Basically forced out of church for breastfeeding - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:02 PM
 
chaoticzenmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,957
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Those were absolutely not porn. Very beautiful. Thanks

Our children make a study of us in a way no one else ever will.  If we don't act according to our values, they will know.~Starhawk Rainbow.gif  New  User Agreement! http://www.mothering.com/community/wiki/user-agreement

chaoticzenmom is offline  
#62 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:18 PM
 
Eve is my co-pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
: : : : :
That about covers it. Ugh!
Kudos to you and your friend and your hubby's and I will not say what to them...
Eve is my co-pilot is offline  
#63 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:21 PM
Banned
 
Pandora114's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Shamelessly using "devices"
Posts: 7,100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Let's try this again

I Didn't read the whole thread....

Here's my response though:

Ask the pastor how he thinks Mary fed Jesus Christ when He was a baby. If GOD did not want women to breastfeed he wouldn't have given us the ability to make milk.

Mary breastfed Jesus, out and about, in Temple, at the market, she didn't stay home, she HAD to run errands while Joseph did carpentry work for other people. She had to go out and get food, water, she brought Jesus with her. She NIP'd Jesus wherever and whenever she went.

If Breastmilk and the breast was good enough for Jesus, and didn't corrupt the teenagers of that day, it's DAMN good enough for your children. And it Isn't your fault, nor your responsibility to keep the devil out of everyone elses thoughts. THEY are responsible for keeping "the devil and lust" out of their own minds. You are doing what God has given you the ability to. You should not be held responsible for keeping lust out of everyone elses head.
Pandora114 is offline  
#64 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:21 PM
 
AesSedai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMama View Post
Oh, and here are the photos in question

Mine

My Friends (I have her permission)
Sheesh...I can't imagine how anyone could look at those and think it's pornography or prostitution. Uh, pornography is defined as the depiction of erotic behavior intended to cause sexual excitement and prostitution is sex for money. What the hell are they thinking??? Those people who called you those names have some major issues. Perhaps they should speak with a therapist. Seems they are uncomfortable with the feelings your photos created within themselves, and instead of dealing with their own sexual issues, they tried to place their baggage on the shoulders of you and your friend.
AesSedai is offline  
#65 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:25 PM
 
Sabo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Uh, pornography is defined as the depiction of erotic behavior intended to cause sexual excitement and prostitution is sex for money.
Wait, wait, wait, did your baby pay for the milk? 'Cause that's not cool at all!

By the way, nice pictures and nothing sexual about either of them.
Sabo is offline  
#66 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:30 PM
 
JessasMilkMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 2,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am so sorry. That really is absurd! They are clearly in the wrong. I've seen plenty of art of Mary nursing Jesus - is she a prostitute engaging in pornography?? I would have left, too. I would make sure everyone knew what they did. ((hugs))

~Shannon~ Proud Mama of 3 girls, ages 7,4, and 2.
JessasMilkMama is offline  
#67 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:30 PM
 
Treasuremapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,708
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Unbelievable. s:

My husband's grandfather (now deceased) told my husband that all the women in his tiny, east Texas town (population less than sixty, just south of the Red River) used to nurse babies IN CHURCH during services to keep the babies quiet. My husband's 103 year old grandmother, still alive, recently told me that she nursed all of her babies until they were at least two -- she had ten babies, one stillborn, all born at home, one was thirteen pounds weighed on a cotton scale. My dh's grandmother also nursed one of her neighbors babies because the neighbor could not breastfeed (and there was not formula back then in that community).

All of those babies were nursed in church, during services, to keep the babies quiet during sermons. It was just a practical thing that folks did. They were very religious, too, no drinking, no dancing, no smoking. But breastfeeding in church was encouraged.

Ya know, getting out of a church that doesn't fit your beliefs can be very liberating. I know you will find the right spiritual home for you and your family.
Treasuremapper is offline  
#68 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:31 PM
 
ktbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NOVA
Posts: 2,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabo View Post
Wait, wait, wait, did your baby pay for the milk? 'Cause that's not cool at all!
: up


Get a job, Baby! There's no such thing as a free lunch anymore!
4 months is PLENTY old enough to be earning your keep. You think this milk grows on trees??

