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#1 of 26 Old 03-07-2004, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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On Friday, I took the baby to visit my older DD's nursery school. There were a couple other women that I knew visiting with their kids. While we were there, I started nursing my baby. While we were nursing, I was watching one of the other women fix a bottle for her 1-2 months old baby. She had warm water in a thermos which she poured into a bottle, then she went and added some cold water from the sink in the room, then she checked the water measurement and had to pour some out, then she added powder and shook up the bottle. Her baby was making this mewling cry while she was doing all this. I thought, wow, it is so hard to formula feed. She noticed me watching her and told me that she is jealous of me because I can breastfeed. She had had a breast reduction when she was 17, and she can nurse and pump all day, but only about a half an ounce will come out the whole day. At least she doesn't have to pay for the formula. She gets samples from a pediatrician friend of hers. The worst part was that she did not pick up her baby to feed him. She propped up the bottle with blankets in his stroller and left him like that. We were there over an hour, and he was in the stroller the whole time.
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#2 of 26 Old 03-07-2004, 09:57 PM
 
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I just am sad to hear that!

My two good friends had children at the same time about 4 years ago and we were looking through photo albums today and came across photos from a bbq where one was breastfeeding and one was bottlefeeding and the difference in the two is remarkable. Granted there was circumstances that were different in both situations but how the mothers actually looked while feeding their children was shocking. One was tired and sad and had a distant look on her face and the other was bright eyed and had a look of pleasant happiness about her. It was an odd moment of reflection.
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#3 of 26 Old 03-07-2004, 10:29 PM
 
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The not picking up to feed is the really sad bit.
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#4 of 26 Old 03-07-2004, 10:34 PM
 
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Originally posted by Irishmommy
The not picking up to feed is the really sad bit.
I totally agree, the disconnection is evident and that is sooo sad for both the mom and the child. That is what I saw in my friends as well.
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#5 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 12:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irishmommy
The not picking up to feed is the really sad bit.
Yes, that's the worst part. If you bottlefeed that's up to you but please hold your baby.:bf

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#6 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 04:55 AM
 
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That is so sad

My daughter is very alert and very interested in everything around her while she's awake and subsequently doesn't spend much time making eye contact with me.

I cherish our nursing sessions because those are the few moments that she will stare into my eyes... I love it!! And she does the same thing when I've had to supplement with a bottle. I can't imagine leaving her with a bottle propped up. How sad.... what must be going through that poor babies mind???

Okay, I have to go hug my baby now!!

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#7 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 10:08 AM
 
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Your story reminded me of the other day. DH and I were in a grocery store and there was a baby crying, really loudly. Having had a collicky son I didn't think much of it, until we got to the check out... the baby was around 2 weeks old at the oldest, definatelly a newborn. There were three adults there I'm guessing mom, dad and maybe an aunt and this baby was still in the car seat while one woman stayed inline unlouding groceries and the other two ran to parts of the store to add things. DH and I both were disgusted at how this baby was completely ignored. Than when we got out to the car the other two adults sat in the car while one louded the trunk, with the baby still on the cart while it was cold, than finally they put the carseat in the car give the baby a bottle without ever picking her up. I was furious!!
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#8 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 11:58 AM
 
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I bottle fed my oldest and I remember one day when an older neighbor lady said my baby was "lazy" because he wasn't holding his own bottle. Silly me, I (or dad) held his bottle for every feeding...silly me, I thought all those cuddles were nice...

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#9 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 01:53 PM
 
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poor baby. i feel a little bad for mom too, but come on, you can still "bottle-nurse" at least......

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#10 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 02:32 PM
 
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It's very sad, b/c you can still use an ABS & have a nursing relationship. Any mm is better than none. I wonder if she got (or looked for) any decent advice on BFAR'ing...
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#11 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 02:35 PM
 
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LLL has a book about BF after reduction. I am getting it for my sister who is due in August and desperately wants to nurse.
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#12 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 04:13 PM
 
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I am breastfeeding after reduction surgery and I use an ABS so it is possible (I've been doing it for 16 months now! ). But I did bottlefeed my son because I didn't know I could bf and I bottle-nursed (I coined that phrase a long time ago). He was held for every single feeding and will be self-weaning. At 3 he is still snuggled with a bottle at nap and bedtime. There is no excuse for that kind of neglect.

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#13 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 04:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Heavenly
(I've been doing it for 16 months now! ).
Ooh, you beat me! I've been BFAR'ing for just under a year. Never used an ABS, though--supp'ed w/ bottles as needed and got lucky that dd never developed nipple preference. SO happy it's worked...

