Poll: When is it ok for you to mother-lead wean? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: when is it ok to mother-lead wean?
at anytime that the mother wants to wean (from birth on) 35 15.84%
from 12 months on 72 32.58%
from 24 months on 81 36.65%
from 3 years on 12 5.43%
from 4 years on 10 4.52%
never, it's not ok to mother-lead wean 11 4.98%
Voters: 221. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-16-2004, 06:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mariah101
Argh, I just don't understand why I have to say, "My baby had formula so he will most likely get sick and die at a young age, or get some illness that he wouldn't have if I could have BF."
No one has said that, and no one has said that you have to say it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
I'd like to believe he'll be okay, that the month of mm he got helped, that the diet he gets now helps, that he has good genes, etc. etc.
Yes, I'm sure that the month of breastfeeding that he got did help. Of that, I can assure you. And yes, I'm sure he is also likely to be healthier as a result of the organic diet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
I can't go around thinking he's got a death sentence on his head or is going to end up in Sp. Ed. because I didn't BF!
No, please don't go around thinking that. No one has said that.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 09-16-2004, 07:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
I think it's important to find a balance between accepting our wrong choices and forgiving ourselves AND knowing that we would do better if we had the chance to do it again.
Just want to say that "sad choices" aren't the same as "wrong choices," and it seems presumptuous to imply that women facing BF challenges who decide to quit all made the "wrong" decision (which is what I see in your post). I don't know if your word choice was inadvertently judgmental or intentionally so (or maybe I've misunderstood, and you are responding directly to someone saying they made a "wrong decision"?).

I am *very* sad that I stopped BF far earlier than I had planned. But even with the greater knowledge I now have, I still feel I made the right decision, given my situation. I am not saying that this is true for every woman in a similar predicament--some would do things differently armed with better information or support. But others of us feel that we did the best we could in a bad situation, and weren't "wrong" in our actions.
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Old 09-16-2004, 07:54 PM
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What a strange thread here in the last few pages.

Back to the topic of pregnancy and affecting supply and possibly leading to mother led weaning...what if women were told, 'there is this thing that will cause your milk supply to drastically diminish in about four months time, nursing will probably hurt worse than you ever imagined, you might even pray your child stops nursing, you will be very tired and you won't have the feel-good hormones from nursing for many months.'

Would women do it?

That's pregnancy for many, many women. Yes, of course nurslings nurse throughout a pregnancy, go on to tandem. But we're also talking about a woman deliberately (hopefully) doing something to the nursing relationship that very well may impact it so much that mother led weaning at some level occurs.

I don't see many women seriously considering what pregnancy will do to their existing nursing relationship and that is concerning, imo.

I don't think it is wise for a breastfeeding mother to get pregnant before her nursling is 12 months. Maybe even 18 months-2 years of age. There are no guarantees about supply, mother's feelings when nursing, etc. to say 'oh, it will be fine, lots of kids just keep nursing'.

LAM doesn't work for so many women, that's not a 'natural' child spacing method to count on. Best be very protective of the nursing relationship, imo and use better birth control than LAM. I seem to have read somewhere (cannot remember now) about tribes where to have a child less than three years after the previous child brought community disapproval upon the family.

So to answer the OP question: I do not support mother led weaning, as a concept generally speaking. But definitely before 2 years of age I have issues with that.
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Old 09-16-2004, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101

I don't want to be told that formula is fine, because I know it's not the best for my baby. I simply would like to see a softer, more nurturing tone, perhaps...and an aknowledgement that many of the pat responses to people who quit are not always correct and are not realistic.

And I guess I'm saying that there is a very nurturing tone here. If you stick around a while and really get a feel for the forum, you will see that.

I (maybe more than most here) truly understand the pressures of pumping. I hold absolutely no judgement for mamas that simply can't do it. I am lucky enough to be able to do it. But I am stretched to my absolute limit of what I can handle. Hence my quandry as to how to vote in this poll.

If you go back and read my original post here, you will see that the first response to me was Sustainer(who you are currently butting heads with). There were no words of wisdom, no judgement, no suggestions, nothing but a 2 . I don't know how much more gentle, nurturing, and kind you expect, but this is what I have experienced here.


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Old 09-16-2004, 08:57 PM
 
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I haven't had a chance to read the responses to this thread, but wanted to say this:
I can't respond to the poll. There are factors that make this impossible for me, such as medical issues on the part of mother or baby interfering with breastfeeding, whether or not the mother (who is unable to nurse) pumps milk or gets donated milk for her child and more.

