Barbara Walters "offended" by BIFP - Page 5 - Mothering Forums
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#121 of 320 Old 05-28-2005, 09:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
This logic is harmful. The idea is harmful. Who the hell is it harming to NOT cover up? Who exactly is going to be destroyed by seeing a breast being used for more than effective advertising? Everybody loves tits when they CHOOSE to see them, PAY to see them, BEG to see them.. but a woman uses them to feed a child and all the sudden they become such an eye sore. You know why it's harmful? It's harming our daughters and sons right to be fed and it's hindering our daughters right to breastfeed our future grandchildren without scrutiny and intolerance.

That's like asking why it's harmful for a gay person to stay in the closet. I'm not living my life to satisfy anyones societal hangups. Don't like it, tough crap. As an American, you are not guaranteed the right to NOT be offended.
I think this needed a third repeat. It is perfectly stated. All you mama's have said it beautifully
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#122 of 320 Old 05-28-2005, 09:14 PM
 
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It's things like this that make me sooo happy to live in Europe What a pain in the ...to have to worry about these silly hang ups people have about breasts! I mean I understand, I come from a Christian conservative family, but after three summers of seeing bare breasted women (all shapes, sizes and ages ) in any park, lake... or any sunny spot they can find, you get over it, fast. And then realize they, breasts, are normal not embarrassing.

MrsMoe, when I went home last year I BF in the front row of my in-laws church (they are the ministers) without a blanket!!!! I was very discrete though, in respect for them. They were very supportive of me, I was surprised. They even joked about it afterward. I think they saw that I was being polite but, not ashamed of, well, motherhood.

I like the way HerthElde said it,
"Yes, in our society breasts are considered sexual. But that is exactly why people need to see babies nurse!!!! So that we can desexualize the breast, or at least as a society, see it as dual purpose."[/I]

PS I think MrsMoe left this conversation. ???
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#123 of 320 Old 05-28-2005, 09:21 PM
 
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Thankfully, I don't give a damn what Barbara Walters thinks of me. But, if I were the woman on the plane beside her, I wonder which would bother her more...my baby breastfeeding and gurgling...or my hungry baby screaming for the entire flight? I know which would bother me!

I NIP. Sometimes I'm less comfortable than others, but if the baby needs to be fed, then the baby needs to be fed. If someone finds the 1/4" of skin that's exposed between my shirt and baby's head offensive, then they need their head checked. As others on here have said - if you're offended by breasts, then address Timberlake & Janet Jackson...address Paris Hilton's "burger commercial"...address Pamela Anderson - and leave me and my baby alone!

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#124 of 320 Old 05-28-2005, 10:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by QueeTheBean
--don't let the rest of the world dictate to you! We have the right to breastfeed in public---and by doing so, we normalize breastfeeding again for our daughters and grandaughters.


l, <>< wife to my sweetie, proud mama to 3 cubs, 2 who clw & 1 that i i ep for . baby was evicted early by induction due to severe pre-e/hellp syndrome
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#125 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 01:13 AM
 
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Something else that is bugging me about this whole thing is the women on the View are suppose to be supportive of women, feminists,yet they seem so narrow minded and really like they aren't truly supportive of women. I love that I don't have to cover myself (or shouldn't have too anyway). To be able to feed our children with out shame or embarassment that is something they should be talking about. Because their audience has got to be SAHM or WOHM. And the people with the stares and crappy comments should be ashamed by their rudeness not a mom feeding her baby. UGH! :

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#126 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 01:29 AM
 
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The woman who wants to oppose the WHO breastfeeding resolution also claims to be a feminist. She's concerned that less access to formula will cost women's liberation many of its gains.

Honestly...not trying to offend anyone, but I've never found most self-proclaimed feminists that I've met to be terribly supportive of other women. If you don't have the same agenda they do, they treat you like a traitor. Of course, I may have just met the really crazy ones...

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#127 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 02:12 AM
 
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MrsMoe as a profoundly, deeply religious person, I am also very concerned with modesty in dress and behavior. As such I try to keep my body covered at a level that most people only achieve during wintertime. :LOL

That said ...

I have NIP'd everywhere and anywhere. Including while marching in a parade down Fifth Avenue in New York City (using a sling ). It is my right to do so.

And when I NIP I make every effort *for my own comfort* to remain covered. That's me and my body and my comfort level. And I can achieve this without blankets or covers or anything like that, just because, well, it's important to me to (a) be covered and (b) to nurse anywhere and everywhere my child needs to be nursed.

And anyone who is uncomfortable with "bare" NIP is regularly uncomfortable with my kind of NIP, too.

It's the point of the thing.

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#128 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by merpk
MrsMoe as a profoundly, deeply religious person...
I've actually found that the truly religous people that I know - the ones with deep faith, as opposed to those who use their Bible as a rulebook to beat other people up with - have all been supportive of my breastfeeding. They seem to take the view that God made women's bodies in such a way that they can feed babies, so that's what we should be doing. In fact, it doesn't ever seem to have crossed their minds that there's any other way to feed a child.

