How do you feel about women who MUST FF and a forum to support them? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 10:46 PM
 
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I would even be against a forum called "inablility to breastfeed." I don't like the statement it would make -- that a true inability to breastfeed is so common that it warrants an entire forum. And I think it would still fill up with women who actually could breastfeed but who choose to ff anyway. So many of those women claim that they are unable to breastfeed. In fact, I think every ff mother I have met IRL has told me she "couldn't" breastfeed -- and it simply isn't possible that THAT MANY women are truly unable to breastfeed.

It is EXTREMELY RARE not to be able to breastfeed. All that should be required is a single thread. Not a whole forum.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#62 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 10:47 PM
 
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hmm, i see that the title of the thread has changed...so i wanted to now answer again in light of that.

i don't really think MDC is the place for a FF forum. there are plenty of other places on the web where it can be discussed, but it just doesn't seem to fit here. not to say there aren't people here who *do* FF, or that it can't be discussed in different forums on MDC, but a natural parenting site just doesnt' seem like the right place for a forum dedicated to FF.

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#63 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 10:58 PM
 
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SBF: 'nuff said.... ITA!!!!
It would be like a forum for uhh... Dads who do the dishes AND get sitters for dates......... Just too rare.
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#64 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 10:58 PM
 
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I support the idea of having a forum for moms that have to ff. I think (and this my opinion only) that many moms here would be ok with this, because it's not ff'ing "by choice" it's because they have to.
I had to ff dd after I weaned her at 3 months because of severe galactosemia and lactose protein intolerance, it was heartbreaking because I didn't want to (and I was AP) but it was a medical problem, and I had to do it. I don't think it would be fair for people to judge me for weaning her because, like I said, it was needed for my dd's health. So I think there should be one. I hope there is support for moms that unfortunately could not bf. and remember, these moms actually struggle with this issue. And I don't agree with the PP that said we would have to have a circumcision and disposable diaper forum. Because circumcision is not natural and is never "medically necessary". A doctor won't (at least I strongly believe they won't) tell a mother her son "needs to be circumcized" the same with disposable diapers. (other than the fact that with 'sposies there's nothing really to talk about, I used 'sposies with my dd and I never needed "support" to use disposables.

Just my .02 cents!

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#65 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
A doctor won't (at least I strongly believe they won't) tell a mother her son "needs to be circumcized"
I'm guessing you haven't spent a lot of time in the anti-circumcision forum. Doctors tell mothers their sons need to be circumcized ALL THE TIME. It's never true, but they say it anyway. Same with weaning, actually. Seems like every day I read another story of a doctor telling a mother she HAS to wean, even though it's completely untrue (by the way, I'm not saying that that's what happened in your case).

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#66 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:14 PM
 
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But couldn't that support be found in a thread?

We're not talking HUGE numbers of women here.... MOST MDC members bf. Right? The vast majority.

So maybe if 1% of the posters are FF because of medical reasons and need support for that, then that 1% can post on a thread.... for support...

Kimberly
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#67 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBF
I'm guessing you haven't spent a lot of time in the anti-circumcision forum. Doctors tell mothers their sons need to be circumcized ALL THE TIME. It's never true, but they say it anyway. Same with weaning, actually. Seems like every day I read another story of a doctor telling a mother she HAS to wean, even though it's completely untrue (by the way, I'm not saying that that's what happened in your case).

I meant there are no "medical reasons" to circumcize, but sometimes there are medical reasons to ff. Doctors may tell moms what they want, but it's up to them (the moms) to see if it's really a necessity. I was told (by a nurse in an OB office) that if I didn't circumcize my son would be "the only different one in the locker room at school" I told her how I would not do something that was against my personal beliefs to go "with the flow"... (and then gave her a look that made her leave the room)
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#68 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:15 PM
 
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And honestly, the thing about wanting help with hypoallergenic formulas and stuff like that.... okay, if the vast majority of posters on this site are NOT using formula... we're pretty clueless about formulas, so it would probably be better to post on a site either designated for your child's illness or a site with more ff'ers, right? Cause I sure can't give advice on formula! I just know it stinks (literally, it smells bad)
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#69 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:16 PM
 
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I don't think MDC is the place for a FF support forum for the reasons already stated. I use disposables and I don't expect any support for that here.

