Most irritating excuses! Make a list! - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

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#151 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 06:47 PM
 
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Workingmomto1: This is the lactivist board. We have the right to vent here.

It sounds like, based on your post, you got some very bad information. Yes, breastfeeding hurts at first. The first two weeks for me were absolutely excruciating, causing me to cry and stamp my feet at every nursing session. The next two weeks were a little better. Now, dd is three months old. Oh, and I did it while parenting an active toddler.

It's normal for a breast fed baby to lose more weight than a formula fed baby. Lots of pedis don't realize this and incorrectly tell the mothers to get their children on formula.

Bad breast milk? Uh, no.

If you do plan to breast feed again, I recommend sticking around...you will get lots of good information.
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#152 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 08:12 PM
 
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I dont think that any of this is "ripping" or anything like that. this thread is really more similar to "kids say the darndest things", just silly stuff that people say.

btw. I do supplement with formula. (just bought some more today actually). I really dont have enough milk (bfar). but my baby has never had a bottle, and my baby still gets lots of breastmilk, way more milk then formula really. (see my post in the low supply tribe for more info)

my mil ff. but she has a reason, the main reason most (NOT ALL) ffs have when you boil it down. she had no knowledge, and no support. She knows this.


so anyway, can we get this thread back to being funny?
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#153 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 09:43 PM
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<<<It's normal for a breast fed baby to lose more weight than a formula fed baby. Lots of pedis don't realize this and incorrectly tell the mothers to get their children on formula.>>>

Not to mention if you had IV fluids during labor, as is very common w/most hospita births, it can increase baby's water weight which can lead to a larger than normal weight loss.
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#154 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 09:46 PM
 
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The same thing happened with us. I had an IV, which artificially inflated her weight. Plus I had a severe hemorrage and had to have a D&C, so I missed out on the first window of breastfeeding. Then, she lost too much weight and was too sleepy to nurse, so my midwife had me express some milk and finger feed it to her, which got her awake and alert enough to start nursing in earnest.

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#155 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 09:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WorkingMomTo1
It's nice of some of you to back down and admit that some people might have valid excuses not to BF, such as having survived brain cancer and sexual abuse. But I think a little less judgment all around would be nice. I agree that this sort of thread just incites more mommy wars that we just don't need. I also am appreciative that someone has called for thoughtful responses to the "stupid" excuses you hear.

Here are my thoughtful responses to what you believe are stupid excuses for not BFing (I tried for 10 days and cried when I decided not to do it anymore.

Excuse #1: "It hurts!"

Damn right it hurts. It hurt SO much that every single time my baby girl latched on, and the seconds leading up to it, I completely clenched up. I had to bite my tongue not to scream with every latch. Yes, I guess you could say that makes me a wimp and a horrible, selfish mom. On the other hand, I could say that I really felt bad for clenching up and not being able to relax and provide a welcoming environment for my daughter. I tried to correct her latch many times, and it just wasn't happening.


Excuse #2: "She wasn't gaining enough weight."

Well, she wasn't. Period. In fact, she lost more weight than what is expected for newborns, and then she wasn't gaining it back when she should have. I tried everything, but ultimately, either my flow was too slow or she was just way too sleepy to get enough. She could not stay awake long enough for a good feeding. Her input/output logs didn't look good at all. She wasn't pooping enough.

Excuse #3: "My breastmilk was bad."

I don't know, this could have been a problem too. When she was 8 and 9 days old, she stayed up screaming for hours on end, all night long. I was still breastfeeding at this point. I offered my breast as much as possible, but she expressed only a very limited interest in taking it.

On day 10 I was hopeless and made her a bottle. She took to it immediately, gulped it down, and slept like, well, a baby. We haven't had problems since. Her weight went up quickly, and in my opinion, she's a genius. She's the happiest baby I've ever seen. That was NOT the case while she was breastfeeding. Looking back, it seems to me I was actually starving her. Me, starving my precious newborn in an attempt to appease people like you.