Oh, hey--I know you from the BFAR list, don't I! (I haven't posted there in a while, so wouldn't be surprised if you don't recognize me--Erika). Small world...
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#14 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 04:36 PM
 
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Duh! I was reading it as BARF. No wonder it made no sense. :
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#15 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 06:09 PM
 
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Gosh, if she's so jealous, why isn't she holding her baby?? : My first dd was bottle fed. But I (or dh) *always* held her to feed her. I wonder sometimes if the fact that so many parents prop the bottle accounts for part of the IQ difference between ff and bf babies. So much brain development happens from the tactile sensation of being close and the eye contact. DH and I made it a priority to hold dd as much as possible, *especially because* she was loosing out on the nutritional beneifts of bf. We didn't want her loosing out on the bonding part too. Later, if she got down on her own, the bottle stayed with us. I think the first time she held her own bottle without being held by a person was well into the second half of the first year when she was really hungry while we were in the car. I handed her the bottle in the car seat. I guess that's *one* advantage of bottles! :LOL Over all, though, I agree with the OP's observation -- bottle feeding is completely inconvenient most of the time. There are a few exeptions, but for parents who don't believe in being away from the baby much anyway, they are few and far between.

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#16 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 07:48 PM
 
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Most I know bottle feed, but few years ago I began askign them to do one thingas it makes it "easier to ween off the bottle" (sorry but I had to make it appealling!!) I said "Hold the baby at every feeding-never prop the bottle" I explained it isenjoyable andeasier to transfer from a bottle to a cup as they only relatethe bottle to being cuddle and fed-like nursing. Thi appealed tomany but was soforeign...sad.

I never bottlefed but saw it work-just think about it, if they never hold a dang bottle, just a cup-no bottle attachment!! Justparent attachment!!
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#17 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 07:56 PM
 
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very sad! i wish they would make some kind of rule about women who are so young and haven't thought about how breast reductions could ruin their chances of breastfeeding. i know many women can do it, but some can't or don't try very hard. they should really know what the consequences are before they get the surgery. and that should be the health professional's job.

it must be hard to formula-feed! so many times in the middle of the night, i've thought how lucky i am that i dont' have to listen to a screaming baby while i go and make a bottle...yikes. but despite her knowing what she is missing...why is she propping bottles?! if i had tried to nurse but couldn't...i would at least want to give my baby lots of contact during feeding. bottlefeeding can just make it way to easy to detach from your baby.

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#18 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 08:00 PM
 
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Gosh, if she's so jealous, why isn't she holding her baby??
I witnessed this in my own sister. She bfed her baby until he was 8 weeks and she was getting ready to go back to work. The disconnection was almost immediate. She was once so nurturing with her ds, but once she stopped bfing she was distant. I don't know if it was the loss of the mothering hormones in her milk or the idea that she was going to be without him during much of the day anyway b/c she would be at work.

It was almost as if a switch went off. It was very sad to see and made me cherish every moment with my baby at my breast.

Some moms just don't know what they're really missing out on. Many will never know that they missed out on anything at all (like my other sister who bottle-fed from the start and never thought twice about it.)
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#19 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 08:55 PM
 
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Originally posted by luv my 2 sweeties
I guess that's *one* advantage of bottles! :LOL

or as long as your not driving, you just lean over the car seat and nurse, llol ( i do it allll the time).

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#20 of 26 Old 03-08-2004, 10:25 PM
 
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There's a reason I'm not friends with formula-feeding moms like that. I could never keep my mouth shut with someone who neglects their child like that, and have been known to say something to complete strangers out in public about it, too. How sad for that baby.
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#21 of 26 Old 03-09-2004, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by rareimer
i wish they would make some kind of rule about women who are so young and haven't thought about how breast reductions could ruin their chances of breastfeeding. i know many women can do it, but some can't or don't try very hard. they should really know what the consequences are before they get the surgery. and that should be the health professional's job.
Well, they do tell you that there could be problems. But speaking from personal experience--I was 25, hated my body, didn't have a boyfriend at the time, let alone think about babies. Whether I'd be able to breastfeed was the last thing on my mind--I just wanted to wear a halfway sexy bra! That reduction gave me self confidence that I'd never had before. Sad but true.

