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#121 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 05:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenie
The city that I live in isn't quite so open, and for cultural and socioeconomic reasons, many women FF. I'm in the minority here. It's not really feasable for some women not to cover...

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would someone (I know Greenie may not be lurking) please explain what socioeconomic reasons might lead one to FF? It seems to me that if your economic status (or lack thereof) dictates your feeding choices, that BF would be the natural choice! After all, it's free!
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#122 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 05:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenie
Okay. What I mean is this:

#1 Priority - Baby's comfort
#2 Priority - Mommy's comfort
#3 Priority - Everyone Else's comfort

I do think that there is a balance that should be in place, that's all.
Nope. Strike number 3. It has no place at all in the equation.

-Angela
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#123 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 05:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenie
Oh, and Roman's Mom, it's a certain look that I'm talking about. It's this look that says "I double dog dare you to say something to me about what I'm doing because I'd just *love* to cause a scene." That's what I'm talking about.
Maybe this mama JUST got up the courage to nurse in public...
Maybe this mama was attacked for nursing yesterday...
Maybe this mama struggled for months to get her babe to latch on...
Mabye this mama FF her last 3 kids and is PROUD to be nursing...
Maybe this mama helped pass the laws that protect all of us nip...

Maybe you ought to worry about yourself, not some other mama.

-Angela
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#124 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 05:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by RubyV
As lactivists, we should try to normalize the act of feeding.
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#125 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 05:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenie
Excuse me for not wanting to see a stranger's breast.
You're excused. If you don't want to look- then don't. I don't look at women nursing under hooter hiders.....

-Angela
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#126 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 05:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by *caitlinsmom*
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would someone (I know Greenie may not be lurking) please explain what socioeconomic reasons might lead one to FF? It seems to me that if your economic status (or lack thereof) dictates your feeding choices, that BF would be the natural choice! After all, it's free!
Women that have to go back to work at retail or factory jobs often can not pump. I would say that's the biggest (and they would get formula free from WIC)

-Angela
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#127 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 05:25 PM
 
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Totally OT.....

I suppose so. But I worked retail at one time and they have to give you two fifteen minute breaks and a lunch break in an 8 hour shift... (federal law here!)so that translates into work two hours, pump on break, work two hours, pump at lunch, work two hours, pump on break, then go home and nurse. Longer hours, in a factory, I can't say. I have no experience there.
I do know that my former assistant qualified for WIC when she had her son. She chose to BF. WIC got her a pump! She managed to BF for a over a year even after she went back to work as a waitress when her son was six months. So, it can be done, if you really want to. I guess that's the catch... you really have to want to do it.
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#128 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenie
I am simply sudjesting the idea that you nurse discreetly. Offending people isn't a good way to help society to be more BF friendly.. I don't think that you should comprimise your child's comfort to do so, either.

All I'm saying is that in public, a person should show consideration for those around them. Just don't pull up your shirt for all the world to see. I'm not taling about a quick lift-n-lach, I'm talking about a Mom with a ZZ cup letting it all hang out. If you want to do that, it's totally your right. Of course it is, I mean, why wouldn't you want to show the world that you are making the best decision for your baby? I just don't think that it's totally appropriate to bust it out and have no respect for those around you.
Ok - now, can you see how this arguement may suggest that if you're fat or have large boobs - you're not nice to look at? And showing yourself in public 'hurts' our chances of helping "society to be more BF friendly"? I find that totally offensive. Also you seem to be suggesting that it's disrespectful to breastfeed simply because someone else finds it offensive - rather than it's disrespectful to find breastfeeding offensive.
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#129 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by *caitlinsmom*
I guess that's the catch... you really have to want to do it.
I agree.

-Angela
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#130 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by *caitlinsmom*
Totally OT.....

