One Area WIC can improve in Breastfeeding support - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 19 Old 06-09-2010, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I thought we had excellent support through our local WIC program for nursing Mothers. I just found the one catch 22/loophole in this...

My son has recently gotten sick, he is 3 1/2 weeks old...we are on WIC, or rather were, until with all the issues we were having with him, accidentally missed our WIC afterbirth recert...we called a few days after realizing it, and now have to wait 6 weeks before their first available appointment.

In the mean time, I am now needing a pump as DS3 is very badly congested and puking up his feedings..is loosing some weight...only partially wetting 2 diapers in about 24-30 hours and there is a lot of brick dust urine in it....

I just want to rent/barrow an electric pump, as generally I am ok with my Avent Isis (but right now, due to nipple pain that is resolving, using the Avent is painful because I rub very much of my nipple on the sides when I pump, but the Medela I have a bit more room in)...to get through this and pump food for him...and keep my supply (pump and give in smaller amounts so the congestion does not cause him to puke as much).

Here is my loophole..i have a kit already for the lactina (friend had one we barrowed for my older 3 children, but her daughter has it/needs it now). There is only 2 places I know locally that rent them....WIC and an LC. The LC is not able to rent to WIC participants (therefore we are excluded, because we are set up for an appointment and only have to do the recert), and we cannot rent from WIC until we get recertified. The first available appointment they had was not until June 30th.

So, I am kicking myself.

I can probably get the prescription and letter of need from my Ped, but then the only option is to purchase a double electric through the insurance, which I don't need...I just wanted one to get us through this, so I can keep my supply up and also have just give him smaller amounts more frequently when he projectile vomits/spits all over me. I am just trying to prevent him from getting dehydrated, or even more dehydrated than he already is so we don't end up in the hospital.

*bang my head on wall*
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#2 of 19 Old 06-09-2010, 02:41 PM
 
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Are you sure that you can't get a pump from WIC? In my area we would always lend out pumps if the person had an appt. to recertify, even if they weren't currently certified. (I am a former WIC Nutritionist).

Call and talk to the Nutritionist Supervisor, they are the ones that can bend the rules if need be.

Good luck!

Wife to dh, Mommy to ds1 12/2002, ds2 9/2005, and ds3 9/2008.
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#3 of 19 Old 06-09-2010, 02:50 PM
 
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I would call again and ask to speak to the Breastfeeding Manager or at least bf staff. Because of our committment to bf moms, we often will do whatever we can to get bf moms the services they need.

Miriam
Mom to two daughters born in 1997 and 2000
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#4 of 19 Old 06-09-2010, 02:55 PM
 
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I would ask your dr to immediately write out a Rx for it with a diagnosis on it and then call back the WIC office and ask to speak to someone in the bf clinic or supervisor and explain the situation. That you have a rx for the pump but unable to get one due to the recert. appt and see where it goes from there. Hopefully they can work something out.
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#5 of 19 Old 06-09-2010, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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One of the LC's with our main WIC office is the one who told me already...I can rent from them after the recert on the 30th....

Like I said, one thing our area needs to work on...

We will see what happens...if we cannot get things worked out, I wont have a choice but to switch to formula...one of the Peds has already been pressuring because he took 3 weeks to get back to birth weight because he lost a lot (but then he would with being 11 lbs 1 oz at birth and losing the normal 7-10%).
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#6 of 19 Old 06-09-2010, 03:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tanyam926 View Post
Are you sure that you can't get a pump from WIC? In my area we would always lend out pumps if the person had an appt. to recertify, even if they weren't currently certified. (I am a former WIC Nutritionist).

Call and talk to the Nutritionist Supervisor, they are the ones that can bend the rules if need be.

Good luck!
I see you talked with the LC but I second talking to the Nutritionist Supervisor. It can't hurt and I think you may get better results. Your baby needs that pump! Good Luck to you and your sweet babe.
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#7 of 19 Old 06-09-2010, 09:33 PM
 
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I agree with everyone else. There's got to be something that can be done to help you.

