Dr Lisa Masterson gives bad advice again! - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I never ever watch "The Doctors" but I was flipping through and I saw a beautiful woman having contractions so I stopped to watch. It turned out to be the producers wife. After the footage she came on the show with the baby and said that she had some pain while breastfeeding and asked Dr Masterson for some advice. Well Dr's response was " It's normal, just stick it out, your nipples will toughen up, they will become callous and it will get better"

WTF????????????????????????????????????

I cannot find any video on it to show you all. did anyone else see it? How is this show allowed to go on with such poor advice?
I am thinking about writing the show to let them know what the correct answer should have been. Or maybe make some prominent breastfeeding groups aware of her false medical advice. Any suggestions on how to put the pressure on the show to get them to stop being so mis informative????

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#2 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 03:17 PM
 
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I actually think this is good advice. I think many, many women experience nipple pain at first that pretty much goes away once their nipples toughen up. Certainly my experience. I guess she could have added something about making sure latch is good and there is not a tongue-tied issue...
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#3 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 03:30 PM
 
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That was my thought as well... Sticking it out worked for me....

But she definitely should've added something about consulting a LC to ensure baby had a proper latch etc.

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#4 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I have never heard before this show and this thread that it is normal for breastfeeding to be painful.

Is it painful sometimes?? I am sure for some it is, but normal?

I nursed a child for 3 years and never experienced any pain, though we had latch issues the first week and I had some discomfort with engorgement. My nipples also never became tough, they were just my nipples. I never asked other women about the condition of their nipples so maybe for some women they do callous, but that is news to me.

The only time before today that I ever heard a woman say it was painful was because there was a problem, (mastitis, thrush)

I believe that after 1 month of nursing, the good Dr should have said something like
"lets get you to an LC or some other breastfeeding specialist so we can rule out any problems"

Not " pain during breastfeeding is normal, tough it out"

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#5 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 04:50 PM
 
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Yes, it can absolutely be normal. I've actually often thought we do women a grave diservice when we don't tell them breastfeeding can be painful in the first few weeks, because then they freak out and assume something is terribly wrong. When you have a little person sucking on a part of your body 24/7, you can experience some discomfort as your body gets used to things.

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#6 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 04:57 PM
 
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While some pain while adjusting can be normal - women don't form callouses on their nipples, do they? (ew.) With my second, nursing was painful, in spite of a beautiful-looking latch. Happily, I knew it didn't have to be that way - went to a cranio-sacral therapist, and everything felt all better!

"Pain is normal while breastfeeding" is not the complete picture.
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#7 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 04:58 PM
 
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Yeah, the callous part was weird. But you do kind of "toughen up" and get used to things.

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#8 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree that it can be uncomfortable - but painful???

really this is the first time I have ever heard women say that breastfeeding is painful.

Yes I found that I had some discomfort. I had discomfort when I was pregnant, I had discomfort nursing, I had discomfort carrying my baby everywhere I went. Yes I agree that women need to know the challenges that lay ahead of them and that it is not always easy. and no one should sugar coat it or pretend that it is something it is not or that the love makes it all better just like that.

I am a doula and also working on my CBE certification so this could be an education for me. Up til now I tell women that breastfeeding doesn't hurt and if it does please find a qualified LC

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#9 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:05 PM
 
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Yes, it can be (not will be, but can be) painful, even if you're doing everything right.

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#10 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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While some pain while adjusting can be normal - women don't form callouses on their nipples, do they? (ew.) With my second, nursing was painful, in spite of a beautiful-looking latch. Happily, I knew it didn't have to be that way - went to a cranio-sacral therapist, and everything felt all better!

"Pain is normal while breastfeeding" is not the complete picture.

so the baby got cranial sacral therapy???

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#11 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:12 PM
 
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+1 on the idea that breastfeeding can be painful. i agree it's really important to seek help if there IS pain, but i also firmly believe that there can be pain and nothing wrong (or nothing fixable). that is what i experienced. i had a preemie, and thrush, but once the thrush was fixed, and i'd finally gotten her to latch on, we just needed to wait out the discomfort... i have sensitive nipples anyway, and having a premature baby who needed to "grow" into her latch, as it were, things were pretty yucky for a fairly long while. if i'd believed what they said about breastfeeding being painless, i would have been SO frustrated with the whole process.

i agree that she probably should have at least mentioned going to an LC to rule out any causes of the pain.
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#12 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:13 PM
 
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It was toe curling, teeth clenchingly painful for me when breastfeeding DD1!
I wish I had known that it could be, I felt like a complete failure at breastfeeding until we finally got it together after 8 long weeks. Inverted nipples and engorgement combined with a sleepy 6 pound baby led to bleeding and pain that was so bad I wanted to use that stupid can of formula that I got in the mail!
I'm so glad DD2 was a snap!

