Time article on exclusive pumping - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 45 Old 03-17-2010, 05:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tanyam926 View Post
I don't think it's being nitpicky to point out the innaccuracies and overall tone of the article as perpetuating the myth that BF at the breast is equal to feeding breastmilk from a bottle. It's just pointing out the facts. IMO, we don't do anyone any favors by not giving all the info so that women can make an informed decision.

Stating the facts is also not saying that a woman has to BF the perfect way or it isn't good enough.

There are many more things going on when a child is at the breast than *just* getting nourishment.

I really don't get the purpose of the article other than to say, "See, we can BF our babies w/out exposing ourselves, unlike you heathens", which is the attitude that a lot of the public has towards BF. Most people aren't convinced of the superior quality of BM to formula, and a large number of those that are convinced think that we should be able to BF "discretely", or at home, or when it's convenient to everyone else.

Mothers who pump bc they have to be away from their babies, I applaud you, bc it is difficult and not recognized in society as such.

If society could start looking at BF as THE way to feed babies, and everything else as secondary then articles like these would never make it print. It's only acceptable bc we are not a society that recognizes the importance of BF, or the importance of the mother/child relationship. It's sad.
I agree - especially with the bolded parts. This is - again - not about making mothers "feel guilty" but about providing correct information. It's about breastfeeding being "normal" as opposed to being "best". In my opinion, it's also about what's really important in life. I dare to assume that I'm not the only mother on this forum who had to listen to "I wouldn't have had time FOR THAT" (that what... nonsense? unnecessary luxury? sitting on the couch while other people have to work?). Why is it that "other things to do" seem innately more important than taking care of our children's needs?

Unless a mother knows that EP is a compromise for the reasons already mentioned it's not an informed decision.

To top it off: today's e-mail from a well-know mainstream parenting forum talks about "Learn how to feed your baby breastmilk longer" (?!) - aimed at pregnant women, including advertisements for pumps and a few other "must-haves" for stylish mamas. Under "Prepare your breasts for a new kind of attention" you have the option to watch 4 video clips with "real life mothers". I haven't watched the clips but I find it interesting that the starting pictures don't show mothers breastfeeding and are surrounded by commercials for nipple cream, bottles (supposedly imitating the "technique" of nursing at the breast), and a pump.

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#32 of 45 Old 03-17-2010, 12:44 PM
 
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[QUOTE=RoseDuperre;15186944] Efficient antibody production - most antibodies are produced via baby's mouth at mom's nipple: the nipple reacts to the germs in baby's saliva and starts producing them right there.

QUOTE]

This is inaccurate. The site of acquitision of "germs" from the baby is in the upper aerodigestive tract (nose and mouth). There is little to no immune exchange from baby to mom at the nipple. Antibodies are actually produced in these same sites, and only secreted into the milk at the breast.

There are a million and one reasons not to EP by choice, but this isn't one of them.

-Sandstress, veteran 16 month EPer for NICU babe DD1, and current nurser to DD2.
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#33 of 45 Old 03-17-2010, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by proudmomof4 View Post
Unless a mother knows that EP is a compromise for the reasons already mentioned it's not an informed decision.
For DD1, EPing was a godsend. She had too well ingrained nipple preference from various NICU policies and procedures, and EP was the best I could do. It is, however, a compromise in a woman who could otherwise nurse.
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#34 of 45 Old 03-17-2010, 06:57 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Sandstress;15195274]
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Originally Posted by RoseDuperre View Post
Efficient antibody production - most antibodies are produced via baby's mouth at mom's nipple: the nipple reacts to the germs in baby's saliva and starts producing them right there.

QUOTE]

This is inaccurate. The site of acquitision of "germs" from the baby is in the upper aerodigestive tract (nose and mouth). There is little to no immune exchange from baby to mom at the nipple. Antibodies are actually produced in these same sites, and only secreted into the milk at the breast.

There are a million and one reasons not to EP by choice, but this isn't one of them.

-Sandstress, veteran 16 month EPer for NICU babe DD1, and current nurser to DD2.
I know I found this somewhere. I'll stand corrected if necessary, but first I'll see if I can find the source.
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#35 of 45 Old 03-17-2010, 10:17 PM
 
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Ok, so I have been on both sides. With DS, I had an oversupply. I would drain one side and I could pump 8 oz out of the other. So sometimes it was faster to pump & have DH bottle feed while I cleaned the pump stuff, but then I missed out on the holding & snuggling. So to me, it was worth the extra time. I CLW with DS and pumped at work. I also donated my oversupply. With DD, I still had a lot of milk, but she ate more frequently, so I did not have to pump every time (just a couple of times a day). But I was stocking up for when I went back to work. Then she had a near-SIDS event at 4 months. I have been EPing for almost 8 months now because she is tube fed. My supply is much lower, although I still have enough not to have to supplement. I EP by force, not choice, and still hope one day we can get her back to the breast (even if she is 3).