To me it's not an age, but a circumstance that would make it ok for a mother to wean her child. I'm in favor of natural weaning ... letting the nursing relationship take it's natural course without interference ... but understand that there are many factors that cause this to seem impossible.

It's sad that in our culture there is a lack of support for breastfeeding mothers and that nursing isn't considered the norm. I think the answers to this poll and question would be vastly different if we lived in a world where nursing is what all mothers do, except for those who cannot physically lactate or cannot breastfeed due to a medical issue ... and if formula was seen as the thing to use if all else fails.

If I was forced to pick an age, I'd say that it would depend on the child and what is respectful to the child. Some children can be respectfully weaned soon after their first year without difficulty, and some cannot be respectfully weaned until after their fourth or fifth birthday or sixth ... birthday.

I'm looking forward to reading the thread...although it may take a while ...a looong looong while! :LOL

Mama to A (12), Z (11), H (9), C (5), A (3) and 4 angels. 

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Old 09-16-2004, 11:14 PM
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That you have found support. Pumping is a job in and of itself. But I haven't seen that here, and I've been lurking for quite awhile, and sometimes posting. I just don't see it. I think the support is more for people who are still trying. I don't think some see how insensitive some comments can sound to someone who has already failed and given their baby formula, and a lot of it .

I did find a forum that someone sent me a link to on another site specifically for dealing with BF grief and support. It is not about formula vs. BM, it is about dealing with feelings, getting help and learning more (which is what I thought this could be originally--this forum, not this particular thread). I think it will be very helpful.

BTW I don't really like the way you characterized my posts to Sustainer as "currently butting heads (with)". I am not the only one who challenged some of her statements and assumptions. Second of all, I'm not here to just plain argue or make someone mad. I'm sorry if some just don't want to hear the realities that exist for failure to BF. If this thread even made one person think, "Hmm," about it, rather than continuing to think that there is no real reason to quit unless you're undergoing chemo or something drastic in the physical realm, than it was worth all the typing I've done!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bec
And I guess I'm saying that there is a very nurturing tone here. If you stick around a while and really get a feel for the forum, you will see that.



I (maybe more than most here) truly understand the pressures of pumping. I hold absolutely no judgement for mamas that simply can't do it. I am lucky enough to be able to do it. But I am stretched to my absolute limit of what I can handle. Hence my quandry as to how to vote in this poll.

If you go back and read my original post here, you will see that the first response to me was Sustainer(who you are currently butting heads with). There were no words of wisdom, no judgement, no suggestions, nothing but a 2 . I don't know how much more gentle, nurturing, and kind you expect, but this is what I have experienced here.


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Old 09-16-2004, 11:24 PM
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Sustainer, I think part of the problem is how literally things can be taken in writing when you don't really know the person. I realize no one has "said that". But the implication is there sometimes...it has been said over and over how inferior formula is, bad for your baby, not even close to the standard...it seems if I don't agree how BAD it is, I'm in disagreement. And I don't really think it is all that bad, it is not what I wanted, it is not the best, but it certainly has helped him to grow into a healthy, active, smart little boy. I don't view it as poison that has potentially affected my son's health negatively forever. That is often the implication and I don't know how you could disagree given some of the comments in this thread and others about BM vs. formula. I know I don't HAVE to say it. I was trying to make a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sustainer
No one has said that, and no one has said that you have to say it.

No, please don't go around thinking that. No one has said that.
But do you see that the implication is always present? I mean, if BM is so good, and formula so bad....what is it that you are prediciting will happen to FF babies?

I reiterate again, I believe in BM and will try again with #2. And I mean try. It's very hard to express this since we are all different and have different levels and tolerance for pain, discomfort, sleep deprivation, sadness, etc. I'll just say I hit my limit with the last two.
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Old 09-16-2004, 11:26 PM
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For clarifying that. I totally agree. I was very sad, still am, but I still feel I did the right thing for me and my baby. It was the right thing for us at that time. I couldn't have done it differently or tried any harder at that point in time.

[QUOTE=kaydeesac]Just want to say that "sad choices" aren't the same as "wrong choices," and it seems presumptuous to imply that women facing BF challenges who decide to quit all made the "wrong" decision (which is what I see in your post). I don't know if your word choice was inadvertently judgmental or intentionally so (or maybe I've misunderstood, and you are responding directly to someone saying they made a "wrong decision"?).
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Old 09-17-2004, 12:34 AM
 
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Any bf is better than none. For me personally I was would be comfortable bf full time until 24 months. After that I would prefer less frequent feedings and to do so mostly at home. I would prefer not to bf past three years myself. Both of my children weaned themselves, my ds at 13 months and my dd at 19 months or so. Expecting baby Angelo edd 10/25/04 and am excited to bf again! Ds now 4 and dd now 2.

