The case against breastfeeding... - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
momtoS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am in no way agreeing with article...I am debating this with someone who still believes her to be credible after learning the author worked at Comedy Central....(do a search for her other article advocating Circumision....) please tell me what you think of this article...http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/04/the-case-against-breast-feeding/307311/
momtoS is offline  
#2 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 10:50 AM
 
Imakcerka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 4,065
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)

You linked the circ one.  Did you mean to do that?

Imakcerka is offline  
#3 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
 
momtoS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,839
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Fixed it!
momtoS is offline  
#4 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 11:17 AM
 
fruitfulmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Between the Rockies and a Flat Place
Posts: 4,216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)

I stopped around "From the moment a new mother enters the obstetrician’s waiting room, she is subjected to the upper-class parents’ jingle: “Breast Is Best.” - I've never been upper nor middle class and probably never will be and I have never felt like anyone was forcing me to breastfeed, certainly never felt that I was being told by anyone in a better financial situation than me what to do. Breastfeeding has never been a hardship for me. I don't get those euphoric feelings from it or whatever, but I have managed to do it without much break at all for the last thirteen years.

 

I realize the financial decisions involved are not quite as simple as cost of formula vs. cost of bf'ing, but if the avg. cost of formula being $60 to $100/month (2011) is correct, I've saved myself over $12,000 by bf'ing my kids, not including the elemental formula costs I would had to have with one of my dds.


fruitfulmomma is online now  
#5 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 12:32 PM
 
LilyTiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,809
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

I generally agree with Rosin's conclusion:

 

"So overall, yes, breast is probably best. But not so much better that formula deserves the label of “public health menace,” alongside smoking. Given what we know so far, it seems reasonable to put breast-feeding’s health benefits on the plus side of the ledger and other things—modesty, independence, career, sanity—on the minus side, and then tally them up and make a decision. But in this risk-averse age of parenting, that’s not how it’s done."

 

There's so much judgment about this issue and I think it can be damaging.  Women who cannot breastfeed for whatever reason (and many cannot due to work or to physical limitations or medical issues) feel overwhelming guilt about it.  And women who breastfeed are judged for nursing in public or "spoiling" their older infants if they choose to BF past age 1.  I wish we were better at respecting people's varied choices while still doing research on the costs and benefits of breastmilk and formula in order to better understand precisely what infants need, both nutritionally and emotionally.

 

And while Rosin's right that much of the research findings on breastmilk's benefits are somewhat modest, there are other researchers whose sole focus is on understanding what breastmilk does who point out that we know so little about the benefits of breastmilk both in the long and short term that it's silly to say that formula is or is not a decent replacement (see http://mammalssuck.blogspot.com/).  We just don't know enough.  For me then, as someone who has a supportive job and husband, I choose to breastfeed.  But that choice might be different for others.


Beautiful baby girl born 8/13/2012. Little star baby lost at 10 weeks pregnant, 12/18/2013. Currently due 12/13/2014 with a rainbow.
LilyTiger is offline  
#6 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 12:38 PM
 
Alenushka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 1,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

Breast is not always best. I wish that nonsense stopped already. It only make people feel bad.

 

Nothing in life is ever black and white.

Alenushka is offline  
#7 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 12:40 PM
 
LilyTiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,809
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

Also, for the science nerds out there, this blog post just blew my mind:

 

http://mammalssuck.blogspot.com/2013/04/hormones-in-mothers-milk-influence.html


Beautiful baby girl born 8/13/2012. Little star baby lost at 10 weeks pregnant, 12/18/2013. Currently due 12/13/2014 with a rainbow.
LilyTiger is offline  
#8 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 01:43 PM
 
sillysapling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 630
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Breast is not always best. I wish that nonsense stopped already. It only make people feel bad.

 

Nothing in life is ever black and white.

