Still trying to convince my ex church not to give a shame based message. - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 69 Old 05-26-2006, 10:10 AM
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Churches are usually part of a larger entity. i would find out where that is based out of-ie an american baptist church is part of American Baptist Churches. i would go highre with this and if you are still having trouble review your bible. there are many a reference to breastfeeding in the best of ways. one of my friends that always has issues because she was nursing her 3 and 1 year olds says that if you read the bible they all proudly say that they nursed for 2-3 years!!!! my family has also had church issues (apparently a woman couldn't be the music director). my grandma climbed the ladder of authority and the pastor got reprimanded. if they advertise themselves as open and affirming to all then they are also false advertising. you can also check the breastfeeding laws in your state. you may find that you are protected on the basis that you can nurse your child anywhere your child is welcome!!! i know that is how an increasing numbers of states are headed-THANK GOD!!!! but as far as tossing it to a church-bible quotes tend to scare pastors especially when they realize that you are right and that they are falsely interppreting the core of christianity!!! best of luck mama. if it is and evengelical covanant church email me at [email protected]-i work at a nursing home of theirs that has the conferece in our facility and may be able to find out more info.
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#62 of 69 Old 05-26-2006, 10:50 AM
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I also think it would help if you broaden the scope of your message to them to dramatically highlight the safety of children under the care of those nursery workers. They have already openly admitted their incompitence in giving the correct bottle to the correct child and their cavalier attitude about that needs immediate correction. What if a child went into anaphylactic shock because some dingbat gave him another child's soy formula? It's also inexcusable that they are not familiar with the CDC guidelines for hazardous fluids. I don't know what your state laws say, but here it is mandatory to have a CDC chart hanging in clear view at the front of the nursery where both parents and nursery workers can see it. Frankly, I would let them know that even if they decided to "allow" breastmilk, I wouldn't be comfortable leaving my child under the care of such grossly negligent nursery workers. Food for thought...

"I get up every morning determined to both change the world and have one hell of a good time. Sometimes this makes planning my day difficult." â E.B. White
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#63 of 69 Old 05-26-2006, 11:05 AM
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Sounds like a great church. Not.
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#64 of 69 Old 05-26-2006, 11:13 AM
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Wow, I can't believe this is happening in todays society with all the bf promotion and education....AND especially in a church! It really shows just how ignorant and self-righteous some people can be. I pray that you would find a good church for you and that Northridge will get a message from on High about how they handled this situation.
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#65 of 69 Old 05-26-2006, 04:01 PM
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found the old thread

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#66 of 69 Old 05-26-2006, 07:48 PM
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Your minister/pastor really dropped the ball on this one. As I see it, one of his functions is to provide meaningful leadership, but he just passed the buck. In any organization, a leader's attitude influcences the whole (like in the choice of others in leadership positions and obviously in what is said from the pulpit or otherwise from the minister). This incident could be evidence of other issues w/ this particular church. Personally, I would wash my hand of this church and find another to attend, while still trying to educate others in a kind, loving way.

Edited to add that I see from the post title that this is your "ex" church. I would approach this very prayerfully and ask God for opportunities to educate others. It appears that you would have a better chance of effecting change on a personal level w/ other moms/moms-to-be than through the staff of the church. I don't think that "going public" through the newspaper would change people's hearts, but forging relationships with a few moms could be the start of positive change.
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#67 of 69 Old 05-26-2006, 09:01 PM
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The minister/church doesn't say that a mom cannot nurse. I remember reading earlier in this thread that he told her that she is free to nurse anywhere she wishes there.

Simple solution is to take the child into the service with you, if you still want to go there. If anyone asks why you don't leave your child with the nursery, tell them:
1. they violate WHO guidelines--offering "free better formula" (which phrasing is bearing false witness as it is not better in any normal rational sense of the word);
2. they violate AAP breastfeeding guidelines--bearing false witness in as much as they claim to be following AAP guidelines;
3. they violate CDC information regarding breastmilk--bearing false witness as to its being hazardous;
4. and the kicker that they cannot keep the bottles of the children who come with one straight--and you're not interested in having your child or any other at risk for death from potential anaphylaxsis.

