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#31 of 79 Old 10-04-2013, 04:43 PM
 
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I would like to respectfully disagree with the whole idea of getting more laws about breastfeeding on the books.  Breasfeeding is important but it is best supported and encouraged locally, by family members and friends and random strangers smiling at other random strangers who breastfeed in public.  Getting a government agency involved is only going to add red tape to the process.  

The fact is, the la leche league is free.  As is internet access with the multitude of research and resources that are on here.  New moms don't need the government to tell them to do one more thing (in that cute formula bag are more papers than I've had to read since college).  New moms need their communities to reach out and help them see that breastfeeding is healthy AND normal.  Post a flyer for a la leche meeting on a library bulletin board.  Talk to other new moms about breastfeeding's benefits.  That will do more than paying a government worker to pay an insurance company to pay someone to keep track of what breastfeeding support options are so that the whole system can then pay for lactation consultants that many new moms don't want. 

Breastfeeding or lack thereof is a cultural issue and I think we need to attack it that way.  Formula is not normal!   Spread the word! smile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gifsmile.gif

I understand what you are saying, but the point of this is Lactation consultants are health care providers who deserve to be paid for thier work. I'm s LLL leader AND an IBCLC and there are mamy things IBCLCs know and can evaluate and set up treatments that are not on a LLL leader's Scope of Practice.

The AHCA isn't covering Profesional Lactation consultants on enough detail so that we can serve the needs of our clients properly so we can also be reimbursed for our expertise and our time.
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#32 of 79 Old 10-04-2013, 04:54 PM
 
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There is a lot government policy can do to help, though.

 

For instance, that "formula bag" you mentioned? In Canada, I didn't get one. It's not policy to give them out. Formula is available in the hospital for those who need it and no more. Also, all supplemented newborns in the hospital can be cup fed instead of bottle fed, which can help with latch. My hospital had that policy also.

 

The WHO has something called the "Baby Friendly Hospital Initiative" which is a bunch of policies for hospitals to adopt to be breastfeeding friendly. Governments can supply funding and training to hospitals and require they adopt the policy.

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#33 of 79 Old 10-04-2013, 05:16 PM
 
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What if the insurance companies offered some incentives to the doctors who encourage breastfeeding and maintained high breastfeeding rates among moms with babies?  Doctors should also be required to get enough training to be lactation consultants. I really do think it would make a difference if people got this information from their personal doctors vs. having to seek out a LC or someone else.  It makes it seem less important, kwim?  If women are hearing that breast is best from people they know, but formula is just fine from their doctor, who are they going to trust?

 

Just imagine if DOCTORS put the same emphasis and effort on breastfeeding as they do for vaccines?  

I know a lot of people think this, BUT, it takes three years of post graduate work to become a Board Certified Lactation Consultant plus sitting for 8 hour Board Examinations every 5 to 10 years and 75 hours of continuing education credits in Lactation every 5 years! That would make Med School 7 years long, plus an other Board, and it just isn't feasible. Some doctors do become IBCLCs, but it isn't within the reach of most. It's a LONG difficult program! It's a Master's Certification Program and that just isn't going to fly with most doctors, who do need to get working in less than, say 12 years after they start Med School, which it would take IF they were all IBCLCs.

 

What needs to happen is that physicians need to know WHERE AND WHEN their Scope of Practice ends and WHEN and WHOM TO refer to!  If every MD who runs into a Lactation issue knows to refer to an IBCLC and knows the LCs in his or her area and is willing to refer instead of just guessing how to solve a problem he knows nothing about all patients would be served better. Some doctors do, they may have IBCLCs on staff, they may have working relationships with agencies like the one I work for and they may know and refer to Private Practice IBCLCs in their area. That is going to be a more workable solution than expecting every MD in the USA to earn a IBCLC that would take him or her an additional 3- 5 years of their lives. They don't need to know everything about breastfeeding, they just need to know when and whom to refer the issues to.

 

The IBLCE (International Board of Lactation Consultant Examiners) web page is down for updates, but this site has an overview of what is required to even sit for Boards. http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Lactation-Consultant

 

In the 20+ years I have been practicing, I have only known one IBCLC who did not have either a Bachelor's Degree or a Registered Nursing Degree before sitting for her boards, obtaining her patient contact hours, getting her 90 Education Hours etc. This woman was a truly amazing woman (who had been in nursing school when she became pregnant with her first child and had to drop out) who did much for the cause of Lactation. However, she, at the time, needed to obtain 1,000 hours of Clinical Practice (patient contact hours) and also take college level Biology, Chemistry, Medical Terminology, Anatomy and Physiology, Child Development, Fetal Development and more, as one would when one majors in a medically related or nursing field in college.)  What I'm saying is Lactation Consulting is ONE career, Medical Practice is an OTHER career, there are people who do both, but as both are time consuming in both educational preparation and sustaining the credentials of each, few people can do both. Lactation Consulting isn't something someone just decides to do one day and starts doing it a few weeks or months later, It's an entire career that takes years of education, planning and training.

