Just back from the bookstore--vent!! - Mothering Forums

Just back from the bookstore--vent!!

kezia's Avatar kezia (TS)
09:13 PM Liked: 0
#1 of 16
01-15-2003 | Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 2001
I'm thinking about ways I can prepare my 2 1/2 yr old for the arrival of his new sib in a few months, so was looking at some children's books about pregnancy, new babies, etc. while at the bookstore this afternoon. I picked up one called "What to Expect When the New Baby Arrives" (yup--you guessed it, from the authors of the infamous What to Expect Series. I flipped through it briefly, and was pleasantly surprised to see several illustrations of mommies nursing their babies, and not a bottle in sight. Then I get to the page about "What Babies Eat", and finally see the bottlefeeding mom alongside a breastfeeding mom. Fine, I can handle that. Then I read the description about how babies drink "special milk" made by their mommies. They even talked about how the baby gets the milk from the mommy's nipples. THEN--you knew something bad was coming --they say something like "or some mommies go to the store and buy this special milk and feed it to their babies with bottles". I mean, I don't expect them to go into detail about the drawbacks of formula, but they make it sound like you can just go to the store and buy breastmilk!!! Don't we already have enough people who think there's no difference between the two?
Meiri's Avatar Meiri
12:51 AM Liked: 173
#2 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 8,869
Joined: Aug 2002
Part of me says if you otherwise like the book and will find it useful, buy it and cross out the lie and pencil in a fact. Some mommies cannot feed their babies this special milk and have to go to the store to buy substitute milk.

Another part of me says don't reward them for lying with your money.

Yes we have far too many people who think there's no difference.
DaryLLL's Avatar DaryLLL
12:42 PM Liked: 11
#3 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 13,153
Joined: Aug 2002
I take issue with this, as breastmilk is not "special." It is normal, just as your other body fluids are normal. If artificial blood was available, would your own blood then be "special?"

Artificial baby milk is not natural. It is an adulterated, processed food. I would think, if a previously bfed toddler saw his mom feeding their new baby, he would think, baby is getting mom's milk, like I did. (Maybe you took pictures of him doing it? share those now.) Then if he saw a bottlefed baby somewhere, he could have explained to him, that milk might be the mom's milk, put into a bottle, or that it is cow's milk, b/c that mommy couldn't or wouldn't give the baby her own.

So, neither is "special." No need to dumb it down so much for your toddler/preschooler. One is human milk, made for humans. One is cow's milk, made for baby cows, given to humans, as a substitute. According to the maturity and language skills of the older child, it can be explained if necc, that the ABM is processed, water and vits and minerals added.

There is a children's book, called Breasts, which is good for siblings. I don't have the author's name in front of me, but I kow it is Japanese. A cute book, similar to the one Everyone Poops and others in that series.
kezia's Avatar kezia (TS)
02:04 PM Liked: 0
#4 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 223
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Good point, DaryLLL! I wasn't even thinking of that--I was just ticked that they presented it as formula being the SAME as mommy's milk.

We already have the Breasts book, and several others about nursing, but I'm not really worried about ds understanding the breastfeeding part--he only weaned a couple of months ago himself . I'm really looking more for books about babies, what they're like, etc., maybe even one about pregnancy (?). Just basically something to help me talk to him about the new baby coming, I guess. Any suggestions?
jannan's Avatar jannan
02:16 PM Liked: 5
#5 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 2,285
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kezia, i think what the book meant was that both types of milk are special because they are for babies, as opposed to regular milk you would buy in a gallon for an older child. breast milk is special and so is formula. I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of bottle feeding versus breastfeeding. because each woman is free to chose how she wants to feed her child. Ive always felt that there was a lot of critisism and judment on mothers who chose to bottle feed. when you see a woman bottle feeding her infant, how do we know that she tried and the infant would'nt take the breast. how do we know the baby isn't adopted?
DaryLLL's Avatar DaryLLL
02:48 PM Liked: 11
#6 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 13,153
Joined: Aug 2002

I see you don't take my point. What is special abt human milk? It is a species specific milk made for small humans. Cow's milk isn't "regular" milk. It is a species specific milk made for small cows. It is fully nutritious for calves, but of course, not for humans or any other species (perhaps a baby buffalo could get by on it).

