What if new moms had to sign a waiver? - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-10-2009, 11:17 PM
 
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More then just Nestle makes formula.. unless I am reading you wrong.
I think she's saying that, of the companies that make formula, the only food company that makes it is Nestle -- the other formula manufacturers are pharmaceutical companies (Abbott, etc.).

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Old 06-10-2009, 11:24 PM
 
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Yeah, it's very difficult. I met a new mom at playgroup recently, new in the sense that it was her first child, and she was very nervous, but the baby was toddler age. She mentioned that she lost her milk at 3 months, and she told her doctor, who just said that happens sometimes.

I was thinking, man, he didn't try to explore it at all, find out if she had really lost it, or if so, why, or what they could do about it. She really didn't have much of a chance to do anything, after she had managed for 3 months. That's the most basic kind of problem that has to be fixed.

I wasn't sure what to say to her, since it was done, but I thought she would likely have more kids, so I just said that a lot of doctors don't know much about BF. I hope it just sticks in her head for next time.
That is one of the more bizarre things about this situation. I've heard things like that too and it makes no sense. I mean, what if a woman came to her doctor and said, "Doctor, I stopped salivating!"


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Old 06-10-2009, 11:31 PM
 
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That is one of the more bizarre things about this situation. I've heard things like that too and it makes no sense. I mean, what if a woman came to her doctor and said, "Doctor, I stopped salivating!"

: my doctor would say "i told you to drink a lot of water, amphetamines give you dry mouth" but if i went in and told her i stopped lactating she would ask if it happened after i stopped nursing.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:41 PM
 
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By that respect, in that we are seeking to create a systemic change where breastfeeding becomes the norm, it is our business. The whole point of this forum is to be concerned with breastfeeding.

I do agree that bullying has no place in this, but it would be inappropriate to come to an activism forum and tell people to mind their own business and not to engage in activism.
Yes indeed, but why is the activism so often directed at new mothers, instead of at the real sources of BF failure: the medical system and formula promotion? If doctors were as recklessly misinformed about diabetes or hypertension as they are about lactation, or if hospitals were as bad at treating disease as they are at facilitating nursing, it would be a national scandal.
Blaming FF mothers is letting the real culprits off the hook!
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:44 PM
 
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Yes indeed, but why is the activism so often directed at new mothers, instead of at the real sources of BF failure: the medical system and formula promotion? If doctors were as recklessly misinformed about diabetes or hypertension as they are about lactation, or if hospitals were as bad at treating disease as they are at facilitating nursing, it would be a national scandal.
Blaming FF mothers is letting the real culprits off the hook!
Well, I think that's what this thread is trying to suss out. Someone made a suggestion. Some people think it's a great idea. Others feel that it's not. I personally agree with your points, but lactivists all have their own ideas. One of the purposes of this forum is to think about and critique campaigns and ideas.

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Old 06-10-2009, 11:44 PM
 
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Yes indeed, but why is the activism so often directed at new mothers, instead of at the real sources of BF failure: the medical system and formula promotion? If doctors were as recklessly misinformed about diabetes or hypertension as they are about lactation, or if hospitals were as bad at treating disease as they are at facilitating nursing, it would be a national scandal.
Blaming FF mothers is letting the real culprits off the hook!
b/c they have lobbyists with more money then we do so politicians prefer to pretend they don't see a problem with any of it?

if thats not it then i really don't know b/c many other gov. seem to have caught on to the whole bfing is good thing.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:08 AM
 
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I am opposed to harrassing and haruanging a person simply because they make a decision that is different from what I would make.
I vax, but I wouldn't support a waiver similiar to the above for parents who choose not to do so.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:15 AM
 
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I am opposed to harrassing and haruanging a person simply because they make a decision that is different from what I would make.
I vax, but I wouldn't support a waiver similiar to the above for parents who choose not to do so.
i had to sign a waiver to vax and then when we stopped i had to sign a waiver not to.

fwiw i think vax and bfing are different b/c we know for a fact that BM is best in most cases.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:16 AM
 
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Yes indeed, but why is the activism so often directed at new mothers, instead of at the real sources of BF failure: the medical system and formula promotion? If doctors were as recklessly misinformed about diabetes or hypertension as they are about lactation, or if hospitals were as bad at treating disease as they are at facilitating nursing, it would be a national scandal.
Blaming FF mothers is letting the real culprits off the hook!
ITA but OTOH education and knowing your rights does a LOT to save yourself from becoming a victim.