 

I don't think "requiring" MDs to all become IBCLCs is going to work, nor will it ever be implemented. Plus, then what are those of us that have dedicated our lives to Lactation completely and are NOT doctors going to do? :)

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#34 of 79 Old 10-04-2013, 05:29 PM
 
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fayebond, I just wanted to add one thing. You said: " That will do more than paying a government worker to pay an insurance company to pay someone to keep track of what breastfeeding support options are so that the whole system can then pay for lactation consultants that many new moms don't want. "

 

There isn't a "government worker" who is doing this or who are going to be doing this. This isn't part of anybody's plan.

 

What is needed is for insurance companies and Medicaid to be willing to pay Board Certified Lactation Consultants, as they pay MDs and other health care workers if and when mothers need a Lactation Consultant's help.

 

I can assure you that if all women got at least a preliminary IBCLC visit within the first week or two after the baby's birth, we'd have a much higher breastfeeding success rate and more women would breastfeed and infant and child health would improve in this country.

 

I can also assure you that few, if any new moms don't either need some help or would like a consultation to make sure everything is going well. If I had an extra dollar for every woman who has said to me, "I wish I had called you earlier." Or "I wish I had called you with my first baby. I gave up after a week because I was getting so much conflicting information from so many people and couldn't make it work!" I'd be a rich IBCLC. (I'm not rich, BTW. ;) )

 

I just wanted to add that "a smiling stranger" or most "family members" aren't going to be able to diagnose, refer and set up a treatment plan for a baby with a submucosal Ankyloglossia (tongue tie) or a mom with Clinical Ductal Insufficiency, or many other situations where a professional is needed. Yes, it's nice when people smile, and community support is neeeded but part of the problem is that so many women are getting bombarded with SO much improper and/ or outdated information that often breastfeeding becomes nearly impossible as one "opinion" after an other comes in.

 

For a new mom to consult with one of us and be able to say to those "smiling strangers" and "family members" who are telling the mom 1000 different things at once, "My Lactation Consultant and I have a strategy plan in place. Her information is a little different than what you are telling me to do. I'll decide what to do about this myself based on the information I got during my consultation." is a relief from the bombardment of often unwanted and erroneous information so many new mothers are subjected to. And LLL is a great organization and helps millions of women, but some situations are more complicated than what can be handled by a volunteer. I've worked at LLL headquarters as a counselor, I've been a LLL leader and I'm an IBCLC, so I am aware there are major differences in what each can do.

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#35 of 79 Old 10-06-2013, 11:34 AM
 
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Not to be argumentative here- but I don't think anyone has suggested what is obvious at least to me.  Quit giving out formula via WIC.  Give a pump and call it a day.  Should there be the rare but real case of NOT being able to BF- then have the dr write an rx for formula or the parent can purchase the formula.  This is not rocket science and more mandates and laws and whatnot are not the answer.  You want healthier babies and moms?   Quit giving them the crap that makes them unhealthy.

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#36 of 79 Old 10-06-2013, 11:40 AM
 
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Not to be argumentative here- but I don't think anyone has suggested what is obvious at least to me.  Quit giving out formula via WIC.  Give a pump and call it a day.  Should there be the rare but real case of NOT being able to BF- then have the dr write an rx for formula or the parent can purchase the formula.  This is not rocket science and more mandates and laws and whatnot are not the answer.  You want healthier babies and moms?   Quit giving them the crap that makes them unhealthy.

And I ask why should the government be able to decide how moms who are struggling financially feed their children.
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#37 of 79 Old 10-06-2013, 11:53 AM
 
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I think I mentioned it earlier. That is how it already is in my Canadian hospital. You don't get formula samples routinely. It does help breast feeding rates.

TCMoulton is being very alarmist. Poor moms are responsible for feeing their children for eighteen years, whether they get a free can of formula or not. Avoiding advertising formula to poor mothers is not screwing them over. With breast freeding well established, I fed my baby for free for six months, saving scads of money.

Besides, the nurses in our hospital had cans of formula on hand just in case. Moms in need could say, "oh, hey, I'm planning on formula feeding. Do you have any samples you can throw me?" And the nurses would just give them a can or two from the cupboard.
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#38 of 79 Old 10-06-2013, 11:56 AM
 
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Not to be argumentative here- but I don't think anyone has suggested what is obvious at least to me.  Quit giving out formula via WIC.  Give a pump and call it a day.  Should there be the rare but real case of NOT being able to BF- then have the dr write an rx for formula or the parent can purchase the formula.  This is not rocket science and more mandates and laws and whatnot are not the answer.  You want healthier babies and moms?   Quit giving them the crap that makes them unhealthy.

 

This is incredibly judgmental. There are so many moms who have no family support for breastfeeding, no partner, have to go back to work asap and don't feel that they can adequately pump and work. The idea that every mom can breastfeed is great, but honestly it's not feasible for some people. The idea that you can "choose" to stay at home after your baby is born or the idea that you can "stand up for your right to pump at work" is great for those of us in upper class, middle class, and lower middle class existances. Most people on wic aren't in those shoes, and the idea that they should just be given a pump and expected to "deal" is absurd if they came from a family of formula feeding people, have to work 40+ hours a week on minimum wage just to cover the bills, have no support, and are already in a really hard situation.