I wanted to ask though. Your still nursing constantly right? even if he is throwing up, if he's feeding more it should help your supply and also help prevent dehydration.

DD#2 was super sick like your DC at about 2 months and I wos so scared about loosing my supply and her getting dehydrated too. The LC and my doctor encouraged me to nurse constantly so the that I was still producing and she was still getting milk and avoiding dehydration untill I could get a pump.

There is no WIC here so no where to rent a pump except the hospital and thats $80 a week. I scraped what I could to get a cheap pump a week later.

I hope he gets better quickly for you and you get the pump.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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#8 of 19 Old 06-10-2010, 12:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by KimberlyD0 View Post
I agree with everyone else. There's got to be something that can be done to help you.

I wanted to ask though. Your still nursing constantly right? even if he is throwing up, if he's feeding more it should help your supply and also help prevent dehydration.
I am nursing as often as he will take it...which is about every 3-4 hours. I do try more frequently, but he often just mouths it and then falls back asleep.

He started doing the projective vomiting again tonight. He did it while I was eating dinner about 4:45 so we could take DS1 to karate, and then again while we were at Karate (and I have a ton of witnesses who can say how bad it really was - looked like the exorcists..)....

And both times were filled with small bits and pieces of mucus.

But, when we got home after karate, about 45 mins after he vomited, I was able to nurse him again (he was screaming to be fed), and he has kept that feeding down, but no clue if he really got anything as his nursing was very frantic and very painful. He was chomping down from the minute the nipple came into his mouth - which is what we are retraining and working on from the 3 weeks of tongue tie...so I was in a lot of pain, and not sure if I actually let down much or at all.

We did call the Ped back...after the projectile started, and basically told either go to the ER or try pedialyte. I have already read that it is not wise to do pedialyte, but we will see what happens. Still on the same diaper we put on him at 8 am....

I have a pump right now. A friend of mine found her, but is not sure if it works any longer as it is 9 years old (*LOL*). So, I will be trying that in a few - need to wipe down the connector and see if my tubing fits it or if I need to go get new tubing.
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#9 of 19 Old 06-10-2010, 03:12 PM
 
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DD got pedialyte when she had the flu and when she had rota. Both while hospitalized It was that or an IV. This had been because she had been sick with one thing or another for nearly 2 months though. Saddly she did end up with an IV

I'm not saying that to scare you I promise, but pedialyte does have its place in the case of true dehydration. We have the pedialyte freezy pops here because I have found the coolness seems to help, and because its froozed they can't be eated to fast. The main function of pedialyte is to ensure proper electolight levels, that can't be found with water and when they're babies juices and sports drinks are deffinitly not a good idea.

This is what her pediatrition told me after we had already had her be dehydrated and I was paranoid it would happen again.

Nurse nurse nurse as much as they want to. Watch your child. As long as they have tears, springing skin, runny nose, and peeing then they're not dehydrated. If he has these signs then take him to the ER

Deffinitly stick with the BM and if he starts to show signs of dehydration take them to the ER. If its mild to moderate they'll administer pedialyte in small dooses, and if its sevear then its an IV (last resort)

Him eating small amounts is better for his tummy, when they're sick if they eat too much too fast (at any age) then they tend to throw up more. Do you think you could encourage more frequent smaller feeds?? so his tummy isn't as irritated.

Once he's feeling better and returns to regular feeds your milk will once again regulate. The body is an amazing thing.


Also I ment to ask, is he sick with a fever or anything? or do you think this might be a reflux or allergy issue? Not sure what other symptoms he's having.
Hold in there mamma you'll both get through this.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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#10 of 19 Old 06-10-2010, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This all started Monday and he is very congested and it is all back end nasal/sinus congestion (meaning the area that drains down your throat from the sinus not where it drains out your nose).