I really caution all of you to stop judging other mothers who are trying their very best. You do NOT know everyone's situation, and I have never seen such a group of self-righteous people in my life.
Maybe you haven't been reading on this board enough, but something that is considered a valid "excuse" is having no support whatsoever. Yeah, many women find breastfeeding to be totally easy, but many struggle just as you did and they only got through it with help. Some few manage to struggle through without help and I am amazed at their courage and tenacity. Personally, I couldn't do it.

Excuses 1 and 2 for you very likely could have solved with a decent lactation consultant and it is a crying shame that our culture is not currently designed in such a way that a decent lactation consultant is available for anyone. (Reason 1 that I *am* a lactivist.)

Excuse 3 could have either stemmed from the problems with 1 and 2, since your daughter clearly wasn't getting enough breastmilk, but it could have also been something in your diet. Again, something you would have known about if breastfeeding education in this country was even remotely as available as it should be. (Reason 2 that I *am* a lactivist.)

And do you know what's real proof that you were trying your best? Getting the support you need to breastfeed future children. Figure out what went wrong the first time and see what you can do next time to be more sucessful. Maybe you'll find out that you have some idiosyncracy that makes breastfeeding flat out impossible for you (I hope that isn't the case) or maybe, fingers crossed here, you'll find that breastfeeding your other children is an absolute joy.

And, in case anyone was wondering, reason 3 that I *am* a lactivist, is that when you are able to breastfeed your child, you should be able to do so anywhere someone could use a bottle without feeling nervous or ashamed.
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#156 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 10:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WorkingMomTo1
It's nice of some of you to back down and admit that some people might have valid excuses not to BF, such as having survived brain cancer and sexual abuse. But I think a little less judgment all around would be nice. I agree that this sort of thread just incites more mommy wars that we just don't need. I also am appreciative that someone has called for thoughtful responses to the "stupid" excuses you hear.

Here are my thoughtful responses to what you believe are stupid excuses for not BFing (I tried for 10 days and cried when I decided not to do it anymore.

Excuse #1: "It hurts!"

Damn right it hurts. It hurt SO much that every single time my baby girl latched on, and the seconds leading up to it, I completely clenched up. I had to bite my tongue not to scream with every latch. Yes, I guess you could say that makes me a wimp and a horrible, selfish mom. On the other hand, I could say that I really felt bad for clenching up and not being able to relax and provide a welcoming environment for my daughter. I tried to correct her latch many times, and it just wasn't happening.


Excuse #2: "She wasn't gaining enough weight."

Well, she wasn't. Period. In fact, she lost more weight than what is expected for newborns, and then she wasn't gaining it back when she should have. I tried everything, but ultimately, either my flow was too slow or she was just way too sleepy to get enough. She could not stay awake long enough for a good feeding. Her input/output logs didn't look good at all. She wasn't pooping enough.

Excuse #3: "My breastmilk was bad."

I don't know, this could have been a problem too. When she was 8 and 9 days old, she stayed up screaming for hours on end, all night long. I was still breastfeeding at this point. I offered my breast as much as possible, but she expressed only a very limited interest in taking it.

On day 10 I was hopeless and made her a bottle. She took to it immediately, gulped it down, and slept like, well, a baby. We haven't had problems since. Her weight went up quickly, and in my opinion, she's a genius. She's the happiest baby I've ever seen. That was NOT the case while she was breastfeeding. Looking back, it seems to me I was actually starving her. Me, starving my precious newborn in an attempt to appease people like you.

I really caution all of you to stop judging other mothers who are trying their very best. You do NOT know everyone's situation, and I have never seen such a group of self-righteous people in my life.

Starving your precious newborn to appease people like us? Oh jeez, I hear violins.

Your post is actually a great example of what people are talking about on this thread. You tried for 10 days, quickly got discouraged, and now you're mad at people who breastfeed. How dare we tout the benefits of breastmilk when YOUR baby is a formula fed genius? Heaven forbid we vent on a breastfeeding board! What ARE we thinking? :

What really stinks is that your story is common. And it gets shared over and over and over until women start to believe that breastfeeding isn't worthwhile at all, and is totally optional. It's the kind of decision that gets ranked along with "what color should I paint the nursery" and "what pattern should I go with on my highchair and pack and play" instead of being treated like the important health decision that it is.

