How do you feel about women who MUST FF and a forum to support them? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 09:08 PM
 
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For some reason the 2 were combined. The suggestion thread is first then the thread I started starts at 25 I think. I don't know why they did that.
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#122 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 09:37 PM
 
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I asked Cynthia to combine them and she did. I thought there were good ideas in both places and I didn't want to keep having to jump back and forth.
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#123 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 09:48 PM
 
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oki-doki good thinkin'
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#124 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 10:36 PM
 
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Yes, yes, there *is* a loss when an older child stops nursing, for whatever reason. I felt HORRIBLE guilt when Libby stopped cold turkey at 10 1/2 months. Everyone in LLL told me it was a nursing strike... and perhaps it was, but it was the strike that never ended I pumped like a mad fool to keep my supply up and got nothing, took fenugreek and got nothing..... and I was getting 60-80 ounces a day when I ep'ed! I didn't know I was pregnant, but that was like a total "duh" moment when it all clicked! But I still tried for a good month or so!!

Every time I offered Libby the breast, she would push it away, say "no no no" and if I forced it, she would clamp her 8 teeth into my breast, drawing blood and then let go and say "no no". Then she would crawl over and pick up my cup of water on the floor and drink it. I gave her breastmilk (some of mine, some of my sister's) until she was well over a year old, but it was still HORRIDLY traumatic for me. Even now at almost 18 months, if she falls down, I instinctively want to put her to the breast.... in fact, I've tried it, even now, 7+ months later, I offer when she's upset... I squirt some milk out and wipe it on her lips and she laughs at me and pokes my nipples.

It's especially sad when you didn't CHOOSE to wean. I would have LOVED to tandem nurse! And unfortunately, no one in mainstream society "gets" it. They think I must be thrilled cause "weaning was so easy". They don't get that I didn't WANT to wean! I wanted to keep that girlie on the boobie for a good 2 more years!!

Sigh.... anyway, yeah, I miss my boobie girl. Although, there were moments when she bit through my nipple where I thought I would never ever be sad about her weaning There's something about a bloody scabby boob that makes you want to cry

Kimberly
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#125 of 335 Old 05-29-2004, 11:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kimberlylibby

...And I think people coming to MDC for the first time would see "Grieving the Loss of BF" and say "Wow, they think bf is important here" instead of "Formula Feeders" and thinking "Wow, they think formula is a good alternative to bf"

KWIM?


That is a very, very good point. Good thinking!

Take the time to heal from your marriage before you move on with someone else. Make a list of all the qualities you would like in a new partner and then work on growing that way yourself. ~mandib50
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#126 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 12:44 AM
 
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Just wanted to add to the list of physical reasons a baby can't BF: Severe Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency. This is what ds has, he produces NONE of the enzymes needed to digest fats. Breastmilk has long-chain fats & he can't digest it. So he has to be on a specialized formula (nasty stuff that's $50/can) that has medium-chain fats. Even with his enzyme supplements he couldn't digest BM. I pumped for 8 weeks while he was being treated, diagnosed, etc. and ended up donating all of the milk b/c he couldn't use it. So here is yet another reason (albeit the shortened version) why some babies can't BF.

I too like the idea of a sub-forum called Grieving the Loss of Breastfeeding.

AmiBeth

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#127 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 12:55 AM
 
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The only thing about a sub-forum, from what I understand, is that it has to have a lot of members interested. I once asked about starting some other forums, like one for pet owners, and was told there just wasn't enough of a demand. I was told to start a thread in FYT and see where it went.
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#128 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 08:14 AM
 
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CaliMommie: There is an amazing story about a lady named Trish who SPUN her milk to make it skim for her son. It was the most incredible thing I've ever read. He's 3, and she still does this for him.... I know this is way too late for you to do anything about it, but if you have another child with this condition, you might try to get in touch with her. I'm going to try to find her site. It seriously is incredible.

