How do you feel about women who MUST FF and a forum to support them? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I really feel like there should be a forum for non-nursing babies and toddlers. I have a 13 month old that I nursed exclusively until she was 10 months or so, but I got pregnant and my milk supply went down hill rather quickly and we started supplementing. Now, she has formula and some solids throughout the day. There are many AP mamas that try to breastfeed and can not do it for some reason and there are also that have to wean prematuraly. It affects so much of our life that I think it would be appropriate to give us our own forum. For example, up until a week ago, dd was still nursing to sleep (that was the only times she was nursing and it was mainly for comfort), but she suddenly decided to quit nursing. I'm pretty sure my milk changed to colostrum and she decided she didn't like it. Well, now, for the last week I've been at a loss as to how to get her to sleep. She doesn't go to sleep nearly as well with a bottle. It also affects us emotionally. I was thinking that there should be a few subforums as well: one for mothers who try to nurse but never are able to, one for early weaners, and one for emotional support/feelings of loss. Anyway, do what you want with my suggestions. Thanks.

Alisha, Army wife to Nathan , Homeschooling mama to Scheeli (May 2003) , Bronwynn (Nov. 2004) :, Piper (Nov. 2007) , and Wesley (January 2010)
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#2 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 03:49 PM
 
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I second this idea as an AP mother who could not nurse due to medications I am on. I feel kinda left out because I bottle feed.
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#3 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 04:01 PM
 
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There is a support group at Yahoo groups called MOBI (mothers overcoming breastfeeding issues) http://www.internetbabies.com/mobi/default.asp
They were an incredible source of much-needed support when I was going through my own problems in breastfeeding, and are exactly what you are looking for.

I do not think that MDC is an appropriate place for such a forum.
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#4 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 04:27 PM
 
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We do have a thread in FYT called "Support for Moms who Can't BF"--I'm not sure how to link it, but maybe someone else knows. I agree that it might be awkward to have a whole forum, but I think it is certainly appropriate to have at least a thread for this kind of support.
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#5 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 04:33 PM
 
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Stacy I am curious as to why you think this. I feel almost threatened by you suggesting I go to a yahoo group for support. This is where I like to come for support and to support others. Is there something inherently wrong with an AP mom who bottle feeds? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it? Seems kinda dscriminatory to me.
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#6 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 06:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intensity_too
Stacy I am curious as to why you think this. I feel almost threatened by you suggesting I go to a yahoo group for support. This is where I like to come for support and to support others. Is there something inherently wrong with an AP mom who bottle feeds? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it? Seems kinda descriminatory to me.
I have to agree.

Maybe I do not understand the purpse or intent of MDC. My understanding was that MDC was to support AP'ing/Natural living parents. The fact is that some of us who are in fact very AP cannot BF for a variety of reasons.
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#7 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 06:05 PM
 
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I think this is a great idea! I can't bf ds (medical reasons), and would love to be able to discuss ff issues with other mamas here. As for there being a songle thread in FYT- it is a huge pain to search through a long thread to try to find answers for qiestions we might have. With a forum we could post new threads as issues & questions arise. And as for a yahoo groups, why should we have to leave MDC for support that we could get from mamas here? Besides that yahoo group is for mamas having bf difficulties-not for moms who are unable to bf at all. Why exactly is it not appropriate for us to discuss here how we feed our babies?

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#8 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 07:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intensity_too
Stacy I am curious as to why you think this. I feel almost threatened by you suggesting I go to a yahoo group for support. This is where I like to come for support and to support others. Is there something inherently wrong with an AP mom who bottle feeds? Or are we just not allowed to talk about it? Seems kinda dscriminatory to me.
I feel this way because the vast majority of MDC mama's don't and won't understand the purpose of such a forum. Instead of support, I believe you will get more grief and intense questioning over the necessity to supplement, give up breastfeeding, etc.

If you knew about my breastfeeding problems, perhaps you would see where I'm coming from... my oldest was physically unable to nurse, literally. When she was weighed before and after a feeding, she wasn't even getting 1/2 ounce of milk from my breasts. I had to supplement or she would have starved to death.