I must miss all the threads where mothers who feed formula to their infants are bashed. I think that's pretty mean and sure to backfire on people.

But directing the process of change and improvement to the mothers? Seems logical to me. I want as much stuff directed at me as possible. I'll wade through it, research it and then be happy to make the right choice. Bypasses the uneducated (generalized majority) of the medical field quite well.

I sure do wish for reform in the medical industry as I want to be a part of it. But it isn't coming anytime soon and meanwhile women and children are being harmed. I could sit back and say it isn't my business but I can't sleep at night doing that so I try to do what I can.

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Old 06-11-2009, 12:29 AM
 
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I've noticed that a lot of the issues in this thread are actually not about BF or formula at all. They are about cost of health care.
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I sure do wish for reform in the medical industry as I want to be a part of it.
Not to be obvious or anything, but doesn't this problem have its roots in our medicalization of birth and breastfeeding? Should our initiation into motherhood occur on an industrial scale? Yikes.

I used to want to become involved in public health and reform. I'm glad there are lactivists and a forum like this one. But the idea of mamas spending their first hours and days of motherhood filling out forms of any kind makes me ill. I believe that moving birth out of the medical-industrial complex ought to go hand-in-hand with lactivism. Many, many of us are like the confused mama gorilla when we're in there, no?

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Old 06-11-2009, 12:38 AM
 
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Not to be obvious or anything, but doesn't this problem have its roots in our medicalization of birth and breastfeeding? Should our initiation into motherhood occur on an industrial scale? Yikes.

I used to want to become involved in public health and reform. I'm glad there are lactivists and a forum like this one. But the idea of mamas spending their first hours and days of motherhood filling out forms of any kind makes me ill. I believe that moving birth out of the medical-industrial complex ought to go hand-in-hand with lactivism. Many, many of us are like the confused mama gorilla when we're in there, no?
I have wanted to be a neonatologist since childhood. Several factors are delaying me. The over medicalisation of pregnancy, childbirth and neonatal care are some of them.

The quote that you highlighted was in response to a different argument. So I would think that we actually are agreeing here...

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Old 06-11-2009, 12:47 AM
 
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I agree with everything you've posted. I should have just quoted the pairing of "medical" with "industry." -not to single you out, but rather to highlight how it is in fact an industry when it should be nothing of the kind.

I have wanted to be a FNP/CNM for years. But I am doing local breastfeeding support and such instead. I assisted a CNM at home births for several years, and what I found in that short time was that new mothers need to be mothered and to get back to what I call "the human things." I used to be all for working within systems as the OP seems to suggest, but now I've taken to the streets.

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Old 06-11-2009, 12:50 AM
 
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I wish i could say there was one thing we as lactivists to do to get women to breastfeed and keep them doing it. Honestly, there isn't a magic bullet here.

YOu can blame the establishment. I work in the establishment, we have a tremendously successful breastfeeding program, I honestly have experienced nothing less than absolute support for breastfeeding in my career. It is possible (and normal where i live but I've been informed we're outliers)
STILL we have moms who choose not to. For whatever reason.

I like to blame (because I am sometimes a snarkzilla) the fact that people have unrealistic expectations of parenthood. You won't likely get much sleep the first few days. That is NORMAL!!! And yes, it's exhausting. And temporary. SOmetimes your nipples get really sore! That also passes and there is help. So many parents end up wanting the quick fix. Enter fomula. And from there it is a steep and slippery slope.

Anyway, I have so much more to say on this but I shant.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:54 AM
 
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i actually agree with you about unrealistic expectations. of parenthood and of parents. FF, CIO, etc is advice people give to moms and says it easier. wtf? what does easier have to do with it? i don't find the extra work of ff easy and i dont find it easy to listen to my baby cry. and even if i did.. i didn't sign up for easy... its not about easy its about whats necessary and right.

people have no patience babies are supposed to be independent adults 6 months after birth. it is just plain weird.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:56 AM
 
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I agree with everything you've posted. I should have just quoted the pairing of "medical" with "industry." -not to single you out, but rather to highlight how it is in fact an industry when it should be nothing of the kind.

I have wanted to be a FNP/CNM for years. But I am doing local breastfeeding support and such instead. I assisted a CNM at home births for several years, and what I found in that short time was that new mothers need to be mothered and to get back to what I call "the human things." I used to be all for working within systems as the OP seems to suggest, but now I've taken to the streets.
ah I see! But I intended to use that phrasing b/c it is.