"What will you do once you know?"
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#68 of 69 Old 05-27-2006, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by stockingup99
I think next I'd like to find the WHO guidelines about formula not being given to nursing moms, and go meet with someone at the church. Am I right in thinking that if the do good works around the world, they probably use those guidlines for other things?
Both of these articles are super long, so I've included a few (still super long) appropriate quotes, as well as the links. Child Feeding
This global strategy provides governments and society’s other main
agents with both a valuable opportunity and a practical instrument
for rededicating themselves, individually and collectively, to protecting,
promoting and supporting safe and adequate feeding for
infants and young children everywhere.
33. With these considerations in mind, the global strategy includes as a
priority for all governments the achievement of the following additional
operational targets:1
● to develop, implement, monitor and evaluate a comprehensive
policy on infant and young child feeding, in the context of
national policies and programmes for nutrition, child and reproductive
health, and poverty reduction;
● to ensure that the health and other relevant sectors protect, promote
and support exclusive breastfeeding for six months and
continued breastfeeding up to two years of age or beyond, while
providing women access to the support they require – in the
family, community and workplace – to achieve this goal;
● to promote timely, adequate, safe and appropriate complementary
feeding with continued breastfeeding;
● to provide guidance on feeding infants and young children in
exceptionally difficult circumstances, and on the related support
required by mothers, families and other caregivers;
● to consider what new legislation or other suitable measures may
be required, as part of a comprehensive policy on infant and
young child feeding, to give effect to the principles and aim of
the International Code of Marketing of Breast-milk Substitutes
and to subsequent relevant Health Assembly resolutions.
For promotion
● ensuring that all who are responsible for communicating with
the general public, including educational and media authorities,
provide accurate and complete information about appropriate
infant and young child feeding practices, taking into account
prevailing social, cultural and environmental circumstances;
For support in the community
● promoting development of community-based support networks
to help ensure appropriate infant and young child feeding, for
example mother-to-mother support groups and peer or lay counsellors,
For support for feeding infants difficult circumstances
● giving guidance for identifying infants who have to be fed on
breast-milk substitutes, ensuring that a suitable substitute is provided
and fed safely for as long as needed by the infants concerned,
and preventing any “spillover effect” of artificial feeding
into the general population;
Nongovernmental organizations including community-based
support groups
41. The aims and objectives of a wide variety of nongovernmental
organizations operating locally, nationally and internationally include
promoting the adequate food and nutrition needs of young
children and families. For example, charitable and religious organizations,
consumer associations, mother-to-mother support groups,
family clubs, and child-care cooperatives all have multiple opportunities
to contribute to the implementation of this strategy through,
for example:
● providing their members accurate, up-to-date information about
infant and young child feeding;
● integrating skilled support for infant and young child feeding in
community-based interventions and ensuring effective linkages
with the health care system;
● contributing to the creation of mother- and child-friendly communities and workplaces that routinely support appropriate
infant and young child feeding;
● working for full implementation of the principles and aim of the
International Code of Marketing of Breast-milk Substitutes and
subsequent relevant Health Assembly resolutions.
42. Parents and other caregivers are most directly responsible for feeding
children. Ever keen to ensure that they have accurate information
to make appropriate feeding choices, parents nevertheless are
limited by their immediate environment. Since they may have only
infrequent contact with the health care system during a child’s first
two years of life, it is not unusual for caregivers to be more influenced
by community attitudes than by the advice of health workers.

43. Additional sources of information and support are found in a variety
of formal and informal groups, including breastfeeding-support
and child-care networks, clubs and religious associations. Community-
based support, including that provided by other mothers, lay
and peer breastfeeding counsellors and certified lactation consultants,
can effectively enable women to feed their children appropriately.
Most communities have self-help traditions that could readily
serve as a base for building or expanding suitable support systems
to help families in this regard.

[link=]The International Baby Food Action Network: The International Code of Marketing
of Breastmilk Substitutes[/link]

"Health care system" means governmental, nongovernmental or private institutions or organisations engaged, directly or indirectly, in health care for mothers, infants and pregnant women; and [v]nurseries or childcare institutions[/v]. It also includes health workers in private practice. For the purposes of this Code, the health care system does not include pharmacies or other established sales outlets.

"Health worker" means a person working in a component of such a health care system, whether professional or nonprofessional, including voluntary, unpaid workers.
Article 7. Health workers

7.1 Health workers should encourage and protect breastfeeding; and those who are concerned in particular with maternal and infant nutrition should make themselves familiar with their responsibilities under this Code, including the information specified in Article 4.2.

4.2 Informational and educational materials, whether written, audio, or visual, dealing with the feeding of infants and intended to reach pregnant women and mothers of infants and young children, should include clear information on all the following points:


2. maternal nutrition, and the preparation for and maintenance of breastfeeding;

3. the negative effect on breastfeeding of introducing partial bottle feeding;

4. the difficulty of reversing the decision not to breastfeed; and

5. where needed, the proper use of infant formula, whether manufactured industrially or home prepared.

When such materials contain information about the use of infant formula, they should include the social and financial implications of its use; the health hazards of inappropriate foods or feeding methods; and, in particular, the health hazards of unnecessary or improper use of infant formula and other breastmilk substitutes. Such materials should not use any pictures or text which may idealise the use of breastmilk substitutes.

4.3 Donations of informational or educational equipment or materials by manufacturers or distributors should be made only at the request and with the written approval of the appropriate government authority or within guidelines given by governments for this purpose. Such equipment or materials may bear the donating company's name or logo, but should not refer to a proprietary product that is within the scope of this Code, and should be distributed only through the health care system.
7.2 Information provided by manufacturers and distributors to health professionals regarding products within the scope of this Code should be restricted to scientific and factual matters, and such information should not imply or create a belief that bottle feeding is equivalent or superior to breastfeeding. It should also include the information specified in Article 4.2.
7.4 Samples of infant formula or other products within the scope of this Code., or of equipment or utensils for their preparation or use, should not be provided to health workers except when necessary for the purpose of professional evaluation or research at the institutional level. Health workers should not give samples of infant formula to pregnant women, mothers of infants and young children, or members of their families.

Amy & DH, homeschooling Mama to
DD 9 love.gif DS 7 yrs   
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#69 of 69 Old 05-27-2006, 06:35 AM
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And of course, I'm assuming they are aware of all the scriptural references to nursing in the Bible?

And the fact that it's rather a slap in the face of the Creator to believe that the optimal system of infant feeding, created by Him, is being considered so dirty and vile :

And the fact that if they ever wipe a nose, a sneeze, a baby bum covered in urine or feces, slobber/drool, handle a pacifier or bottle nipple, etc. that they're being exposed to tons of other potentially "hazardous" materials anyway?????????!

And the fact that EVEN if all BF Moms do so just prior to dropping off their babes in the nursery, nothing changes the fact that if babe spits up 10 minutes later, you're STILL exposed to icky breastmilk????! Should all BF babies be off-limits to the nursery since they present a potential exposure to the icky hazardous substance? Nice. :

Amy & DH, homeschooling Mama to
DD 9 love.gif DS 7 yrs   
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