I do hope that you're here to learn (instead of to accuse women on a BREASTFEEDING BOARD of escalating the mommy wars by discussing this topic. Did I mention that this is a breastfeeding board?) Drop the defensive act and you'll figure out that 10 days is a teeny tiny iota of your baby's life, and that a good lactation consultant or a few visits to a LLL meeting could totally turn things around. Breastfeeding may be natural, but it takes practice. And babies do cry inconsolably sometimes (surprisingly enough, even when they're formula fed!) As for weight gain, some breastmilk is better than none. You can supplement while working back toward nursing full-time if you're truly interested. There are a number of low-supply mamas here who work all sorts of magic with an SNS.

The point is, there can be a lot of obstacles to successful breastfeeding, but they don't have to mean the demise of your breastfeeding relationship. You can encounter problems with latch and weight gain and any other number of newborn issues and throw in the towel, or you can decide that it's important enough to give your baby the very best (however much of it you are able) and work through the issues.
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#157 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 10:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Quagmire
Starving your precious newborn to appease people like us? Oh jeez, I hear violins.

Your post is actually a great example of what people are talking about on this thread. You tried for 10 days, quickly got discouraged, and now you're mad at people who breastfeed. How dare we tout the benefits of breastmilk when YOUR baby is a formula fed genius? Heaven forbid we vent on a breastfeeding board! What ARE we thinking?

That really IS it, right there, isn't it??...

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#158 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 10:29 PM
 
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I would've if I had a girl but it's a boy so it would feel like incest if he sucked on my t*ts." I ACTUALLY HEARD THIS ONE - from a coworker. I said, "but he's just a baby, it's not like you're molesting him," and she didn't really reply - I think (hope) she realized how inappropriate the last part of her statement sounded
That made me want to cry ...as I sit here nursing my sweet baby boy to sleep.
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#159 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 10:51 PM
 
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Nadine, I just read your first post--I'm new and hadn't heard your story. I was hell-bent and determined to nurse my first baby. Like you said, formula was like poison in my eyes. I read a couple of books about breasfeeding and thought that I was pretty prepared. But after a bad birth experience, SO much pain from an episiotomy, and nurses who made me feel like my breasts were not made to feed a baby, I got very insecure about my ability to feed him. I was under SO much stress and was literally not eating or drinking anything after he was born. We were also broke as my husband had just lost his job two weeks before. My legs swelled up and got really red and painful once I went home from the hospital. In a conversation with a nurse about my legs, she asked how the baby was doing and I said that he was so sleepy and wouldn't latch on. She told me that I needed to go buy formula and get it in him ASAP, especially because he was jaundiced. After ONE bottle of formula given to him by me, he would never, ever latch on again. It was horrible. I have never cried so much in my life. I was young, and had no access to things like a computer to find answers to my questions, and I knew nothing about relactation. My milk never even came in, to my knowledge. I was never once engorged, and I would pump and get just drops out.....if I thought I could have, I would have pumped exclusively for him for as long as possible.

I found out WAY later on that he also has low muscle tone in his mouth, which was why he had such a weak suck and probably why my milk never did come in, after three days of nursing him.

My second baby came and I knew where my pitfalls would be. I just basically kept him on the boob all the time! But now he is 11 months and still gets most of his nutrition from the breast. I even have had problems with OVERsupply of all things, and was able to pump a lot extra and give it to his older brother in a cup.

I just wanted to say that I understand your feelings. We do what we have to do. It really does feel like a kind of redemption to nurse my second, and to know that my breasts really can feed a baby. But, I truly, truly thought that I was doing my best for my first baby---ignorant or not, I really only wanted him to be healthy and thrive. I know you feel that way about your sweet baby too.
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#160 of 175 Old 05-31-2006, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Quagmire
Starving your precious newborn to appease people like us? Oh jeez, I hear violins.