Artificial baby milk is a processed food, made from cow's milk (or soybeans, or beef hearts) to *approximate* the baby's natural food.

I do agree with you, as I said in my prev post, that those babies we see being bottlefed out there (yours included perhaps?), are getting maybe human milk in their bottles, or ABM if the mom *couldn't* or wouldn't nurse. We know the majority of American women choose to bf. We also know the majority of those moms quit by 3 months. Not b/c they can't nurse, but b/c they choose not to, for whatever reason, most probably lack of support and correct information, and resultant lack of dedication to succeeding.

Adoptive moms can sometimes nurse, if they so choose. Quite often, young adopted babies will take to the breast. The mother can stimulate a milk supply, even if she has never been pg.
kezia's Avatar kezia (TS)
04:40 PM Liked: 0
#7 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 223
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Originally posted by jannan
kezia, i think what the book meant was that both types of milk are special because they are for babies, as opposed to regular milk you would buy in a gallon for an older child. breast milk is special and so is formula.
If that is what they meant to convey, they did a very poor job of it. The way it is worded, it makes no reference to the fact that breastmilk and formula are two different kinds of "special milk". There is merely a description of breastfeeding, using the term "special milk" for breastmilk, then the statement that you can also buy "this special milk" at the store.

Regardless of why a mom is giving her baby formula (none of my business, and I don't speculate), it is NOT breastmilk, and I think it's sad and wrong to allow our children to believe that artificial baby milks are "the same as" human milk when study after study continues to show that they simply aren't.
jannan's Avatar jannan
07:20 PM Liked: 5
#8 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 2,285
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but they are for the same purpose. both breast milk and baby formula nourish an infant. period. they are both special milk. i don't think it is sad or decieving to let a child know that both breast milk and formula are special. that is all i said. i'm not going to get into the debate about which is better, blah blah.
kezia's Avatar kezia (TS)
08:52 PM Liked: 0
#9 of 16
01-16-2003 | Posts: 223
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Jannan, I think you're still missing the point entirely. I would have no problem with them referring to breastmilk and formula as the two ways to feed a baby. I also don't expect them to say that one is "better" than the other. What I think is deceiving is that they worded it in such a way that makes it sound like you can go to the grocery store and buy BREASTMILK--that "special milk" from the store is the same substance that comes from mommy's nipples.

There is no need to debate about which is "better"--that is a subjective term, and it's a choice each family has to make based individual circumstances. Yes, both provide sustenance for infants, but there is no question that mother's milk is a totally different substance from artificial baby milk and provides things that artificial milk simply does not. Why tell children they are the same?
jannan's Avatar jannan
12:10 AM Liked: 5
#10 of 16
01-17-2003 | Posts: 2,285
Joined: Oct 2002
because they are both used to feed an infant.
Meiri's Avatar Meiri
04:26 AM Liked: 173
#11 of 16
01-17-2003 | Posts: 8,869
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Good point Daryll, it's not "special" it's Normal.

OTOH it's very special indeed, but absolutely cannot be gotten at the store.
DaryLLL's Avatar DaryLLL
01:47 PM Liked: 11
#12 of 16
01-17-2003 | Posts: 13,153
Joined: Aug 2002
From dictionary.com:

"spe┬Ěcial ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spshl)
Surpassing what is common or usual; exceptional: a special occasion; a special treat.

Distinct among others of a kind: a special type of paint; a special medication for arthritis.
Primary: His special satisfaction comes from volunteer work.
Peculiar to a specific person or thing; particular: my own special chair; the special features of a computer.

Having a limited or specific function, application, or scope: a special role in the mission.
Arranged for a particular occasion or purpose: a special visit from her daughter.
Regarded with particular affection and admiration: a special friend.
Additional; extra: a special holiday flight."

I realized when I was writing that special and species and specific must all come from the same root. And they do. From the Latin, specialis, meaning "kind." So, all milks are "special," in that they are meant as a food particularly for the young of that species. But then, so is ABM "special" in that it is a milk, made for another species (bovine), but adulterated in specific ways to be made more nutritious for the human young.

The first (therefore most commonly used) def above, call "special"- "surpassing what is common or usual." Unfortunately, our culture does define bfing as an extra, a bonus, but not really needed. In fact, it is seen as inconvenient and embarrassing.