 

The fact is that just because you have chosen to be really dedicated to something, doesnt mean that the government should choose how other people's babies get fed.

 

As far as the evils of formula go, do you have any idea what people would be feeding their kids if they didn't have access to infant formula? Take a look back in history, you'll see what babies are fed when they dont breastfeed but have no access to formula. 

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#39 of 79 Old 10-06-2013, 12:43 PM
 
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Not routinely advertising to moms is not the same as forbidding them from formula feeding. People on this thread are making it seem like adopting a baby-friendly hospital policy is like the government FORCING you to breastfeed. It's so ridiculous that it's hard to believe what I'm reading.

Also, the way some people talk, it sounds like hospitals give out like 12 months worth of formula per mom. Don't they just give out a can or two, get people hooked on a brand, then they're on their own?
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#40 of 79 Old 10-07-2013, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The employees at hospitals give free formula to new moms because the hospital gets a break from the formula manufacturer on the price it pays for formula. Some people would call that a kickback. When a first time mom receives free formula from a health care professional on the way out of the hospital it sends the message that formula feeding must be the best method of feeding the baby. There are also some social and cultural issues at play here. Many of the young moms on WIC live in households where formula feeding has been the norm for a generation or two. Those moms don't have people encouraging them to breastfeed.

 

As far as WIC is concerned, the funding for the WIC breastfeeding peer counselor program (which was very successful) has been drastically reduced. The same is true for the WIC tv ad campaign which promoted breastfeeding (which was also another successful program). I suspect the lobbyists for the formula companies were behind those changes. Fewer breastfeeding moms = more formula sales.

 

Another issue to consider here is that a large percentage of WIC moms are covered by Medicaid. The U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services was given the task of writing the regulations that insurance companies would follow in order to fulfill the requirement by Congress that the insurance companies promote and support breastfeeding as part of the Affordable Care Act. The Secretary of DHHS turned to the Institute of Medicine for advice on how to best achieve that goal. In the IOM study "Clinical Preventive Services for Women" the IOM wrote this "In an analysis of state Medicaid provisions, the Henry J. Kaiser Family foundation found that 25 states cover breastfeeding education services, 15 states cover individual lactation consultants, and 31 states cover equipment rentals, such as breast pumps." Even though the IOM knew how inconsistent health care coverage was under Medicaid, this was their recommendation to the Secretary of DHHS regarding the guidelines for insurers to promote and support breastfeeding in the Affordable Care Act: "The committee recommends for consideration as a preventive service for women: comprehensive lactation support and counseling and costs of renting breastfeeding equipment. A trained provider should provide counseling services to all pregnant women and to those in the postpartum period to ensure the successful initiation and duration of breastfeeding."

 

As noted in early posts, that language is woefully inadequate. It doesn't state what qualifications a "trained provider" must have. It doesn't say who will decide what kind of breast pump is provided. It doesn't offer a definition of "comprehensive lactation support and counseling." Even some insurance companies who used to provide good quality breast pumps have now switched to cheaper inappropriate breast pumps because the regulations are so lax. By the way, the U.S. Secretary of DHHS is Kathleen Sebelius.

 

One more thing, the Institute of Medicine wrote the following in the introduction to the report noted above: "Given the magnitude of change, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services charged the Institute of Medicine with reviewing what preventive services are important to women's health and well-being and then recommending which of these should be considered in the development of comprehensive guidelines." The IOM committee came up far short of what was expected of them. Their recommendation has done little or nothing to "promote and support" breastfeeding!

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#41 of 79 Old 10-08-2013, 02:46 PM
 
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This is incredibly judgmental. There are so many moms who have no family support for breastfeeding, no partner, have to go back to work asap and don't feel that they can adequately pump and work. The idea that every mom can breastfeed is great, but honestly it's not feasible for some people. The idea that you can "choose" to stay at home after your baby is born or the idea that you can "stand up for your right to pump at work" is great for those of us in upper class, middle class, and lower middle class existances. Most people on wic aren't in those shoes, and the idea that they should just be given a pump and expected to "deal" is absurd if they came from a family of formula feeding people, have to work 40+ hours a week on minimum wage just to cover the bills, have no support, and are already in a really hard situation.

 

The fact is that just because you have chosen to be really dedicated to something, doesnt mean that the government should choose how other people's babies get fed.

 

As far as the evils of formula go, do you have any idea what people would be feeding their kids if they didn't have access to infant formula? Take a look back in history, you'll see what babies are fed when they dont breastfeed but have no access to formula. 

 

I am sorry- I was under the impression this thread was about how to get more moms to breastfeed?  I agree with you on the lack of support.  But unfortunately the government does decide how those babies get fed by giving their moms free formula.  I think there would be more moms who would breast feed if given a good pump instead.  I get tough situations - and for you to imply that I don't is ridiculous.  The government gets a say in the nourishment of these babies because it is footing the bill.  The government gets no say when they aren't. 