Kimberly
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#129 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 08:15 AM
 
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http://www.mealtimenotions.com/Paren...tinct10304.htm

That's an extremely abbreviated version. They mention on one line that she centrifuged her milk.... there's an awesome indepth journal of it... need to find it!

Amazing stuff. I'm in awe of what she's done for her son!

I had NO clue stuff like that was possible!!
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#130 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 09:53 AM
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Greaseball - I also would love to have a pet forum

I read a thread once about it and the reason we won't ever one is because pets do not support a natural family lifestyle...

Hold on, I'll find it....

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ight=pet+forum

Ok - Cynthia said it better than I did. Anyway, I don't agree - but that's the deal. I'm thinking if you can stretch books and media and war and politics to encompass Mothering advocacy then a Pet Forum shouldn't be that far out there...... ( sewing and crafts? trading post? but pets don't count?)

Anyway, just wanted to mention that..... I'll mind my own business now

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#131 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 10:19 AM
 
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OT
Don't call them pets! Animal companions. For us, they have always been part of our unschooling curriculum. For others, their livestock (goats, chickens, llamas) supports their self-sustaining lifestyle. What could be more NFL?
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#132 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 10:34 AM
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DaryLLL

Right on!

Please excuse my little faux pas! How silly of me!

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#133 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 12:37 PM
 
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i have several thoughts on this issue.

1. i support those of you who cannot breastfeed. i have a friend that can't now bcuz of mismanagement in the hospital and she is too upset to try again and fail
2. amitymama.com has "natural mamas unable to breastfeed" that mommas could go to.
3. couldn't grief over not breastfeeding topics be put in the "grief and loss" forum????
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#134 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 12:48 PM
 
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wow this sure got long.

I still stand by my thoughts that if you are going to create something for one group of people you should be fair and do it for the other groups of people. Like if we get s subforum for formula moms, we need a subforum for procirc moms and disposable moms and so on and so forth.
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#135 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 01:51 PM
 
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I didn't read all the posts, but wanted to weigh in on this. Since I've been the "consumer representative" on the Breastfeeding Committee for Canada for 4 years, and am supposed to represent the voice of ALL moms, I've thought alot about this issue.

I think a new forum is possible, but the title needs to be something like "grieving the loss of breastfeeding" or something like that. It definately shouldn't be called "formula feeding" or "bottle feeding" - that places formula as the only alternative to breastfeeding. We don't want a forum with that name - just to be "fair" or "balanced". That would reinforce the fallacy of "equivalency" that the formula manf's thrive on. The new forum needs to keep reminding people that pumping you own milk, then using milk from milk banks, are the 2nd and 3rd choices when breastfeeding isn't working, and that formula is a 4th choice.

I encourage the adminstrators to take a look at the MOBI - Mothers Overcoming Breastfeeding Issues. I have lurked on it, and it is excellant.

The late Dr. Wah Wong of Canada, who headed the UNICEF BFI initiative for several years, had proposed an 11th step to the BFI - to love and support the mother who doesn't breastfeed. While one doesn't need to "approve" another mom's choices, one needs to accept them and support them where they are.

I think a forum on Bfing grief could be useful for many people. I would like to see moms who had bfed, but not as long as they would have liked, be welcome there, too.

I hestitate to have a forum where ONLY ffing moms would go. They need to be exposed to moms who have successfully bfed, too - so that they can get the correct information about bfing, too. I think experienced bfing moms, who perhaps have matured to a more open, understanding and accepting view of mothering, would be able to give great support on such a forum.

From an advocacy point of view, it would be great to have a place for these moms to gather. I believe it is THESE women, who for many have been failed by the health system and society, that have the most legitimate and potentially the most powerful voice to demand better breastfeeding support. I would love for these moms to support each other and gather their grief into anger and work together to demand milk banks and alternatives to formula that their children deserve.

Janice
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#136 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 02:03 PM
 
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I definately agree there should be a forum. Especially after seeing a few posts from mommas looking to talk to other mommas about formula feeding.

