Church said breastmilk is bodily fluid, encouraged formula. - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 01:20 PM
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and much to all these wonderful people willing to take action!
I think it is important that this issue be tackled immediately, if not, i am afraid it will give formula companies the ability to stop daycares from allowing infants to have EBM.
Playing devil's advocate here - I can see them saying...'Breastmilk is a bodily fluid. Daycare workers are not infallible and what if the EBM of a mom with HIV is accidentally given to YOUR infant. Stop all EBM and use formula!!'
Or some crap like that.
I think we should start now on passing laws that allow daycare workers or other people who will be giving our babies EBM, proper training...not sure what that would look like right now...
anyone else help me out with this?
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#122 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
and much to all these wonderful people willing to take action!
I think it is important that this issue be tackled immediately, if not, i am afraid it will give formula companies the ability to stop daycares from allowing infants to have EBM.
Playing devil's advocate here - I can see them saying...'Breastmilk is a bodily fluid. Daycare workers are not infallible and what if the EBM of a mom with HIV is accidentally given to YOUR infant. Stop all EBM and use formula!!'
Or some crap like that.
I think we should start now on passing laws that allow daycare workers or other people who will be giving our babies EBM, proper training...not sure what that would look like right now...
anyone else help me out with this?
OMGoodness....how scary! I can totally see some uneducatated twit saying that and trying to pass legislation that states the same thing!!!!! Oh wow, it really puts into perspective how important it is to take action immeadately! Very good point!
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#123 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 01:31 PM
 
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[QUOTE=MamaInTheBooniesI can see them saying...'Breastmilk is a bodily fluid. Daycare workers are not infallible and what if the EBM of a mom with HIV is accidentally given to YOUR infant. Stop all EBM and use formula!!'
Or some crap like that.
[/QUOTE]

An easy solution to that would be to give each child a name tag (our church does it by putting one on the childs back so the daycare worker knows who the child is anyway) and then mark the bottles with the childs name....which we do anyway with Riley's sippy cups.

Sarah - wife, mom to Riley 7/9/03 and Jacob 7/15/05 and Hannah 1/5/11 a successful vbac.gif
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#124 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by soccerchic21
An easy solution to that would be to give each child a name tag (our church does it by putting one on the childs back so the daycare worker knows who the child is anyway) and then mark the bottles with the childs name....which we do anyway with Riley's sippy cups.
But I can see something happening like an older babe who is on the move taking his bottle or cup with him and putting it down and another babe drinking out of it. This happens all the time at my home and anywhere else my little middle sees a bottle or cup hanging out, he ALWAYS tries to take it or drink out of it. Not trying to be the devil's advocate, but I just see the reason why not in that instance.
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#125 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 01:43 PM
 
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Examples of church nursery policies that include breastfeeding and expressed breast milk:
http://www.fpcberkeley.org/ecm_nursery_main.asp
http://www.lexumcsc.com/nursery.htm


OSHA on breastmilk handling:
http://www.osha-slc.gov/pls/oshaweb/...ONS&p_id=20952

CDC on breastmilk in childcare setting:
http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/faq/index.htm
" “Human breast milk has been implicated in perinatal transmission of HIV, and HBsAg has been found in the milk of mothers infected with HBV. However, occupational exposure to human breast milk has not been implicated in the transmission of HIV nor HBV infection to health-care workers. Moreover, the health-care worker will not have the same type of intensive exposure to breast milk as the nursing neonate. Whereas universal precautions do not apply to human breast milk, gloves may be worn by health-care workers in situations where exposures to breast milk might be frequent, for example, in breast milk banking.” "

{pertainant info in bold}


Christianity and bfing(TONS of info available) one example:
http://pages.tca.net/mpwalker/christianparentvirt.html
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#126 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 01:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
Playing devil's advocate here - I can see them saying...'Breastmilk is a bodily fluid. Daycare workers are not infallible and what if the EBM of a mom with HIV is accidentally given to YOUR infant. Stop all EBM and use formula!!'
Or some crap like that.
CDC has an answer for that already.
"What can happen if someone else's breastmilk is given to another child?
HIV and other serious infectious diseases can be transmitted through breastmilk. However, the risk of infection from a single bottle of breastmilk, even if the mother is HIV positive, is extremely small. For women who do not have HIV or other serious infectious diseases, there is little risk to the child who receives her breastmilk. See Diseases and Conditions for more information."
http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/faq/index.htm
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#127 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 02:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by poppyqwn
But I can see something happening like an older babe who is on the move taking his bottle or cup with him and putting it down and another babe drinking out of it. This happens all the time at my home and anywhere else my little middle sees a bottle or cup hanging out, he ALWAYS tries to take it or drink out of it. Not trying to be the devil's advocate, but I just see the reason why not in that instance.
you are right that is a good point.