Your post is actually a great example of what people are talking about on this thread. You tried for 10 days, quickly got discouraged, and now you're mad at people who breastfeed. How dare we tout the benefits of breastmilk when YOUR baby is a formula fed genius? Heaven forbid we vent on a breastfeeding board! What ARE we thinking? :

What really stinks is that your story is common. And it gets shared over and over and over until women start to believe that breastfeeding isn't worthwhile at all, and is totally optional. It's the kind of decision that gets ranked along with "what color should I paint the nursery" and "what pattern should I go with on my highchair and pack and play" instead of being treated like the important health decision that it is.

I do hope that you're here to learn (instead of to accuse women on a BREASTFEEDING BOARD of escalating the mommy wars by discussing this topic. Did I mention that this is a breastfeeding board?) Drop the defensive act and you'll figure out that 10 days is a teeny tiny iota of your baby's life, and that a good lactation consultant or a few visits to a LLL meeting could totally turn things around. Breastfeeding may be natural, but it takes practice. And babies do cry inconsolably sometimes (surprisingly enough, even when they're formula fed!) As for weight gain, some breastmilk is better than none. You can supplement while working back toward nursing full-time if you're truly interested. There are a number of low-supply mamas here who work all sorts of magic with an SNS.

The point is, there can be a lot of obstacles to successful breastfeeding, but they don't have to mean the demise of your breastfeeding relationship. You can encounter problems with latch and weight gain and any other number of newborn issues and throw in the towel, or you can decide that it's important enough to give your baby the very best (however much of it you are able) and work through the issues.
I totally agree!
Here is, for example, a very ‘fresh’ link that shows how a mom is trying to succeed in nursing http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=459634
You can also read there stories of other moms who have been there, done that (including my own; I haven't had any support, btw) and see how people who actually want to succeed do so.

Yulia.
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#161 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 01:24 PM
 
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Sapphire_Chan, thank you. Your post was exactly the sort of thing I needed to hear. It was supportive and friendly, a true example of BF advocacy.

Quagmire, I am NOT mad at people who breastfeed. I admire them. I have to admit, I dislike people who breastfeed and make assumptions about everyone who doesn't. Huge difference there.
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#162 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 04:19 PM
 
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This actually made me think of a great potential print ad.

Imagine all the reasons listed here going across a page in black and white.

My breasts are too small. My breasts are too big. I smoke. I diet. I drink a glass of wine at night. I have to go back to work. My baby is too small. My baby is too big. I don't drink milk. My mother couldn't breastfeed. I've had breast surgery. I like to exercise. I like to wear underwire bras. I don't eat well enough.

And then, superimposed in the middle in bright red is "YOUR milk is better for your baby than any alternative."

Not just breastfeeding, but specifically that woman's milk, despite all the above "excuses."

Shannon, mama to Jack :
: : : : : :
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#163 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 04:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WorkingMomTo1
I really caution all of you to stop judging other mothers who are trying their very best. You do NOT know everyone's situation, and I have never seen such a group of self-righteous people in my life.
Working Mom, I'm sorry to hear of your supply problems. I too am a low-supply mom (breast cancer survivor with one breast).

I hope you get the support you need to successfully BF your next born, or re-lactate your current child. Come visit us in the Breastfeeding Challenges to help work out your issues and problems.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...play.php?f=363

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#164 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 05:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sntm
This actually made me think of a great potential print ad.

Imagine all the reasons listed here going across a page in black and white.

My breasts are too small. My breasts are too big. I smoke. I diet. I drink a glass of wine at night. I have to go back to work. My baby is too small. My baby is too big. I don't drink milk. My mother couldn't breastfeed. I've had breast surgery. I like to exercise. I like to wear underwire bras. I don't eat well enough.

And then, superimposed in the middle in bright red is "YOUR milk is better for your baby than any alternative."

Not just breastfeeding, but specifically that woman's milk, despite all the above "excuses."

Ohhh, I like that idea!