Not only did I get some really bad advice about stopping the supplements, but I got lots of flack from staunch breastfeeding advocates who downplayed the seriousness of my situation and even went so far as to blame me for creating the problem in the first place when I had to give her formula when her weak suck couldn't stimulate a decent supply.

Women who have no difficulties breastfeeding believe the stuff they read in LLL's books and don't understand and are unable to offer the support people like you and I really need. I was just trying to point you in the right direction to get that support.

Surely you've noticed how passionate most of the women here are? I think such a forum would focus that passion against you instead of offering the support you are so desperately seeking.

just my 2cents, take it for what it's worth
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#9 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 07:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliMommie
Besides that yahoo group is for mamas having bf difficulties-not for moms who are unable to bf at all.
not true! That group was founded by a woman who was completely unable to nurse her baby. It is for any woman dealing with breastfeeding issues, those having difficulties, those unable to nurse, those who have weaned prematurely for any reason at all...

Quote:
The purpose of MOBI (Mothers Overcoming Breastfeeding Issues) is to give women a place to discuss their emotions over not being able to breastfeed successfully. Many women are unable to breastfeed because of milk supply problems, long or short term separation after the birth of their child, previous breast surgery or lack of support and are overwhelmed with feelings of disappointment, anger, sadness, inadequacy and many others. Some women suffer depression because of these issues. This list is not to discuss the pros and cons of breast over bottle. There are many other resources for that information. We are here to provide a safe atmosphere to share feelings and to connect with other women going through the same process.
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#10 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 07:10 PM
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Hi there,

I'm a EBF mama (some solids now) but I think
there does need to be a FF/supplementing forum. I feel very sad
when I see mamas who have been struggling with these issues
who don't get support here, just flames.

I know a few moms IRL who are very AP but were simply not able
to nurse exclusively (one not at all) and it is not fair to exclude
them.

I certainly do not see them getting support from each other in the
"getting started and overcoming difficulties" forum; if anything, the
very name of the forum implies that they are not welcome.

After all, we have a "working mamas" forum but a lot of mamas
do not feel that this is "AP" enough.

Ciao,

Priya
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#11 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 07:25 PM
 
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Thank you Priya! It means an awful lot to have the support and understanding from an EBFing mom

A big to KC and Amibeth. Thank you for coming out on this thread. I know that it is sometimes hard to admit to feeding formula on these forums.
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#12 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 08:11 PM
 
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Thank you for the request I would love to see!

I'm sort of late to APing... I found all of you rather recently, had DS last December, and the longer I parent, the more AP I am... Due to support / family / what-have-you... We switched to formula on Christmas Eve after an hour trying to get a latch while a dozen people waited in my dining room to eat. It was horriffic.

Anyway, over time, we have changed our entire lives into something much closer to an AP format... Not because I had some goal (quite the opposite, really!), but we just kept doing 'what felt right', and it seems that it's what feels right for us.

I obviously still FF. I would love to help offer support to those that need it, if someone changes your mind. I'd make a point of stopping in to stop the flames over an emotional issue.
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#13 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 08:46 PM
 
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I definitely think a new forum for formula feeding moms is a great idea. Yes, I've seen the intolerance and bad advice given to moms who are struggling/formula feeding or supplementing here, but I don't think that's reason enough not to have a forum. It might need a vigilant moderator, but it's long overdue.

And what about supplementing moms--where should they go? Where ever they feel most comfortable perhaps?

I exclusively breastfed my first son, but now due to latch, suck and supply problems am supplementing my second while trying to recover my supply.

We each have our own threshold for how hard we will try to keep breastfeeding, but I believe that each mom, no matter when she decides it time to supplement or go to formula completely, deserves support and encouragement. Not one of us is really in a position to judge when or if another mother "gave up" or started supplementing too soon.