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#42 of 79 Old 10-08-2013, 07:27 PM
 
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I don't understand how women get zero maternity leave in this country and are still expected to somehow breastfeed? I was going to have to fight for 6 weeks unpaid leave, then somehow try to get breaks to feed my child every couple of hours upon return. There's no way my employer would have let me take 3 or 4 breaks a day, and there was no where on site to pump except a restroom stall. Until this country is more friendly toward new moms and families, it seems like touting breastfeeding is just lip service.

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#43 of 79 Old 10-09-2013, 07:46 AM
 
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Part of me can't comprehend a  lack of breastfeeding support. I had my baby in a standard hospital.  Policy was that ALL new moms couldn't leave the hospital without going to a breastfeeding class and meeting with a lactation consultant, regardless of whether or not you stated you planned on formula.

 

(In fact, my cousin, who adopted, had such a situation.  Not with her, but her baby's birth mom gave birth at the same hospital.  They had to fight with the nurses over whether or not the class was necessary since baby was immediately signed over.)

 

Same hospital had the policy that all its midwives and obstetricians working with an expecting mother had to all but force them to attend a more in-depth breastfeeding course while pregnant.  Also gave coupons for the breastfeeding shop right in the hospital (place rented/sold pumps, sold bras, accessories, etc.)

 

Heck, if hospitals took such policies as a matter of course...

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#44 of 79 Old 10-09-2013, 08:12 AM
 
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I don't understand how women get zero maternity leave in this country and are still expected to somehow breastfeed? I was going to have to fight for 6 weeks unpaid leave, then somehow try to get breaks to feed my child every couple of hours upon return. There's no way my employer would have let me take 3 or 4 breaks a day, and there was no where on site to pump except a restroom stall. Until this country is more friendly toward new moms and families, it seems like touting breastfeeding is just lip service.

The Family Leave Act is FEDERAL LAW, it was ILLEGAL for your employer to make you have to "fight" for 6 weeks unpaid leave. You were legally entitled to at least 12 weeks leave, with your job being held AND your insurance in place. http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/ Please visit this Federal Site for what your RIGHTS as a worker are.


Many states DO have laws in place that require a woman has a "Clean, sanitary private place to pump human milk that has an outlet and is not next to a toilet." All these states also REQUIRE that moms can have the breaks, which don't take that long and some women can even do at their desks while they work. In a standard 8 hour day, 2-3 pumpings, one in the morning (coffee break) one at lunch, and one in the afternoon (afternoon coffee break) is all most women need so that they can pump. I've worked with virtually no women on an 8 hour day who need four pumping breaks a day, and few even need three. Most can get by with two.

 

I worked with a woman some years ago, who worked on a all male road construction crew. (This was before our legislation was passed requiring a "safe sanitary place to pump that is not in the vicinity of a toilet.")  She took her pump to work along with her power pack and blue ice cooler, and pumped her milk 3-4 times in her TEN to TWELVE hour shifts in a little Porta Potty on the Highway. Not ideal by any means, but she told me, "I'm not one to make excuses for what needs to be done. I just figure out a way to do it."  She was a single mom and a Construction Worker and one tough, resourceful chick! :bgbounce She pumped for her baby for well over a year and nursed for even longer than that. She needed to work, her job was road construction and she figured out a way to make it work, I'm not crazy about women pumping in toilets, but this is at least an option, IF really one has no other.  NO employer can stop someone from using the bathroom. Before our laws were enacted a knew a LOT of women who used "potty breaks" to pump when they felt they had no other choice. Our laws in many states require women be given places that are NOT next to toilets and those that have outlets and now no one in our state HAS to resort to this. But, I applaud the women who did whatever it took back then!     

 

I have worked with women who have had their babies brought to them at work in order to breastfeed, and others who have taken advantage of the Family Leave Act which is Federal Law and REQUIRES your employer to hold your job for a least 12 weeks after the birth of a baby, an adoption (many women who adopt breastfeed) or to allow them to take time off to care for a sick relative. It's LAW that every employer has to obey Family Leave Act.

 

In the states that have Pumping Laws, those laws weren't just "given" to us, we worked like dogs (myself included despite the fact that I was a SAHM at the time they were enacted and while I was part of the push to get those laws enacted) to get those laws through the state legislature.

 

Women who live in states where there are no laws retain the right for women, many of whom are good, valued employees, to negotiate with their employers to get these rights and to band together with others to get these laws enacted in their states.

 

We did it, other states have done it, it wasn't easy, but the breastfeeding rate among women who work outside the home has never been higher in IL since these laws went into effect.

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#45 of 79 Old 10-09-2013, 09:42 AM
 
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The FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) only applies to employers with 50 or more employees.

 

I don't like this at all... "Policy was that ALL new moms couldn't leave the hospital without going to a breastfeeding class and meeting with a lactation consultant, regardless of whether or not you stated you planned on formula."