I am glad all those EPing mom's are providing breastmilk for their babes, but I am sad that they are missing the closeness of BFing. I also find it discouraging that some of them were so disparaging of a relationship I desperatley want back.

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#36 of 45 Old 03-19-2010, 11:40 PM
 
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[QUOTE=RoseDuperre;15196856]
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Originally Posted by Sandstress View Post

I know I found this somewhere. I'll stand corrected if necessary, but first I'll see if I can find the source.
I couldn't find it when I was searching a few months back. One woman did discuss it on her site but with no reference. I found nothing else.

As far as the article, I wonder if that first mom would have chosen EP'ing if she hadn't such an easy time of it? It sounds like she had oversupply going on. Would EP'ing have been easier if she had to pump 8x a day for 30 minutes each time and take fenugreek, blessed thistle, and Dom? Oh and eek out maybe 3-4 oz per session if lucky. Hmmm..

I EP'd for 3 months until I got my DS to breast and while I was willing to do it long term, nursing is WAY better. We're still nursing and I doubt I would still be EP'ing if that were the case. Yes I think EP'ing is a valid, better choice than formula but I'd like to see more mothers nursing .

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#37 of 45 Old 03-24-2010, 04:33 PM
 
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my sister is one of those people who "chooses" to EP. she is a SAHM, and "tried" breastfeeding, but gave up about 1 week in. from what i could tell, the combo of a c-section and unhelpful hospital staff pretty much sealed the deal. however, she is a veritable dairy cow who easily pumps (with a manual!!) enough to feed her very big baby boy. i could see the benefits when our family was visiting over the holidays... she would go pump for 15 minutes, and one of the 6 other people in the house would happily take the baby and pop a bottle in his mouth. meanwhile, when family was visiting me after my baby was born, i would spend upwards of 45 min struggling with my preemie baby to get her on the breast and nursing effectively, and i often left the room with her because i wanted the quiet and privacy of my bedroom to focus. so at the time, it sure seemed easier to EP than to figure out BFing.

now though, i wonder how things are going. when no one is home but her, she has to feed him and deal with pumping, whereas my baby is finally getting the hang of the breat and often only takes 10-15 to eat. she's also around the point where many mamas find that their supply tanks if they're EPing (4months) and since she's already starting him on cereals, i wonder how long she's going to be able to keep up her supply. things are getting easier and easier for me (next hurdle, NIPing effectively), and things will only get more complicated for her.

that article really bothered me because i could see my sister's decision making being prompted by the same ideas. the fact is, EPing IS a lot easier for a first time mom in the first couple of weeks. no nipple pain, no bad latches, no fighting to get a tiny uncooperative baby on the breast. i am annoyed that the article didn't adequately address the difficulties of EPing down the line.
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#38 of 45 Old 03-24-2010, 04:43 PM
 
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For DD1, EPing was a godsend. She had too well ingrained nipple preference from various NICU policies and procedures, and EP was the best I could do. It is, however, a compromise in a woman who could otherwise nurse.
Right. It's only a compromise if there is the choice to nurse. Babies or mothers who absolutely cannot nurse from the tap, for whatever reason (extreme nipple preference/confusion, cleft palates, severe hypotonia, etc) are getting the #1 best thing for their specific situation.

Chicken pox, measles, influenza, etc. antibodies are not produced at/ in the nipple while nursing. They are present in breastmilk if they are present in the mother. However, EP'ing mothers can always choose to slather some of their babies saliva on their nipples from time to time if they are concerned!

When scientific tests are performed on samples of breastmilk for antibodies and stem cells and all the other wonderful things proven to be present, a baby did not suck it from a breast and spit it into a test tube. It was all pumped, all breastmilk tested from all of the literature we have on breastmilk. That right there proves pumped milk is pretty darn great!

I would never choose to EP for no reason if I were able to nurse. That said, I know several people who have, and I'm utterly convinced it enabled their babies to get breastmilk MUCH longer than they would have if it hadn't been an option. I think it's more likely that mothers who would have formula fed are choosing to EP, rather than mothers who would have nursed from the tap choosing to EP. But either way? It's really up to the woman to decide if that's what works best for her- EP'ed babies can still be "exclusively breastfed" and enjoy the majority of the benefits of typically breastfed babies, so I don't think it's anti-lactivist overall.


~ EP'ed 21 months for DD with cleft palate and zero ability to create suction on anything until well after her surgeries.