Also I have no problems with people bf longer than what I am personally comfortable doing. I fully support bf and think that it is outragous some of teh claims people make in regards to older children bf. I think it is sad that one of the things that make women so beautiful, is made to seem so perverse (sp) in our society. SO SAD! I luv :infant:

Mama to 9 so far:Mother of Joey (20), Dominick (13), Abigail (11), Angelo (8), Mylee (6), Delainey (3), Colton (2) and Baby 8 and Baby 9 coming sometime in July 2013.   If evolution were true, mothers would have three arms!

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Old 09-17-2004, 01:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
I know I don't HAVE to say it. I was trying to make a point.
You said, "Argh, I just don't understand why I have to say..."
And I responded that you don't have to say any such thing. No one has suggested that you should say anything like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
But do you see that the implication is always present? I mean, if BM is so good, and formula so bad....what is it that you are prediciting will happen to FF babies?
You seem to be experiencing guilt, and I think that guilt is causing you to read implications into what we say. Formula fed babies are more likely to experience health problems than breastfed babies.

BTW, I don't think bec meant anything by 'butting heads.' She just meant we have been disagreeing.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 09-17-2004, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Sustainer
BTW, I don't think bec meant anything by 'butting heads.' She just meant we have been disagreeing.

That's exactly what I meant.


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Old 09-18-2004, 05:11 PM
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Please don't presume to tell me what I am feeling or experiencing, or use your presumptions to excuse your own judgemental attitudes and rudeness. I don't really think you give a fig about people who have experienced BF difficulties and had to quit, unless they somehow conform to what you "think" is a "real" BF problem.

And, thanks for reminding me that BF babies are less likely to experience problems that FF babies. Like I don't already realize that and feel sad that my son had formula.

I think it's sad that a BF/Advocacy board seems to be anything but. It appears to be more for people who are BF successfully, or whose problems aren't enough to cause them to quit.

I know I am not the only person feeling this way, because I've received PMs from other women who have had experiences similar to mine. And who agree that posters with your attitude just "don't get it". They haven't wanted to wade into this muck, and I don't blame them, because I'm pretty darned sick of it myself.

This board is clearly not for me, and I am logging off permanently.I don't have the time to wade through it all and it is clear that my point will never be made...because you have already made your mind up that your view and actions are correct, that you can say whatever you want and not have to face the repercussions of offended moms who have failed to BF.

I just wish that anyone who reads this thread comes to realize that there ARE good reasons to stop BF, and to consider the emotional difficulties (PPD, mother-child bond, etc.) are as important to consider as any physical problem that may be encountered. And that quitting, and feeling that you made the right decision, doesn't make you any less supportive of BF. That is why I and others asked for a BF grief forum, where we can share the conflicting emotions we have about our failure. It's a shame they won't start one, because it is needed. I have to go elsewhere on the net for it. And no, it's not a board where you're told "formula is OK" But it is a board where you won't be told you're wrong to use it when you had no other option (remember your "wrong decision" post?) And I think it's sad that it's assumed that because someone has quit and used formula, that means that we're somehow promoting the use of it. (that was one reason given for why members didn't want one. That's just sticking your head in the sand if you ask me.) Using it to keep your baby alive and growing, and being thankful that it exists, and yes, even admitting that your baby thrived and is indistinguishable, or even more advanced than his peers developmentally, is different from being happy about it and advocating for its use in normal circumstances.


You seem to be experiencing guilt, and I think that guilt is causing you to read implications into what we say. Formula fed babies are more likely to experience health problems than breastfed babies.

BTW, I don't think bec meant anything by 'butting heads.' She just meant we have been disagreeing.[/QUOTE]
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Old 09-18-2004, 07:22 PM
 
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This is what I've observed in my area:

1. Not one of my friends BFd beyond one year...all for a variety of reasons: family pressure, they felt like a cow, it was tradition to quit at 12 mon, etc.

2. Poor women are less likely to BF at all. I had a woman tell me with pride that she was giving her 10 day old son raw egg whites because he cried at night and that she wasn't producing enough milk! She gets free formula from WIC so why go through the trouble of BFing?