 

What's up with that? Do you all agree with this? I'd go tell the hospital staff to shove that class up their asses. No one is going to make me do ANYTHING. This is BS. I nursed my kids and agree that breastfeeding is what is best. However, making people do ANYTHING is WRONG... whether you agree with it or not.

 

"Same hospital had the policy that all its midwives and obstetricians working with an expecting mother had to all but force them to attend a more in-depth breastfeeding course while pregnant.  Also gave coupons for the breastfeeding shop right in the hospital (place rented/sold pumps, sold bras, accessories, etc.)"

 

Where is this hospital???? Is this a good idea? NO. I could see this having the complete opposite effect of its intent. I'd take the coupons though.

 

"I don't understand how women get zero maternity leave in this country and are still expected to somehow breastfeed?"

 

That's not true at all. Is this a blanket statement, or are you just speaking about your personal experience? Maternity leave is offered in this country. If there is somewhere where it isn't, get a new job. Your employer has nothing to do with how you decide to feed your kid. You choose to have children. The how, why, when, where you feed your kids is on YOU. Your employer is not responsible to help you figure out what you are going to do. We all know what the laws are for FMLA, breastfeeding in public, pumping at work, etc, but other than that, you need to figure all that stuff out. I'm tired of this mentality.

 

"But unfortunately the government does decide how those babies get fed by giving their moms free formula.  I think there would be more moms who would breast feed if given a good pump instead."

 

Well, breastfeeding is free also. So, instead of giving free formula give free breast pumps instead? That would also be the government making a choice for someone about how their babies are fed, right? How about offering both and allowing a mother the choice.

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#46 of 79 Old 10-09-2013, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I first want to acknowledge that there are some very legitimate reasons why some moms formula feed. Some of those moms end up formula feeding because they are not receiving the help they need to start breastfeeding and stick with it. That's what this thread is all about.

The breastfeeding support provided through Medicaid is very limited and is very inconsistent from one state to the next, so the impact Medicaid has on breastfeeding is minimal.

The WIC Program has been encouraging women to breastfeed for years. However, it seems like whenever they come up with a new method to promote breastfeeding which has some success, like WIC breastfeeding peer counselors and WIC breastfeeding tv ad campaign, then the lobbyists for the formula companies wine and dine a few key people in Congress and the next thing you know the funding for those programs has been cut. Yes, the free formula provided by the WIC Program probably entices some moms to formula feed before they have given breastfeeding a fair chance. But in those cases there are often numerous issues the mom is dealing with (teen moms, finishing school, no family support, no support from the father, poverty, etc.) and quite frankly the choice whether to breastfeed or formula feed doesn't have the same significance to those moms as it does for you and me.

Also sharing the blame for low breastfeeding rates in the U.S. are the health care professionals. The list of health care professional organizations that strongly promote breastfeeding is too long to list here. Even though the organization itself strongly endorses breastfeeding, its members don't always fully support the endorsement. For example, professional nurses' associations endorse breastfeeding as best, and yet nurses give away free formula gift bags to new moms in the hospitals. Doctors are also members of professional organizations that endorse breastfeeding as best, and yet doctors often don't take nearly enough time to talk with their pregnant patients about breastfeeding. To those health care professionals I say this: if you're not going to lead, at least don't stand in the way.

There are also those who love to talk, but fail to act, aka: politicians. Congress noted the importance of preventive health services for women in the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). Instead of writing the regulation needed to "promote and support" breastfeeding themselves, they passed the buck to the U.S. Secretary of DHHS. Even though the DHHS has been encouraging women to breastfeed for years, for some reason the thousands of people who work for the DHHS couldn't write the breastfeeding support regulations for the insurance companies without first consulting with the Institute of Medicine.

It's really tough to understand what the Institute of Medicine was thinking when they studied the breastfeeding support issue and made their recommendation to the Secretary of DHHS. Here are 3 quotes from the IOM report:
1. "After being discharged from the hospital, mothers may have no means of identifying or obtaining the skilled support needed to address their concerns about lactation and breastfeeding; furthermore, barriers to reimbursement for needed lactation support and services may exist."
2. "Several studies have found gaps between providers' intentions surrounding breastfeeding counseling and their training, experience, and practice in supporting patients with breastfeeding."
3. "...clinicians' perceptions of the counseling they provided on breastfeeding did not match their patients' perceptions of the counseling received." "...it was found that among mothers whose prenatal clinical stated that they always or usually discussed breastfeeding with their patients, only 16 percent of mothers indicated that breastfeeding had been discussed during their prenatal visits."


So what was the IOM's recommendation to the DHHS? "The committee recommends for consideration as a preventive service for women: comprehensive lactation support and counseling and costs of renting breastfeeding equipment. A trained provider should provide counseling services to all pregnant women and to those in the postpartum period to ensure the successful initiation and duration of breastfeeding." How could the IOM possibly have thought that their recommendation would be a solution to the 3 problems (listed above) which were in the report they prepared for the DHHS???