I know my MIL and my great-aunt, who are both Christians, both breastfed their children.

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#129 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 01:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by merpk
And anyone who is uncomfortable with "bare" NIP is regularly uncomfortable with my kind of NIP, too.

It's the point of the thing.

THIS is the issue. People jump all over the "exposure" aspect because that's the only claim they feel could possibly have any legitimacy. But, as some of us have experienced, even when there is not exposure (for whatever reason it may be, whether via deep spiritual and religious committment or just by accident) people are still squeamish, offended, uncomfortable, etc. It is NOT seeing someone's boob, nipple, or any other part of a woman's anatomy. As we all know, red-blooded American men (and everyone else) have no problem with breasts in public. It is the ACT of BREASTFEEDING a BABY that people have a problem with. Of course, they can't come right out and say it because it doesn't make any sense. And I don't know why they feel that way, I honestly don't. Part of it is socialization, I'm sure, and there are just some of us who have been led in our lives to question that socialization and so we have moved beyond it. Others may not yet have found a reason to do so, and so they go on perpetuating the judgement, the ridicule. I don't know if it's the issue of giving women power...I don't know. But I do know that it ain't the boobie.
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#130 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mrs Dimples
THIS is the issue. People jump all over the "exposure" aspect because that's the only claim they feel could possibly have any legitimacy. But, as some of us have experienced, even when there is not exposure (for whatever reason it may be, whether via deep spiritual and religious committment or just by accident) people are still squeamish, offended, uncomfortable, etc. It is NOT seeing someone's boob, nipple, or any other part of a woman's anatomy. As we all know, red-blooded American men (and everyone else) have no problem with breasts in public. It is the ACT of BREASTFEEDING a BABY that people have a problem with. Of course, they can't come right out and say it because it doesn't make any sense. And I don't know why they feel that way, I honestly don't. Part of it is socialization, I'm sure, and there are just some of us who have been led in our lives to question that socialization and so we have moved beyond it. Others may not yet have found a reason to do so, and so they go on perpetuating the judgement, the ridicule. I don't know if it's the issue of giving women power...I don't know. But I do know that it ain't the boobie.

yes, you hit the nail on the head-sad, but true!
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#131 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 04:14 PM
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no. it's not you're job to deal with them, but if you want people to be sensitive to your feelings, and comfort level it has to begin with being sensitive to theirs. Otherwise you're imposing your issues on them and it's not their job to deal with your issues either. I am a breastfeeding mom. I did just take a flight with my son and yes, nursing during take off and landing is just about the best way to get him to remain calm and keep his teeny ears popping. HOWEVER. This is my feeling, not necessarily the feelings of the guy sitting next to me, or within his comfort level. He paid for his flight. He's going somewhere too, home or ot see relative, or on business, whatever. He deserves a comfortable flight where he feels ok too. Therefore I have no problem wearing a button down sweater and covering up enough while nursing so that I'm not imposing myself on someone who has no choice but to sit next to me and watch or at the very least know what I'm doing. If I didn't, I'd be forcing my issues on him ;^)
I agree 100%.
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#132 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 04:21 PM
 
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I agree 100%.
No surprise there.
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#133 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 04:48 PM
 
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Gag. That hypotheticl guy, would most likely be staring down your blouse one way or the other.
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#134 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 05:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
...address Pamela Anderson - and leave me and my baby alone!
But if you address Pamela, please do so kindly; she used those breasts to nurse her babies, and from what I know, she also homebirths, cloth diapers, and has never had a nanny!

Is there a simultaneous phone-in and email campaign along with the nurse-in? I think there should be if there isn't. I agree with the poster who said the calls should go directly to the network. They may take action if we overload their communication systems!
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#135 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 05:14 PM
 
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Yes, Mrs Dimples you are right, sadly.
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#136 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 08:00 PM
 
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Pam Anderson also is pro cosleeping.

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#137 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 08:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by merpk
MrsMoe as a profoundly, deeply religious person, I am also very concerned with modesty in dress and behavior. As such I try to keep my body covered at a level that most people only achieve during wintertime. :LOL
In the Christian religion for example, there are dozens upon dozens of images of Mary nursing Jesus. She often does not meet current Western cultural standards of modesty because it didn't matter if a nursing mother exposed her breast at the time those things were painted....either that or the act of nursing was one to exalt, not to be ashamed of in those cultures (say Italy a few hundred years ago for instance...)

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#138 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 10:45 PM
 
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMoe
You havet he right to your opinion, as I have the right to mine. I don't see how a thin blanket or other type of fabric to cover an exposed breast/nipple to make it more discreet would hurt anybody.
When your opinion is to dictate to everyone else how they must feed their baby, it is no longer just "your opinion"

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It's not breastfeeding that would be offensive, it's the breast or nipple being exposed.
Says who? Just because you find it so, does not mean the rest of the world has to conform to your expectations.

Quote:
Being nude is natural too, but that doesn't mean it is acceptable to be nude in public.
I have said it before and will say it again. The ONLY thing you can compare feeding a baby to is EATING- not being naked, not pooping, not having sex, not passing gas. EATING. If a woman can bottlefeed her baby in public, she can breastfeed their as well. Period.