I don't mind changing the name a bit to show that we still feel breastfeeding is important, but that we understand there are times where it's simply not possible.

For instance, I'm sure that forum could help my sister, who's son was born with a heart condition. She can't find the time to pump since she's a SAHM and he is very high needs. She has lots of questions regarding his growth, eating habits, and reactions to formula that I just can't help her with because I've only breastfed my daughter.

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#137 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 02:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rach
I definately agree there should be a forum. Especially after seeing a few posts from mommas looking to talk to other mommas about formula feeding.

I don't mind changing the name a bit to show that we still feel breastfeeding is important, but that we understand there are times where it's simply not possible.

For instance, I'm sure that forum could help my sister, who's son was born with a heart condition. She can't find the time to pump since she's a SAHM and he is very high needs. She has lots of questions regarding his growth, eating habits, and reactions to formula that I just can't help her with because I've only breastfed my daughter.
but if she doesnt have the time to pump, how will she have the time to get online and talk about her problems?
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#138 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 02:37 PM
 
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Kimberliby~ I will go check out that site. But I also wonder where her son got fats from? B/C Colby needs fats, just not long-chain. Hmmm. Also, I've seen so many people say that if moms can't BF they can pump or get milk from a breastmilk bank, which is why I shared ds' story- I wanted people to realize that not all babies can tolerate breastmilk.

AmiBeth

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#139 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 02:46 PM
 
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Right AmiBeth... and I wasn't trying to insinuate that this is even something that would work for your son... it is just one of teh most fascinating things I've ever read! She has a whole long article on LLL but LLL site is down right now for some reason. If I can ever get it to load up I will PM you with it.

Kimberly
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#140 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 02:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greaseball
The only thing about a sub-forum, from what I understand, is that it has to have a lot of members interested. I once asked about starting some other forums, like one for pet owners, and was told there just wasn't enough of a demand. I was told to start a thread in FYT and see where it went.

The day there is a pet forum there dang well ought to be a bf loss type forum! People can't imagine what mothers who must FF would need to talk about yet understand the need for a pet forum? I really wasn't expecting MDC to ever give into a bf loss leads to FF type forum but I do think there si a need for new mothers and grieving mothers. Like I said before, I"m scared to death about having problems BF this time around because I want it so much. What would be REALLY REALLY neat for mothers like me who have HAD to FF and are getting another chance to BF another baby would be to have sort of a BF mentor. Not sure how this could be achieved but I think It's a neat idea to have someone who has alot of experience BF and knowledge to lend. What do you all think?
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#141 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SEEPAE
but if she doesnt have the time to pump, how will she have the time to get online and talk about her problems?
ROFL. I could always ask the questions for her and print out the answers.
I'm just saying I know that it's hard for some AP mommas that have to formula feed and can't find any one else that does the same.

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#142 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 03:37 PM
 
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I just wanted to say that I"m really pleased with how this subject has been handled by everyone.

I think a "breastfeeding grief/loss" forum would be wonderful. ITA that the word "formula" should not appear anywhere in the title. I think the forum should be a subforum under "breastfeeding". It's definitely tied to grief and loss, but I think it's more closely linked to bf'ing. Pregnancy and birth loss is part of the pregnancy forum. I think including it under breastfeeding also implies unity with our bf'ing sisters and a common ideal, which of course, would be bf'ing. Sometimes I have to remind myself that I WAS a nursing mother. Not for as long as I wanted, but I WAS. I can and need to claim that common bond.
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#143 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 03:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SBF
No, ff mothers can go practically anywhere for support. MDC is supposed to be for natural parenting. MDC is for supporting breastfeeding mothers, and that support is undermined, IMO, if ff is also supported. As I've said before, if ff were perfectly fine, why should anyone bf?
There have been several posts that have basically stated this sentiment. What Laurel expressed, and I'd like to reiterate, though, is that outside formula feeding forums are NOT helpful to us. They are about as helpful as my former pediatrician who told me my DS should be weaned from the bottle by 15 months. I am a mama who practices AP, and although I had no choice but to ultimately bottle-feed (I induced lactation for a few months too), I treat that bottle-feeding as bottle-NURSING, trying to mimic the nursing relationship as best I can. I can't get support for my parenting ideals at other mainstream forums.

