.

Fit/Sizing: I got the XS, it fits. I'm very petite though, about 100 lbs at 5'4"

Performance: Simple, easy, great beginners sling

Workmomship: Awesome!

Customer Service/Communication: Fast replies, great person to work with!

Would you purchase this product again? I would consider trading again, but I like to sew myself and like to figure out how to make new kinds of slings. So, yes, if Kristen wanted to trade again I would do so.

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof: No complaints!

Additional Comments: Great slings for a first time babywearer!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):

coffee-drinking caffix.gifsocial worker in HIV/AIDS ribbonred.giflady-loving ribbonrainbow.gifbike-riding bikenew.gifmom of two twins.gif
wemoon is offline  
#7 of 20 Old 07-04-2004, 02:17 AM
 
Mariposa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Not exactly sure most days...
Posts: 1,400
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: reversible with leg padding

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $47.00 + s/h

How long have you used this product? couple of weeks

Fit/Sizing: Custom fit after talking to Kristen about my size, etc. Fits perfect.

Performance: I love this sling. It is now my fave for grocery shopping, etc. It is small enough to fit in my purse, even with the padding. No adjusting necessary and it is very comfy.

Workmomship: Awesome

Customer Service/Communication: Kristen went above and beyond typical customer service and I am thankful for that. She is very nice to work with.

Would you purchase this product again? I already ordered one of her new wraps and will need another pouch sometime soon, too.

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof- No complaints at all.

Additional Comments: If you haven't tried a pouch, give Hotslings a try. Even if you have, it probably just didn't fit right. Kristen is super sweet and makes a beautiful pouch.

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
Mariposa is offline  
#8 of 20 Old 07-29-2004, 11:49 PM
 
Sarah'sMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: Pouch sling

Store/Site of purchase: http://www.hotslings.com

Price: 34.50

How long have you used this product?One day, but we already it!

Fit/Sizing: Fits great! I like my sling a little tighter for a more secure feeling. she offers a lot of sizes, and her website has great instructions for sizing.

Performance: My baby girl seems to be happy and cozy in it!

Workmomship: Excellent! Beatifully sewn!

Customer Service/Communication: Top notch-I ordered from her instock store on Sunday and was slinging on Thursday despite the fact that she's about to burst with a baby any day now!

Would you purchase this product again? Absolutely. Already thinking about purchasing another sometime!

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof- No

Additional Comments: I was about to give up on slings until I got my Hotsling. My daughter really didn't like my ring sling, so I sort of lost hope, but ordered this since I read such great things about it. I'm so glad I did!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?)
Sarah'sMama is offline  
#9 of 20 Old 08-31-2004, 06:57 PM
 
be11ydancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotslings - Violet padded pouch-style sling

Brief description of product: pouch-style sling

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $34.50 plus tax, $3.95 shipping

How long have you used this product? just received it today

Fit/Sizing: Size XS/S and it fits beautifully (I am 115 lbs. 5'4")

Performance: So far, so good

Workmomship: Flawless!

Customer Service/Communication: Very quick and positive. I ordered the wrong size originally and the exchange process was very fast and easy. I spoke with Kristen on the phone and she was very pleasant.

Would you purchase this product again? YES! Definetely.

Additional Comments: The fabric is 97% cotton, 3% lycra so it has just the perfect amount of stretch. The print is beautiful and very vibrant! I even put my 38 lb. toddler in it and she fit just fine and loved the ride! I will be using this for my 14 month old mainly. These would make excellent gifts for any expecting parent.

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):

hang.gif  

 

be11ydancer is offline  
#10 of 20 Old 10-09-2004, 02:01 PM
 
Ave'sFaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotslings Pouch

Brief description of product: Cotton stretch pouch without leg padding, size XS/S

Store/Site of purchase: Hotslings.com

Price: $20 + shipping (this was months ago!!)

How long have you used this product? 3-4 months

Fit/Sizing: perfect for me right after DD was born and 4 months later!

Performance: Great! My DD loves to be carried, and the Hotsling made carrying her easy. Even DH used it regularly when it was "daddy time"

Workmomship: Excellent!

Customer Service/Communication: Kristen has the most awesome customer service. She is very prompt in returning emails. And she resolves any problems beyond satisfaction/expectations!! I had problems with my sling shrinking after wash and she replaced them immediately!