 

 

This is so true. The ONLY PPD I've had (and I have a history of serious depression) has been feeling horrible that I can't breastfeed my child. At WIC, I told them from day one that I had surgery (bilateral mastectomy- my nipples are literally grafted on) and, while I hoped a miracle would occur, the odds of me being able to breastfeed were slim and the chance of being able to produce a full supply so small as to not be worth mentioning. I still had to sit through "support groups" where I got told that breastmilk was the only chance my child had of growing up healthy and happy, that "everyone produces enough milk" (patently untrue), not to worry about how much we were producing as a newborn only needs "drops" (misleading at best). I walked out of every "support group" wanting to cry and feeling like a horrible person.

 

I still wish I could, but more because I personally find formula to be a horrible hassle and breast milk (which I've gotten from a mom who had a baby a few months before me and had surplus from pumping) much easier, and I really think my baby would prefer to be able to nurse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post

I stopped around "From the moment a new mother enters the obstetrician’s waiting room, she is subjected to the upper-class parents’ jingle: “Breast Is Best.” - I've never been upper nor middle class and probably never will be and I have never felt like anyone was forcing me to breastfeed, certainly never felt that I was being told by anyone in a better financial situation than me what to do. Breastfeeding has never been a hardship for me. I don't get those euphoric feelings from it or whatever, but I have managed to do it without much break at all for the last thirteen years.

 

I realize the financial decisions involved are not quite as simple as cost of formula vs. cost of bf'ing, but if the avg. cost of formula being $60 to $100/month (2011) is correct, I've saved myself over $12,000 by bf'ing my kids, not including the elemental formula costs I would had to have with one of my dds.

I'm glad you didn't feel that pressure. WIC, which is aimed at lower class families to help with expenses, pushes "breast is the best" horrendously, basically telling people in it that if you don't breastfeed your child, you're a horrible person. Based on my experiences with both OBGYN and midwives, if we were middle+ class I really don't think we would have gotten nearly as much "breast is best" pressure as we did thanks to needing WIC.


familybed1.gif homebirth.jpgnocirc.gifmalesling.GIFecbaby2.gif 

Proud Formula Feeder, I support how ALL parents feed their babies. Breast or bottle, formula or breastmilk, and any combination thereof.

Happily married since 4/30/2009  Our first was born 4/23/2013

sillysapling is offline  
#9 of 22 Old 06-12-2013, 06:46 AM
 
mama24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: with the dust bunnies
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilyTiger View Post

I generally agree with Rosin's conclusion:

 

"So overall, yes, breast is probably best. But not so much better that formula deserves the label of “public health menace,” alongside smoking. Given what we know so far, it seems reasonable to put breast-feeding’s health benefits on the plus side of the ledger and other things—modesty, independence, career, sanity—on the minus side, and then tally them up and make a decision. But in this risk-averse age of parenting, that’s not how it’s done."

 

There's so much judgment about this issue and I think it can be damaging.  Women who cannot breastfeed for whatever reason (and many cannot due to work or to physical limitations or medical issues) feel overwhelming guilt about it.  And women who breastfeed are judged for nursing in public or "spoiling" their older infants if they choose to BF past age 1.  I wish we were better at respecting people's varied choices while still doing research on the costs and benefits of breastmilk and formula in order to better understand precisely what infants need, both nutritionally and emotionally.

 

And while Rosin's right that much of the research findings on breastmilk's benefits are somewhat modest, there are other researchers whose sole focus is on understanding what breastmilk does who point out that we know so little about the benefits of breastmilk both in the long and short term that it's silly to say that formula is or is not a decent replacement (see http://mammalssuck.blogspot.com/).  We just don't know enough.  For me then, as someone who has a supportive job and husband, I choose to breastfeed.  But that choice might be different for others.

 

I read this article after it was published. 

 

There is so much judgement not becuase of formula & the difference between it & breastfeeding, but because everyone takes every. single. thing. personally. in Western culture.  We (I say we, even though I've worked to learn not to do this) do it w/ everything - your baby is no longer sitting rear-facing but mine is, well, you're judging me; your kid is still nursing & mine isn't, well, you're judging me; you don't vax & I do, well, you're judging me; you eat organic & I don't, you're judging me.  The list is endless.  This will not change until people decide to stop (& I believe, until people start taking their children's needs & feelings for what they are & stop dismissing them.  I beleive the propensity to take every. single. thing. personally is becuase of issues created in childhood.) doing this.