Sorry, carried away.
ktbug is offline  
#69 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:40 PM
 
JessasMilkMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 2,900
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is a whole gallery of Mary nursing Jesus

http://www.fisheaters.com/marialactans.html

~Shannon~ Proud Mama of 3 girls, ages 7,4, and 2.
JessasMilkMama is offline  
#70 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 02:40 PM
 
LittlePeanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabo View Post
Wait, wait, wait, did your baby pay for the milk? 'Cause that's not cool at all!

By the way, nice pictures and nothing sexual about either of them.
Too funny!

Quote:
Pornography
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Pornography (disambiguation).
Pornography Portal

Pornographic moviesPornography (from Greek πόρνη (porni) "prostitute" and γραφή (grafi) "writing"), more informally referred to as porn or porno, is the representation of the human body or sexual activity with the goal of sexual arousal. It is similar to, but distinct from erotica, though the two terms are often used interchangeably.

In general, "erotica" refers to portrayals of sexually arousing material that hold or aspire to artistic or historical merit, whereas "pornography" often connotes the prurient depiction of sexual acts, with little or no artistic value. The line between "erotica" and the term "pornography" (which is frequently considered a pejorative) is often highly subjective. In practice, pornography can be defined merely as erotica that is perceived as "obscene". The definition of what one considers obscene can differ among persons, cultures and eras. This leaves legal actions by those who oppose pornography open to wide interpretation.
Quote:
Prostitution
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Prostitute)

A sex worker in Germany.Prostitution is the sale of sexual services for money or other kind of return. Most prostitutes are women who offer their services to men, although there are male prostitutes as well. Customers of prostitutes are known as clients in Quebec, Canada, johns in the United States, punters in the UK, whilst in Sweden they are known as "Torskar", which means cod or loser.

The English word whore, referring to (female) prostitutes, is taken from the Old English word hōra (from the Indo-European root kā meaning "desire") but usage of that word is widely considered pejorative and prostitute is a less value-laden term. On the other hand, in Germany most prostitutes' organizations deliberately use the word Hure (whore) since they feel that prostitute is a bureaucratic term and an unnecessary euphemism for something not in need of euphemisms. See also: call girl, courtesan, escort.
You are neither displaying pornography or a prostitute by definition. Those photos are especially beautiful and you and your friend should hold your heads high.

LP
LittlePeanut is offline  
#71 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 03:07 PM
 
lissabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Medford,OR
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
o..m... gosh!!! That's INSANE! Why is the world this way? You should have told them Jesus would be weeping to hear a breastfeeding mother insulted in such a way. Please keep us posted. I'm super curious what denomination this is..
lissabob is offline  
#72 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 03:26 PM
 
njeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pynki View Post
I wish I could say I was suprised, but honestly, I'm not. Iowa is sometimes very backwards. I've gotten strange looks from people at my MIL's church. Apparently breastfeeding belongs in the "cry" area or in the nursery, but ONLY there.

I want to make a onesie that says "Good enough for Jesus is good enough for me. Breastmilk, God's plan."
:
Sorry you have to put up with such bigotry.
njeb is offline  
#73 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
JamesMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Is a PROUD Iowan (finally...)
Posts: 8,157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't want to say anything negative about the denomination, the former pastor (the one that half raised me) is now preaching at a different church and he was livid when my friends mother informed him of what is going on. He said it is NOT Biblical and not Christian. I'm in the process of drafting a letter to send to the state district head and the main district head.

The church is Foursquare, a sub-group of Pentecostal.

Renae wife to J :, Mama to 4.5y/o J-bird and 2y/o A : and E coming in late Dec/Early Jan. My husband had a living donor kidney transplant! :
JamesMama is offline  
#74 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 04:33 PM
 
stockingup99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


I've left two churches because of breastfeeding. The Greek Orthodox Church I was raised in, and Northridge.

In the Greek Orthodox church, I asked the priest if he could suggest a nice quiet place to nurse, and he laughed and said not even in your car in the parking lot, that the women would be mean to me. I nursed on a bench in the main lobby anyways. later I heard a news story that the church had lost a lawsuit, becuase they told a blind lady she dhad to leave her dog outside, because it was unclean. I laughed for ten minutes, it validated my feelings that the church was absurd. I have since found a kind and loving God.