Sarah - wife, mom to Riley 7/9/03 and Jacob 7/15/05 and Hannah 1/5/11 a successful vbac.gif
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#128 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 02:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppyqwn
But I can see something happening like an older babe who is on the move taking his bottle or cup with him and putting it down and another babe drinking out of it. This happens all the time at my home and anywhere else my little middle sees a bottle or cup hanging out, he ALWAYS tries to take it or drink out of it. Not trying to be the devil's advocate, but I just see the reason why not in that instance.
But even in that example, the wrong bottle of formula is much more dangerous to some children.
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#129 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Missy
But even in that example, the wrong bottle of formula is much more dangerous to some children.
Ahhh..also a very good point. Two of my kiddos had a milk allergy which required me to cut all dairy out of my diet, I could only imagine what kind of a reaction they would have ihad if they got ahold of cow's milk based formula. I think tho that the church will still use that as an arguement to back up their policy even tho I don't think it will hold water, KWIM?
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#130 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank You. These pages printed beautifully, and now I can write my letter.

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#131 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 03:19 PM
 
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http://www.milksucks.com/breasttop2.jpg

print that out and iron it on a shirt

I'm Andrea - I have three boys - 12 year old twins & an 11 year old

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#132 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 03:20 PM
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There are always going to be accidents and mix-ups. I guess, i would much rather prefer that my baby be accidentally given EBM, than formula, kwim?
It just really scares me that uneducated people have so much power, yanno?
We educated moms need to stand up for babies everywhere.
So, how do we go about this? Or maybe I should ask, what can I do? Do I need to write my legislator? Or the president? Or LLL?

I do think we need to get more people thinking and acting on this issue.
I want to write more, but have to go...i'll be back, tho
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#133 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 03:28 PM
 
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Ahhh..also a very good point. Two of my kiddos had a milk allergy which required me to cut all dairy out of my diet, I could only imagine what kind of a reaction they would have ihad if they got ahold of cow's milk based formula. I think tho that the church will still use that as an arguement to back up their policy even tho I don't think it will hold water, KWIM?
As I said in an earlier post, my youngest has both dairy and soy allergies, and the wrong bottle of formula could kill him in minutes. Is the church willing to be held accountable if a baby with undxed allergies is given that "safe" packet of formula that they were distributing? It just seems they're making some extremely uneducated, dangerous assumptions.
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#134 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 03:29 PM
 
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Very interesting thread and situation. This church would not be my cup of tea (for a whole host of reasons) but it is interesting to see the assumptions and fears that are out there about bfing. Ergh...so much work to do.

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But I can see something happening like an older babe who is on the move taking his bottle or cup with him and putting it down and another babe drinking out of it.
This is why I refused one daycare over another. The first one said that they won't allow ebm in the toddler room because they give sippy cups throughout the day and could not control it if another child happened to pick it up (i.e. they won't hold my daughter as I requested while she gets ebm from a sippy). The daycare we use has no problem with holding her or just serving her ebm at lunch and then keeping track of or putting away the cup. There are ways to ensure that breastmilk is not mishandled and imo good thoughtful daycares will figure something out.

Now getting my daughter to actually drink the ebm from a sippy is another issue... :LOL
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#135 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 04:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies
I think it is important that this issue be tackled immediately, if not, i am afraid it will give formula companies the ability to stop daycares from allowing infants to have EBM.
Playing devil's advocate here - I can see them saying...'Breastmilk is a bodily fluid. Daycare workers are not infallible and what if the EBM of a mom with HIV is accidentally given to YOUR infant. Stop all EBM and use formula!!' <snip>I think we should start now on passing laws that allow daycare workers or other people who will be giving our babies EBM, proper training...
Hmmm, I wonder first, how often do daycare centers refuse to accept ebm and second, whether an attempt to be proactive and legislate to protect that right would generate more opposition than support. My impression, although I have no facts to back it up, is that now, there are mothers all over the US quietly taking their ebm to their daycare providers with no problems. After all, this church is the first instance I've heard of childcare providers refusing ebm.