 

For anyone wanting to get over feeling judged by others, The Four Agreements is an awesome read.

 

And, for the record, I don't hold the disdain the most people do for judgement.  I don't think its bad.  Judging someones actions as not for me has allowed me to do what does work for me.  It's only when people take it personally, is there a problem.  We judge people all the time & are just fine w/ it: the court system.

 

People like this author & other "don't judge me because I'm FF"ing," screamers seem to think that there is no difference, or very little difference between FF'ing & BF'ing.  Well, when you value BF'ing as the norm for humans (just as nursing is the norm for all other mammals when they do not experience human interference), it's not the same.  No study in the world is needed by me because it's simply normal.  Because it is normal, it means there are consequences to not BF'ing.  BF'ing is about way more than just getting a food into a baby.  FF is about getting food into a baby.  FF means that all the other needs that BF'ing meets will need to be met in another way or that need goes unmet, possibly forever.  For the majroity of human history, it's been the only option.  Yes, I know FF saves babies in some cases.  No, I'm not saying those babies should have died (this is the same kind of diversion from the original topic as those pro-circs throw up durning a genital integrity discussion).  I was FF'd from day one.  I'm not fine.  My children are not fine because I was FF'd.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Breast is not always best. I wish that nonsense stopped already. It only make people feel bad.

 

Nothing in life is ever black and white.

 

Again, you are right.  Breast is normal.  All else has consequences for mother & baby & everyone else.  People feel bad because of factors not related to BF'ing.  And, you're right, things are not usually black & white.  But to gloss over the fact that BF'ing is normal is to downplay the importnace of it & to make it sound like they're equivalent.  If it didn't matter whether a baby was BF'd or FF'd, then it also wouldn't matter if a baby was fed kool aid.  Yes, an extreme example, but that's the logic.  

 

I had a friend years ago who tried & tried to bf.  She had every card stacked against her & was sabotoged by the hospital who operated on her child.  WHat did I do?  I empathized.  I tried to help in other ways.  I gave bf;ing info & support when she asked for it.  Did I judge?  Well, I do think I would have dome some things differently, but she didn't ask about that, I didn't tell her & we were still friends.  I'm glad formula was available for her to use so her child could survive.  But to say that it was the same, just isn't true.  And she knew that too which was why she continued to try to get bf'ing to work.

 

Okay, that's all I have time for.  Breast is not best.  It's normal.  There was an article written years ago, by an IBCLC, I believe, about this topic.  IT was called something like, "Watch your language."

 

Sus

momasana and Kysaroko like this.

Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
mama24-7 is online now  
#10 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 04:31 AM
 
sharon71's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Sorry but breast milk is the best it is better than formula hands down,formula will never be as good or better than breastmilk. Yes many mothers need to use formula I was one of them but I'm no fool either.

I'd be doing myself a big disservice by pretending formula was like breastmilk and did not cause any ill effects.

 

http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Dangers-Of-Formula-Milk

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2812877/

http://www.waba.org.my/whatwedo/advocacy/pdf/21dangers.pdf

http://www.lactivist.com/dangform.html
 

Kysaroko likes this.

Sharon wife to my hero James and  momma to Kaitlyn 17, Tayler 15 and Anna 7.fur momma to Kami  pit/boxer mix.

sharon71 is offline  
#11 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 07:47 AM
 
marsupial-mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I appreciated the perspective the article gave.

As an adoptive mom and former foster mom of premies I know for certain that formula was the best option for those babies.

As a feminist who shares childcare with my spouse I know formula was the best option for us.
Imakcerka likes this.
marsupial-mom is offline  
#12 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 10:35 AM
 
salr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)

Just mentioning that I'm a feminist and I share childcare with my spouse and daycare provider while I work out of the home.  I pump. 

 

I think you were just talking about what you did and what the basis for your decision was.  I wanted to point out that being a feminist and having others help with childcare doesn't necessarily mean that formula is the best option. For me and my family, breast milk was the best option.

salr is online now  
#13 of 22 Old 07-01-2013, 11:03 AM
 
Alenushka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 1,893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

Formula is better than starvation.

