Children's Hospital tried to give DD a bottle. :( ** Update post #11 ** - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 37 Old 03-21-2011, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DD is 5 weeks old and I took her in today for a frenulectomy (quick 5 minute procedure but she had to have GA because of her age). After she was done I went to go see her and I set my bags down so I could take her and as I was setting my stuff down I heard the nurse say, "I'm going to give her some glucose water and see how she does and then we'll offer her the breast." yikes2.gif I looked up and was so deer-in-the-headlights. I watched the nurse put the bottle in her mouth (which was open mid-scream) and the second DD felt it she started shaking her head. She knew it wasn't the good stuff and wanted absolutely nothing to do with it! love.gif At that point I snapped to and just said, "I'd rather nurse her," and took her. Not surprisingly, she latched on immediately and happily munched away. eyesroll.gif

 

I'm so, so disappointed. I'm disappointed in them because they were SO great, and they all obviously knew I was nursing yet this still happened. And I'm disappointed in myself for thinking it wouldn't happen and not telling everyone to NOT give her a bottle. 

 

So, the plan of action is to write them a letter and let them know what happened (but be sure to tell them that I loved everything else about the visit so they know I'm not just a complainer) and to explain why it's bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Any tips? What all should I include, who do I address it to, etc.? I also want a response from them (so I KNOW they read it)...how would I basically say that I want a reply without directly saying as much? 

 

.......I hope that last bit made sense. I got 2 1/2 hours of sleep. And I'm still haunted by the image of an Enfamil ready-to-feed bottle of glucose water perched at the opening of my baby's mouth. horrors.gif


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#2 of 37 Old 03-21-2011, 07:25 PM
 
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OMG! WHY would they do that?? You should start off asking why the nurse didn't ask your permission before doing something to your child???? I would be livid!


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#3 of 37 Old 03-21-2011, 07:29 PM
 
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Honestly, it doesn't sound like that big of a deal to me.  Sorry you're upset, but she latched and was happy to nurse, so I wouldn't worry about it (if it had been formula, I would have been mad - but it wasn't).

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#4 of 37 Old 03-22-2011, 05:06 AM
 
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I would be livid. There definitely needs to be some education there! Exclusively breastfed means just that -no sugar water bottles! How sadly ignorant.

 

 Mama, this was not your fault - take that self-disappointment for not expecting this and turn it into anger that they would even consider giving a bottle of sugar water to any baby after a tongue-tie release, or determination to get the situation changed.

 

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#5 of 37 Old 03-22-2011, 08:03 AM
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No need to be vague. Clearly state that you expect a conversation and will be following up in 48 hours if you haven't heard back. 

 

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#6 of 37 Old 03-22-2011, 08:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

Honestly, it doesn't sound like that big of a deal to me.  Sorry you're upset, but she latched and was happy to nurse, so I wouldn't worry about it (if it had been formula, I would have been mad - but it wasn't).


exactly. I really think you're overreacting here. Glad the procedure went well!
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#7 of 37 Old 03-23-2011, 10:46 AM
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Overreacting?  Seriously?  I thought I clicked into the Lactivisim forum!!.  A 5 week old's tummy is as big as her fist, which is tiny, tiny.  Any amount of glucose water (remember, it's just sugar and water..no nutritional value whatsoever) will take up valuable space that could instead be taken by breastmilk.  Plus it's a foreign substance being introduced to a virgin gut, which in and of itself can create issues.  There was no reason whatsoever for that bottle to have been offered, not when mom was standing right there ready to nurse.

 

Contact the ladies at www.firstright.org for help with the letter and who to contact.  Make sure that the letter is to the point and to put the incident with the bottle at the front of the letter so it doesn't get lost or minimized. Include a request at the end, with a contact by date on it, for them to contact you to discuss how this has been dealt with.  I would send copies, via certified mail so it needs to be signed for, to the head nurse, the head of the department and to patient liason or whatever it's called, most hospitals have a person who acts as a go between along with the IBCLC on staff. 