What happens if it becomes the subject of lots of media coverage, formula companies start advocating formula as safer and ff parents start pulling thier children out of facilities that accept bottles of ebm? Most moms in the US ff; even more use formula bottles instead of pumping for day care. If ff parents became terrified of HIV and other diseases being transmitted to their children via accidental feeding of ebm, and pulled their children out of facilites that accept ebm, I don't think there are any laws that could turn that around, kwim?

I don't know of any sources that state whether or not HIV has ever been transmitted by feeding a baby the wrong bottle of ebm, but I'd be willing to bet it hasn't. I think it would only take one documented case to create a huge scare.

I've quoted the following from one of my earlier messages in this thread about ebm being low risk for transmission. I'm going to start a new thread asking people to post supportive ebm and childcare guidelines and information and one asking if anyone knows of other childcare facilities that do not allow ebm.

Sarah

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahwebb
According to the link [link added: http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/...d.fr.home.html] I included in my letter to the church, the protocol for handling a situation where ebm has been given to the wrong baby is the same as it would be for exposure to blood or other risky body fluids. However, the risk of transmission by feeding a baby the wrong bottle is considered very small. The link cited the CDC as their primary source. I haven't been able to find the information on the CDC website, but I have written the CDC to request it.
http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/...d.fr.home.html
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#136 of 173 Old 07-27-2005, 05:36 PM
 
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Here is an example of one mom's daycare refusing to take ebm:
http://www.lalecheleague.org/ubb/For...ML/000888.html
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#137 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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{My address & name}


July 29, 2005
Anita Weldon, Discovery Island
Northridge Church
49555 N. Territorial Rd.
Plymouth MI 48170

Dear Madam:
My daughters and I have attended for a while now, and we really enjoyed our time here. Church was a privilege I could withdraw, not something I forced them to do. I recently started bringing my son Nicholas to Discovery Island because he was starting to 'talk' in church.

Nicholas did well on his first visit, but at the second visit they recommended bringing a bottle. For the third visit I brought a bottle of breastmilk. The caregiver told me it was a bodily fluid, and recommended the use of formula as safer. I was strongly encouraged to let her use the free formula.

I feel that this is the wrong message. Many new moms may be unduly influenced when the church recommends formula. Our culture already makes breastfeeding a difficult thing, when it should be common and natural.

Attached you will find article from OSHA and the CDC which state that breast milk is not considered a hazardous bodily fluid.

Please consider changing your policy to accept the best milk that God has made. At a minimum I would like to see the encouragement of formula use for a breastfed infant end.

Sincerely,
Susan XXXXX
Concerned Mom

Jesus was Breastfed

OSHA on breastmilk handling:
http://www.osha-slc.gov/pls/oshaweb...IONS&p_id=20952

CDC on breastmilk in childcare setting:
http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/faq/index.htm
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#138 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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When I checked my messages after work yesterday. Anita Weldon, the head of discovery Island called me.

She stated that she had been trying to reach me for a couple of days and to call her back. I left a message for her with my work phone number early this morning and am waiting for her reply. She did not say what it was about.
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#139 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 12:58 PM
 
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I just read the first post so don't mind me if this was said already. That is very sad indeed. How ever not all Churches are that way.. I nursed right in there in the nursery now in the toddler room. I went through a stage where my best friend of 8yrs (no longer friend) Put me down about nursing him past a yr. It's was very hard on me. I remember talking about it to a caregiver in the nursery. She was so supportive telling me to not stop. And They never had a prob the 2 times I have brought breast milk in. But normally I would get there 10mins. early then while dh checked in the older kiddos I would nurse AJ. The Nurse again when I picked him up. They even change his cloth dipes!!!
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#140 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 01:00 PM
 
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Ok so I just read your letter. It sounds great. I'm so curious what she will say now!!
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#141 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just got off the phone with Anita, the director for Discovery Island. She was very nice. She encouraged me to nurse anywhere in church, and was a nursing mom hearself.

Apparently it was a pediatrician who put a baby through a gruelling set of tests because a bottle was switched which caused this policy. She says that they want to avoid another family being subjected to that.

She also said that she receieved more than a dozen letters from angry people about this issue.

Please lay off. I understand you mean well, but the matter has been resolved.

Sue
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#142 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 01:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppyqwn
But I can see something happening like an older babe who is on the move taking his bottle or cup with him and putting it down and another babe drinking out of it. This happens all the time at my home and anywhere else my little middle sees a bottle or cup hanging out, he ALWAYS tries to take it or drink out of it. Not trying to be the devil's advocate, but I just see the reason why not in that instance.
In the nurseries we have used they had the no foods/drinks rule. They could provide a snack and kids had access to water, but only kids on laps were given bottles w/other than water in them. Since church is usually not an all day thing it worked pretty well (most kids can go 1-2 hours without carrying a sippy of juice around).