There are times I would love to have support and be able to ask questions of other mamas who believe in the AP ideals -- primarily the respect for the child as an individual -- but have been forced into formula feeding. Of course we all know breastfeeding is ideal. But we do have issues come up, issues that I have occasionally tried to get support for on the thread in FYT or in Life with a Babe. Things like when to wean, and if there is any truth to the idea that prolonged bottle use affects speech, bottle rot, when/if to switch to cow's milk, etc. The thread in FYT usually only gets action when a FF mama finds it and tells her story, and expresses gratitude for the thread's existence. It is difficult to try to get real advice there.

I completely understand the fear that a FF forum would undermine what MDC stands for, and I respect that. But I do believe that how the forum is titled would make the most difference in that perception. I would love to see a "Grieving the Loss of Breastfeeding" forum, but would loathe a "Formula Feeders Post Here" forum. But, due to the hostility that has surfaced in this thread, I'll have to concede that I probably wouldn't find support or answers to my questions, regardless of the title of the forum. I guess I'll continue to wing it and keep my mouth shut.
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#144 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nemmer
I would love to see a "Grieving the Loss of Breastfeeding" forum, ...
Like so many others posters have stated, if you have that forum, you must have a disposable diaper forum and a circ forum. Period

I personally would love to see a forum for those mothers grieving circ. Regardless of why the child is circ'd, (like mom was clueless=me), some moms are grieving that. I know I am. So I would like to have a forum devoted to supporting moms who choose to circ. Of course the title would need to imply that uncirc'd is the way to go.....

edited to add:

I just re-read my post and I sounded hostile and snarky.... Just wanted to make clear (it's hard to do that when writing) that my post is not intended to be snarky - I was seriously expressing an idea. Much love to everybody today. !!!!

I am feeling the love and patience on this thread BTW....

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#145 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 04:35 PM
 
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well this one is a pickle! As a mother of a ff baby 5 years ago, I know how much I suffered and mourned the loss of breastfeeding. As a mother of a bf 11 month old that I had to fight tooth and nail to bf (low milk supply - every ounce is a blessing!) I understand how much support it takes to breastfeed. If a mother was struggling, and found a thread that told her that it was OK to ff, would she spend more time there, and less time in Getting Started and Overcoming Problems, leading her to not get the support to continue nursing?

I don't really have any answers, I see both sides. I don't think that ff is the equal of bf. But I really don't see anyone here that believes that either. I do think that we need to encourage alternatives to formula for mothers that can't bf (if the baby can take a subsitute at all). The suggestion of a thead for mothers that are mourning seems reasonable, but maybe within a catagory that already exists.

FYI - we do have a tribe for low-milk-supply mamas over in FYT if anyone needs to join us.

Victoria
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#146 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 04:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
What would be REALLY REALLY neat for mothers like me who have HAD to FF and are getting another chance to BF another baby would be to have sort of a BF mentor. Not sure how this could be achieved but I think It's a neat idea to have someone who has alot of experience BF and knowledge to lend. What do you all think?
I think this would be an awesome idea! I am seriously considering working to become a lactation consultant...

A friend of mine mentioned her dd was having the green poopies... dr's office told her it was normal so I explained about hindmilk/foremilk imbalance and found out she had overactive letdown too. So she started the 2 hr rotation... right breast only for this two hour block, left breast only for this two hour block to make sure baby gets enough hindmilk. It worked and when she told me I was just SO thrilled. It was such a little thing, but it made a big difference for her and her sweet dd.

