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#1 of 246 Old 03-30-2012, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/28/10520642-sweet-photo-of-dad-feeding-baby-turns-controversial

 

Assuming this is true, I don't think LLL should have done this. I think it just widens the gap instead of closing it. The focus should be on educating and encouraging new moms to breastfeed, not demonizing those who bottlefeed. 

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#2 of 246 Old 03-30-2012, 05:50 PM
 
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I don't think there was any demonizing happening. Here's an explanation from La Leche League Canada. http://www.lllc.ca/rugby-player-and-bottle

 

To me it makes sense for a government health promotion ad to have health promoting images and messages in it.

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#3 of 246 Old 04-02-2012, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The article you recommended does a much better job explaining it. I'm just afraid most people won't read it. I certainly support the reasoning, but I'm afraid most people will hear about it without hearing the explanation, which is evident by the types of comments left after the first article.

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#4 of 246 Old 04-02-2012, 11:35 AM
 
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http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/28/10520642-sweet-photo-of-dad-feeding-baby-turns-controversial

 

Assuming this is true, I don't think LLL should have done this. I think it just widens the gap instead of closing it. The focus should be on educating and encouraging new moms to breastfeed, not demonizing those who bottlefeed. 


I agree completely and I think this is why so many women are intimidated by the thought of seeking out LLL for support. This is why they are called the "breastfeeding nazis". (FTR I don't condone calling anyone Nazis but actual Nazis).

 

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#5 of 246 Old 04-02-2012, 05:57 PM
 
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The article you recommended does a much better job explaining it. I'm just afraid most people won't read it. I certainly support the reasoning, but I'm afraid most people will hear about it without hearing the explanation, which is evident by the types of comments left after the first article.


I know what you mean. My first thought when I heard about this was "why are we even hearing about this?" Usually these decisions are all made in a back room somewhere and only the finished product is seen by the public. It makes me think that someone with an agenda may have leaked it - and sadly with success if that was the case.

 

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#6 of 246 Old 04-06-2012, 01:07 AM
 
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Probably because a father feeding his baby should be viewed as standard and normal as a mother feeding her baby!

 

We are hearing about it because LLL has gone way too far. IMHO, it is totally out of bounds to say an image of a father feeding his baby can not be part of an anti-smoking ad. Give me a break! I find it as outrageous as the people commenting on the article and I have breastfed two children until age 3! 
 

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I know what you mean. My first thought when I heard about this was "why are we even hearing about this?"



 

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#7 of 246 Old 11-10-2012, 08:42 AM
 
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Probably because a father feeding his baby should be viewed as standard and normal as a mother feeding her baby!

Excuse me?  A parent bottle feeding a baby should be viewed as standard and normal as a mother breastfeeding  her baby?  Is that what you're saying?  How could a breastfeeding advocate think such a thing?

 

It is so important to promote the image of breastfeeding as the norm.  

 

Images that normalize bottle feeding are harmful to the health of society.  The makers of the ad were absolutely right to remove the image of bottle feeding.


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#8 of 246 Old 11-10-2012, 09:02 AM
 
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Dads have a huge role in parenting infants but somehow all people focus on is feeding. I'd love to see photos of dads playing with baby while changing diapers or babywearing sleeping LOs or bathing baby or any one of a million other things except bottle feeding. We are mammals and are meant to nurse. To promote the healthiest possible infant nutrition, dads just can't really help much with actually feeding baby in most circumstances. I'm all about fathers being portrayed in a nurturing, loving light and there are a million other activities that can be depicted to show this.
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#9 of 246 Old 12-04-2012, 01:47 PM
 
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Bottles have no place, it has nothing to do with dad vs mom or anything else, I guess you have to look at the larger picture. LLL is one of the very few trying to normalize bf and like any other area of change it will sometimes make people uncomfortable.
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#10 of 246 Old 12-04-2012, 02:12 PM
 
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Bottles have no place, it has nothing to do with dad vs mom or anything else, I guess you have to look at the larger picture. LLL is one of the very few trying to normalize bf and like any other area of change it will sometimes make people uncomfortable.

Seriously, "bottles have no place?" No place? What about babies who have a bad latch in the beginning? Moms who have a hard time making enough milk? People who have jobs? Moms who have more than one kid who needs to eat in the middle of the night?