 

 

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#143 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 01:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stockingup99
I just got off the phone with Anita, the director for Discovery Island. She was very nice. She encouraged me to nurse anywhere in church, and was a nursing mom hearself.


I *thought* the issue was that you couldn't leave a bottle of EBM. Are they changing the policy? Couldn't you *always* nurse anywhere you wanted?

 

 

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#144 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 01:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by TiredX2


I *thought* the issue was that you couldn't leave a bottle of EBM. Are they changing the policy? Couldn't you *always* nurse anywhere you wanted?

I would hope a nursing mother could nurse anywhere in church..if not then they have bigger problems.....so what is going on with the EMB? What if a mom is not comfortable with nursing in church...then she has to give formula still?

Sarah - wife, mom to Riley 7/9/03 and Jacob 7/15/05 and Hannah 1/5/11 a successful vbac.gif
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#145 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 01:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poppyqwn
But I can see something happening like an older babe who is on the move taking his bottle or cup with him and putting it down and another babe drinking out of it. This happens all the time at my home and anywhere else my little middle sees a bottle or cup hanging out, he ALWAYS tries to take it or drink out of it. Not trying to be the devil's advocate, but I just see the reason why not in that instance.
In the nurseries we have used they had the no foods/drinks rule. They could provide a snack and kids had access to water, but only kids on laps were given bottles w/other than water in them. Since church is usually not an all day thing it worked pretty well (most kids can go 1-2 hours without carrying a sippy of juice around).

 

 

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#146 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, I could always nurse anywhere it church. My point was that she encouraged me to. My previous church said not even in the parking lot.

The bottle of breastmilk issue is to protect other kids from the gruelling tests of the doctors (when they overract). At this point I blame the doctor who did that. Months of testing?

There is a nice 'nursing room' with a TV for moms to shy to nurse in church.

These are volunteers. If I were paying them to watch my child I would push the issue further.

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#147 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 02:12 PM
 
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They NEED to have some kind of supportive statement on their site, at the very least, which is in favor of breastfeeding then! To just say "no breastmilk, only formula" is VERY damaging to say the least. A simple statement to clarify their stand is needed, such as "we highly encourage all moms to nurse their babies/children in chuch and welcome you to do so at any time. However, if you so choose to leave your child in the nursery, we are unable to accept a bottle of EBM due to a past event where a baby was given the wrong bottle. We will be prompt in calling you from service to nurse your child when the situation calls for it." Or something like that .

I am glad you feel better, BUT you are in a perfect position to really help other moms, not just yourself. This policy of theirs can really damage the nursing relationship of other moms/babies and that's awful! They obviously don't have things clearly spelled out otherwise you wouldn't have felt the way you do. Can you imagine how many other moms have felt this way over the years, and who probably weren't as strong as you or had the support you have had (US ) to get you through it?

Just a simple, positive statement is ALL they need if they are unwilling to change thier policy. They should at least give that to nursing moms!
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#148 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 02:31 PM
 
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it seems like they could just require moms who bring EBM to write the name of the child on the bottle or put some sort of label on it...that would prevent a mix up and thus the tests...

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#149 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 02:34 PM
 
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I'm really confused here.

If they won't take EBM then they really should have a no drinks of any kind policy. What if a dairy allergic kid gets fed the wrong kind of formula. Woudn't that be even more dangerous then the wrong EBM?

They should just shut down the nursery if they are so worried about kids getting the wrong bottle. Then all the babes can stay with their parents and consume whatever the parents choose to feed them.

Mom to Kira March 2009
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#150 of 173 Old 07-29-2005, 03:40 PM
 
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I'm sorry but I don't see how the issue is resolved at all. They still don't take EBM but they take formula. I agree that one is just as dangerous as another if given to the wrong child. They should not be feeding any child at all if they are afraid of a mix-up.

I still think their policy is horrible and should be changed. What about mom's that have to pump for their babies. I pumped for 11 weeks until my dd nursed. I guess I would not be welcome at that church nursery unless I gave formula or fed her myself! Unacceptable discrimination against breastfeeding moms!

I actually think we need to send more letters to get them to change this policy. It will turn breastfeeding moms away and churches should not turn people away.
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