ITA with rareimer!
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#70 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:17 PM
 
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Oh, and dr's tell moms ALL THE TIME that they "have" to circ for medical reasons. (Usually medical reasons that are bogus)
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#71 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rareimer
my honest thoughts are that formula is WAY overused in our society. it is a wonderful thing that formula exists, for the few cases where breastfeeding is not possible, i am glad there is a reasonably healthy alternative. but i wish it were seen for what it is--a last resort, a medicine, something to be used ONLY in certain situations--rather than an "alternative" to breastfeeding. it should not be a "feeding choice", the only choice should be breastfeeding, and formula should only be given if there is absolutely no choice. i think formula should only be available by prescription.

I strongly agree with this post. IMHO, like the PP said, formula should only be available with a prescription, and it shouldn't be a choice. The same with c-sections, we're not going to have a "c-section by choice" forum, but what about a "c-sections for moms that HAD to undergo surgery for whatever reason"?
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#72 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:31 PM
 
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I would have loved somthing like this. I think I have insufficient ductal tissue. There were little places to turn where my predicament and the choices I made, were understood without a long prelude of an explanation. I think this would be of value, to have a place to talk about what formula to choose, and how to best give it in a way that gives the best chance of preserving any possible nursing relationship.
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#73 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
I meant there are no "medical reasons" to circumcize, but sometimes there are medical reasons to ff.
That is true. I just had to take issue with your statement that doctors don't tell mothers that their sons need to be circumcized for medical reasons.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#74 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:38 PM
 
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Again, Curious, could that be found in a support THREAD versus a support FORUM?

A thread is for a limited number of members.... a forum implies that a large number of members need that support, kwim?
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#75 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 11:43 PM
 
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kimberlylibby: I see your point, could there be a poll or something to ask women who really formula feeds here? That way we would know the number of women that need support, to decide wether it's necessary to have a thread vs. a forum.
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#76 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 12:29 AM
 
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I had to ff after inducing lactation for my son (who is adopted) failed. I already voted on the other thread AGAINST the idea of a ff forum for some of the reasons many of you already mentioned. I started the original thread for moms unable to bf, and I felt it met my needs very well.

Even though I don't agree with the idea of a whole forum for ff'ing, I just wanted to back up some of the emotions felt by the moms who desire this forum. So many here have said, "well, go to another board for that info--you can find ff info anywhere". Technically true. But I think the issue is twofold: first, these moms are not "mainstream", don't see themselves as such, wouldn't feel comfortable on such a board, and are really looking for support and answers from ff'ing moms *who are AP*. They don't want bottlepropping advice. Second, I think an even deeper issue is that these moms want to be accepted and acknowledged by the community here. It's not that they want formula acknowledged--but they want their experiences acknowledged. Maybe we are the majority IRL, but we don't care what the outside world thinks of us--we do care what other AP'ers think.
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#77 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 01:02 AM
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I have to agree with the others here. I did have to supplement with formula for a couple of weeks due to a severely compromised milk supply due to my baby having an undiagnosed cleft palate. I supplemented while I worked my ass off to build my supply back up with pumping. I am happy to say that I was back up to a full supply within a month and am still pumping for her as she approaches the six month mark.

Pumping full time for my baby is the hardest thing I have ever done. I am doing it because I am very commited to giving my daughter the breastmilk she needs. I believe firmly that breastmilk is a baby's birthright.

I could not have done it without the support of my friends, family and this website. It is the one place I know I can come to where I'll get a virtual pat on the back and not one person suggesting that I should take an easier road. I'm safe here from that pressure. For that reason I don't want to see what would amount to a formula feeding advocacy forum.