 

Im really confused as to your comment that "bottles have no place." Are you insinuating that moms should exclusively feed from the breast no matter what? That dads/babysitters/grandmas/etc should never feed babies?


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#11 of 246 Old 12-04-2012, 02:15 PM
 
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No place in advertising
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#12 of 246 Old 12-04-2012, 02:47 PM
 
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I'm sure they chose a video of him feeding his daughter while talking about how he'll never smoke because of her is because it's much more intimate. Until he and his wife were more or less forced to make a statement, people had no way of knowing if it was expressed milk or formula. LLL is sounding awfully PETA-like with this. Bottle feeding "doesn't fit in with the message of public health"? Again, what if it were pumped milk? Is that not good enough? PETA is a huge turnoff even to the most devout vegetarians. I know, because I am one. I am a staunch lactivist but will not hesitate to paint LLL with the same brush if this is their new normal. The only way to make positive change is to get people together and educate in a non-confrontational way, and that won't happen if now only BFing moms who never pump a bottle for their DH (or anyone else) to feed the baby now fit the bill of healthy.

 

Also, are we now to villianize pumpers because it's not right from the tap? I know several moms who express enough milk for their partner to do a feeding each night while mom takes a bath or runs to Target. All the dads found it to be a special time. I personally love to see any form of advertising with a loving, gentle father caring for his child. 

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#13 of 246 Old 12-09-2012, 08:46 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

What about babies who have a bad latch in the beginning? Moms who have a hard time making enough milk? People who have jobs? Moms who have more than one kid who needs to eat in the middle of the night?

 

There might be some situations in which it's reasonable to consider a bottle, but these particular examples that you mention are instances in which a solution can usually be found which involves the child breastfeeding rather than bottle feeding. 

 

 

dads/babysitters/grandmas/etc should never feed babies?

They shouldn't feed babies except in a situation in which breastfeeding is impossible.

 

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Bottle feeding "doesn't fit in with the message of public health"? 

Correct.

 

 


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Again, what if it were pumped milk? Is that not good enough?

Breastfeeding is about a lot more than just the milk.  And even if it weren't, breastmilk itself only retains all of its qualities if the child consumes it the moment it emerges from the human nipple.  After that, it starts to lose its qualities, especially if it gets frozen.  Still heaps better than formula, of course, but if the child isn't feeding at the breast, they're not getting everything they're supposed to be getting.

 

 

[Disclaimer:  I am NOT suggesting that pumping mothers not freeze their breastmilk.  Freezing it is better than letting it spoil.  Obviously do not feed your child spoiled milk!]


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Also, are we now to villianize pumpers because it's not right from the tap?

 

It is entirely reasonable for LLL and other lactivists not to want images of bottlefeeding to be promoted.  That does not mean that pumpers are "villainized." 

 

 


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 I personally love to see any form of advertising with a loving, gentle father caring for his child. 

 

 

I'd love to see loving gentle fathers spending time having healthy, positive interactions involving just about anything *other* than feeding the baby.

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#14 of 246 Old 12-09-2012, 09:36 AM
 
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I agree completely and I think this is why so many women are intimidated by the thought of seeking out LLL for support. This is why they are called the "breastfeeding nazis". (FTR I don't condone calling anyone Nazis but actual Nazis).


My local group was a pack of weird nazi's. I ran a new mom's group later in that same community for many years and felt it necessary to warn moms about that particular LLL group and its leaders. Truly unacceptable some of the guilt they laid on me as a new mom trying to finish her college degree. They were going to have me drop out of college and even get a divorce and go on welfare, all so that I could continue to suckle my child whenever she needed to. And btw, I continued nursing that child in spite of their bad advice. It gives me the shivers just to think about 18 years later.