Mom of 3 (Evan, Trey, Saffron ) Blogs at findingsummer.com
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#165 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 05:48 PM
 
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Mind you, this came from someone who homebirthed, She's hippy like and loves natural stuff...

"G lost ten percent of his body weight the first two days, if he lost ten percent more he would have been hospitalized."

I feel bad, she just didnt have the education or the support in place.
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#166 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 05:49 PM
 
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My daughter lost more than ten percent.

Jam 7, Peanut Butter 5, and Bread 2.

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#167 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 06:07 PM
 
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Oh, and I want to add, I'm all for lactivism, but some people do take it to far.

Nursing was hard, it was a struggle, it was painful, but we're still working at it. My son is 15 months now. We've had our up and downs. He was exclusively bf till five months. After a series of events, he ended up with formula here and there. Infact, after that series of events, I stopped pumping for the time I was a way working. Six weeks later, I caught up. Then the pump was taken away from me. Thankfully I was allowed to have it back a few days after. Then two months later, it was taken for good. We broke out the formula again. Pumping just put too much stress on the time I had with him. I wish I could have mellowed out and kept him on the my milk. He hasn't had a drop of formula since the day I quit my job. Probably less than 3% of the milk he got was formula. I have some days I'm guilty that I broke down and made that choice, but then I have others where I'm happy that I had that choice to make.

Sometimes it hurts though when someone says something negative to me about formula. Sometimes some people are so strong that they make me feel like I failed my son. That really hurts, especially after that emotional rollercoaster I was on that drove me to the point of making that choice. I feel if some people weren't so strong about bf, myself, pre baby included, that I would have saved myself a lot of stress and worry. I wish I took a pump, and suplement if needed aproach from the beginning. I look back and often I feel more guilty for those months of stress and shortchanging my son because I *couldn't* fail and give him formula.

btw, I haven't been offended by anyone here yet. Somewhere else someone stated that "fomula is the devil's milk, it taste's nasty. Parent's would have to be insane to use it. " That's the kind of thing that makes lactivists look bad. I think we (yes I consider myself a lactivist) can do a little more to combat insensitivity within our ranks.
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#168 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 06:21 PM
 
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I agree that we need to be kind to mothers who tried and were unable to breastfeed, but can I offer an alternate approach for the non-nursing mothers? An old friend of mine had a horrible time trying to breastfeed. She had 4 children, and they all had some hereditary condition ( I had it explained to me at the time, but it's a little over my head) that caused great difficulty nursing, plus she had supply issues due to a condition of her own. She got help from lactation consultants, spent a fortune in long distance bills talking with Dr. Jack Newman's clinic in Toronto, tried everything, and was never able to nurse except with a Lact-aid full of formula. However, she was the most rabid, wild-eyed pro-breastfeeding lactivist you ever met! Her attitude toward FF mothers was: "I went through all this trouble just to give my babies some token boob; you have a lot of nerve telling ME you won't nurse just because of A, B, or C.!" In other words, women who were prevented from BF can be an example to other mothers as well.
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#169 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamabadger
Her attitude toward FF mothers was: "I went through all this trouble just to give my babies some token boob; you have a lot of nerve telling ME you won't nurse just because of A, B, or C.!" In other words, women who were prevented from BF can be an example to other mothers as well.
Yep I am a BF mom, even if they do take a bottle here and there, and/or get non-mamas milk. I haven't given up, which I think is the definition of NOT being a BF mom.

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#170 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 08:06 PM
 
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I agree that we need to be kind to mothers who tried and were unable to breastfeed, but can I offer an alternate approach for the non-nursing mothers? An old friend of mine had a horrible time trying to breastfeed. She had 4 children, and they all had some hereditary condition ( I had it explained to me at the time, but it's a little over my head) that caused great difficulty nursing, plus she had supply issues due to a condition of her own. She got help from lactation consultants, spent a fortune in long distance bills talking with Dr. Jack Newman's clinic in Toronto, tried everything, and was never able to nurse except with a Lact-aid full of formula. However, she was the most rabid, wild-eyed pro-breastfeeding lactivist you ever met! Her attitude toward FF mothers was: "I went through all this trouble just to give my babies some token boob; you have a lot of nerve telling ME you won't nurse just because of A, B, or C.!" In other words, women who were prevented from BF can be an example to other mothers as well.