With that said, maybe a subforum dealing with the emotions of breastfeeding would be appropriate. I have definitely grieved the loss of my nursing relationship with my daughter. It is made even more intense because my older daughter is still nursing. I've had to limit her nursing times for the first time in her life (she's 3 now) because I have to make sure the baby has the most milk. So, she's allowed to nurse only after I pump. This has been a difficult adjustment for both of us.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but it's the best I can do right now and I wanted to respond.


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#78 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 01:12 AM
 
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This is not to imply that I am against any women that must FF. Having been someone that FF her first two boys I can honestly say that I don't think there are any FF'ing issues that anyone should need a forum for... and they could get advice on just about any other baby board if a question did come up.

Us BFing mothers face a lot of issues: physical, emotional, political, etc. It's different.



The problem is in the reason I guess. I myself wouldn't encourage FF as an alternative to BF. It's not! The issues one would face depend on the person and why the FF. For some, though we may not agree or support it, they really do choose. For some they have no choice to make. That is the very rare case I know, but even for us women who are the exception there is nowhere to talk with other like mothers. If you don't think there are any issues that FF parents should need a forum for then apperantly you didn't have these issues and that's wonderful for you. I have also been a breastfeeding mother and let me tell you BF mothers don't face any more issues than FF mothers with these special circumstances. Not to mention there is no emotional attachment to a bottle and the joy of it is not there in the same way. What I'd like for the community here to understand is that mother who have to FF miss out on alot jsut as their children do. There is a certain amount of guilt and grief that go along with that. I'm pretty much over it by now since my baby is almost 2 but I think it's plain wrong to deny moms support HERE for any reason especially one they had no control over.
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#79 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 01:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberlylibby
Again, Curious, could that be found in a support THREAD versus a support FORUM?

A thread is for a limited number of members.... a forum implies that a large number of members need that support, kwim?

If the concept is so bothersome al together what difference does it make? I think we are starting to see just how many mothers do need that support. Perhaps even haveing a mod and a few nice mamas who have deal with both and later succeded at BF to help us other moms out. I for one am scared to death that I will not be able to nurse this baby we are expecting. I'd love to have the support of someone who will not lecture me but rather teach me and support me. I've never nursed a baby without a nippile shield. What if I can't? WHat if the lactation consultant tells me I need to AGAIN? What if I'm freaking out that my milk isn't enough to make that baby grow AGAIN? These things are really scary when you have been through them before and want so badly to nurse your next baby.
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#80 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 01:54 AM
 
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I just wanted to chime back in quickly and say that I think some of the PPs have the right idea with a "grieving the loss of breastfeeding" forum if anything. THAT is a forum that I could have use, and continue to use. THAT title more appropriately expesses the sentiments and needs of the bottlefeeding members of this forum, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as one of that population, I would say that is fairly accurate.
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#81 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 01:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
kimberlylibby: I see your point, could there be a poll or something to ask women who really formula feeds here? That way we would know the number of women that need support, to decide wether it's necessary to have a thread vs. a forum.
This is going to sound cold and heartless, but how could we find out from such a poll which women should actually have their decision to ff supported and which women would have been better off with more breastfeeding support instead? (yes I'm distinguishing those who truly had to ff vs. those who actually did not)

It should be pointed out that even among the formula feeding mothers here, many of them admit that it was the wrong choice (or the result of the wrong kind of support), and/or they themselves are opposed to a formula support forum.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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#82 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 02:24 AM
 
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Oh, I think there used to be a csection support forum on the old boards. Maybe my new mommy brain has failed me again? lol!

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#83 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 02:40 AM
 
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Most of the previous posters have already said things a lot more succinctly and eloquently than I could have so I'll just add my vote as being against a FF forum. In fact, I would consider leaving this board if there were ever to be a FF forum.
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#84 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 03:39 AM
 
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Curious, alot of us had to supplement a low supply and you could find suggestions for necessary supplementation while maintaining as much milk as possible on the bf support boards. I have been there with my second child.