There are many ways a woman w/ a reduction can still have a nursing relationship with her child, and IMHO the medical establishment & other childbirth providers need to be educated on that (as on other bf'ing issues). My OB told me that women w/ reductions have a 30% success rate at BF'ng--whether that's 30% of all women w/ reductions who have birth, or 30% of those who try to BFAR, I don't know. Luckily, I was determined to at least *try.* I had good support, and it worked.

What makes me sad is the women who are convinced it just won't work, and so don't even try. Or the women who get such bad advice at the hospital (or wherever) that they just give up.

So anyway, it'd be nice if plastic surgeons really emphasized the bf'ing problems, but most women wouldn't pay attention anyway. A culture of support & good information around the birthing mother would be even better.

Jumping off the now...
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#22 of 26 Old 03-10-2004, 03:30 PM
 
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Originally posted by rareimer
very sad! i wish they would make some kind of rule about women who are so young and haven't thought about how breast reductions could ruin their chances of breastfeeding.
Some women do think about it. I've wanted a breast reduction for nearly ten years now, but I held off even looking into it because I knew that I wanted to have children and nurse them, and that breastfeeding my babies was more important to me than wearing clothing that fit me. That, and I learned that when you get pregnant your breasts get bigger even if you've had a reduction, and that it's most effective to have the surgery after you're finished having children for that reason.

I told my husband long before we had Eli that I had always planned to find a way to have a breast reduction when I'm finished having children and nursing them. I try to keep focused on it when I'm depressed that I only have one bra that fits me. It's hard, it's a (literal!) pain in the neck, but I know that my day will come!

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#23 of 26 Old 03-10-2004, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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there was a part of the story that i forgot. there was a 4th visitor w/her dd that day, and after the woman said all that jealousy stuff, she started bragging that HER dd used isomil, too, and had "graduated" to a sippy by 8 months. imo, a sippy is just the same as a bottle. i started giving water in cups to dd1 around 1 year. dd2, 5 mos., mooches water (in a cup) off me every time i take a drink while i am holding her.

do you think i should have said some thing to her about picking up her son? do you think i should say something when i see her again?

my grandmother kept pushing me to get a reduction (she had one and loved it), but i did not do it because i knew i would breastfeed. i was a dd back then, and now with breastfeeding, i'm an h. when i'm totally done w/kids &bf, i'm doing it.
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#24 of 26 Old 03-10-2004, 05:23 PM
 
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Sippy cups are kind of like pull-ups to me. I understand why people think that they're a stepping stone between babyhood and childhood, but they tend to have the opposite effect if you're not making an effort to prevent it.

Eli does have sippy cups. He only got to use them after I was satisfied that he could drink from a regular cup on his own (7 or 8 months). He likes to be independant, and I like not to have floors covered in water or juice. When we're all sitting together, or he's sitting on my lap, I tend to give him a regular cup for his water. He is currently taking a bottle for naps & bedtime, but once my milk comes back full force he won't need it anymore.

Yes, I think you should *definately* encourage her to pick the baby up. My mother, who is not a crunchy person or terribly into AP philosophy has been known to cringe and make loud comments when people prop bottles. She bottle fed, but she always held the baby she was feeding.

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#25 of 26 Old 03-10-2004, 07:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by julie128
when i'm totally done w/kids &bf, i'm doing it.
ditoo.


i think it would only do any good if she mentions being jealous again.., otherwise she might feel you are being nit-picky... but you know what? it might do her some good to at least hear that propping can be dangerous... maybe offer to help hold the baby so she can think about it? i dunno...

l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#26 of 26 Old 03-11-2004, 02:03 PM
 
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I bottle-fed (formula) my first, who is now 13 months. I did want to nurse so bad, and tried hard, but never really got her to latch and ended up pumping for a couple weeks before I broke down. Long story . . . but anyway . . .

I now have a 2 month old who is completely breastfed. Although I never ever propped a bottle with my first, I can see how that may happen with formula feeding. There was a HUGE difference for me in terms of attachment feelings! With my first I was so depressed, and angry, and didn't feel anything for my baby for a couple months I struggled with it, held her close a lot, and now she is the light of my life. But with the new baby, I feel totally attached and full of love, right from the start

I attribute it to hormones I think - and feeling that profound difference I get sad at the though of ever having another child that is not nursing!! Makes me even sadder to see a baby with a propped bottle, sad for the mother too know she may feel so disconnected like I did

Oh and about the formula feeding - big huge pain in the butt for me!! I hated it, and to this day I have issues unresolved about the fact that I didn't succeed with breastfeeding, but I guess that is another story.
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