Well, I FF, and it's a choice I regret so deeply that it makes my heart break on a nearly daily basis. When dealing with a LC to try to relactate, she said that it's uplifting to see someone who had a hard time breastfeeding and quit actually try to turn it around to do something good. I am SUCH a lactivist, that I can almost feel my blood boil when I talk to Momma's who did the SAME thing that I myself did. I have decided that my mistake should never have happened, that our society should do so much more to help mama's BF. I have decided that I will USE my bad mistake to say "Hey listen, I live with the regret, and I have done everything I could to try to FIX my mistake, so don't do what I did. Breastfeeding your babe, is SO worth a bit of pain and hard work at the beginning". I try to take what happened to me, and make something good out of it. It's either that or beat myself up about it every day. I can be a hardcore lactivist EVEN THOUGH I am a FF mama.

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#171 of 175 Old 06-01-2006, 08:41 PM
 
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I have decided that my mistake should never have happened, that our society should do so much more to help mama's BF. (...) I can be a hardcore lactivist EVEN THOUGH I am a FF mama.
Hear hear, EvansMomma! Even apart from genuine physical problems, there is so much discouragement and bad information around, I'm surprised more women don't end up FF. I came extremely close to putting my first child on the bottle, mostly due to hospital mismanagement and misinformation. I didn't find LLL until she was about 3 months old and the problems had subsided. If I had begun to FF, I'd probably have become an even more radical lactivist than I already am.
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#172 of 175 Old 06-02-2006, 09:35 AM
 
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"I just didn't want to, nobody I know did and I didn't even give it a thought.":

Not even an excuse or a reason. Just a callous response.:
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#173 of 175 Old 06-02-2006, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by EvansMomma
Well, I FF, and it's a choice I regret so deeply that it makes my heart break on a nearly daily basis. When dealing with a LC to try to relactate, she said that it's uplifting to see someone who had a hard time breastfeeding and quit actually try to turn it around to do something good. I am SUCH a lactivist, that I can almost feel my blood boil when I talk to Momma's who did the SAME thing that I myself did. I have decided that my mistake should never have happened, that our society should do so much more to help mama's BF. I have decided that I will USE my bad mistake to say "Hey listen, I live with the regret, and I have done everything I could to try to FIX my mistake, so don't do what I did. Breastfeeding your babe, is SO worth a bit of pain and hard work at the beginning". I try to take what happened to me, and make something good out of it. It's either that or beat myself up about it every day. I can be a hardcore lactivist EVEN THOUGH I am a FF mama.
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#174 of 175 Old 06-02-2006, 01:38 PM
 
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My step-sister does not want to BF (but her fiance wants her to!!!)
"My mom didn't BF me and I am okay"

I told her she could pump andshe was not into that....So I joke now that I am going to wet nurse her kids

I too wish I was still BFing ds. When he was 8 weeks I got put on meds and couldn't continue ...now he is 22 months and I just got off them. My Grandma said that when I have another baby I should pump some for ds #1....what a great idea! (Grandma BF all her 6 kids and she is a 74 year old lactavist!!)

homebirth.jpg<>< Mama to DS, DD, and a new baby girl 4/1! homeschool.gifmdcblog5.gif

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#175 of 175 Old 06-02-2006, 01:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mamabadger
However, she was the most rabid, wild-eyed pro-breastfeeding lactivist you ever met! Her attitude toward FF mothers was: "I went through all this trouble just to give my babies some token boob; you have a lot of nerve telling ME you won't nurse just because of A, B, or C.!" In other words, women who were prevented from BF can be an example to other mothers as well.
AWESOME example, badger. (It's like me after my c-section: "what, I went through planned unassisted, agonizing 24 hour back labor culminating in my section & you planned one just to keep your vag tight?" I should advocate for unnecessary c-secs now, just because I had a (probably) necessary one? Bah.
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