I suppose so. But I worked retail at one time and they have to give you two fifteen minute breaks and a lunch break in an 8 hour shift... (federal law here!)so that translates into work two hours, pump on break, work two hours, pump at lunch, work two hours, pump on break, then go home and nurse. Longer hours, in a factory, I can't say. I have no experience there.
I do know that my former assistant qualified for WIC when she had her son. She chose to BF. WIC got her a pump! She managed to BF for a over a year even after she went back to work as a waitress when her son was six months. So, it can be done, if you really want to. I guess that's the catch... you really have to want to do it.
As a pumper myself, I have to admit that it can be challenging if you work in a hostile enviroment. I had a pump because a good samaratain on another board sent it to me when my dh got laid off and Ihad to go back to work at 3 weeks pp, we had absolutely zero money. Not all WIC offices offer pumps, and while in theory everyone should get 2 15 min breaks and a 30 min lunch break, that doesn't always happen. So I do understand when women have a hard time making pumping work. I pumped for 2 years, but I think I got lucky (I'm also just personally very aggressive as well).
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#131 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna
Maybe this mama JUST got up the courage to nurse in public...
Maybe this mama was attacked for nursing yesterday...
Maybe this mama struggled for months to get her babe to latch on...
Mabye this mama FF her last 3 kids and is PROUD to be nursing...
Maybe this mama helped pass the laws that protect all of us nip...

Maybe you ought to worry about yourself, not some other mama.

-Angela
I hadn't thought about it that way. That is true, I don't know what that mom is going through, or has been through. I'm more than happy to see another mom NIP, and it really encourages me. I have a lot of issues with my own body. I'm not a skinny minnie and it's a challenge to NIP for me. I've gotten really dirty looks for NIP, one particular incident at a restaurant. I hated the way this woman was looking at me, pretty much because she was from Mexico, and the wealthy Mexicans look at BFing as low-class because the poor Mexicans generally can't afford to FF.

The only great thing that happened was that as soon as he was through nursing, and I closed my shirt and pulled down the blanket, he looked over at her while I was burping him and gave her a huge grin, his mouth still dripping with milk.

Oh, and Catlin'sMom, Angela is right. WIC gives out free formula, and these women generally must return to work right away. That, and that's the way their Mothers, Aunts, Sisters, and Grandmothers did things, and they still let their kids CIO and they spank. So, the majority of the young Moms I see are of these parenting beliefs. I live in a pretty closed-minded place.

And the things with seeing breasts, I don't look. It makes me (personally, not judging anyone else) feel uncomfortable because of abuse that occoured in my childhood. I always try to make it to nurse-ins and write tons of letters to advocate BFing. I'm very supportive of BFing. Nothing makes me more sad than seeing a baby being fed a bottle of something that is clearly not BM.

I don't want to argue anymore. Really. I try to be discreet for my own insecurities. If you have the cajones to do it, more power to you. I, personally, like the tent.. And want to make one myself. :
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#132 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenie
Okay. What I mean is this:

#1 Priority - Baby's comfort
#2 Priority - Mommy's comfort
#3 Priority - Everyone Else's comfort

I do think that there is a balance that should be in place, that's all.
pak

bravo! i agree. discretion can go a loooooong way in promoting bfing.

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#133 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:29 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KirstenMary
pak

bravo! i agree. discretion can go a loooooong way in promoting bfing.
Just in case you skimmed over it, I will repost my previous post about how discretion is not what is going to go the "looooong way" to promote bfing.

Quote:
Actually it's the attitude that you have to be discreet to breastfeed that does nothing for the BFing movement. It is attitudes like the one you are putting into your posts(the negative comments about large breasts and how you dont want to see breast, etc... all negative) that hurt the movement.

Discretion is subjective... some would say being discreet would be nursing in the restroom, others with a blanket, etc.... Saying discretion is necessary for NIP makes breastfeeding in public conditional and hurts the movement. It leaves the range for what is acceptable up to the individual person and that is dangerous for nursing mothers everywhere. What if someone walked up to you and asked you to leave a public place even tho you were breastfeeding under a cover? After all in their opinion the mere act of breastfeeding in public was offensive.... ??? see the road this leads to?