As for the board itself. No here too, for all the reasons already stated above. It would attract alot of ff by choice who claim that it was neccesary, which would leave the neccessary part of the whole phrase up for debate.

And I did grieve the abrupt end of my nursing relationship with my first. It was even worse after I nursed my dd and ds2 and found out how far apart formula and bm really are. I still grieve over it.

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#85 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 08:36 AM
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I'm reading and taking it all in. I'd just prefer to hear what everyone has to say for now.

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#86 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 09:20 AM
 
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And please don't see me as heartless! Good grief, my daughter didn't latch on for the first 10 weeks of her life! I exclusively pumped for her and cried and cried until she latched on.

I saw more lactation consultants than I can count....

There's nothing wrong with a support THREAD, but I think there is something wrong with a visitor coming to MDC and seeing "Formula Moms Board"... it sets the wrong tone.

And I do think the wording is important.... a Grieving the Loss of BF *FORUM* could be very appropriate because that spans many age frames.... for example, my daughter weaned against my will at 10 1/2 months and I was pregnant and when I pumped had NOTHING. With much tears and anguish, I had to stop waaaaay before I was ready. It would have been awesome to have a forum for support then.... and a grieving forum could provide that.

Even if your child weans at 3yo or something, there is still a grieving process from that bond....

I'm not trying to be snarky, I promise. I've been there with the bf issues. It was hard as all get out and I hated it...

I think from what you're saying, you want support for the EMOTIONAL side of things, not for the "what kind of formula should I use" questions.

And I think people coming to MDC for the first time would see "Grieving the Loss of BF" and say "Wow, they think bf is important here" instead of "Formula Feeders" and thinking "Wow, they think formula is a good alternative to bf"

KWIM?
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#87 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 10:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberlylibby
And I think people coming to MDC for the first time would see "Grieving the Loss of BF" and say "Wow, they think bf is important here" instead of "Formula Feeders" and thinking "Wow, they think formula is a good alternative to bf"
This is something I could agree with. I ended up having to supplement formula with my middle dd. She was exclusively bfed when I got pregnant and no matter what I did to boost supply, she kept losing weight. I was *heartbroken*....... Seriously. I could have used some support for how I was feeling, dh was deployed, my lc was supportive, but distant, if you know what I mean, and no one, NO ONE IRL could understand my decision to continue bfing through the pain, the lack of supply, the struggles....I was really truly struggling with my desires for my children (both my nursling and my in womb babe)....I wanted the best for both of them and it was a really hard time in my mothering. That said. If I'd come here and found a formula forum, I would NOT have visited it. I was NOT a formula feeding mother and was not about to put myself there. I was a bfing mother, facing some challenges. Grief is a good word to describe the feeling.

Just my thoughts.
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#88 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimberlylibby
And I do think the wording is important.... a Grieving the Loss of BF *FORUM* could be very appropriate because that spans many age frames.... KWIM?
Thank you! This is what I meant to say! I would definitely support this forum suggestion. Because it focuses on BF, and acknowledges that there may be troubles with it, that it is hard, and that there are many things that can interrupt this relationship (particularly in our society that isn't very supportive of BF).


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#89 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 11:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBF
This is going to sound cold and heartless, but how could we find out from such a poll which women should actually have their decision to ff supported and which women would have been better off with more breastfeeding support instead? (yes I'm distinguishing those who truly had to ff vs. those who actually did not)

It should be pointed out that even among the formula feeding mothers here, many of them admit that it was the wrong choice (or the result of the wrong kind of support), and/or they themselves are opposed to a formula support forum.

Just wanted to add that I agree with this post. I wasn't thinking about this, and now I would agree with having a "grieving the loss of bf'ing" forum vs. a formula feeding support forum, it would be a much better idea.
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#90 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 11:17 AM
 
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In the Getting Started and Overcoming Difficulties or Finding Your Tribe forum, a thread or a sub-forum called, Grieving and Dealing with Severe Breastfeeding Difficulties?
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