3. Also, no one that I've invited to go to LLL has. I thought it would help each of these women realize that there are all manner of women nursing, that you can nurse longer than one year, that there is support out there, etc. The women I've invited all failed at BF or didn't try and I felt like a failure myself. If American women as a rule find FFing easier, and they get it free through WIC, the debate on how long to nurse seems odd.

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Old 09-18-2004, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
That is why I and others asked for a BF grief forum, where we can share the conflicting emotions we have about our failure.

Mariah,

I honestly do not understand why you are so upset. I don't think anyone has failed to recognize that there are, indeed, good reasons to not breastfeed. Even reasons beyond the physical.

I did want you to know that there is a thread in FYT for moms who can't breastfeed. There is also a site for mamas grieving the loss of breastfeeding (I don't remember the name of it, you'll have to lurk around here to find it, but it has been talked about extensively).

You seem upset by the fact that we are talking about breastfeeding here, because you weren't able to. I'm just not getting it.


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Old 09-18-2004, 11:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
Please don't presume to tell me what I am feeling or experiencing
I simply said that you SEEM to be experiencing guilt. That's just what it SEEMS like to me. That is my perception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
I don't really think you give a fig about people who have experienced BF difficulties
Think whatever you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
And, thanks for reminding me that BF babies are less likely to experience problems that FF babies. Like I don't already realize that and feel sad that my son had formula.
You asked me: "What is it that you are predicting will happen to FF babies?" I answered: "Formula fed babies are more likely to experience health problems than breastfed babies." If you don't want me to answer a question, then don't ask it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariah101
But it is a board where you won't be told you're wrong to use it when you had no other option (remember your "wrong decision" post?)
Are you still talking to me? Because that wasn't my post.

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 09-19-2004, 01:02 AM
 
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I am sorry you are upset.

I appologize or retract nothing I have said on this thread.

If you want to PM me for further clarification, please do so.

Quote:
I just wish that anyone who reads this thread comes to realize that there ARE good reasons to stop BF, and to consider the emotional difficulties (PPD, mother-child bond, etc.) are as important to consider as any physical problem that may be encountered.
We have acknowledged this over and over.

Society acknowledges this multiple times on a daily basis (just think of the reasons listed in the popular media that celebrities give up bfeeding for).

There is no lack of support for forumla usage.

Supporting formula is not my job and I refuse to be guilted into doing so.

Honestly, while I would never ask someone to leave, I think if you can't hear statements such as, "Formula Fed children have more heath problems then their breastfed counterparts" without becomming defensive of your parenting, this is probably not the place for you *right now*.

(PPD is actually usually *helped* by nursing, please don't pass on further myths. Each mother can decide to feed in the way they want, but don't state "reasons" for FFeeding that could just as easily be reasons to bfeed).

Kay

 

 

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Old 09-19-2004, 01:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by TiredX2
Supporting formula is not my job and I refuse to be guilted into doing so.
This forum is for supporting *breastfeeding* and for advocating *breastfeeding*. As someone said, there are only about a million places people can go for support for quitting breastfeeding and using formula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2

(PPD is actually usually *helped* by nursing, please don't pass on further myths. Each mother can decide to feed in the way they want, but don't state "reasons" for FFeeding that could just as easily be reasons to bfeed).

-Alice, SAHM to dd (2001) and ds (2004) each of whom was a homebirth.jpg, who each self-weaned at 4.5 years bfolderchild.gif, who both fambedsingle2.gif'd, who were bothcd.gif, and both: novaxnocirc.gif.   Also, gd.gif, and goorganic.jpg!

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Old 09-19-2004, 01:28 AM
 
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I have been following this thread, but have not had anything new to add. I just want to say I agree with your post Tired. Well said.

~Joan, Happy mom to 2 beautiful kiddos, one new puppy and 2 lovely felines
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Old 09-20-2004, 01:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree with Tiredx2 as always, oh and Sustainer too
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Old 09-20-2004, 03:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2
(PPD is actually usually *helped* by nursing, please don't pass on further myths. Each mother can decide to feed in the way they want, but don't state "reasons" for FFeeding that could just as easily be reasons to bfeed).
Do you have on hand a link to research showing this? TIA...
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Old 09-20-2004, 09:15 AM
 
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link to Parents Place article
Quote:
Breastfeeding may decrease the rate of PPD, or lessen its impact. A 1994 study by Astbury, published in an Australian medical journal found the rates of PPD to be lower in women who had nursed their babies.