But the OP was making the point that the What To Expect book didn't make the distinction that ABM and human breast milk are both special--in *different* ways!

But "what do you expect" from a series riddled with mis-information in any case? I feel so sorry for the children who are raised by this book (series). They are frighteningly popular. Hide them (and Ezzo) in the bookstores, and put Dr Sears in the front!

A few yrs back, our LLL group was having a yard sale. One of our members donated a What to Expect book, which was a gift to her, which obviously she hated and did not use. I couldn't in all conscience, sell it to any member of the public. I put it in the garbage (well, I recycled it, but not as reading material).
darlindeliasmom's Avatar darlindeliasmom
01:59 PM Liked: 0
#13 of 16
01-17-2003 | Posts: 1,170
Joined: Nov 2001
kezia: Dr. Sears has 2 books about new babies written for the sibling. One talks about the baby on the way, and shows SOME info of the development of the fetus. Another talks about when the baby is home. We took them out of the library here; yhey were great for AP parents because they presented our choices as normative...
We actually used the classic Nilsson photo book (A Child Is Born) when Del was curious about the new babies she knew were growing in my friends' wombs. You could probably find that book in a library. It's photos taken of the fetus during development, and is quite beautiful...

I think the debate here is that janna is focusing on a later defintion, holding that both are special because they are SPECIFIC (I think it was defintion 3 in Darylll's list), whereas kezia is NOT so much focusing on the word special but on the lack of differentiation. Blah! those books stink anyway...as a woman over 35 when I got pregnant, I was actually frightened by the testing stuff, and after I compared their "what to expect" with what ACTUALLY happened at my midwives' office month-by-month, I knew the book belonged in the trash--uh, recycling bin!
kater07's Avatar kater07
09:30 PM Liked: 5
#14 of 16
01-18-2003 | Posts: 1,265
Joined: Jan 2002
I don't want to comment on the "debate" over the topic, but...

www.attachmentscatalog.com has a bunch of older sibling, breastfeeding, infant books geared toward kids about to become older brothers and sisters.

Check 'em out!

kater07's Avatar kater07
09:38 PM Liked: 5
#15 of 16
01-18-2003 | Posts: 1,265
Joined: Jan 2002
Here's some blurbs from some of the books at www.attachmentscatalog.com

Hello Baby, by Lizzy Rockwell

Add this book to your list of great books to get an older sibling who is expecting a new baby brother or sister. It's the story of a small boy who feels the baby kick inside his mother's tummy and hears the baby's heartbeat during a visit to the doctor. The book is narrated by the boy himself and covers the pregnancy, birth, and homecoming of baby sister Eliza. The story is told in simple words ("Mommy's breasts make milk that is the perfect food for a baby...") and sweet illustrations. This book also has a nice growth chart that shows the baby in utero. PB

Baby on The Way, by William Sears M.D., Martha Sears, R.N., and Christie Watts Kelly

A wonderfully detailed book for new big brothers or sisters. This books talks about changes that will be going on in your home, and in mama's personality while she is pregnant. It covers how hungry mama will be, how she will feel sick, how her lap gets smaller, and things a big sister or brother can do to help at home to get ready. This delightful book covers crying and how babies do a lot of it, how they eat, sleep, and need their diapers changed a lot! The book also addresses that no matter how busy mama is pushing that new baby out, or tending to his or her care, you will always be special in her heart.

What Baby Needs, by Sears, Sears, and Watts Kelly

Just what you'd expect from a Sears' book. Lots of breastfeeding, family bedding, sling wearing and meeting babies immediate needs are lovingly shown in this sweet book. Approached from te perspective of what a new sibling can expect when baby joins the family, this books joins our list of great books for new big sisters and brothers

There are several others, but I thought that you might like to read about a few.

I hope this helps!!! Best of luck and CONGRATS!

TigerTail's Avatar TigerTail
03:25 AM Liked: 178
#16 of 16
01-21-2003 | Posts: 8,660
Joined: Dec 2002
just wanted to say thanks for the head's up on 'breasts'; sam got 'everyone poops' for xmas, & loved it! (my dd thought it was appalling till i told her it was japanese, the little japanophile; then it was cool: )

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