No fever. Blood Sugar levels at the ER were great, and so was his BMP (Basic Metabolic Panel). We took him to the ER Tuesday night because he had no wet diapers in 8 hours. Said he was not dehydrated even though not peeing.

At this point in time everything is moot. He has offically, because of this, been labelled Failure to Thrive as of today by our Pediatricians. I can breastfeed as long as I can show proof that he is getting 2 oz every 3 hours. Everything, per the Ped, that is wrong with him, is because I do not have enough milk. (Which I have plenty of people who can attest that is not so -- because when he pukes, it is huge, it not this little thing, it is like a water fountain.)

If I cannot prove he is getting the 2 oz of breastmilk, I have to give him formula.

I have called the WIC LC's and told them no need to follow up any longer that I am giving up breast feeding...and I called the WIC office I go to to cancel my appointment, so they can put another Mother/Child into my slot who needs assistance, and told them that I have been put into a situation where I have to give up nursing. The WIC office was like "Ok, and your name was again, and your child's name again was?. Ok, we will cancel the appointment for you."

The LC suggested we do before/after feeding weights and they could lend a scale possibly, until I reminded her that I wont have benefits again till at least 6/30 if not 7/1, depending upon if they will issue coupons for June on the last day or not, or will just start the next day...so, again, they cannot lend us a scale.

And, now we also have to go through an Upper GI on Friday morning for him because of this, to prove to me that it is my supply and nothing wrong with him...

I keep telling them, he is so friggen congested he can barely breath at times, that what he pukes up is just filled with mucus from the congestion - as in my clothes are streaked from it....
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#11 of 19 Old 06-11-2010, 12:52 AM
 
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you don't have to do anything you don't want to.

If you feel supplimenting is needed I would suggest a cup, finger feeding, or even SNS.

Also when they throw up it'll look like more coming up then there actually is.

With him not having any other symptoms my first thought would be either Reflux, or Allergy. Have you tried an elimination diet at all? keeping in mind that it can take at least 2 weeks to get a food out of your system compleatly. Most likly if its an allegy it's probably milk.

Both my girls had reflux. My first I FF due to many many issues stacked against me. She was like yours in the first few weeks. She was also FtT and that was even after she was FF and they knew how much she was taking. She would often projectile vomit and it looked like her entire feeds, but really when they do that, because there is so much mucus, there isn't as much milk as you think. If you want an idea dump an oz of water on something and see how much more it looks like. LOL you might be suprised. She was started on reflux meds and was able to start keeping down her feeds.
DD#2 was so bad that she was also having trouble keeping down food and she was BF (minus 3 days of FF due to some issues I had) with her though I knew what it was right away. I was able to get her medication and she stopped over night. Once she was feeling better (cause reflux does hurt) she would eat more often, she went from 3-4 hours to 1.5-2 like she should have been.

If you are concerned about your supply then pumping can help (and you can use that to suppliment instead for formula ) You can also try herbs like Fenugreek or blessed thistle, and there is also Domperidone (thats what did it for me) When you do pump, feed first then pump and it'll encourage your breasts to make more milk. (supply and demand)

Don't give up on youself. Its extreamly rare for a mother to not make enough milk. I would even say call the WIC LC back and reschedual. They will be able to help you out so much. Find a support group near you of other nursing mothers. You DC is still very young and there are other things that you can have checked first. I would hate for you to give up and then find out it was something you could change and that you can BF after all. There are so many things you can do before you give up. Is your pediatrition BF friendly?? if not then you should either find another one or find someone who is so you can have the support you need.

Is there any BF support groups there for you at all??

Oh and don't let anyone tellyou if you pump and you don't get much milk you don't have enough. A pump is no where near as effective as your baby. Most moms can't pump very much.