I would totally love to mentor anyone who needed encouragement and advice. I'll try to think of a way to organize something like this!
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#147 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 06:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lab
Like so many others posters have stated, if you have that forum, you must have a disposable diaper forum and a circ forum. Period

I personally would love to see a forum for those mothers grieving circ. Regardless of why the child is circ'd, (like mom was clueless=me), some moms are grieving that. I know I am. So I would like to have a forum devoted to supporting moms who choose to circ. Of course the title would need to imply that uncirc'd is the way to go.....

edited to add:

I just re-read my post and I sounded hostile and snarky.... Just wanted to make clear (it's hard to do that when writing) that my post is not intended to be snarky - I was seriously expressing an idea. Much love to everybody today. !!!!

I am feeling the love and patience on this thread BTW....
Can I point out please that circumcising is a choice as is disposable diapering. Less the very extreme in circumcision because of defects ect. Please understand no one here is advocatng that we create a forum for women who could have BF but just lazied out of it or gave up. It's no different than the special needs forum. If you aren't the parent of a special needs child it's hard to understand the need and you wouldn't likely post there. With so many wonderful women here it's unlikely that we will ever all see eye to eye but if we focus on each others needs a little more this place can only get better.
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#148 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 06:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by busybusymomma
I think this would be an awesome idea! I am seriously considering working to become a lactation consultant...

A friend of mine mentioned her dd was having the green poopies... dr's office told her it was normal so I explained about hindmilk/foremilk imbalance and found out she had overactive letdown too. So she started the 2 hr rotation... right breast only for this two hour block, left breast only for this two hour block to make sure baby gets enough hindmilk. It worked and when she told me I was just SO thrilled. It was such a little thing, but it made a big difference for her and her sweet dd.

I would totally love to mentor anyone who needed encouragement and advice. I'll try to think of a way to organize something like this!

YAY~!~ Good to know, I may take you up on that!
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#149 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 07:15 PM
 
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I think there should be also. I FF my oldest 2 by ignorance and feel guilty as heck. But, it would have been nice to have a place to go. Also, I now have a friend that due to thyroid and other problems can't BF. She was devastated and still is. 5months after giving birth she is still going to docs trying to find out why and how to relactate. I think she and others deserves a place that would respect her. She is a great mama and AP mama!!!
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#150 of 335 Old 05-30-2004, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay, I haven't read all of the responses yet since there are sooo.... many and my poor dd has an awful flu, but here's how I feel.

I'm the terrible and insane person who originally suggested that there ought to be a forum for ff babies. I think I'm starting to change my mind. I realize now that many of you have absolutely no idea how hard some of us have tried to bf for as long as possible against many odds. Sometimes it just doesn't work. My dd has recently weaned on her own (bc of lack of supply) but is still on formula. Mainstream people would have her on cow's milk and solids by now. They wouldn't understand why I am not pushing her to eat more solids. They wouldn't understand at all how I feel about not being able to nurse her longer. I have tried so hard to nurse her and it has been very painful at points physically (extended yeast infection). Anyone I talk to says, "well, it's about time anyway." What kind of support is that!?!? So I can go elsewhere for support? Where????

But many of the responses I have read here suggest that you hard-core nursers who have never had any problems think that we are asking for a forum because we don't care to bf or that we didn't try hard enough. This is rediculous! As many people have said, we want something more along the lines of "when bf'ing doesn't work out" or "grieving the loss of bf'ing." If we had something like this, how would it undermine MDC? Really, we are AP mama's trying our best to give our kids what they need. And no, I don't feel like I can get the same kind of support elsewhere. I am very sad that so many of you are against this and don't get it at all.

That said, I suggest a subforum under the main bf forum. That way we won't offend you all by having a whole forum to ourselves. And we don't have to try to keep track of a single thread that will likely fall off the main page time and time again. I believe that more than 1% of the MDC population had or have to use ff at some point and would gain support from a subforum like this.

Alisha, Army wife to Nathan , Homeschooling mama to Scheeli (May 2003) , Bronwynn (Nov. 2004) :, Piper (Nov. 2007) , and Wesley (January 2010)
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