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#8 of 37 Old 03-23-2011, 11:15 AM
 
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It was Dallas Children's wasn't it? I am sorry..they are raving idiots. My MIL is on the board of...I don;t know..directors there or something. She gets sooo angry that we refuse to take our children there. I have a few stories too. But the worst is this lady I met whose baby died there because of a mistake with a feeding tube! There have been a few of kids taken by CPS due to stupidity on their behalf, where they made something in to something it was not. But in our case, we had where our son was there for a sweat test and some stupid woman working there tried to take his blood. I tried to tell her not to, that he was there for a sweat test. She tried to physically remove him from my arms while I fought her and saw her records had a different name on it. I told her but she just declared she was the professional and knew what she was doing. FINALLY, someone came by and told her she was in the wrong room. She just slammed her stuff around and left, never apologizing. That was 16 yrs ago. Then, several years ago, we took our child down there to be admitted for an IV as he had a metabolic problem and needed an IV. But, there was vomit all over the floors in the ER and the bathrooms and they could not get anyone to clean it up! It was disgusting. Then, after spending 12 hrs there, it was the next morning, we were still in the vomited on waiting room, they announced that their acute care was open and we all had to go over there. I stood up and went over to the nurse and said no way, the doctor already evaluated my child, he was supposed to be admitted and they were taking chances with his life by leaving him in the waiting room for all these hours. Then they got him back, but he could have died while waiting. Then, because MIL threw such a hissy that we refused to go to that place, we gave them one more shot a few months ago. Stupidly, I let DH take our 6 yr old there. He does not know how to stand up to these dummies. He told them no residents or interns (based on yet another bad experience there). But, the doctor proceeded to bring in a bunch of students, and had my son drop his pants and expose his penis in a room full of people! Even though it was a while before he got home, he was crying when he got here still from the humiliation. I am still angry at my dh for not standing up to them! Needles to say, we won't go back.

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#9 of 37 Old 03-23-2011, 11:17 AM
 
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Write them a letter, but also follow up with a phone call to administration. But as far as I can tell, they do not care.

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#10 of 37 Old 03-23-2011, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My main issues were the virgin gut thing, the risk of nipple preference/confusion (my son had such severe nipple preference that in the couple months after we had resolved it a single bottle likely would have started it all over again), the fact that they didn't ask and, what I find to be the biggest one, the fact that by offering it first it somehow implies that bottles, glucose water and formula are superior to breastmilk. 

 

Lisa, it was Children's in Plano. I cannot believe you had such terrible experiences! Wow. We took her to the ER at 2 weeks (weird breathing thing, seems totally fine) and they were great with her. And this time everything was wonderful aside from the bottle thing. But, wow. It just goes to show that you can't assume any hospital is going to be good, regardless of reputation or your previous experiences. So frustrating. Did you ever contact them about any of those experiences? 

 

Thank you for all your suggestions. Update below...


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#11 of 37 Old 03-23-2011, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Update

 

Today they called to check up on Allora and asked the usual stuff (appetite, fever, pain, etc.). I did mention the whole incident. I explained that it risks nipple preference/confusion, gives the impression that bottles are superior to the breast, etc., and she said that they like to give clear liquids first, so I told her that breastmilk is considered a clear liquid to which she replied that they do not consider it a liquid. irked.gif I mentioned that I was a breastfeeding educator and just asked that they look into updating their policy and speak to a board certified lactation consultant about the proper guidelines. She said she would make a note of it.

 

So this is what I'm thinking. I'll wait a while for a response (how long do you guys think I should wait?) and if I don't receive a follow up on it, which I probably won't, I'll send a letter. I think the main points I should hit are the nipple confusion/preference, virgin gut, bottles being superior, bm being a clear liquid and the fact that I wasn't even asked but of course state that it shouldn't even be offered, period. Perhaps give references and one solid article if I can find a good one (any suggestions?). I'll definitely be contacting First Right in just a bit here.