I've found my interest (in-utero surgery/neonatal emergency surgery) to be a bit more tainted than I once dreamed of as a young'un.

My homebirth experience left me eager to be a midwife but TBH I don't think it quite hits the spot.

I think I will probably end up in forensics as an M.E.


As for your last paragraph, ITA. I think we are grappling at a humongous issue that spreads across cultural and sociological planes. Think about it...since formula became widespread in America we are talking about several generations are fully formula fed humans. This ties in with other things too such as (unnecessary) c-sections and homebirth vs. hospital birth.

Wasn't there just a thread on here about how teens didn't know they had mammary glands? And I believe a lactivism group on facebook was discussing a kid who thought the only way to birth was to cut open the stomach.

We are forgetting ourselves and that comes with a heavy price to pay.

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Old 06-11-2009, 01:33 AM
 
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It would completely tick me off to have to get permission from the appointed medical officials to feed my child formula if I thought it was necessary. I am opposed to granting the medical establishment any more control than it already has.

IMO they should have to get MY permission to feed my child formula...but I would not want to have to get THEIR permission to make a decision about using formula or not.
I agree absolutely. I'm not a big fan of the power that medpros have, and this just seems way outside what they should have a say over.

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Old 06-11-2009, 12:00 PM
 
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I agree absolutely. I'm not a big fan of the power that medpros have, and this just seems way outside what they should have a say over.
So, how DO we decide when something should require, say, a perscription? Is it about the danger? Individual freedoms? What will give the best results for the most people or for society?

I know I've been told if Tylenol came on the market today, it would be a prescription medication.

OTOH, here they recently made it so the morning after pill does NOT require a prescription. They were at first having the pharmacist counsel the women that requested it (how to take it, possible side effects), but some women complained, and they stopped, which struck me as the political really trumping the realities of the drug therapy involved.

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Old 06-11-2009, 12:22 PM
 
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i think the morning after pill is OTC to make it available to women and girls who do not have insurance or easy access to a Doctor or w/e. if it were prescription women w/o insurance would have to pay out of pocket for the doctors appt to get the prescription and the actual medication.

also in the states where it is available to minors (i think there are some) girls who prefer not to tell their parents/guardians or are, for more sinister reasons, unable to tell them would be able to get it. most of them would not be able to if a prescription is required. most people have some what easy access to pharmacies.. not all have it to doctors.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:24 PM
 
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I have a question for those who support formula through prescription only. How would that work? Would a mom have to be diagnosed with a certain condition before she gets it or would they have to diagnose the baby with something (i.e. starvation, failure to thrive) before they would receive the prescription? What if a doctor didn't want to prescribe it and told the mom to go home and just try harder?
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:31 PM
 
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What if a doctor didn't want to prescribe it and told the mom to go home and just try harder?
i don't actually support formula by prescription... but if most doctors did that i don't think we would even need to have a lactivism forum. unfortunately many doctors are just like "oh hm you *insert ailment, emotion, difficulty here* well you gave it a shot heres a formula sample"

and the ones who support Breast feeding and are informed about it would probably be able to recognize when it is time to accept that formula is necessary and be grateful it is available.

fwiw i don't like the idea of a woman who is having difficulty BFing having to ask for formula and then being told to try harder.. this is one of the reasons education is so important... and doctors shouldn't have control over something like the manor in which we feed our children. telling a mother to try harder without offering any help or telling her where she can get help is just going to make her feel like a failure and maybe resort to less desirable feeding methods then Formula.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:33 PM
 
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ITA that parental consent for what medical people do to your kid is a totally different ballgame than medical consent for parental choices. I would support a waiver/consent form for them to feed formula, but not formula by prescription.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:42 PM
 
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ITA that parental consent for what medical people do to your kid is a totally different ballgame than medical consent for parental choices. I would support a waiver/consent form for them to feed formula, but not formula by prescription.
: if you don't sign they *theoretically* can't feed your kid formula. i don't know why they always seem to be so into the idea though. if a newborn is crying or w/e take him to his mother if she is available. if not take him to his father if available.. and if not just hold him and move on.. he doesn't need to eat right away. and the effort should be made to return baby to his/her parents instead of feeding baby a bottle.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:36 PM
 
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What if a doctor didn't want to prescribe it and told the mom to go home and just try harder?
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i don't actually support formula by prescription... but if most doctors did that i don't think we would even need to have a lactivism forum.
i was a nineteen year old first time mom with no support told to "try harder" by my sons pediatrician. it was of absolutely no help. try harder? oh, ok.