To review... There is universal agreement that breastfeeding is the best method of feeding infants... however... Medicaid, a government health insurance provider, is of little or no help with breastfeeding support. Funding to the WIC breastfeeding support programs are cut whenever they experience some success. Congress is under the control of the formula company lobbyists so they aren't any help. The Institute of Medicine has a problem connecting the dots in their own report and thus their recommendation to the DHHS is pointless. And finally, the secretary of DHHS (Kathleen Sebelius) has been unwilling or unable to put in place a detailed set of meaningful guidelines that health insurance companies will follow under Obamacare in order to increase breastfeeding rates in the U.S. We are on the verge of squandering the best opportunity we've had at increasing breastfeeding rates in the U.S. We need our leaders to lead!!!
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#47 of 79 Old 10-09-2013, 12:29 PM
 
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 The FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) only applies to employers with 50 or more employees.

 Well observed.  Too many people forget that ruling.  Which, having seen the plights of small businesses, I agree with,

 

Quote:
 

I don't like this at all... "Policy was that ALL new moms couldn't leave the hospital without going to a breastfeeding class and meeting with a lactation consultant, regardless of whether or not you stated you planned on formula."

 

What's up with that? Do you all agree with this? I'd go tell the hospital staff to shove that class up their asses. No one is going to make me do ANYTHING. This is BS. I nursed my kids and agree that breastfeeding is what is best. However, making people do ANYTHING is WRONG... whether you agree with it or not.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I see your point (I'm very libertarian and believe people should be able to choose) and I do agree with you to a point.  I recall being, if not exactly annoyed, wondering what the big deal was. 

 

HOWEVER, I was also aware of this policy when I selected the hospital.  Meaning the choice was entirely mine. 

 

I would have the hospital amend the necessity of the class to those who declared they would be breastfeeding rather than making the formula-choosers suffer through it, but I also included this check-out class on the same level as other policies (watching the PURPLE crying DVD, for example).  That is, let's make sure we send these people out with some idea of what they are doing.  I prefer the policy to a let's-not-mention breastfeeding approach. 

 

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"Same hospital had the policy that all its midwives and obstetricians working with an expecting mother had to all but force them to attend a more in-depth breastfeeding course while pregnant.  Also gave coupons for the breastfeeding shop right in the hospital (place rented/sold pumps, sold bras, accessories, etc.)"

 

Where is this hospital???? Is this a good idea? NO. I could see this having the complete opposite effect of its intent. I'd take the coupons though.

 

Again, still partially agreeing with you, in what specific ways do you see this backfiring?  I found the accessibility of the class to be extremely beneficial.  To be relate more of my experience, I merely had my doctor continually mentioning the class on each visit.  The hospital, if you're curious, is in Logan, Utah. 

 

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 Maternity leave is offered in this country. If there is somewhere where it isn't, get a new job. Your employer has nothing to do with how you decide to feed your kid. You choose to have children. The how, why, when, where you feed your kids is on YOU. Your employer is not responsible to help you figure out what you are going to do. We all know what the laws are for FMLA, breastfeeding in public, pumping at work, etc, but other than that, you need to figure all that stuff out. I'm tired of this mentality.

 

Amen.  I really hate this entitlement mentality that the world must act to take away every little challenge of child-feeding from us. 

 

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Well, breastfeeding is free also. So, instead of giving free formula give free breast pumps instead? That would also be the government making a choice for someone about how their babies are fed, right? How about offering both and allowing a mother the choice.

Who is paying for the breastpumps?  Does everyone really need a breastpump?  Besides, most of the formula sent home is simply formula companies pushing samples.

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 HOWEVER, I was also aware of this policy when I selected the hospital.  Meaning the choice was entirely mine.

 

If you knew the hospital policy beforehand, then that is a whole different animal. If YOU made the choice to use that hospital anyway, then that's ok.

 

I would have the hospital amend the necessity of the class to those who declared they would be breastfeeding rather than making the formula-choosers suffer through it, but I also included this check-out class on the same level as other policies (watching the PURPLE crying DVD, for example).  That is, let's make sure we send these people out with some idea of what they are doing.  I prefer the policy to a let's-not-mention breastfeeding approach.

 

I just don't think people should be made to do anything... especially people who choose to do something one way, then are forced to take a class about something that is complete opposite of what they want to do.

 

Again, still partially agreeing with you, in what specific ways do you see this backfiring?  I found the accessibility of the class to be extremely beneficial.  To be relate more of my experience, I merely had my doctor continually mentioning the class on each visit.  The hospital, if you're curious, is in Logan, Utah.

 

The whole forcing issue again (had to all but force them to attend a more in-depth breastfeeding course while pregnant.). I just have a real problem with that approach. The whole backfiring thing, is more about me than anyone else. I'd still breastfeed, but I would have a real bad taste in my mouth over the whole lactivism movement if this happened to me.

 

Who is paying for the breastpumps?  Does everyone really need a breastpump?  Besides, most of the formula sent home is simply formula companies pushing samples.

 

I was just trying to make a point. The taxpayers would be paying for those "free" breastpumps, which isn't right. Does everyone really need one? Probably not. I did, but I paid for it myself.