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#12 of 37 Old 03-23-2011, 05:18 PM
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Look at the Anaestegiolist's Assoc. website for documentation that they consider breastmilk a clear liquid.  LLL too along with Kellymom.  I would give it until either Friday or Monday to hear from them since you spoke to someone directly.  For a letter I would give up to a week so they have time to punt it to the right person and get things going.

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#13 of 37 Old 03-24-2011, 10:36 AM
 
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You might also mention that they shouldn't be giving her anything without your consent first.

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#14 of 37 Old 03-24-2011, 11:29 AM
 
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Children's in Plano is the Dallas Children's. It is just the Legacy location. 

 

They really do not care. And we go to fundraisers where their "important" people are there. It has been basically, a lost cause. Although, I will say, when it is brought up, that we take our children to Cooks. That has gotten us some dirty looks, but oh well.

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#15 of 37 Old 03-24-2011, 11:30 PM
 
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Breast Milk is a clear liquid?????? Gargh! I wish I had known that at our last hospital stay. Is there some pamphlet I am missing?

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#16 of 37 Old 03-25-2011, 12:06 PM
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Check out the section on Kellymom.com for when baby has surgery.

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#17 of 37 Old 03-25-2011, 01:11 PM
 
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FWIW, I would avoid the term "virgin gut" and stick with the exclusive breastfeeding recommendations from the WHO, AAP etc, as they say explicitly that water should not be given to babies less than 6 months of age. I can see uninformed docs rolling their eyes at "virgin gut" more easily than their own medical association recommendations.

 

And if any supplementation needed to be given (with Mom's consent of course) it should be given by cup or a non-artificial nipple source like a dropper - I think that is WHO recommendation too.

 

 

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#18 of 37 Old 03-27-2011, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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NAK--


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanine123 View Post

Look at the Anaestegiolist's Assoc. website for documentation that they consider breastmilk a clear liquid.  LLL too along with Kellymom.  I would give it until either Friday or Monday to hear from them since you spoke to someone directly.  For a letter I would give up to a week so they have time to punt it to the right person and get things going.


Thanks! I'll give it until Monday but I'm working on the letter now just in case.

 



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You might also mention that they shouldn't be giving her anything without your consent first.


Yes, definitely! 

 



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Children's in Plano is the Dallas Children's. It is just the Legacy location. 

 

They really do not care. And we go to fundraisers where their "important" people are there. It has been basically, a lost cause. Although, I will say, when it is brought up, that we take our children to Cooks. That has gotten us some dirty looks, but oh well.


Ugh, hopefully at the very least I can get that one doctor to learn about it. But she didn't say anything about glucose water first, so I'm wondering if it was just the uneducated nurse. 

 



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FWIW, I would avoid the term "virgin gut" and stick with the exclusive breastfeeding recommendations from the WHO, AAP etc, as they say explicitly that water should not be given to babies less than 6 months of age. I can see uninformed docs rolling their eyes at "virgin gut" more easily than their own medical association recommendations.

 

And if any supplementation needed to be given (with Mom's consent of course) it should be given by cup or a non-artificial nipple source like a dropper - I think that is WHO recommendation too.

 

 


Oh, definitely, I won't be using that term. I'll will put the Kellymom no solids link at the end, though. 

 


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#19 of 37 Old 04-01-2011, 12:27 PM
 
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I would definitely mention the nipple confusion. If I was told correctly, a baby sort of has to "relearn" nursing after a tongue tie clip...so introducing a bottle could potentially screw that up.


 


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#20 of 37 Old 04-05-2011, 12:40 PM
 
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Not sure why they did the GA.  My now 10 month old has had the procedure done twice.  The first time was done in our Ped's office at 2 weeks of age.  The next a week later at a more reputable person in town for doing them right.  The second one was a much deeper cut than the first.  Neither time did we have to have GA or any sort of Anasthetic.

 

We also nursed immediately afterwards and in the office for the dentist as he wanted to ensure it was done right.