DD1 7/13/05 DD2 9/20/10
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#39 of 45 Old 03-24-2010, 04:57 PM
 
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I am glad all those EPing mom's are providing breastmilk for their babes, but I am sad that they are missing the closeness of BFing.
I'm sad that people decide I've missed out on a closeness with my daughter. You'd feel the same way about your children if they weren't able to nurse, I promise you! Love knows no bounds. I held my baby and looked into her eyes every time she had a bottle. If I hadn't been as close to her as I was, I wouldn't have been able to sacrifice what I did to EP for nearly 2 years.

DD1 7/13/05 DD2 9/20/10
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#40 of 45 Old 03-25-2010, 02:37 PM
 
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All other issues aside, ITA this can be a big social problem: especially the way the article opens with the example of the mother who didn't want to bf because of feeling isolated.

I'm still new at this, and I can definitely say that if I remotely gave a hoot at what other people thought about me bfing around them, I probably would have switched to pumping a long time ago. I'm so used to people leaving the room and me sitting there by myself with DD that I hardly even notice it anymore. I just decided not to care. I feed her where we're comfortable and usually hope that other people will stick around and get used to it. I figure the only way things will change is if we put breastfeeding out there as much as possible.

But that's just my personality--not everyone feels that way. That's why it's so important for those of us who ARE comfortable NIP to do so whenever we get the chance. This article was a great reminder of that.
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#41 of 45 Old 03-26-2010, 12:04 PM
 
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Seems like a lot of work... Too much for me, I take the lazy route and actually breast feed my kids.
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#42 of 45 Old 03-26-2010, 06:45 PM
 
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...I would never choose to EP for no reason if I were able to nurse. That said, I know several people who have, and I'm utterly convinced it enabled their babies to get breastmilk MUCH longer than they would have if it hadn't been an option. I think it's more likely that mothers who would have formula fed are choosing to EP, rather than mothers who would have nursed from the tap choosing to EP. But either way? It's really up to the woman to decide if that's what works best for her- EP'ed babies can still be "exclusively breastfed" and enjoy the majority of the benefits of typically breastfed babies, so I don't think it's anti-lactivist overall....


Thank you for eloquently saying what I've been wanting to say for a while.
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#43 of 45 Old 03-28-2010, 01:46 AM
 
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Thank you for eloquently saying what I've been wanting to say for a while.

Exactly. I EP'ed for my son out of medical necessity for 13 months (he then became intolerant to my milk- very rare, but it happened). I breastfeed my daughter directly, as she doesn't have oral hypotonia like my son had.

I consider that BOTH of my children were/are exclusively breastfed.
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#44 of 45 Old 03-28-2010, 09:51 AM
 
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Exactly. I EP'ed for my son out of medical necessity for 13 months (he then became intolerant to my milk- very rare, but it happened). I breastfeed my daughter directly, as she doesn't have oral hypotonia like my son had.

I consider that BOTH of my children were/are exclusively breastfed.
awww, congratulations! you did a wonderful thing!

i know for me, the frustration with the article is not that they are talking about ep'ing, but that they make ep'ing out to be 'the same' as bf directly at breast. i ep'ed for my son for 6 months and it is NOT the same. i am one of the weird ones who take to the pump better than the baby, and my current baby i started out ep'ing (preemie in nicu 17 days, came home 100% bottles) and got her to all bfeedings at around 6 weeks old. ep'ing for me meant better output, but the work involved is nuts. i can honestly see some mothers reading this article and being convinced that they can ep and finding out all the work involved and either switching to ff because they are exhausted, or never establishing a supply because they don't pump enough or can not respond adequately to the pump.

i KNOW ep gets bmilk to babies who otherwise would be ff. my son had sensorioromotor issues and could not breastfeed. he could not latch deeply or he would retch. i finally quit due to sheer exhaustion and i am sad because i was still pumping 60+ oz/day when i quit.

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#45 of 45 Old 04-25-2010, 09:01 PM
 
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Yeah, this article made me none too happy.

I have struggled to nurse this baby, and while he was able to do it for a time, things got progressively worse, he wasn't gaining weight normally, and finally, he was diagnosed with hypotonia. At almost 12 weeks now, he can't hold his head up, and his upper body tone is quite weak.

So, I've been EPing for him for the past 26 days. He was able to nurse before that, but barely. We're starting PT soon, so I keep hoping that somehow, there will be a way to start nursing again, but I don't know if that's realistic.

It irritates me that anyone would actually believe that EPing is easier. I think it's twice the work that nursing was. Trying to deal with a three year old, feeding the baby, washing bottles, and praying my pump doesn't die (I'm on my second one), is very stressful. I'm always worried about my supply, and being home in time to pump. At least while I was nursing, I could nurse wherever I was easily, not so with pumping.

I can't imagine that anyone chooses to do this because it's easier. There is nothing easier about it.

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