Kimberly : momma to Karrigan Kayla : and wife of Kevin
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#12 of 19 Old 06-11-2010, 04:55 AM
 
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Do you need a pump? Even a non-hospital grade one? I can send you a double mipump to help you out.
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#13 of 19 Old 06-11-2010, 12:36 PM
 
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I would go above the head of the last WIC person you talked to even if you have to go to the state level, though I would try getting "permission" from WIC to rent a pump from the LC first. I'd also ask for a copy of the written policy; often "policy" is whatever the worker decides it is and is not in writing.

http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/contacts/statealpha.htm

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#14 of 19 Old 06-15-2010, 02:22 PM
 
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Have you called around and looked for a pediatrician or family doctor who is more breastfeeding-friendly?

This site has good clips and articles about many breastfeeding issues:

http://www.drjacknewman.com/

You can also call them with questions.

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#15 of 19 Old 06-16-2010, 10:39 AM
 
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1. New pediatrician.

2. Go up the ladder at WIC. I've worked with WIC on breastfeeding task forces and agree with the suggestion to get in touch with the nutritionis supervisor. supervisor may be at a different office (sometimes they cover a broader region than each office does.)
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#16 of 19 Old 06-17-2010, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Updating with Good and Bad news...

I called my WIC office to cancel my appt and switch Ds3 to formula. I had to speak with either the nutritionist or peer breast feeding person and explain why. When I did, they told me to call around and see if any of the other clinics in the area could get me in ASAP. If they could, they would fast track my file to the other office.

We did get an appt. established for this past Monday, but had to cancel it, because we were in the Hospital with DS3.

On Saturday, after 2 more days of the same thing..nurse, projectile vomit one or more times, clean myself up, do a load of laundry of towels, clothes, blankets...clean up whatever else got hit with the projectile vomit..

I called the Peds office, or rather DH did to get him in again, this was Saturday. I told him we were only going back there if we got an extremely experienced Ped (like the one we normally see all the time)....and one who will not prejudge the problem before listening to us.

We went in, and she immediately sent us to the ER after talking with us. And she called down in advance to let them know we were coming to fast track us in.

He was diagnosed with Pyloric Stenosis and had surgery on Sunday to fix it. I argued with the Surgeon about beginning nursing shortly after the surgery, even if it was 1-2 minute feeds (so he got small amounts). But he would not budge...nothing till at least 12 hours (we ended up with 17 hours because they were "short staffed") after surgery...then a whole day of stagged/scheduled/determined amounts by bottle (got him to compromise and do syringe feeds rather than bottle)....

So, my next project will be to get this Pediatric surgeon to change his policy on breastfed babies after this type of surgery, as the literature out there is backing up my position...

We were w/o nursing from Saturday till 10 am Tuesday morning...I did pump, with a hospital pump supplied for my use (and they brought me supplies and everything, since mine were all at home when we were admitted)...at no charge. I was even provided a parent tray free of charge all day long -- be it meals or snacks...and got to order whatever I wanted...and the nurses and PCA's all made sure I had plenty to drink (water, juice, milk, etc) from the unit fridge - keep snacks and stuff in it for patients...

We are home now, and other than getting him to latch initially (took 20 mins on the first feed) he is feeding like a champ...I know I lost some of my supply, but at nursing on demand as often and long as he wants now...

I do have the RX from my Peds, that we got on Thursday afternoon, for the pump and am wondering if I should go get it...or at least try to go get it...it is for an electric pump specifically written on it...
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#17 of 19 Old 06-17-2010, 09:58 AM
 
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WOW!

Scary!

But overall good news... wonderful to have answers. And some resolution. And support.

Good luck!
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#18 of 19 Old 06-17-2010, 07:44 PM
 
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I'm glad to hear that they got the issue figured out and that he's able to nurse now. Nurse, nurse, nurse. As often as he is willing. The more you nurse him, the faster your supply will get to where it needs to be.

Midwife (CPM, LDM) and homeschooling mama to:
13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#19 of 19 Old 02-26-2014, 08:39 AM
 
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On behalf of WIC I am so sorry this happened to you. I am the bfing counselor at WIC in Ohio and I would never have allowed this to happen to one of my moms. God bless

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