Sarah
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#14 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 11:55 PM
 
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I don't see why we need a forum for nonbreastfeeding mothers. The Life With A Babe forum isn't about nursing nor is Toddlers. All breastfeeding topics should be kept to the Breastfeeding boards, and the above two forums should be reserved for questions and stories about babies and toddlers regardless of what or how they eat. If you have a question about feeding, it can still go in those forums, there are other moms and dads who will be able to help you out without adding a whole new board.

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#15 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 11:55 PM
 
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I think that's a great idea!!! I nursed for a little while but had to pump for my preemie for 6 months. There is no support for that either infortunatly. We added HMF and then formula and at 22 months she is still on formula only. I would have done ANYTHING to have that experience with her and I felt a great sense of loss when I had to stop physically nursing her. It was a very unique situation but I can totally understand the feeling of loss and sadness mother who cannot nurse go through. I think it's important to keep in mind that we are in no way advocating a forum for moms who WILL NOT nurse. There are many real and serious reasons some mothers can not, medications, prematurity, supply, emotional distress issues, more i'm sure I'm not thinking of.... It's a good idea and one that should be embraced by mothering. I would hope other nursing mother would respect our choices as they ask we respect theirs.
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#16 of 335 Old 05-27-2004, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I still think that we need a forum. I think if nothing else, we can support each other. Yeah, maybe it would cause some controversy, but a thread is not good enough. And, like others have said, we shouldn't have to leave MDC to get support.

Alisha, Army wife to Nathan , Homeschooling mama to Scheeli (May 2003) , Bronwynn (Nov. 2004) :, Piper (Nov. 2007) , and Wesley (January 2010)
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#17 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 12:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr8flmom
I don't see why we need a forum for nonbreastfeeding mothers. The Life With A Babe forum isn't about nursing nor is Toddlers. All breastfeeding topics should be kept to the Breastfeeding boards, and the above two forums should be reserved for questions and stories about babies and toddlers regardless of what or how they eat. If you have a question about feeding, it can still go in those forums, there are other moms and dads who will be able to help you out without adding a whole new board.
So woman who CAN bf should get a whole forum to discuss their problems but mothers who tried and could not should just get shoved under Babies or Toddlers?

oh yeah, that sounds fair!!
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#18 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 12:28 AM
 
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I see stafl's point, and I think she makes a lot of sense. Also, I think that such a forum would imply approval of ff'ing--it would be very easy for it to become something that would not be in line with the principles MDC espouses. I don't think that we initial participants would desire that, but I think it would happen.

I know for myself I would hesitate to post there. I am *extremely* conscious of how I am perceived here as a bottlefeeding mom and would not want to be seen as promoting it. I honestly haven't had too many questions of my own regarding the subject of ff'ing. The few that I had I was able to have answered on the current support thread. Mostly what I have needed from this community is support for the grief/loss aspect of the experience, which I also got from the support thread.

I do see where everyone else is coming from, though.
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#19 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 04:19 PM
 
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[QUOTE=Laurel]I see stafl's point, and I think she makes a lot of sense. Also, I think that such a forum would imply approval of ff'ing--it would be very easy for it to become something that would not be in line with the principles MDC espouses.

I don't understand why anyone would be concerned about "implying approval of FF". What's to approve of ? Are we to let them starve in order to fit in and have a cute signature on MDC? Not trying to argue you'r point at all, I know that some women would just have to visit that forum to snub their nose. Maybe this would be a good starting point for happily BF mothers to gain some understanding and compassion for the reality that not everyone CAN breastfeed and not ever baby can BE breastfed. I think the title will say alot and how that forum is viewed by the community will be what we make of it.
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#20 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 04:53 PM
 
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I agree that a forum for those who ff would be helpful. I had to gradually switch my dd from bf to ff and she was exclusively ff by 6 mos. There were a number of reasons I had to do it (and I HAD to, unfortunately), but whenever I post anything anywhere I feel like I shouldn't mention that about my baby. I am an open book about so many other issues, but I don't even mention that I ff for fear of getting flamed.