 

There is a list of reasons when breast is not the best. It is the reality. Not everyone can afford screened donor milk


Formula will never be like BM , but it is a better alternative than many other things.

Imakcerka likes this.
Alenushka is offline  
#14 of 22 Old 07-05-2013, 07:41 AM
 
mama24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: with the dust bunnies
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsupial-mom View Post

I appreciated the perspective the article gave.

As an adoptive mom and former foster mom of premies I know for certain that formula was the best option for those babies.

As a feminist who shares childcare with my spouse I know formula was the best option for us.

 

As a humanist, I believe each person is born expecting to receive the nutrition that they were made to receive & will suffer consequences either immediately and/or down the road from not receiving the food they were meant to have.  I know that being a feminist doesn't preclude nursing.  I can think of at least one relatively famous feminist who is also a huge supporter of breastfeeding: Jake Marcus.  

 

As I've been contemplating responding to these posts, my gut has been seriously messed up & I've been in pain for most of the week.  Not debilitating, but in pain so that I remember, "oh right, I'm seriously messed up." greensad.gif angry.gif I'm sure my mother thought that it was best, at the time, for me to be fed artificial milk.  Now she knows, more than 30 years later, that it was not best.  Had I been breastfed, I know that my condition would not be as severe as it is & therefore, my children wouldn't likely be suffering as much as they are, because of what I passed onto them.

 

I have read that there are lots of rules for fostering children & I *think* I've read that you can not nurse them.  I know that adoptive nursing is possible, with some planning ahead of the baby & knowing what I do about using an at-breast supplemental system, know that it could be done even w/ very little planning.  Yes, some other food would need to be used in the supplementer; I also know that it's possible, although certainly not as easy as going to the store to buy artificial milk, to procure human milk from other nursing mothers.  Surely some human milk would have been better than none.  There is a lot to do to take care of a mother/baby dyad.  Nursing is just one of the jobs that needs doing.  Again, not nursing means that all the needs beyond nutrition have to be met another way w/ artificial feeding.  That creates a lot more work.  That's work that I never wanted to do & am beyond happy that I was able to make bf'ing work the first time & had an easier time w/ it the 2nd & 3rd time.  

 

I'm glad you figured out something that works for you & your dh.  thumb.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by salr View Post

Just mentioning that I'm a feminist and I share childcare with my spouse and daycare provider while I work out of the home.  I pump. 

 

I think you were just talking about what you did and what the basis for your decision was.  I wanted to point out that being a feminist and having others help with childcare doesn't necessarily mean that formula is the best option. For me and my family, breast milk was the best option.

 

<nodding>

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Formula is better than starvation.

 

There is a list of reasons when breast is not the best. It is the reality. Not everyone can afford screened donor milk


Formula will never be like BM , but it is a better alternative than many other things.

 

If we are talking about the difference between life & death, at the time, yes, artificial milk is better than death.  But, I want better than mere survival for myself, my children, my dh & all the other individuals who make it earthside.  

 

Again, breastfeeding is not best, it's normal.  Do you not agree w/ that?  Or are you just going to choose to not respond to this again?

 

And, are you saying that only "screened donor milk," is acceptable human milk for a baby to consume if not from their own mother?  What about wet nursing?  What other things in artificial milk better than?  Death? Yes.  What screening process does artificial milk go through before it is turned into artificial milk?  Do you know what meds the cows have had?  What pesticides have been used on what they're fed?  What chemicals they use in the space where they are housed?  

 

Since a person can not reach their full potential & full health getting something that was made in a factory vs. what comes from the human body, I will never advocate for artificial milk as the first choice or even second or third.  And, since I have personal experience suffering because I was not breastfed, it is highly annoying for me to read others making it sound like it does not matter whether someone is bf'd or not.  Again, if it doesn't matter whether artificial milk is used or a child is nursed, then it also wouldn't matter if the they were fed gruel or kool aid or iced tea or kombucha or just water.  Logic, baby. 