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#49 of 79 Old 10-09-2013, 01:13 PM
 
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I think we think similarly erinmattsmom.

 

I also think I went on a small mental tangent on breast pumps.  I wound up with two free breast pumps (I'm one of those horrible Amazon Vine people) and was thrilled to have them... only to find I can't find a bottle nipple my daughter actually likes.  I'm not working, so it's not a big deal.  But I also had a co-worker back when who couldn't get her baby to take a bottle.  Daycare was down the street... she just headed off every now and then to nurse.  And this was with a very small non-profit office (we still think if we had bothered the boss enough, she could have kept the baby right in her office.)

 

My point being:  while breast pumps are awesome and certainly have their place, I think the battle cry of "everyone needs a breast pump!" is far from reality and shouldn't necessarily be the #1 consideration in breastfeeding support.  Because breast pumps... really aren't breastfeeding. 

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I think we think similarly erinmattsmom.

 

I also think I went on a small mental tangent on breast pumps.  I wound up with two free breast pumps (I'm one of those horrible Amazon Vine people) and was thrilled to have them... only to find I can't find a bottle nipple my daughter actually likes.  I'm not working, so it's not a big deal.  But I also had a co-worker back when who couldn't get her baby to take a bottle.  Daycare was down the street... she just headed off every now and then to nurse.  And this was with a very small non-profit office (we still think if we had bothered the boss enough, she could have kept the baby right in her office.)

 

My point being:  while breast pumps are awesome and certainly have their place, I think the battle cry of "everyone needs a breast pump!" is far from reality and shouldn't necessarily be the #1 consideration in breastfeeding support.  Because breast pumps... really aren't breastfeeding.

Yes, I agree!!!! :thumb

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I agree every new mother doesn't need a breast pump. In fact, I have found that sometimes the presence of a pump in the house when the baby is new (and the pump isn't medically necessary)  encourages the mom to "pump and put in in a bottle." Few mother's of healthy babies who go home with them need to do this in the early weeks. Moms of preterm babies or other babies who are put in the NICU (what is it with "low blood sugar" being diagnosed lately? I'm losing my mind with 50-75% of my clients' kids being dxed with this most dubious diagnosis.) need a pump.

 

Although there are rental places and many IBCLCs and even pharmacies who rent Hospital Quality breast pumps and in my area ALL the hospitals rent them. If mom isn't going to be leaving the baby after the baby gets home or if she is going to use a pump for less than 5 months, it's actually more economical to rent a pump. Home quality pumps (like the ubiquitous Pump In Style) have a motor life of "2 children or 3 years) then you NEED a new one. I can't tell you how may broken down, suctionless Pump In Styles I've had clients using that they borrowed from friends and sisters, got second hand or (gag) got on Ebay. That's bodily fluid flowing through those things,  please don't share these single patient use pumps!  Getting "a new kit" does nothing for the milk or the resulting fungus or mold or bacteria or viruses that can grow behind the diaphragm or in the actual motor of some of these Home Quality Pumps.

 

Only hospital quality pumps that use a closed system which prevents milk from entering the motor or the diaphragm can be shared, as NO bodily fluid can be exchanged, Basically, we're talking the Lactina Select or the Symphony. Plus these Real Hospital Quality Pumps can take abuse and can last through 100s of patients, not just one, like the Pump In Style. Don't get me wrong, the Pump In Style is a great little pump..... for ONE mother to use and NOT share or give away later. After 3 years or 2 kids, get rid of it, the motor will go and there's nothing you can do to prevent contamination!

 

As for the "50 or less employees." The company I work for has less than 50 employees, we can take a LOOOONG maternity leave and get our jobs back (heck, I took ELEVEN YEARS and got my job back :lactivist) plus there are some hospital quality pumps you can attach your kit to, or you can bring your own pump OR you can bring your baby or toddler to work in the office or are attending seminars, classes, training etc. Those of us who do home visits do not bring our children with us to do said home visits. Of course, some of us got 11 year old maternity leaves. 

 

There must be some way to appeal to the ethics and morality of Big Business (or small business.) I'm well aware that one cannot legislate morality, but think how many more GOOD quality employees companies will keep if they do ethical things, like uphold the Breastfeeding Laws intended for big businesses, even if they don't "have to."  When I worked at the La Leche League Head Office, we had pumps a pumping room or you could pump at your desk or in the conference room LONG before legislation was enacted and on some occasions we could bring our children to work. It CAN be done and usually it is only for the betterment of the company. Their employees miss less work because of sick children, they are less likely to quit due to child unfriendly environments and when employees are happy, they are more productive.

 

You would think companies would WANT their employees to have healthier children and one of the ways to attain that goal is to implement stuff that makes it easier for women to breastfeed. Of course, there are always women who can and DO flout the rules and do it anyway. When I first started in this field, it was in many places the ONLY way you could do it. I think to be a GREAT Mama you often have to be a rebel as well as very innovative.