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#139 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 10:46 PM
 
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[QUOTE=MrsMoe]But why bare your nipple and tit for the entire world to see? How harmful is it to cover the bulk of your breast?
QUOTE]

Tit. Very nice.

How harmful is catching a glimpse of a bare breast, really?

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#140 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 10:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by yssa
If I didn't, I'd be forcing my issues on him ;^)
So, no matter what someone's personal feelings are on an "issue," I am morally obligated to accomodate them? If I sit next to someone on a plane who has beliefs about women wearing long skirts and not pants, or being covered from head to toe, am I excpected to accomodate his belief system because he paid for his flight and should not be offended?

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#141 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 11:09 PM
 
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I love you annettemarie. No one has the right to not be offended. My baby would never eat with a blanket over her head and I don't blame her. NIP normalizes it which will hopefully foster a breastfeeding culture. I cannot believe I am reading this tripe on mdc.

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#142 of 320 Old 05-29-2005, 11:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by annettemarie
How harmful is catching a glimpse of a bare breast, really?
It's not harmful, people do it all the time. It's not unusual to see cleavage, or just the bare top of a breast with a low cut shirt. Even if we were arguing from the point of view of exposure, it would still be more acceptable to see a partly bared breast because a baby is eating rather than because a person was wearing a low cut shirt or swimming suit. And, sheesh, men show their nipples in public. I still don't see how they can get away with that!!!

I personally don't like when my daughter pushes my shirt up to bare the skin of my breast, but she does it frequently. I just bring it down a bit and let her put her hands up under the shirt, which is really what she wants, the skin to skin contact.
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#143 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 12:04 AM
 
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and oh noes!!!!1111 women can legally go topless here too.

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#144 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 12:10 AM
 
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I am realizing now that the ladies on the View LIKE the contraversy. They love it when they are making moms mad. I think the only thing that would change things is writing to those above them...producers, station owners, maybe complaining to their advertisers.
We have bingo. If someone here has the stomach to write down the most consistent advertisers on The View for a week, that would be good. We could start a letter-writing campaign and hit Babs and Star where it hurts.

And regarding the hypothetical guy on the airplane: My husband was at a kids' party at a Chuck E. Cheese type place, next to a woman awkwardly trying to nurse and cover the baby with the famous Light Blanket. He said to her, "My wife has been breastfeeding since 2000, so please don't feel uncomfortable on my behalf." He says the woman had such a look of relief on her face and nursed babe comfortably after that. So, I think it is patronizing of the poster who posed the airplane scenario to assume the guy was anti-NIP.

By the way, AnnetteMarie for president.
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#145 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 12:39 AM
 
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Pam Anderson also is pro cosleeping.
She also breastfed- she made sure when she got her implants that she would be able to breastfeed! She's actually pretty AP
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#146 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 01:43 AM
 
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But if you address Pamela, please do so kindly; she used those breasts to nurse her babies, and from what I know, she also homebirths, cloth diapers, and has never had a nanny!
Good for her...I didn't mean anything about her personally. It's just that she's one of the biggest examples of the "boobs as a commodity/boobs as titillation" (sorry about the pun) that I could think of. It annoys me that Pamela and her low-cut, sleazy outfits seems to arouse less negative commentary than a mom sitting on a bench in the mall feeding a hungry baby. I'm very glad to hear that she breastfeeds, though!

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#147 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 07:43 AM
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Something I have learned in life. Some people cannot be reasoned with, nor are they able to see the view on both sides of the fence.
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#148 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 09:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Soxfan Mom
We have bingo. If someone here has the stomach to write down the most consistent advertisers on The View for a week, that would be good. We could start a letter-writing campaign and hit Babs and Star where it hurts.

.
Awesome idea.

I am going to *think about doing this. Wouldn't be hard, I could tape the show and fast forward past those women.

Soxfan you rock.

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#149 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 10:25 AM
 
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MrsMoe, I'm not trying to pick on you, but I didn't see if you had an answer for this. What am I supposed to do if my DS refuses to eat with a blanket over his head? A light blanket doesn't work for everyone. It just doesn't, and it's really not fair of you to expect everyone to try.

FTR, I NIP openly anywhere and everywhere, and I don't care who I offend! :nana:
And I'm not sure if we'll have the gas money to go to the nurse-in, but we're going to try! I've never been to a nurse-in before. Should be interesting

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#150 of 320 Old 05-30-2005, 10:37 AM
 
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MrsMoe, I'm not trying to pick on you, but I didn't see if you had an answer for this. What am I supposed to do if my DS refuses to eat with a blanket over his head? A light blanket doesn't work for everyone. It just doesn't, and it's really not fair of you to expect everyone to try.
I agree.

Not to mention everyone is offended by something. Will you wear a burka to avoid offending someone?

Anti nip comments have been shown to cause some people to stop bf and that is so sad. A baby's health and comfort is more important than anyone possibly being offended.

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