You can absolutely be discreet if that is what works for you, there is nothing wrong with it. But judging other moms for not being what you personally consider discreet is the problem. We should accept everyone whether they are under a cover or have their "zz cup" hanging out.
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#134 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna
Maybe this mama JUST got up the courage to nurse in public...
Maybe this mama was attacked for nursing yesterday...
Maybe this mama struggled for months to get her babe to latch on...
Mabye this mama FF her last 3 kids and is PROUD to be nursing...
Maybe this mama helped pass the laws that protect all of us nip...

Maybe you ought to worry about yourself, not some other mama.

-Angela

i have gotten really nasty looks, ive had people usher their children away from me. If somewhere gives me that "you are doing that HERE!?" look, before they even get a chance I meet their gaze and "dare them". they always back down. They can be offended, but i dont want to hear about it.
there are still, sadly, people offended by marriage outside of religion or race. I would never say, "maybe you should be discreet about your relationship in public, you know, as not to offend anyone."

We are talking about rights, my right to nurse, my dd's right to eat. Whenever you are changing a societal norm, people will naturally be offended. when you pave the way, you want to pave it large enough to let others through. If we normalize discreet and covered nursing, what does THAT do for our cause? If we normalize breastfeeding in public period, it is up to the mothers discretion, as it should be.

~jen~ )O( mama to k 07/05 o 5/08 and c 12/09
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#135 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KirstenMary
bravo! i agree. discretion can go a loooooong way in promoting bfing.


:

No.

-Angela
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#136 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greenie
I don't want to argue anymore. Really. I try to be discreet for my own insecurities. If you have the cajones to do it, more power to you. I, personally, like the tent.. And want to make one myself. :

Make a tent. Wear a tent. But please don't feel that you have to. And don't press for "discreet" nursing in the name of lactivism, 'cause it ain't.

-Angela
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#137 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna


:

No.

-Angela
Um, yes. :

Maybe not to the die-hard lactivist, but more so to the typical WebMD-er who is on the fence. To the woman who is uncertain as to what she wants to do.

Who is going to have more of a positive impact on her? Me, NIPing while wearing a comfy nursing shirt? Or the topless woman nursing her two toddlers (yes, it does happen)? (And don't get me wrong...I just NIPed my 3 y/o at Chuck E Cheese). My goal is to make women want to nurse, not to make them turn away. My goal is to feed my baby, not to take a stand and prove a point.

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#138 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by alegna

Make a tent. Wear a tent. But please don't feel that you have to. And don't press for "discreet" nursing in the name of lactivism, 'cause it ain't.

-Angela
I press for discretion in the name of BFing promotion in general.

There's room for everyone on this planet, you know. Lactivists don't own the rights to the "only way" to breastfeed. My opinion is just as valid as yours, just to a different group of people.

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Originally Posted by KirstenMary
There's room for everyone on this planet, you know. Lactivists don't own the rights to the "only way" to breastfeed. My opinion is just as valid as yours, just to a different group of people.
That's right. There are lots of way to breastfeed. I have no problem with you being discreet- go ahead, cover up. BUT DON'T ASK ME TO.

-Angela
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#141 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 07:11 PM
 
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If the idea of discretion is no one can see what you're doing, how the hell can that "promote" breastfeeding?
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#142 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 07:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KirstenMary
I press for discretion in the name of BFing promotion in general.

There's room for everyone on this planet, you know. Lactivists don't own the rights to the "only way" to breastfeed. My opinion is just as valid as yours, just to a different group of people.
What if your definition of discreet is different than my definition? What if Pat Robertsons' definition is different than yours? Whose do we go with - who gets left out? No one is saying that no one should be discreet - if you want to be discreet go right ahead - but pushing it on someone else is like saying that those who are not discreet are 'wrong'. We're not wrong - if you didn't like looking at peoples mouths while they were eating (say for instance) that would be your own problem- not ours for not covering up our mouths.

I don't know what any of this has to do with the size of the planet.
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#143 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 09:07 PM
 
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If the idea of discretion is no one can see what you're doing, how the hell can that "promote" breastfeeding?
Actually, I don't cover up, so people can see what I am doing. They just can't see my breast. I have had many, many women applaud me and give me a big . I'd say that's a positive impact.