No, I don't care to see bottles but I now work in childcare and many of the bottles I give babies are full of pumped breastmilk. Cool beans.
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#15 of 246 Old 12-09-2012, 12:57 PM
 
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Most moms work. Many dads are SAHDs. feeding is a part of care giving and there's a reason many people cite it as a "benefit" of formula feeding. To jump to conclusions in a 30 second commercial about smoking is ridiculous. Do we know what's in the bottle? (we didn't prior to their announcement). Does his wife work? Things like this turn people off of breastfeeding. I am a huge BF advocate, and stuff like this makes me want to wash my hands of lactivism entirely so that I'm not associated with people who overstep their boundaries. It's equivalent to PETA freaking out about a dog being attached to a chain in the background of a commercial about the benefits of homeownership. Of course, as someone who has put in years of work in college, I'll undoubtedly be one of those moms whose babies get pumped milk on a daily basis. That's the thing...I don't care if pumped milk isn't quite as good as from the tap because I know it's better than formula. The average person who has no strong feelings about breastfeeding certainly isn't going to be encouraged by being told that pumped milk is inferior. It all comes down to the way the message is given. Saying "pumped milk is nutritionally inferior and should only be given when drinking from the breast is impossible" sounds a lot more condescending than "pumping milk for your baby is far superior to formula when feeding directly from the breast isn't possible." 

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#16 of 246 Old 12-10-2012, 12:04 PM
 
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Most moms work. Many dads are SAHDs. feeding is a part of care giving and there's a reason many people cite it as a "benefit" of formula feeding. To jump to conclusions in a 30 second commercial about smoking is ridiculous. Do we know what's in the bottle? (we didn't prior to their announcement). Does his wife work? Things like this turn people off of breastfeeding. I am a huge BF advocate, and stuff like this makes me want to wash my hands of lactivism entirely so that I'm not associated with people who overstep their boundaries. It's equivalent to PETA freaking out about a dog being attached to a chain in the background of a commercial about the benefits of homeownership. Of course, as someone who has put in years of work in college, I'll undoubtedly be one of those moms whose babies get pumped milk on a daily basis. That's the thing...I don't care if pumped milk isn't quite as good as from the tap because I know it's better than formula. The average person who has no strong feelings about breastfeeding certainly isn't going to be encouraged by being told that pumped milk is inferior. It all comes down to the way the message is given. Saying "pumped milk is nutritionally inferior and should only be given when drinking from the breast is impossible" sounds a lot more condescending than "pumping milk for your baby is far superior to formula when feeding directly from the breast isn't possible." 

The fact that most American mothers feel that, for financial reasons, they must work outside the home during their baby's first year (and, by the way, the fact that American women only get a few weeks of maternity leave is horrible!), does not mean that we need more images in the media of babies being bottle fed.  The viewer does not know that the bottle *doesn't* contain formula.  The viewer doesn't even think about it.  The image of the bottle fed baby just gets imprinted on their brain, and it trains them to think that the way babies are fed is with a bottle.  Little girls, who will be mothers some day, and need to learn what to do by watching other people, are watching the commercial and being trained to think that the way babies are fed is with a bottle.  It is not in any way "overstepping their boundaries" for a breastfeeding advocacy organization to wish to limit the normalization of bottle feeding.  Yes, pumped milk is much better than formula, but that doesn't mean breastfeeding advocates shouldn't care that pumped milk isn't as good as direct breastfeeding.  The inferiority of pumped milk compared with direct breastfeeding is a fact that should be considered without defensiveness.  Yes, the way the message is given is important.  Direct breastfeeding is the biological norm -- it is what children are meant to have -- so it should be treated as the standard default.  If someone says "pumped milk is inferior to direct breastfeeding and should only be used when direct breastfeeding is impossible" and you hear condescension instead of the simple, straightforward statement that it is, then that is an emotion that you are bringing to it -- you are projecting your own defensiveness.  "Pumping milk for your baby is far superior to formula when feeding directly from the breast isn't possible" is also accurate.

 

http://www.motherchronicle.com/watchyourlanguage.html

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#17 of 246 Old 12-10-2012, 05:37 PM
 
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You know, I guess I could *kinda* see the thought process of LLL being opposed to images of the mom bottlefeeding, but seriously, the dad? The dad is feeding his child. IMO, the image promotes a father caring for his child- something "american moms" could sure use a lot more of. 