At Northridge, they knew my baby was breastfed, and asked me to bring a bottle to the nursery next time. When I brought one of my precious few bottles of expressed milk, they asked me to dump it and fill it with 'free safer formula' and called my expressed milk a hazardous bodily fluid. Even after a letter writing campaign, curtesy of this wonderful forum, and links to the CDC and OSHA websites stating that it wasn't a hazardous bodily fluid, they wouldn't budge. I haven't been back inside that church, although I have stopped by to use the playground outside.

Wasn't Jesus breastfed? How did that formula rep that gave them the free formula get around the WHO guidelines. Northridge does a ton of missionary work, don't the WHO guidelines apply to that too? (Don't highjack, find the old thread, please.)

You're not alone. I hope reading my stories will show you churches can be obscene, and absurd. You know what God thinks about nursing, don't let them shake you.

:
stockingup99 is offline  
#75 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 04:38 PM
 
spero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the back of beyond
Posts: 9,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The more I think about this, the more I realize that - while I'm certainly offended at the notion of the image of a breastfeeding baby being labeled pornographic - I'm most offended that this man DARED to call you a prostitute! My husband would not have shown any restraint, even in a "religious" meeting, had a pastor said such a thing about me (in regard to breastfeeding, or anything else).

Oh, that just makes me so mad ... I'm so sorry that you have to find forgiveness in your heart for that!

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
spero is offline  
#76 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 04:41 PM
 
spero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the back of beyond
Posts: 9,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockingup99 View Post
I have since found a kind and loving God.
Sorry - the Greek Orthodox worship a different God?

God isn't the problem. It's His supposed ambassadors.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
spero is offline  
#77 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 05:13 PM
PJJ
 
PJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,002
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here is something that might be helpful...

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detchristian.htm

Take care and good luck!

PJJ
PJJ is offline  
#78 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 05:19 PM
 
vanessab23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMama View Post
The way he made it sound is like the whole TOWN has seen our myspace and they've gotten calls from several different people. WTF? Thats just bizzare to me. There is a boy in our youth group on my friends list but I don't think he ratted us out. His profile isn't exactly innocnet anyway.

I'm soooo tempted to complain to a higher up...district or nationwide supervisor or something...

maybe you should.....

mama. that's truly reprehensible

Miles (December 2005) Pascual (March 2009). P's was my beautiful home waterbirth that healed me from my M's birth. natural birth, midwifery, postpartum depression, babywearing, breastfeeding.
vanessab23 is offline  
#79 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 05:25 PM
 
mamaesq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Here, there, everywhere
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Nae- I read about this earlier and can't even begin to wrap my mind around it. I would be furious. I really have nothing more to add that hasn't already been said. Just wanted to lend my support.

I "recognize" a few people over here too...hi Bobbi!

Stacy

Mom to two boys, 5 and 3, and pregnant with number 3! EDD 10/8/10
mamaesq is offline  
#80 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 05:29 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,790
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Oh, I see now! He didn't mean prostitution, he meant plagiarism!

Your photo http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82...m/100_0734.jpg

The image you copied http://www.worth1000.com/web/media/27163/original.jpg

(apprently it's this woman called Mary, and her toddler is called something starting with a J, but I don't think it was John or Joseph. Oh, and notice that you can see his bottom! Shock, horror!)

I'm very interested to hear what the higher-ups say.
wannabe is offline  
#81 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 05:54 PM
 
lissabob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Medford,OR
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe View Post
Oh, I see now! He didn't mean prostitution, he meant plagiarism!

Your photo http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82...m/100_0734.jpg

The image you copied

(apprently it's this woman called Mary, and her toddler is called something starting with a J, but I don't think it was John or Joseph. Oh, and notice that you can see his bottom! Shock, horror!)

I'm very interested to hear what the higher-ups say.
I have to say that "hold" looks mighty uncomfortable. LOL!
lissabob is offline  
#82 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 06:03 PM
 
Irishmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: In the bat cave with heartmama
Posts: 45,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can see the issue with the friend's picture being pornographic. I mean. you can SEE her SHOULDERS!!!!