 

Sus


Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
mama24-7 is online now  
#15 of 22 Old 07-06-2013, 03:53 PM
 
marsupial-mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Omg, I said "As a feminist who shares childcare with my spouse I know formula was the best option for us."

FOR US

I did NOT say 'feminists should use formula.'
marsupial-mom is offline  
#16 of 22 Old 07-06-2013, 05:00 PM
 
PrimordialMind's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 327
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsupial-mom View Post

Omg, I said "As a feminist who shares childcare with my spouse I know formula was the best option for us."

FOR US

I did NOT say 'feminists should use formula.'

No, you didn't say "feminists should use formula" but if you re-read your statement you will see that you are saying feminists who share childcare with their spouse would choose to formula feed. People commented saying that they are also feminists who share childcare with their spouse and they don't formula feed. Do you see how prefacing your statement with those two characteristics led to people who share those characteristics to comment? If you truly wanted your statment to be about you and you alone then don't add characteristics that other people share and expect them not to comment and argue against your statement.

As for my humble opinion, I wish people wouldn't get their egos so involved when it comes to breastfeeding. You are not superior to mothers who formula feed and your kids are not superior to kids who were formula feed. Yes, there are health benefits for kids who breastfeed but that does not mean you should feel superior because of it. I've seen this so many times, its not even funny. Rarely will someone admit they are acting this way, but its not difficult to see thats what they believe. I am sick of it because it breaks my heart to hear moms feel so terribly bad about not being able to breastfeed-whether its physiologically impossible or the circumstances made their milk dry up or never come in or its just simply too darn hard. These women shouldn't feel so awful, they shouldn't feel the need to berate themselves for their perceived inadequacy and spend months trying everything they can to make it work, reading comments and articles that only serve to make them feel worse. I think, at this point, at least in this part of the world, women know that breastfeeding is better. We dont need it drilled into our brains. The superiority complex surrounding it hurts women more than helps because those who want to breastfeed and can will do it, those who can and dont want to will probably be put off by the egocentric attitude and those who want to and cant just feel bad. Also, there shouldn't be a contest over how long you breastfeed for, that also hurts women. Every child is different, every mother is different, this translates into different needs and abilities.
PrimordialMind is offline  
#17 of 22 Old 07-06-2013, 05:23 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I know you attribute a lot of your health problems to choices your mother made when you were small, mama24-7, but a lot of other mothers also make those choices and their kids don't have the issues you have. So while it may be a problem for a few people it's hardly a cut-and-dried case of formula leads to digestive problems. 

 

In my line of work it's hard to pump at work. I did it anyway because I am very stubborn, but I have to admit for my next baby I am balancing the pros of nursing with the cons of having to pump at work. I spoke with a colleague who went straight to formula for these reasons as well as the advantages of being able to share feedings with her spouse. She herself was formula-fed, and said that people make comments about formula-fed babies not being as smart and being more sickly, but she responds that she's rarely sick and she has a doctoral degree so thinks she's smart enough. 

 

Each person/family is a sample size of one in an uncontrolled experiment. All we can do is what is best for us and our family at the time where we are, and we can't know what the outcome would have been if we'd made a different choice. Which also means, for anyone who blames their or their child's health problems on formula, you might have had those problems anyway even if you'd breastfed, and there's no way to know now. 

erigeron is offline  
#18 of 22 Old 07-06-2013, 07:49 PM
 
mama24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: with the dust bunnies
Posts: 2,447
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by marsupial-mom View Post

Omg, I said "As a feminist who shares childcare with my spouse I know formula was the best option for us."

FOR US

I did NOT say 'feminists should use formula.'

 

Who said you said that?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimordialMind View Post


No, you didn't say "feminists should use formula" but if you re-read your statement you will see that you are saying feminists who share childcare with their spouse would choose to formula feed. People commented saying that they are also feminists who share childcare with their spouse and they don't formula feed. Do you see how prefacing your statement with those two characteristics led to people who share those characteristics to comment? If you truly wanted your statment to be about you and you alone then don't add characteristics that other people share and expect them not to comment and argue against your statement.