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#18 of 246 Old 12-10-2012, 07:52 PM
 
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I donno, I think when your own base (I am speaking of LLL) here starts to say you have gone too far, the organization should probably listen.  I like what someone else said earlier about LLL becoming like PETA.  I agree with that.  Taking extreme positions is never going to help the message and I think they have become too extreme.  They are risking a backlash to the message of breastfeeding all together and I don't like that.  I mean, look here.  I breastfed both my children until they were 3ish years old and I have began to really dislike LLL.  I am sure I am not the only one.  If they are losing someone like me then um, what makes them think they can win the public?  I think it is a question of strategy.  The publicity of what happened with the incident has hurt, not helped, the breastfeeding movement IMHO. 

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#19 of 246 Old 12-10-2012, 08:14 PM
 
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I donno, I think when your own base (I am speaking of LLL) here starts to say you have gone too far, the organization should probably listen.  I like what someone else said earlier about LLL becoming like PETA.  I agree with that.  Taking extreme positions is never going to help the message and I think they have become too extreme.  They are risking a backlash to the message of breastfeeding all together and I don't like that.  I mean, look here.  I breastfed both my children until they were 3ish years old and I have began to really dislike LLL.  I am sure I am not the only one.  If they are losing someone like me then um, what makes them think they can win the public?  I think it is a question of strategy.  The publicity of what happened with the incident has hurt, not helped, the breastfeeding movement IMHO. 

I totally agree. 


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#20 of 246 Old 12-10-2012, 10:48 PM
 
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The fact that most American mothers feel that, for financial reasons, they must work outside the home during their baby's first year (and, by the way, the fact that American women only get a few weeks of maternity leave is horrible!), does not mean that we need more images in the media of babies being bottle fed.  The viewer does not know that the bottle *doesn't* contain formula.  The viewer doesn't even think about it.  The image of the bottle fed baby just gets imprinted on their brain, and it trains them to think that the way babies are fed is with a bottle.  Little girls, who will be mothers some day, and need to learn what to do by watching other people, are watching the commercial and being trained to think that the way babies are fed is with a bottle.  It is not in any way "overstepping their boundaries" for a breastfeeding advocacy organization to wish to limit the normalization of bottle feeding.  Yes, pumped milk is much better than formula, but that doesn't mean breastfeeding advocates shouldn't care that pumped milk isn't as good as direct breastfeeding.  The inferiority of pumped milk compared with direct breastfeeding is a fact that should be considered without defensiveness.  Yes, the way the message is given is important.  Direct breastfeeding is the biological norm -- it is what children are meant to have -- so it should be treated as the standard default.  If someone says "pumped milk is inferior to direct breastfeeding and should only be used when direct breastfeeding is impossible" and you hear condescension instead of the simple, straightforward statement that it is, then that is an emotion that you are bringing to it -- you are projecting your own defensiveness.  "Pumping milk for your baby is far superior to formula when feeding directly from the breast isn't possible" is also accurate.

 

http://www.motherchronicle.com/watchyourlanguage.html

 

Again, this completely alienates a large segment of mothers who not only could benefit from LLL, but need it. Not all women work because they have to. Plenty work for no reason other than they want to. Messages like the one you are supporting are that women should move heaven and earth to make sure they never even give their baby a bottle of pumped milk. The ramifications of that message are huge. Going out for a night with friends? Working, either by choice or necessity? Having an hour alone in the tub while DH feeds baby after you've been touched out? Choosing to EP because you prefer it to nursing? Nope. 

 

Lactivism has made huge strides, and it is SUCH an important movement. However, there are still improvements to be made. Drawing lines in the sand will only make us, as a movement, crumble. Perhaps I'm defensive because I know my personality and know I'm so far from perfect, but sometimes there's a lot to be said about "good enough." If I leave my babe and DH with a few bottles of pumped milk and enjoy a glorious day off with my mom and sister, that is good enough, and good enough is okay.

 

I hate to keep going back to PETA, but the parallels are too striking. PETA maintains that veganism is the best. Period, no stops. And in terms of animal cruelty prevention, veganism is the clear winner. However, this excludes vegetarians (I am one). Where do we fit in? We clearly are miles ahead of the majority of the population in terms of ethical eating. We outnumber vegans immensely. Yet, we feel marginalized because we don't live up to the highest of the elite. Obviously, the utopian ideal in terms of BF is that hospitals encourage it, maternity leave is expanded and employers have on-site daycare that allows for nursing breaks. We can absolutely work towards that. In the meantime though, we live in this world, where very few women provide their babies with only breastmilk and only a fraction of those never use pumped bottles. Alienating them, like PETA has alienated the vegetarians, leads to a fringe movement with a message that seems impossible to most of society.