Would you purchase this product again? If I could afford to I would buy a few more for the diaper bag, car, spring/summer/fall/winter print,etc etc

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof: see above

Additional Comments: the Hotsling is the best, easiest, most versatile baby carrier we own! We it!!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
Ave'sFaves is offline  
#11 of 20 Old 01-03-2005, 11:58 AM
 
FillingMyQuiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: searching for my sanity
Posts: 3,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: HotSlings Fleece Pouch

Brief description of product: unadjustable fleece pouch

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: I think I paid somewhere around $30, can't really remember though :LOL

How long have you used this product? in rotation w/ other carriers about 3~4 months

Fit/Sizing: I bought an instock medium, but she does custom fit

Performance: GREAT! Tried it as soon as we got it, DS fits great, I'm comfortable, and it keeps him a little warmer on cool/ colder days

Workmomship: TERRIFIC!!! There isn't anything wrong w/ this pouch. The fleece is cuddly and warm and the stitiching is perfect!

Customer Service/Communication: Kristin shipped super fast and was available for any questions I had.

Would you purchase this product again? DEFINITELY!!!

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof: NONE

Additional Comments:

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):

Jenn<>< crunchy conservative mama to 6 fencing.gif reading.gif notes2.gif fly-by-nursing2.gif

knit.gifand sewmachine.gif my way through my stash.

FillingMyQuiver is offline  
#12 of 20 Old 01-03-2005, 12:51 PM
 
ashleep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Alabama
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: tube style puch slings with or without padding in the legs

Store/Site of purchase: http://www.hotslings.com

Price: $37 (I think)

How long have you used this product? about a month

Fit/Sizing: I use xs/s, and it fits great!

Performance: I have yet to find something I dislike about this sling. It's comfy and dd is very snug and secure in it.

Workmomship: Excellent!

Customer Service/Communication: Terrific!
Would you purchase this product again? Absolutely

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof- At Kristin's suggestion I ordered an xs/s about two weeks after dd's birth and it was so big! I thought her sizes either run big or I was a lot smaller than I thought. After about a month of trying to figure it out, I sent it back for adjusting. It turns out it was a med. instead of a xs/s. Kristin was very apologetic and refunded my shipping costs for the alteration. It was the easiest customer service issue I have ever had.

Additional Comments:Try a fleece one!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
ashleep is offline  
#13 of 20 Old 01-17-2005, 02:35 AM
 
hmhopkins77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotslings - cotton stretch with padded rails

Brief description of product:tube style puch slings with or without padding in the legs

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $34.50

How long have you used this product? 1 week

Fit/Sizing: XS/S

Performance: excellent

Workmomship:excellent

Customer Service/Communication: great

Would you purchase this product again? yes

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof

Additional Comments: beautiful sling!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
hmhopkins77 is offline  
#14 of 20 Old 02-06-2005, 02:36 PM
 
alena426's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotslings - cotton stretch with padded rails

Brief description of product:tube style pouch slings with or without padding in the legs

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $34.50

How long have you used this product? 2 weeks

Fit/Sizing: m/l, the sizing instructions are easy to follow and worked for me

Performance: SO far it is great I love how quick and easy it is to use

Workmomship: exceptional workmanship.

Customer Service/Communication: great

Would you purchase this product again? yes, in fact i will

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof

Additional Comments:

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
alena426 is offline  
#15 of 20 Old 03-05-2005, 09:13 PM
 
CraftyMommaOf2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In Transition
Posts: 717
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i thought i had done this! :

Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: custom reversible tube style puch sling with padding in the legs

Store/Site of purchase: http://www.hotslings.com

Price: $55 (trade)

How long have you used this product? ~2 mths

Fit/Sizing: it fits absolutely perfectly

Performance: It is awesome! I can carry my 7 mth old or my 3 yr old.

Workmomship: Excellent!

Customer Service/Communication: Again, excellent!

Would you purchase this product again? Most definitely

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof- None

Additional Comments: Kristen was fantastic to work with!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
CraftyMommaOf2 is offline  
#16 of 20 Old 03-13-2005, 12:37 PM
 
ashleep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Alabama
Posts: 1,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: hotsling

Brief description of product: nonadjustable pouch sling

Store/Site of purchase: hotslings.com

Price: ~$40

How long have you used this product? 2 weeks

Fit/Sizing: I got an xs and it fits great! I love a high/tight carry.

Performance: no problems yet

Workmomship: Great!!!

Customer Service/Communication: Great!!!

Would you purchase this product again? absolutely

Have you made a complaint to the WAHM about the product? If yes, please provide details of any resolution or lack thereof

Additional Comments: This is my second hotsling and I love this one just as much as my fleece one. She ships quickly too!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
ashleep is offline  
#17 of 20 Old 04-01-2005, 07:18 PM
 
UmmBnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling

Brief description of product: Unadjustable pouch sling in cotton and cotton stretch fabrics

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $35.00

How long have you used this product? 1 week

Fit/Sizing: to order- make sure that you measure yourself correctly

Performance: wonderful!