As for my humble opinion, I wish people wouldn't get their egos so involved when it comes to breastfeeding. You are not superior to mothers who formula feed and your kids are not superior to kids who were formula feed. Yes, there are health benefits for kids who breastfeed but that does not mean you should feel superior because of it. I've seen this so many times, its not even funny. Rarely will someone admit they are acting this way, but its not difficult to see thats what they believe. I am sick of it because it breaks my heart to hear moms feel so terribly bad about not being able to breastfeed-whether its physiologically impossible or the circumstances made their milk dry up or never come in or its just simply too darn hard. These women shouldn't feel so awful, they shouldn't feel the need to berate themselves for their perceived inadequacy and spend months trying everything they can to make it work, reading comments and articles that only serve to make them feel worse. I think, at this point, at least in this part of the world, women know that breastfeeding is better. We dont need it drilled into our brains. The superiority complex surrounding it hurts women more than helps because those who want to breastfeed and can will do it, those who can and dont want to will probably be put off by the egocentric attitude and those who want to and cant just feel bad. Also, there shouldn't be a contest over how long you breastfeed for, that also hurts women. Every child is different, every mother is different, this translates into different needs and abilities.

 

I'm not sure if your second paragraph is aimed at me but for the record, I don't feel like I'm superior to anyone because I've been successful at breastfeeding & I can't think of anyone I know who has who does feel that way but I imagine there could be someone.  I know that under different circumstances, I may not have been so lucky.  I too feel bad that grown adults beat themselves up over stuff but just like I don't blame someone else for how I feel (my emotions), I don't blame my success w/ breastfeeding for making someone else feel bad.  We choose our feelings & emotions.  I've said it before in this thread & elsewhere on MDC so I'm not going to go into it again.  People wouldn't feel so bad about so. many. things. if they didn't take everything personally.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

I know you attribute a lot of your health problems to choices your mother made when you were small, mama24-7, but a lot of other mothers also make those choices and their kids don't have the issues you have. So while it may be a problem for a few people it's hardly a cut-and-dried case of formula leads to digestive problems. 

 

In my line of work it's hard to pump at work. I did it anyway because I am very stubborn, but I have to admit for my next baby I am balancing the pros of nursing with the cons of having to pump at work. I spoke with a colleague who went straight to formula for these reasons as well as the advantages of being able to share feedings with her spouse. She herself was formula-fed, and said that people make comments about formula-fed babies not being as smart and being more sickly, but she responds that she's rarely sick and she has a doctoral degree so thinks she's smart enough. 

 

Each person/family is a sample size of one in an uncontrolled experiment. All we can do is what is best for us and our family at the time where we are, and we can't know what the outcome would have been if we'd made a different choice. Which also means, for anyone who blames their or their child's health problems on formula, you might have had those problems anyway even if you'd breastfed, and there's no way to know now. 

 

I'm okay w/ it if you don't believe me.  thumb.gif  I don't need you to.  You are correct, not everyone who has been artificially fed has suffered the same fate as me, and I'm grateful for that.  The world is pretty sick as it is; I'd hate to see it all as messed up as me!  And, in my mother's defense, she was not healthy when she had me.  But, like my own children, had I been normal fed, I would not be as bad off now as I am.  Had my children been ff'd, I know that they would not be as healthy as they are (even in their unhealthy states) and my youngest may be dead, since at 3 years & 364 days old, he still gets most of his nutrition from my milk since he can't eat much of anything.  gloomy.gif brokenheart.gif. And, I wonder how it is that you can think/believe that my digestive problems are not a part of the food that I was fed at a critical time in my development?  That's just not logical.  

 

I'm very sorry to hear, for you, your child & your family, that you may have to choose between your work & it's constraints & your child's feeding.  (I don't know what your job is, but perhaps nursing while you're together & not when you're apart?  I imagine you've thought of that already. winky.gif)  I consider myself very lucky that I've never had to contemplate such a decision.  My dh did say when our oldest was only 6 weeks or so old, 10+ years ago, that he didn't want to breastfeed again if we had another (long story).  If he'd stuck to that, then I wouldn't have had more children.  And, you'll never get me to agree w/ the "I was ff'd & I'm fine," reasoning for people ff'ing.  That's great!  How fine are you really?  And, just because you are doesn't not guarantee your child will be.  No, neither does bf'ing but it does help the odds.