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#13 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:18 PM
 
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Same here. Toe-curling, teeth-clenching pain for 4 weeks. Multiple checks of latch by 3 different LCs. Latch fine. Pain lessened over weeks 5 and 6 and was totally gone by week 7 or 8.

I really do think it is inappropriate when lactivists mouth this line about how there shouldn't be pain unless something is wrong. Of course latch etc. should be checked but it can really drive you crazy to be repeatedly told that 'pain means a bad latch' and simultaneously that 'your latch is just fine.'

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#14 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:18 PM
 
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Well I STILL have pain on & off (though nowhere near as bad as the beginning) and my DS is 17mos old... I attribute my pain to the frequency of his nursing... When he is sucking literally around the clock (several times an hour, still, even at this age), it doesn't matter how good his latch is (and admittedly, it's not always good), it HURTS. For me it's like... hmm like you could hold an ice cube for a second and it's just uncomfortable but after a minute or two it's painful.

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#15 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:19 PM
 
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I did have some pain when I first started nursing ds. He wanted to eat every hour and it felt like I didnt get time to recoup before each feeding and they were almost irritated. I know he had a good latch and would pop him off and relatch if I thought it wasnt ok. A friend of mine said hers hurt for the first 6 weeks until she got used to it.
But I have a friend that has been using one of the silicon nipple shields they give you in the hospital since her LO was born in may and says that her nipples hurt every time. She even pumps now, not sure how often but I've seen multiple people give that baby a bottle by now. She actually told me she has nipples too sensitive to be touched even prebaby. I dont think shes doing it wrong, just pain registers different to different people.
Dont think thats bad advice, but yea, she should have mentioned an LC for the viewers if not for the woman herself. Im not a huge fan of that show, so gimmicky. I do like the Sears family though.

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#16 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:25 PM
 
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#17 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Learning all of the time!

Good information

I still stick with that the show should have mentioned getting support to rule out any thing that might have been causing her pain but have changed my stance on breastfeeding doesn't hurt.
It didn't hurt me but obviously from your responses it can and does for some.

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#18 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 06:11 PM
 
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I agree that it can be uncomfortable - but painful???

really this is the first time I have ever heard women say that breastfeeding is painful.

Yeah, I have a pretty high pain tolerance and for about 2 week nursing hurt like %$&#. Her latch was fine, but I still got scabs on both nipples. No visible wounds, just a few pinprick sized areas where blood was drawn that scabbed. A little expressed milk allowed to dry on the scabs, then lanolin and they healed up fine and it's been smooth sailing since.

It hurt pretty badly for a few seconds right after she latched, then dulled down into an ache while she nursed.

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#19 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 06:16 PM
 
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Well I STILL have pain on & off (though nowhere near as bad as the beginning) and my DS is 17mos old... I attribute my pain to the frequency of his nursing... When he is sucking literally around the clock (several times an hour, still, even at this age), it doesn't matter how good his latch is (and admittedly, it's not always good), it HURTS. For me it's like... hmm like you could hold an ice cube for a second and it's just uncomfortable but after a minute or two it's painful.
I have to chime in with my experience. #1 very painful. Bleeding nipples, toe-curling. Lasted 6 weeks. Nothing wrong, just nipples that hadn't been "used" before. #2, born right after #1 weaned. Everything went great. No pain ever. Ten long years later, #3 caused a bit of toe-curling pain, a bit of bleeding, but it was all good after about 2 weeks. But she is 13 months, and sometimes she causes me pain if she nurses around the clock. Not toe-curling, but kind of like my nipples are worn OUT kind of pain.

I agree that we do a disservice to paint a rosy picture, because then when it doesn't run out that way, women think there is something wrong and decide they "weren't able" to breastfeed.
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#20 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 06:21 PM
 
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Well, I think the best answer is: "Hmm, let's check your latch. Position looks good, latch looks good. Swallows per suck seems good. This seems like normal adjustment - many women do report some discomfort or pain while establishing breastfeeding, but it typically resolves within 2 weeks. Some women like to use Lansinoh on their nipples, though not everyone likes it - would you like to try some?"

Not just dismissive "it's normal."

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#21 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 06:46 PM
 
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I actually think this is good advice. I think many, many women experience nipple pain at first that pretty much goes away once their nipples toughen up. Certainly my experience. I guess she could have added something about making sure latch is good and there is not a tongue-tied issue...
I agree. I know everyone says pain does not equal normal, but I did all 4 times even without latch issues and so did my mom and most people I know.