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Not sure why they did the GA.  My now 10 month old has had the procedure done twice.  The first time was done in our Ped's office at 2 weeks of age.  The next a week later at a more reputable person in town for doing them right.  The second one was a much deeper cut than the first.  Neither time did we have to have GA or any sort of Anasthetic.

 

We also nursed immediately afterwards and in the office for the dentist as he wanted to ensure it was done right.



My midwife clipped DS's at 8 weeks....just a quick clip and done. It was really obvious where it needed clipping...we nursed afterwards and there was ZERO blood. No GA here either....


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#22 of 37 Old 05-02-2011, 11:21 AM
 
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I would be livid if any doctor/nurse/medical person had given my child ANYTHING without first getting my consent. Even without all the other valid issues brought up (nipple confusing/virgin gut/bm being a clear liquid) that alone would have pushed me over the line.


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#23 of 37 Old 05-03-2011, 12:24 AM
 
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Honestly, it doesn't sound like that big of a deal to me.  Sorry you're upset, but she latched and was happy to nurse, so I wouldn't worry about it (if it had been formula, I would have been mad - but it wasn't).



I agree with this also.  However, if you would like to advocate for some changes to be made as far as considering breastmilk to be a clear liquid, that sounds like a great cause.  It sounds like you received great care and your nurse didn't push artificial nipples or glucose water when you declined it.  Even if your baby had gotten a sip before you were able to intervene, I think don't think she would've been any worse for the wear.  I would be upset about formula, but glucose and water are naturally in her body and one suck of a bottle nipple would be highly unlikely to cause breastfeeding problems.  

 

As a nurse, I think I'd be scared to have some of you ladies as patients!  I'm surprised some of you seem so eager to create an uproar and insult your care providers.  I think gentle, polite education goes a long way.  I frequently learn new things from my patients.  I don't know everything (and I never will!).  I do my best to respectfully care for my patients, but I also have the right to be treated with respect.  When advocating for your children, I would encourage everyone to remember your manners.  

 

ETA:  The original poster did not indicate that she was rude or in anyway inappropriate, so my comment was not directed towards her.  I am just responding to some of the other posts on this thread which seemed quite harsh to me.  I don't normally hang out in the lactivism forum so maybe that is just the tone around here?

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#24 of 37 Old 05-03-2011, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree with this also.  However, if you would like to advocate for some changes to be made as far as considering breastmilk to be a clear liquid, that sounds like a great cause.  It sounds like you received great care and your nurse didn't push artificial nipples or glucose water when you declined it.  Even if your baby had gotten a sip before you were able to intervene, I think don't think she would've been any worse for the wear.  I would be upset about formula, but glucose and water are naturally in her body and one suck of a bottle nipple would be highly unlikely to cause breastfeeding problems.  

 

As a nurse, I think I'd be scared to have some of you ladies as patients!  I'm surprised some of you seem so eager to create an uproar and insult your care providers.  I think gentle, polite education goes a long way.  I frequently learn new things from my patients.  I don't know everything (and I never will!).  I do my best to respectfully care for my patients, but I also have the right to be treated with respect.  When advocating for your children, I would encourage everyone to remember your manners.  

 

ETA:  The original poster did not indicate that she was rude or in anyway inappropriate, so my comment was not directed towards her.  I am just responding to some of the other posts on this thread which seemed quite harsh to me.  I don't normally hang out in the lactivism forum so maybe that is just the tone around here?


It was a big deal for me. I'm glad it didn't happen when I wasn't there and wasn't pushed when I said no, but it still needs to be fixed. Since I wasn't asked, I'm relatively certain that had I not been there it would have been given anyway. A single bottle could impact many things, including her latch and flow preference as she shows signs of being susceptible to it.It can also mask any early warning signs of potential problems. Beyond all that, it's the simple fact that it somehow shows that breastfeeding is inferior and it's just wrong on so many levels.

 

But they did treat us wonderfully and I'm so thankful for that. I just think it's very important that they update their protocols to fit with the evidence. Even if the nurse had been rude or forceful, I still wouldn't hold any ill toward those who were great. I'd just like to refer my clients there without having to warn them about it, ya know?