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#52 of 79 Old 10-10-2013, 03:06 PM
 
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I think paid maternity leave would be the first thing that would be needed. At least for a portion of the leave for any woman that is working. I am on leave now for a newborn and I really don't know how I will keep this up when I go back to work, pumping while working will not be easy. And I am on leave because I can afford the pay cut, not everyone has that luxury.

Also if they are serious they would extend the FMLA guarantee for mothers to 6 months since that is how long they recommend you exclusively breastfeed.

Finally lactation consultant should be considered like any other medical service and be part of the benefits.
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Don't allow WIC to cover formula, instead, have lactation consultants at WIC offices to offer help to new moms, as well as offering prenatal information classes. But really, if the government wants to support breast feeding, it should stop paying for women to buy formula. WIC would also probably have to not allow the purchase of milk, or at least not when the children supported are still new born, because I'm sure people will just give their babies cows' milk instead of formula and instead of breast feeding. I have friends who think cows' milk is great for babies...my two cents!
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Breastfeeding does not reduce rate of asthma or obesity. It does not make IQ higher. It is also not easy for many people. Breastfeeding provides many other benefits and it is right way to feed a baby for many, but not all families.

 

Breastfeeding is awesome and I think it is great that federal government will help with LC and pumps . I sure could have used free help years ago!

 

I think the thing that would really make a difference in  breastfeeding rates in US is 1 year paid maternity leave. Good luck  making GOP and crazy Tea Party people to agree with it.

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#55 of 79 Old 10-11-2013, 06:33 PM
 
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I think the thing that would really make a difference in  breastfeeding rates in US is 1 year paid maternity leave. Good luck  making GOP and crazy Tea Party people to agree with it.

 

Oh, please. I know more Democrats against paid maternity leave than any other group. 

 

Furthermore, I wasn't aware of a whole bunch of any party trying to push through any sort of paid maternity leave bill. 

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Some people you are talking to are perhaps not beingbhonest to you about their political affiliations. As a dyed the wool Left Wing Democrat who has many similar thinking friends I know of NONE who are against more rights for workers, including at least some paid Maternity leave.

And, considering the Left got the first Family Leave Act passed (albeit watered down by the Right) I don't think there is any real argument about who's on the side of the Worker.

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Not to be argumentative here- but I don't think anyone has suggested what is obvious at least to me.  Quit giving out formula via WIC.  Give a pump and call it a day.  Should there be the rare but real case of NOT being able to BF- then have the dr write an rx for formula or the parent can purchase the formula.  This is not rocket science and more mandates and laws and whatnot are not the answer.  You want healthier babies and moms?   Quit giving them the crap that makes them unhealthy.

Many people think this. However you underestimat the will of women who for whatever reason are vehrmently against breast feeding. People would give unaltered cow's milk, watered down cereal, mashed egg, pureed meat ALL kinds of crap that is actually worse than formula. People did it in the past don't, they do it in places where formuls is only available via RX, like the Philippines and they'd do it here.

I have learned never to underestimate the will of people who start s lot of sentences with, "Well, a LOT of women just CAN'T breast feed you know. ..." EVERY FREAKIN TIME anyon mentions ANY benefit of breast feeding in any context.

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Some people you are talking to are perhaps not beingbhonest to you about their political affiliations. As a dyed the wool Left Wing Democrat who has many similar thinking friends I know of NONE who are against more rights for workers, including at least some paid Maternity leave.

And, considering the Left got the first Family Leave Act passed (albeit watered down by the Right) I don't think there is any real argument about who's on the side of the Worker.


I think you're not considering all the values that can make up one's political views.  These Democrats I know are against paid maternity leave in all cases because of how detrimental such laws can be to small businesses.  The Republicans I know who are for paid maternity leave like to bring up family values and support. 

 

As a Left Wing Democrat, are you really willing to have small businesses crumble because they are unable to afford to give paid maternity leave? I've seen people that claim that political affiliation who are in favor of people losing their jobs just so someone can have maternity leave.  The Right fought for small business protection with FMLA in order to protect workers.  Unless you have some government or pay-in system assisting small businesses to pay for maternity leave, don't you dare give this blind stereotyped view of what any party believes. 

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#59 of 79 Old 10-11-2013, 09:51 PM
 
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Okay, that last post was largely a vent.  I hate stereotyping in politics without anyone bothering to understand what individuals think and believe and I hate the remark that only specific parties care about women and breastfeeding.  The natural parenting mindset is hardly party-specific.

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I think you're not considering all the values that can make up one's political views.  These Democrats I know are against paid maternity leave in all cases because of how detrimental such laws can be to small businesses.  The Republicans I know who are for paid maternity leave like to bring up family values and support. 

 

As a Left Wing Democrat, are you really willing to have small businesses crumble because they are unable to afford to give paid maternity leave? I've seen people that claim that political affiliation who are in favor of people losing their jobs just so someone can have maternity leave.  The Right fought for small business protection with FMLA in order to protect workers.  Unless you have some government or pay-in system assisting small businesses to pay for maternity leave, don't you dare give this blind stereotyped view of what any party believes. 


Please.

 

Chill.


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