And the questions that ff moms might have are NOT necessarily about "overcoming difficulties with bf". I just want a place where I can ask other moms (for example) about what kind of formula they use?
what kind of bottles?
ever use that cereal with formula already in it?
do you use formula in cooking for the baby?
when did you start mixing in real milk or soymilk?

As I'm writing out these example questions I realize, there is NO place in this forum that I feel "safe" asking them.
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#21 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 04:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
I think the title will say alot
That I will agree with you on. I have noticed that mdc administrators and mods are very meticulous when it comes to what forums are included and what the titles are. I remember when "The case against circumcision" used to have a different name, a name that was less clear about Mothering's stand on circumcision.

I think that the forums here reflect in part the needs of the community members, but also the values of Mothering magazine. What if we get a formula feeding forum? I can think of many other groups here that would probably like their own forum too--for example, those who have had c-sections, those who selectively vaccinate, etc. I do think that if this were the case, people coming to mdc for the first time, particularly those who "happened" upon it and weren't specifically looking for AP info could easily get the wrong idea about the community's intent. That's what I meant about it implying approval of ff.

If such a forum were created, how would all of you suggest wording a title? One thing that just came to mind was something along the lines of "breastfeeding loss". How would we go about maintaining the integrity of such a forum?

I am really curious to know what mdc administration thinks. I am kind of surprised no one has responded yet--they is usually on top of things like this, especially when questions are posted in this forum.
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#22 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 05:08 PM
 
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Oh, stafl, I guess you are a mod, though not of this forum.
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#23 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 05:12 PM
 
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Yes, I am also curious as to what the MDC administration thinks.

I do not think the forum name would have to be "formula feeding" or anything close that. I know as a ffing mom, I want a place to discuss my feelings over how I came to be one, how i am preceived in public, as well as general questions. Believe me formula feeding is much more difficult than bfing. There are so many decisions to make as far as what formula, what manufacturer, what bottle . . . and all these become more difficult when you are coming off bfing and have no clue about formula because you never thought you'd need it.

I just feel very unsupported, and at times even attacked, by the fact that I formula feed. Sure, some woman have gone to great lengths to get breastmilk for their child. I would have too but the options were not there. Should I, a very AP mother (co-sleeping, babywearing, cloth diapering, organic eating, recycling, non vaxing, mother of 2 intact boys) feel alienated from an on line AP community because I could not bf. I personally think that sucks.
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#24 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 06:10 PM
 
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You are absolutely right Jamie! I remember talking with some other moms on a thread a while back about how crappy it is that mothers would judge each other on an issue like feeding! Of course we all want to BF and KNOW that it is BEST. Sometimes what's best is not the issue though. When you have a child like mine, who was loosing weight rapidly and CAN NOT physically grow on 20 calorie breastmilk you must make a decision to help them thrive even if that crushes your hopes of breastfeeding. I remeber getting looks and whispers at a local AP meeting I stumbled into in my fav coffee shop all because there was a bottle in my diaper bag. That is exactly how I feel the community here see's us but should we have to hop over to freakin babycenter because we are made to feel like bad parents here? I am so disgusted when I see threads like "is formula feeding child abuse?" here at MDC. Even more so that they are allowed to continue. AS far as everyone wanting a thread about something, that may be true but I think after parenting, pregnancy and birth we've crossed that line. There seems to be an acceptable place for everything else under the sun here shy of corpral punishment. Maybe we should call this dream forum

child beaters/formula feeders is that where we are seen to belong? I don't like the ring of breastfeeding loss but I think you're on the right track!
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#25 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 06:37 PM
 
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There is a suggestion in another thread for a new FF forum. Some seem to think it will be unaccepted by our community here for various reasons. I'd like to get it all out in the open without the back and forth. Please everyone post your honest thoughs on FF and FF mothers in special circumstances.
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#26 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 06:54 PM
 
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I think that there's a time and place for everything. I think that there are obvious reasons that someone might FF and w/o knowing those reasons I don't judge. However, I think that BF is best. I think that if it's possible to do so, that you should. I don't have much respect for those women who have full knowlege of the benefits of BF and still CHOOSE to FF. I don't like hearing excuses for why they switched at 6 months or never tried at all such as, "it was just to hard to BF" or "My DH (DF, DB, DP, whatever) thought it was 'icky' ".