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#21 of 246 Old 12-10-2012, 11:28 PM
 
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My local group was a pack of weird nazi's.

 

So they did weird things in addition to committing torture and genocide?  Why not just use the term zealot, or something like that.  Why Nazi?  

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#22 of 246 Old 12-11-2012, 12:27 AM
 
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I don't think that the fact that someone is college educated should mean she'll "undoubtedly" not EBF her child. That just doesn't sit well with me.

My DS got plenty of pumped milk during his first year of life while I worked my part time job, so his daddy often fed him bottles. I don't even like the LLL. They've always seemed to militant and bossy in a condescending way... yes, l liked the PETA vegan/vegetarian analogy.

But- I do agree with what they're saying here. It is irresponsible for the ad to feature a father bottle feeding when there are so many other things he could be doing whith his child that would promote the desired message with no unintended subtext. Sure, there are plenty of acceptable (to most) explanations for why and what a dad might be feeding a baby, but there are also many things he could be doing that don't send the message that babies are supposed to drink from bottles. Plain and simple, it does look like formula feeding, and that is bad from a public health standpoint.
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#23 of 246 Old 12-11-2012, 05:36 AM
 
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I don't feel like LLL is alienating their base. Their base is not casual breast feeders. Their base is zealots because only zealots devote their life to a cause and when you have that tightly structured of an organization based around volunteer labor... You require zealots. smile.gif I actually feel ok about them being the radical edge of lactivism.

I tell pregnant women that if they are feeling insecure go talk to LLL a couple of times during pregnancy so you have a pre established relationship with them in case you decide you need a lot of support. They are desperate to support you.but don't get attached. They have their own lives. Unless you want to join the cult be friendly and nice and don't bother to challenge the party line.

I think that is the way for such volunteer based activities to continue. But opinions vary. smile.gif

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#24 of 246 Old 12-11-2012, 09:21 PM
 
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So they did weird things in addition to committing torture and genocide?  Why not just use the term zealot, or something like that.  Why Nazi?  

Somebody else used that term first. I merely seconded it.
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#25 of 246 Old 12-12-2012, 06:42 AM
 
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I also agree this hurts the breastfeeding movement.    But it also depends on what the movement's goal is.  One would think that the movement's goal is more breasfeeding taking place.  But items like this (dad cannot use a bottle) makes many women terrified to breastfeed because of the far reaching Myth that that means they are the only ones that can care for their child and that they will not have any help.  It makes breastfeeding seem like something out of reach.

 

I myself fell into that trap when I was pregnant until my mother snapped me out of it.  I didn't think breasfeeding would be realistic because I was planning to go back to work.  She said then pump that way baby is still getting the milk, that is the most important thing.  And it is.  My son got nothing but breastmilk his full 6 months and never received formula (at 6 months he started solids in addition).  It was great for him.  I was even able to donate to a milk bank.

 

But he got a lot of milk through bottles.  I wish LLL and other activist groups would promote the multiple avenues to breast milk for children rather than self promotion of the organization.

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#26 of 246 Old 12-12-2012, 07:09 AM
 
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Lll actively discourages mother to mother milk sharing. Their goal is not to get the most breastmilk into the most babies.
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#27 of 246 Old 12-12-2012, 07:16 AM
 
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The people who object to removing the add should read the link the pp provided before commenting. The New Zealand government promotes breastfeeding.  Part of that is to normalize breastfeeding by providing images of breastfeeding (instead of the usual bottle feeding image) Formula feeding a choice that consumers have. But using images of formula feeding goes against  promoting breastfeeding as the norm. So its logical not to use that image.

 

I was asked to cover up or leave the room,  at a thankgiving dinner by friends who invited me and my suckling. Leaving the room meant being excluded from the dinner, and the baby was sleepy and needed to be nursed. Covering up wasnt really feasible, but i did my best to pretent. (i sat on the sofa)   

 

You see, they need to see more images of breastfeeding women. 