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#25 of 37 Old 05-03-2011, 04:08 PM
 
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It was a big deal for me. I'm glad it didn't happen when I wasn't there and wasn't pushed when I said no, but it still needs to be fixed. Since I wasn't asked, I'm relatively certain that had I not been there it would have been given anyway. A single bottle could impact many things, including her latch and flow preference as she shows signs of being susceptible to it.It can also mask any early warning signs of potential problems. Beyond all that, it's the simple fact that it somehow shows that breastfeeding is inferior and it's just wrong on so many levels.

 

But they did treat us wonderfully and I'm so thankful for that. I just think it's very important that they update their protocols to fit with the evidence. Even if the nurse had been rude or forceful, I still wouldn't hold any ill toward those who were great. I'd just like to refer my clients there without having to warn them about it, ya know?

  That makes sense.  And, of course, just because it wouldn't be a big deal to me doesn't mean it shouldn't be to you.  I would be SOOO upset if I were in the same situation, but it was formula in the bottle instead of glucose water.  I know a lot of moms wouldn't agree with a little formula being a big deal, but it sure would be to me.  I'm glad you're doing something to advocate for change and it sounds like you've been respectful and kind while still firmly standing your ground.  

 


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#26 of 37 Old 05-03-2011, 04:42 PM
 
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I'm a little curious why glucose water would be considered OK and formula would be considered a red flag issue? I agree that the bottle shouldn't have been offered AT ALL (both of my sons had their tongue ties clipped and one of them was 2 yrs old when we did it!) I just don't understand how a non-nutritive substance (glucose water) would be preferred over formula (which although not as great as breast milk at least has nutritive properties.)

 

I hope the hospital listens to your concerns. That's always a big concern of taking my kids to the hospital. Many hospital "policies" need to be amended to reflect current findings, especially when it comes to children's health!


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The only reason I would have a problem with formula would be that my kids had allergies (MSPI) so I'd worry that it would upset their stomachs. Glucose water is a more benign substance. The bottle is not a big deal to me though.

DS (6.06), DD (10.08), DD (05.11).

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#28 of 37 Old 05-03-2011, 04:54 PM
 
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The only reason I would have a problem with formula would be that my kids had allergies (MSPI) so I'd worry that it would upset their stomachs. Glucose water is a more benign substance. The bottle is not a big deal to me though.


Ahhh! Ok :) Totally understand that then!

 


-:¦:-♥Sarah Lynne♥-:¦:-Wife to Michael and Mommy to Austin(5), Steven(3), Tristyn(1), and Laurelyn (6/3/2011)

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#29 of 37 Old 05-04-2011, 03:58 PM
 
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I'm a little curious why glucose water would be considered OK and formula would be considered a red flag issue? I agree that the bottle shouldn't have been offered AT ALL (both of my sons had their tongue ties clipped and one of them was 2 yrs old when we did it!) I just don't understand how a non-nutritive substance (glucose water) would be preferred over formula (which although not as great as breast milk at least has nutritive properties.)

 

I hope the hospital listens to your concerns. That's always a big concern of taking my kids to the hospital. Many hospital "policies" need to be amended to reflect current findings, especially when it comes to children's health!

 

 

Glucose and water are substances that are in my baby's body anyway.  Cow's milk and vegetable oils and other formula ingredients are not.  There is a big difference between the two even if a child is not allergic to anything in the formula. 
 

 


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#30 of 37 Old 05-04-2011, 05:03 PM
 
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Glucose and water are substances that are in my baby's body anyway.  Cow's milk and vegetable oils and other formula ingredients are not.  There is a big difference between the two even if a child is not allergic to anything in the formula. 
 

 




I see your point. Guess we'll just agree to disagree :)


-:¦:-♥Sarah Lynne♥-:¦:-Wife to Michael and Mommy to Austin(5), Steven(3), Tristyn(1), and Laurelyn (6/3/2011)

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