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Old 06-11-2009, 05:50 PM
 
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i was a nineteen year old first time mom with no support told to "try harder" by my sons pediatrician. it was of absolutely no help. try harder? oh, ok.
did you ask him what you should be doing that would be trying harder? b/c i assume that if a woman is asking for help she is making a lot more than a half a$$ed attempt. yk?
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:41 PM
 
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did you ask him what you should be doing that would be trying harder? b/c i assume that if a woman is asking for help she is making a lot more than a half a$$ed attempt. yk?
i honestly don't remember, that little baby i had so much trouble with will be fifteen this year.

the pediatrician was dismissive, did not offer help beyond that bit of wisdom. i don't personally find that "if most doctors did that i don't think we would even need to have a lactivism forum" to be true in my case. condescending maybe!

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Old 06-11-2009, 08:52 PM
 
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what i meant was that if the first response of doctors was in favor of breast feeding instead of switching to formula more women would start BFing and more would do it longer .. not if they all just said keep trying and expect you to figure it out.

thats not anymore helpful then switch to formula really.. like maybe the first few weeks or so it might get better w/ practice... or if its a problem that will get better over time like being overly tired or constant nursing... but other than that you need someone w/ experience to help get things on track. assuming doctors were actually in favor of breast feeding they would know someone who could help you... or if they were in favor of nursing more women would BF so you would have many friends and such with experience to offer assistance.

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Old 06-12-2009, 12:56 PM
 
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I have a question for those who support formula through prescription only. How would that work? Would a mom have to be diagnosed with a certain condition before she gets it or would they have to diagnose the baby with something (i.e. starvation, failure to thrive) before they would receive the prescription? What if a doctor didn't want to prescribe it and told the mom to go home and just try harder?
Well, I don't know that I support it, and I don't know how they do it in places where it is by prescription. My thought, though, is that perhaps it would be prescribed by a lactation consultant. After all, that is who you would go to for BF problems. Or perhaps the nurse that visits the home to help with BF and so on after the birth. If it were going to be a long-term thing, it would be an open prescription. Ideally, they could also prescribe banked milk if available.

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Old 06-12-2009, 04:04 PM
 
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What if you just don't want to nurse though? What if you have to go back to work and pumping is not feasible? What if you find nursing traumatic, brings up past memories, body image issues, etc etc what have you? You have to explain all that to a doc or LC and see if they 'approve' of it as reason not to feed your baby? Or it's just off the radar, those reasons dont count? What would that kind of situation do to your bonding with your baby? To baby's access to food, whether breastmilk or formula? To ensure people aren't mixing stuff up at home out of evaporated milk and corn syrup like in the old days?

I think formula by prescription is a really really bad idea.
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:24 PM
 
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What if you just don't want to nurse though? What if you have to go back to work and pumping is not feasible? What if you find nursing traumatic, brings up past memories, body image issues, etc etc what have you? You have to explain all that to a doc or LC and see if they 'approve' of it as reason not to feed your baby? Or it's just off the radar, those reasons dont count? What would that kind of situation do to your bonding with your baby? To baby's access to food, whether breastmilk or formula? To ensure people aren't mixing stuff up at home out of evaporated milk and corn syrup like in the old days?

I think formula by prescription is a really really bad idea.
ITA

I have a huge problem with forcing women who don't want to breastfeed to nurse. I'm a big believer in "her body, her choice" even when it comes to breastfeeding. I want women to [I]want[I] to nurse, I don't want them to feel like they have to do something with their body that they aren't comfortable with. I wish milk banks were more of an option for people who don't want to nurse for whatever reason.

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Old 06-12-2009, 04:47 PM
 
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Well, I don't know that I support it, and I don't know how they do it in places where it is by prescription. My thought, though, is that perhaps it would be prescribed by a lactation consultant. After all, that is who you would go to for BF problems. Or perhaps the nurse that visits the home to help with BF and so on after the birth. If it were going to be a long-term thing, it would be an open prescription. Ideally, they could also prescribe banked milk if available.
I don't think lactation consultants or nurses are qualified to prescribe meds.

If someone had a prescription for formula, how much of a supply would they get per prescription?
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