JamesMama, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Irishmommy is offline  
#83 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 06:11 PM
 
dallaschildren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
First off....what a horribly insensitive thing to do. I am so sorry. Secondly, it is quite possibly illegal as well. Call an attorney. Seriously. And in the interium I would check up on Iowa's laws on tape recording. If they didn't ask your permission, then it's highly likely it was an illegal taping. And how crafty for them to have the foresight to tape the exchange. But not crafty enough to still do what they did to you. Any smart attorney would have strongly recommended against this meeting with you and perhaps that's why they weren't represented by anyone at the table but by themselves.

DC
dallaschildren is offline  
#84 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 06:15 PM
 
ColoradoMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: mooning TAO
Posts: 10,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That was outrageous and uncalled for. I am so, so sorry that happened to you. Unfortunately, many "godly" people seem to forget that God is watching them. That must have hurt so badly. It was very sneaky and underhanded of them as well.
ColoradoMama is offline  
#85 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 06:19 PM
 
Pynki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Inside the café au lait
Posts: 7,891
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishmommy View Post
I can see the issue with the friend's picture being pornographic. I mean. you can SEE her SHOULDERS!!!!



JamesMama, I'm sorry you had to go through that.


Of COURSE!!! Those sinful, sinful, SHOULDERS!!!
OY!

It's lonely being the only XX in a house of XYs.
Pynki is offline  
#86 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 06:59 PM
 
Maggies*Mommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: No. California
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMama View Post
I don't want to say anything negative about the denomination, the former pastor (the one that half raised me) is now preaching at a different church and he was livid when my friends mother informed him of what is going on. He said it is NOT Biblical and not Christian. I'm in the process of drafting a letter to send to the state district head and the main district head.

The church is Foursquare, a sub-group of Pentecostal.

WOW Nae-I go to Foursquare too and never once have worried about BFing. I hope this isnt a Foursquare-wide problem.
Maggies*Mommy is offline  
#87 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 07:15 PM
 
Learnintolaugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschildren View Post
And in the interium I would check up on Iowa's laws on tape recording. If they didn't ask your permission, then it's highly likely it was an illegal taping. DC
I believe that actually in a face-to-face situation where the recorder is in plain view, the consent of all parties is presumed.

Still, the whole thing was really, really shitty for them to do and it makes me feel so sad for you and the other woman as well. I hope that you can find a church that welcomes you w/ open arms. Because that one, at least the leadership, was seriously screwed up.
Learnintolaugh is offline  
#88 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 07:18 PM
 
rozzie'sma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Amdist the urban decay
Posts: 2,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
How upsetting. Please pursue this up the chain of command. I cannot believe that the higher ups would be pleased with this pastor's behavior, it reflects poorly on the entire community. As he said himself, as christians you are held to a higher standard.
rozzie'sma is offline  
#89 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 07:46 PM
 
dallaschildren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Learnintolaugh View Post
I believe that actually in a face-to-face situation where the recorder is in plain view, the consent of all parties is presumed.

Still, the whole thing was really, really shitty for them to do and it makes me feel so sad for you and the other woman as well. I hope that you can find a church that welcomes you w/ open arms. Because that one, at least the leadership, was seriously screwed up.
Possibly...but even in plain view the parties all have to agree verbally and on "recorded" record that they know they are being taped and that they give permission.

DC
dallaschildren is offline  
#90 of 209 Old 11-28-2006, 08:56 PM
 
kdlink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Central IL
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I always thought that the midwest was a little less freaked out about bf'ing than most of the US. I bf in church (usually in the second row) an have never had an issue! As a matter of fact it has been strongly supported by the entire church. As it should be!!! People have mentioned the 'cry room' if it helps me feel more comfortable, but they have always been clear in saying that Rachel and I weren't disturbing them.

Please let us know how it goes, we care and want a good outcome for you and your family. I agree that you need to find a church that follows Christ's teachings. The judgemental, improper behavior of the church leaders do not follow any guidelines that are discussed in the bible.

Your pictures are beautiful! This is a special time in your child's life and your pictures and those of Jesus and Mary show the special bond we share with our babies!

Shame on them!!!
kdlink is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off