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#22 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 06:52 PM
 
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I happen to feel that it would be to moms' benefit in general to let it be known that breastfeeding is not always wonderful and lovely. Yes, sometimes it hurts and is exhausting. That does NOT mean it won't work for you. It is "normal." Yes, some potential problems should be ruled out, but it does not mean that there is necessarily a problem.
And yes, the callous thing is a bit of a harsh exaggeration, but the general idea is sound.
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#23 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 07:05 PM
 
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Well, I think the best answer is: "Hmm, let's check your latch. Position looks good, latch looks good. Swallows per suck seems good. This seems like normal adjustment - many women do report some discomfort or pain while establishing breastfeeding, but it typically resolves within 2 weeks. Some women like to use Lansinoh on their nipples, though not everyone likes it - would you like to try some?"

Not just dismissive "it's normal."
especially the lansinoh. who knew a little lanolin could be so comforting! mine was never 'pain', just 'discomfort', but it still sucked (pun intended ) for about 10 days.
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#24 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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she did suggest that mom could use creams and such.

BUt again I have to come back to that I wish she would have encouraged her to get things checked out.

What if I as a future child birth educator, I prepare the women I will be working with that there is a possibility of pain. If I just make it seem normal, then there could be a problem and then mom won't go for help because she was told that breastfeeding hurts and it is normal.

I guess it is all in the wording, maybe something like pain COULD indicate that there is a problem so seek specialized help to rule all else out. Again, I would have to go back to pain is not normal or all pain is not normal.


not feeling as annoyed by her since hearing about your experiences. I really had no idea.

I wonder if part of it is my breastfeeding friends not wanting to share if they had painful experiences either because they didn't feel normal or because they are afraid to turn other moms off from breastfeeding, going back to how we are doing a dis service by not telling the truth.

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#25 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 09:50 PM
 
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Bfing first kid was hard, for 6 weeks or so. And I worked on the latch, but it still was uncomfortable for a while, especialyy at the latch-on (deep breathing!). then it got better.

There was a 1 yr break between nursing ds1 (nursed for 2.5+ years) before I got pg with #2. When ds2 was born, he nursed like a champ and I was a stickler with his latch, and 3 days old felt about the same as 6 weeks old did with ds1! amazing!

I think its partially a matter of working on the latch and just that the first time is hardest.
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#26 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 10:03 PM
 
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I wonder if part of it is my breastfeeding friends not wanting to share if they had painful experiences either because they didn't feel normal or because they are afraid to turn other moms off from breastfeeding, going back to how we are doing a dis service by not telling the truth.
there is a campaign in nova scotia along those lines: http://www.first6weeks.ca/

see commercials here: http://www.first6weeks.ca/learning/l...#tvcommercials

i agree that pain should be investigated - could be a tongue-tie!

nak
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#27 of 37 Old 07-22-2010, 10:34 PM
 
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Lots of things can cause pain, bad latch, thrush, tongue tie, engorgement, etc. But pain can also just be "normal" and part of the adjustment your body is going through.

Think of it this way...if you were to suck on your own finger for hours upon hours of every day and night suddenly, when that finger has never been sucked on before, it would no doubt get a touch tender, don't you think? Now add in the fact that breast tissue is much more sensitive, less exposed to the elements, and all the hormones of post-partum, and yes, you can have pain.

And that pain can be normal.

I have been breastfeeding for 5 years straight now, with no break between kids, and tandeming for 3 years. Yet I still had pain as my body adjusted to my new infant's mouth, suck, latch, and increase in milk supply.

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#28 of 37 Old 07-23-2010, 01:51 PM
 
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Our first two weeks were absolute hell. I was sure the latch wasn't right, even though every nurse and the IBLC said it looked right to them. It hurt so bad that I was sure it must be wrong because I had always heard it's not supposed to be toe-curling painful. Maybe it was right and it was normal pain, I don't know. She was also so big and heavy it was hard to hold her and get her in a good position.

Then I got bloody and scabby and she started to refuse nursing. A weekend off, using the pump instead, and she was back on. It still hurt but it was workable. It got even better after she started getting chiropractic. After those first two weeks everything was perfectly fine. We've had absolutely no issues since. So I really don't know what's normal or not, still.

I never know what to say either. I want to prepare people who I talk to that it may hurt, but I don't want to scare them off. I know someone who was scared off BFing - she didn't even try because of all the horror stories.

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#29 of 37 Old 07-23-2010, 01:54 PM
 
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I wish the "experts" had told me that when I had my first son. Maybe I would have been more prepared for it, and our BFing relsitionship would have lasted longer.

But no, all the "lactation consultants" kept telling me, 2days after giving birth, that if it hurts, im doing it wrong. Gee, THANKS! Loads of help!
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#30 of 37 Old 07-23-2010, 03:19 PM
 
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Yeah, the callous part was weird. But you do kind of "toughen up" and get used to things.
Yep. I've had four kids and I've definitely experienced some pain during the beginning because I just wasn't used to having someone "suck on me" 24/7.

Latch was fine...
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