 

At the same time, i also own a can of formula that i use if i have a babysitter, or so my kids get the chance to feed the baby as a bonding thing.   ( I am glad i can buy  this so yay! consumer choice!)

 

But breastfeeding is better (im so glad i dont depend on that can), and IS NORMAL, and good on the government of  New Zealand for promoting it as normal. Why should they fund an image that  undermines that policy?   

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#28 of 246 Old 12-12-2012, 07:26 AM
 
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Where i come from LLL talks of pumping alot, they have a group for working mothers. Ive never really experienced this  zealotry people talk about.  Ive met some really nice people at LLL , and they seemed pretty easy going. But it was wic, not LLL, who helped me the most in establishing a breastfeeding relationship with my firstborn when it seemed like it was never going to happen.  

 

I find people who ban you to a room or cover up to breastfeed zealous  and ignorant.  

 

Maybe in some places LLL needs to improve their act. It has nothing to do with the issue at hand though.

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#29 of 246 Old 12-12-2012, 01:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

You know, I guess I could *kinda* see the thought process of LLL being opposed to images of the mom bottlefeeding, but seriously, the dad? The dad is feeding his child. IMO, the image promotes a father caring for his child- something "american moms" could sure use a lot more of. 

Mothers could sure use a lot more of fathers helping out with anything *other* than feeding.  Babies need to be fed by their mothers.

 

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I donno, I think when your own base (I am speaking of LLL) here starts to say you have gone too far, the organization should probably listen.

Jesus I hope not.  This isn't the time to start backing off and taking the movement backwards.  My biggest problem with LLL has always been that they were too moderate and tried too hard to please everyone and not be controversial or confrontational.  I'm hoping that the voices that I'm hearing saying that they shouldn't have spoken up on this issue are in the minority of the lactivist movement.  It certainly would have been a minority opinion in this sub-forum years ago when I spent much more time here.  Things have certainly changed.

 

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 Taking extreme positions is never going to help the message

Holy crow!  The position that our society promotes too many images that normalize bottlefeeding is NOT an extreme position for a breastfeeding advocacy organization to take!  What the heck is going on around here??

 

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If they are losing someone like me then um, what makes them think they can win the public?

That has always been an unavoidable problem for LLL.  There have always been so many people in this culture who do not support breastfeeding, that LLL was never able to win over the general public, no matter how moderate they made themselves.

 

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Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post

Not all women work because they have to. Plenty work for no reason other than they want to. Messages like the one you are supporting are that women should move heaven and earth to make sure they never even give their baby a bottle of pumped milk. 

I, myself, am a career-minded woman.  Right now my career is mothering, and I think it's the most challenging and fulfilling career in the the world.  Some day, when my children don't need me at home any more, I am going to have a different career, and I would be determined to have it whether there were a financial need for me to have one or not.  But I would never choose to work outside the home, parted from my child, during his first year of life, if there was no financial necessity.  If a mother of a young baby chose to do such a thing just because she felt like it, I would think that she must just not know how important breastfeeding is.  And that's why we need education.  And it's also why we need to get images out of the media that normalize bottlefeeding.  I personally would have moved heaven and earth to protect my breastfeeding relationship with my children, but I don't expect everyone else to do the same, and I never said they should.

 

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Going out for a night with friends? Working, either by choice or necessity? Having an hour alone in the tub while DH feeds baby after you've been touched out? Choosing to EP because you prefer it to nursing? Nope. 

Again, choosing to go out for a night with friends, as a casual decision, just because you feel like it, even though you have a baby who's so young that they need to be breastfed every 2 or 3 hours?  Sounds like the mother has been misinformed to the point that she's been convinced that a bottle can be *exactly* as good as breastfeeding -- or that the difference, at most, is insignificant.  On the other hand, I fully support a mother taking such a break if she's really at the end of her rope and feels like she's about to go crazy if she doesn't get a break.  Hopefully such an extreme situation wouldn't happen too often.  

 

I think I've already covered working.