Workmomship: fabulous

Customer Service/Communicationonderful- Purchased from Mama Nature. Was too small, she mailed new one before I'd returned.

Would you purchase this product again?YES

Additional Comments: I've alway been a ring slinger but with this baby I"m finding I prefer a pouch. Hotslings are really great!

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
UmmBnB is offline  
#18 of 20 Old 06-25-2005, 03:19 PM
 
Quindin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,761
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling Pouch

Store/Site of purchase: www.attachedtobaby.com

Price: $50.00

How long have you used this product? This specific Hotsling for 1 day, but I have worn Hotslings for 4 months now.

Fit/Sizing: There are 7 different sizes. It is VERY important you get the correct size. Hotsling are SUPER comfy, so if yours isn't, then it is because you have the wrong size. I tried a 6 and a 4 before I realized my correct size is a 5. I LOVE how comfy it is and how perfect it fits now. You might want to join the Hotslings yahoo group for questions regarding sizing.

Performance:

Workmomship: AMAZING!!

Customer Service/Communicationonderful-I bought mine from a retailer this time, but when I bought it directly from Kristen her customer service and shipping speed were just great!

Would you purchase this product again? I have already and will definetely be buying another one!!

Additional Comments:
LOVE IT!!!! It is my baby's favorite carrier actually :LOL
I have a reversible Thao (STUNNING!!) and a Hotsling solarveil pool pouch (PERFECT for the summer!!)
I am getting one for my brother's wife and one for my husband's sister - I have to pass on the Hotsling love!!!


I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?):
Quindin is offline  
#19 of 20 Old 11-21-2005, 02:21 AM
 
nfpmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro atlanta
Posts: 923
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotsling sateen stretch pouch

Store/Site of purchase: www.hotslings.com

Price: $49.00

How long have you used this product? 2 months

Fit/Sizing: It is absolutely essential that you get a well-fitting sling, otherwise it falls off your shoulder, baby slumps to the side,a nd it hurts your back. Fitting is a big PIA and I actually had to go through 3 different sizes (which means sending back and forth) before finding the one that worked for me. But then the stretch fabric stretches out and the fit isn't perfect until you wash it again and it re-tightens.

Performance: I am only moderately happy with this sling. I find that is slips down on my shoulder after a while (or if I lift the arm that the sling is on). Additionally, I don't like having to always refold and untwist it every time I put the baby in. This might just be a thing about pouches in general, but I do find it to be a bit of a pain. For hip carries I find that the baby leans further away from my body than feels safe, so I have to flip the shoulder over to tighten it up, but then the flip keeps sliding off and the baby leans back again.

Workmomship: Really sturdy.

Customer Service/Communication: Excellent. I know that I was a big PIA because of the sizing issues, but the woman at Hotslings with whom I emailed back and forth was alwasy cheerful and happy to help me get a well-fitting sling. They were alwasy quick to ship out the replacements. Tip top customer service!

Would you purchase this product again? No.

Additional Comments:
The fabric is really cool. After having gone through 3 patterns and sizes I have found that the colors are always much brighter in real life than on the website. The sateen and stretch cotton pouches stretch out after use, so a nice fitting sling can turn loose and floppy and insecure after a couple of wears. Washing the sling returns the sling to a better fit. I just don't love it though. I want to love it because the people at the company are so nice and the fabric is really cool. I just don't love it though.

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?): Three.
nfpmom is offline  
#20 of 20 Old 04-29-2007, 10:53 PM
 
RockStarMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: California
Posts: 1,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Product name: Hotslings

Brief description of product: Non-adjustable pouch sling

Store/Site of purchase: I've had two: one from www.hotslings.com and one from www.hipandlittle.com

Price: The basic one was ~$50, the reversible one was ~$70

How long have you used this product? Over a year

Fit/Sizing: The sizing calculator was totally off for me. I bought a size 2 like it said, and this was my only sling I bought before the baby came, and it didn't fit. I was so busy and stressed that I wasn't able to get another until a few months later. So because of that I would definitely have an adjustable sling before baby arrives next time so I'm not stuck without a sling if the non-adjustable one doesn't fit.
It turns out that I was a 5, not a 2. : But once I figured that out, it was perfect.
My daughter ended up outgrowing the size 5 around 9 months-ish, and I got a size 6 after that. So I lost a little money having to change sizes, but it was well worth it to not have to ever deal with adjusting the sling.

Performance: Outstanding

Workmomship: Outstanding

Customer Service/Communication: Outstanding

Would you purchase this product again? Without a doubt!

Additional Comments: INCREDIBLE selection of fabrics! This was my favorite sling until my toddler got too heavy to wear it for very long stretches. Highly recommended.

I give it (How many thumbs up out of five?): 5!
RockStarMom is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off