It is known that abrupt weaning (or not nursing following a baby's birth) can cause drastic changes in a mother's hormone levels, which may bring on sadness and even depression. It is recommended that weaning be done gradually, especially in mothers who are prone to PPD.
I don't have time to do more research but feel free to google it yourself if you're interested in finding out more.

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Old 09-21-2004, 03:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky
link to Parents Place article


I don't have time to do more research but feel free to google it yourself if you're interested in finding out more.
We're getting pretty far afield from the OP, but...

I did google the topic, and didn't see much more than this article describing potential benefits of breastfeeding on PPD (and actually, this article didn't tell me much--were the lower PPD rates in breastfeeding mothers due to breastfeeding protecting against/helping diminish PPD, or because women with PPD tend not to breastfeed? I'd have to see the actual study to more accurately assess what it says). So I'm still not sure what the claim that breastfeeding helps PPD is based on....

There were lots of articles on the safety of antidepressants during breastfeeding. It's good to see that so many of the commonly-prescribed meds are believed to be safe for use during nursing.

One other article is by Karen Kleiman, MSW, a PPD specialist. She talks about how breastfeeding *can be* beneficial for women with PPD--but also how the pressure to breastfeed can be detrimental. She doesn't cite any hard stats, but brings an expert perspective to the issue. It's an interesting read:

http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/ppd/...astfeeding.htm
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:49 PM
 
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In regards to the OP, I was grateful that according to approximately 85% of the people who voted it is ok for me to MLW now. Not that I am ready, but it makes me feel better to know that people won't be judging me if it does come to that.

Mothering your Nursing Toddler implies that to stop offering nursies to your child is MLW. The recommended MLW technique (if you must...) is don't offer, don't refuse. I am going to stop offering in the next few months.

I can't really say I'll be doing the don't offer, don't refuse method, because even now I do refuse at times just because I get tired of them popping on and off a dozen times in a half hour, but I usually give in. So I can't say I'll never refuse, but I'll never cut them off cold turkey for sure. I like our morning and evening nursies. It is the millions of popons in between that I could live without.
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:57 PM
 
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The recommended MLW technique (if you must...) is don't offer, don't refuse.
But I do this with my infant and I am not trying to wean her. I don't offer her the breast when she doesn't seem to need anything; I wait for her to start making her hungry faces and sounds. And of course I don't refuse.

I did the same with my oldest when she was about 18 mos - I didn't offer, I waited until she started pulling at my shirt. I wasn't trying to wean then either.
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Old 09-25-2004, 11:28 PM
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I most definitely do not want to be congratulated for using formula or told that it's a great thing, since I already know it's not. And I wouldn't want to go to other boards even if I did want support for that, because MDC its more in line with my parenting values and beliefs.

Also, I knew when I quit that it might worsen my PPD, but at that time I had no choice. I am NOT passing on myths about that, I am sharing what really happened to me. I am a real person with a real story and this is it. I know people don't want to hear it. It would be nicer to believe that anyone who wants to can bf with a bit of information and persistence, but mentally, I HAD to quit, and looking back at how difficult it was for my son to bf I am still glad I did for his sake and the sake of our relationship. There is nothing quite so heartbreaking as seeing your baby cry and fuss every single time you try to feed him, and feeling yourself sinking into an abyss and feeling like a crappy mother and a failure.

I never expected to have such a hard time being understood here, but there you go. I just want to say again, asking for some sensitivity and correcting some misperceptions about when breastfeeding really can and cannot occur are not the same as asking for support of formula. I''m sorry that I apparently wasn't very good at making the distinction.

I truly wish there was a bf grief forum here. It is really needed.



Quote:
Originally Posted by TiredX2
I am sorry you are upset.

I appologize or retract nothing I have said on this thread.

If you want to PM me for further clarification, please do so.



We have acknowledged this over and over.

Society acknowledges this multiple times on a daily basis (just think of the reasons listed in the popular media that celebrities give up bfeeding for).

There is no lack of support for forumla usage.

Supporting formula is not my job and I refuse to be guilted into doing so.

Honestly, while I would never ask someone to leave, I think if you can't hear statements such as, "Formula Fed children have more heath problems then their breastfed counterparts" without becomming defensive of your parenting, this is probably not the place for you *right now*.

(PPD is actually usually *helped* by nursing, please don't pass on further myths. Each mother can decide to feed in the way they want, but don't state "reasons" for FFeeding that could just as easily be reasons to bfeed).

Kay
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