 

You are correct about the uncontrolled experiment: artificial milk is one big uncontrolled experiment.  Everyone around us has something, a disease, a syndrome, chronic something - smoking, alcohol, compulsive buying, etc..  Everyone.  Yet no one wants to admit, even on the stinking MDC lactivism forum that breastfeeding is normal & all else has consequences.  I live these consequences every day, regardless of whether others want to believe it or not.  We are a failed part of this terrible experiment.

 

Sus


Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
mama24-7 is online now  
#19 of 22 Old 07-06-2013, 09:18 PM
 
Jefinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 79
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Breastfeeding should be the norm. That said, it is none of my business if someone formula feeds, and I don't make a judgment call. When I had my oldest, I was 19, had only known one person to breastfeed, and thought I couldn't. (I gave it about a week of a half hearted trial.) Whenever I would read about how terrible formula was vs. how wonderful breastmilk was, it would only serve to make me feel guilty.

 

That very kid is now 17, and is one of the healthiest kids I've ever known. Seriously. She gets a cold about once every couple years. Now, would she have been even healthier with breastmilk. I don't know. I know that I can't go back and fix it.

 

My second, I breastfed, but there were some obstacles. I was only able to breastfeed for around 6 months (My mom died, which was stressful... I went back to work, and I learned that I can't pump worth a darn... Then, I got pregnant when she was 3 months old... She just liked the bottle more than the breast, and I gave up.)

 

My third, I breastfed, and I was able to be home with him (day care costs would've killed me, anyway). I never gave him a bottle, and I just nursed away. We were successful, and I'm glad for it. However, my second two aren't healthier than the first.

 

All that to say, that I still believe that breastfeeding your child is how it should be. But when circumstances stand in your way (choice, physical issues, etc...), it's not the end of the world. I'm not going to judge you for it. I think the author is mostly correct (though I don't know enough about the real statistics), even though the title of the article infuriated me a bit.

Jefinner is offline  
#20 of 22 Old 07-06-2013, 09:34 PM
 
sunawu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Nothing in life is ever black and white.

sunawu is offline  
#21 of 22 Old 07-06-2013, 11:05 PM
 
Jennyanydots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,380
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The article was an interesting read. Though she did make some good points, I didn't like how disinterested and resentful the author came off near her conclusion, not only of breastfeeding in general but of her child. I try not to judge others for their choices, but in the privacy of my own mind I've thought people I've known selfish for choosing FF out of fear of "ruining" their breasts or feeling uncomfortable with the idea of nursing. I have a friend who struggled for months to breastfeed, with the help of lactation consultants, doctors, supplemental nursing systems and donor milk (mostly mine), and I saw how hard that was for her. I didn't judge her for a second when she stopped trying and went to exclusive FF. I think most people who choose to FF probably fall somewhere between the two extremes of eschewing BF out of vanity and struggling to BF before giving up- and while I might have opinions if I'm privy to the details of one's individual story, it's really none of my business. I don't think in the end the difference is crucial.

It's very important to me, personally, however. I'd rather choose not have a baby at all than have a baby I knew I couldn't or wouldn't breastfeed. As a feminist and a partner who shares childcare with my DP, and as a mammal who carries and nurtures a baby through pregnancy and beyond, I choose to breastfeed.

chicken3.gif mama to two teens and two tots partners.gif madly in love with DP guitar.gif

Jennyanydots is offline  
#22 of 22 Old 08-02-2013, 01:25 AM
 
Ireadtomuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

As someone who got a little bored studying history formula was invented primarily as a way to try and keep parent's from wet nursing their children out to mother's far enough away that they couldn't see the child on a regular basis and to help with foundling's (infants abandoned by poor mothers or infants whose mothers didn't survive childbirth) Formula has no antibodies not varying fat contents and the difference between average expected weight of a formula and breastfed baby shows that they expect higher weights for length for formula fed infant's. 

Ireadtomuch is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off