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#144 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 09:10 PM
 
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What if your definition of discreet is different than my definition? What if Pat Robertsons' definition is different than yours? Whose do we go with - who gets left out? No one is saying that no one should be discreet - if you want to be discreet go right ahead - but pushing it on someone else is like saying that those who are not discreet are 'wrong'. We're not wrong - if you didn't like looking at peoples mouths while they were eating (say for instance) that would be your own problem- not ours for not covering up our mouths.

I don't know what any of this has to do with the size of the planet.
You make a good point, and no one is saying that the topless nursers (yeah, they are around) are wrong. But they are not going to encourage an on-the-fence woman to breastfeed. And that's fine if that's not important to them.

But it is to me.

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Originally Posted by alegna
That's right. There are lots of way to breastfeed. I have no problem with you being discreet- go ahead, cover up. BUT DON'T ASK ME TO.

-Angela
I wouldn't dream of it.

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How does anyone really know how someone is going to feel if they see a woman with her shirt pulled up nursing and both breasts out? How do you know if that woman is going to say, "Ewww" and walk away? Why is it that debates seem to focus on the 2% of people that do a certain thing. I'm sure it's a rare occurrence, so why even bring it up like that's what the majority of lactivists do? And why should anyone care if they do it?

I NIP to feed my child, not to recruit other breastfeeders. And if that's what someone else wants to do, so be it.
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#147 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 09:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JeDeeLenae
How does anyone really know how someone is going to feel if they see a woman with her shirt pulled up nursing and both breasts out? How do you know if that woman is going to say, "Ewww" and walk away? Why is it that debates seem to focus on the 2% of people that do a certain thing. I'm sure it's a rare occurrence, so why even bring it up like that's what the majority of lactivists do? And why should anyone care if they do it?
I NIP to feed my child, not to recruit other breastfeeders. And if that's what someone else wants to do, so be it.
They shouldn't. But they do.

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#148 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 09:55 PM
 
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How does anyone really know how someone is going to feel if they see a woman with her shirt pulled up nursing and both breasts out? How do you know if that woman is going to say, "Ewww" and walk away? Why is it that debates seem to focus on the 2% of people that do a certain thing. I'm sure it's a rare occurrence, so why even bring it up like that's what the majority of lactivists do? And why should anyone care if they do it?

I NIP to feed my child, not to recruit other breastfeeders. And if that's what someone else wants to do, so be it.
:

i really dont care if the fact that my breast is "hanging out there" makes someone not bf......i am feeding my child, and thats it, his nutrition and needs come first.
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#149 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 09:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KirstenMary
But they are not going to encourage an on-the-fence woman to breastfeed.

do we truly know this?
do you think that a woman who is on the fence about nursing is going to be put off by a topless nurser? wouldnt it be fair to say that a woman "on the fence" may be put off of nursing because everytime she sees a nursing woman she is all covered up or struggling to keep baby covered and looking disheveled? I know that I would feel more comfortable nursing somewhere if I have previously seen someone else do it openly and uncovered. I would be put off the the shame associated with covering up everytime i was out and about.

~jen~ )O( mama to k 07/05 o 5/08 and c 12/09
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#150 of 281 Old 08-07-2006, 09:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by inchijen
do we truly know this?
do you think that a woman who is on the fence about nursing is going to be put off by a topless nurser? wouldnt it be fair to say that a woman "on the fence" may be put off of nursing because everytime she sees a nursing woman she is all covered up or struggling to keep baby covered and looking disheveled? I know that I would feel more comfortable nursing somewhere if I have previously seen someone else do it openly and uncovered. I would be put off the the shame associated with covering up everytime i was out and about.
I never said anything about covering up with a hooter hider (or whatever it's called). I said, in fact, that I don't use a cover. And, yes, I think an otf woman could easily be put off by a topless woman. Post a poll on WebMD, and you'll see what I mean.

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