That said, I BF my oldest dd for 6 months. I was 15 at the time and had little support. When I got a job I thought I had to quit so I did. When I had my second dd at 18 I bf her for 2 months. At that time I had my wisdom teeth pulled. I asked my dentist if it was ok to take the medication they gave me while BFing, he told me he thought so but to check with my doctor. My doctor told me "no, absolutely not. You'll need to stop BFing" so I did. I didn't know any better and didn't know that I could even question my doctors advice. When I had my oldest ds I nursed him for 2 years. I knew better then. I didn't let anyone persuade me that what I was doing was wrong. I still didn't have much support, but I just kind of knew that what I was doing was right. Now I am nursing my 11mo ds. He will most likely self ween. My dh and I are not in agreement on this stance since he wants me to ween at 1 year, but I know better. You know better, you do better.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, unless I know the situation it's not my place to make an opinion on FF mommies. They could very well have a good reason to be FFing. They may have been able to BF and not had all the information necessary to make the right choice so they chose to FF. There are just too many circumstances to make a strict "this is how I feel about FF mom's" stance.

That said, I don't think that MDC is the type of place where a FF forum should be put up. I think that will just draw away from the reason that MDC is here to begin with.
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#27 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 06:55 PM
 
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okay, i'll bite.

my honest thoughts are that formula is WAY overused in our society. it is a wonderful thing that formula exists, for the few cases where breastfeeding is not possible, i am glad there is a reasonably healthy alternative. but i wish it were seen for what it is--a last resort, a medicine, something to be used ONLY in certain situations--rather than an "alternative" to breastfeeding. it should not be a "feeding choice", the only choice should be breastfeeding, and formula should only be given if there is absolutely no choice. i think formula should only be available by prescription.

formula is like a wheelchair. i am glad they exist, so that people who really need them can get around. but i would never *choose* to use one if i didn't absolutely need to, just because learning to walk is too difficult. because it could never compare to the real thing.

i have no bad feeling against formula-feeding mothers...most make the choice they do because they don't have the right information or support. and that is the fault of the formula companies, and our bottle-feeding society in general. there must be *informed consent*...go ahead and make the choice, but be aware of all the risks involved BEFORE you do.

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#28 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 07:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wende
That said, I don't think that MDC is the type of place where a FF forum should be put up. I think that will just draw away from the reason that MDC is here to begin with.
Isn't part of the reason MDC is here is to support mamas? Or are ff mamas out of luck in the support department?

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#29 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 07:04 PM
 
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There is a cloth diapering forum but no disposable diapering forum. There's a Case Against Circ forum but no pro circ forum. I think it's kind of along these lines as to why MDC might not be the place to have an entire forum dedicated to formula feeding. Also, a lot of the breastfeeding support is the challenges that go along with it at different ages and stages. There are many "how to" questions and legality questions, questions about foods and medicine and herbs being compatible w/bfing and "how do I cope" type questions. It involves supply, nipple problems, baby temperment and many other things, KWIM? I can't speak w/experience because I haven't ffed but as I understand there are not too many questions about how to formula feed. I can see what you're saying, that you'd like emotional support WRT ffing but I can't see an entire forum dedicated to that. I'm not meaning to offend. I'm trying to be honest. BFing mamas might be in the majority here but IRL we generally are not supported (as can be seen in probably 90% of the posts in the bf forums). So, MDC is the place where the alternative is the norm, KWIM?

*Have you asked the administrators if this issue has been brought up before? Sometimes they already have dealt with the issue and taken a stance on it. *
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#30 of 335 Old 05-28-2004, 07:07 PM
 
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Could those who ff post in the baby forum?
Just like those who dd often post in the baby/toddler forum

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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