 

Feeling touched out?  Again, I can understand it.  I'm not saying a bottle of EBM is the end of the world.  Personally I felt touched out many times and I went right on breastfeeding anyway, but I don't hold others to that standard.  Hopefully things wouldn't become unbearable so often that it would be really frequent.

 

Choosing to EP because you prefer it to breastfeeding?  I would only hope that, before this preference was acted on, the mother would fully educate herself on the differences, and on what the child needs, and why, and all of the things that can be affected by a lack of feeding from the breast.

 

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Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post

 sometimes there's a lot to be said about "good enough."

Historically, that is a dangerous phrase.  Countless humans never consumed a drop of human breastmilk because society convinced mothers that formula was "good enough."

 

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Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post

 

I hate to keep going back to PETA, but the parallels are too striking. 

I have to say that's really ridiculous and unfair, and actually laughable.  I'm familiar with many of PETA's tactics.  They are purposely extreme -- WAY over the top, capitalizing on shock value.  Deliberately controversial.  Whereas LLL is just speaking out against the normalization of bottlefeeding in the media, which is a completely reasonable thing for LLL to do, and they have a history of being very moderate and welcoming.  LLL and PETA are practically opposites.

 

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Originally Posted by KaylaBeanie View Post

 

In the meantime though, we live in this world, where very few women provide their babies with only breastmilk and only a fraction of those never use pumped bottles. 

And that's never going to change if we keep intentionally inundating everyone with "positive, heartwarming" images of babies being fed bottles.  LLL shouldn't just support the status quo.  They are supposed to work toward progress.  They should try to create positive change.  Trying to reduce negative forces that work against breastfeeding is one good way to do that.  

 

 


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Originally Posted by philomom View Post

Somebody else used that term first. I merely seconded it.
Well that makes it OK then.  eyesroll.gif
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakotacakes View Post

But items like this (dad cannot use a bottle) makes many women terrified to breastfeed because of the far reaching Myth that that means they are the only ones that can care for their child and that they will not have any help. 

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that this action by LLL is responsible for such terror.  There are plenty of ways for partners, other family members, friends, and society, to support breastfeeding mothers.  But that doesn't mean the mother isn't the one who should actually be feeding the child.  There's a difference between supporting her and actually doing the feeding for her, which doesn't meet the child's needs.  Also, people other than the mother can change the child's diapers and help care for the child in countless other ways.

 

 


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Originally Posted by Dakotacakes View Post

I didn't think breasfeeding would be realistic because I was planning to go back to work.  She said then pump that way baby is still getting the milk, that is the most important thing.  And it is.  My son got nothing but breastmilk his full 6 months and never received formula (at 6 months he started solids in addition).  It was great for him.  

That's great.  It really is.  I'm so glad she said that to you.

 

It doesn't have to be all or nothing.  If a mother has already decided that she's going to work outside the home, that doesn't mean the baby has to be fed formula.  It's true that pumped milk in a bottle isn't as good as direct breastfeeding, but, as I said, it's a heck of a lot better than formula.  You are correct that the human breastmilk is the most important thing.  It absolutely is.  It's not the only important thing, but it is the most important thing.  Pumping is so much better than feeding formula, and you should feel good about that.  There are so many babies that never get any human milk at all.  I just want to emphasize that I appreciate the effort that pumping mothers go to.  The pumping is definitely worth it, because formula is so inadequate.  Human milk rocks!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakotacakes View Post

I wish LLL and other activist groups would promote the multiple avenues to breast milk for children

I doubt that they would have objected to an image of a mother pumping.  One of the problems with an image of a baby being fed a bottle is that there's no implication that it's even human milk.  And showing the father doing the feeding leaves the mother out of the picture altogether.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by contactmaya View Post

 

I was asked to cover up or leave the room,  at a thankgiving dinner by friends who invited me and my suckling. Leaving the room meant being excluded from the dinner, and the baby was sleepy and needed to be nursed. Covering up wasnt really feasible, but i did my best to pretent. (i sat on the sofa)   

 

You see, they need to see more images of breastfeeding women. 

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#30 of 246 Old 12-13-2012, 05:25 PM
 
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If you don't see how telling women that they shouldn't work (by making "better financial decisions") and shouldn't go out for more than an hour or two at a time for a year or more isn't extreme, we are living on different planets. 


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