Basically forced out of church for breastfeeding - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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Old 11-29-2006, 05:15 PM
 
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I cannot believe that. I've nursed in our church, mostly in the nursery or out in the narthex, for my own comfort, I'm kind of a claude when it comes to keeping covered, and nobody has so much as batted an eyelash at me.

Great letter, and I hope it all gets taken care of.

BTW, hopefully they didn't find my myspace page...there is a pic of me nursing my 13 month old! *gasp!*
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Old 11-29-2006, 07:55 PM
 
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How awful for you and your friend! Good for you for standing up for yourself, that was a great letter! I can't wait to hear the churches response.
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Old 11-29-2006, 08:10 PM
 
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GREAT Letter. you handled that really, really well. I can see who walks in Jesus' light in this situation!

Third generation WOHM. I work by choice.
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Old 11-30-2006, 12:08 AM
 
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What probably happened is that one person called him about the pix (very probably somebody you know, as they would've had to have been searching for you) and then he showed the pix around to people he knew would be offended and encouraged their shared outrage. I guarantee you that he could not provide more than 1 or 2 people who could've called about this.

Good for you for writing the letter. If it were me, I'd take it to the press, but I fully understand your perference not to invite that kind of chaos into your world.
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Old 11-30-2006, 01:15 PM
 
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Nae, has anyone gotten back to you about this yet?

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Old 11-30-2006, 01:56 PM
 
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I also think it was a good letter (however, pointing out the law can play a major role...might want to send that as a follow up).

Please tell us how it goes (subbed).

Orthodox Mama
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:11 PM
 
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Not sure if you need any info. But Ive found these links vary helpful for Christian nursing debates:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8148/verses.html
More links at the bottom of this link

I'm sorry you've been treated this way. they should have had you speak to the person or people ( I'm thinking it was just a nosy busy body lady who likes to pick on people) to talk to you.

Add: I think a nurse in at the church with signs... Signs with scripture on them
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:38 PM
 
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No one has gotten back to me. My aunt, that goes to that chuch, called last night but we were eating supper and DH said he'd call her back today. The pastors daughter emailed my friend basically saying that we sometimes have to submit to the authority God placed over us and that sometimes is hurts and blah blah. And my friend said if he'd simply exercised his authorty and requested the pictures be taken down that would have been one thing but it was his language and the shaming aspect of it and the defrimation of chjaracter and lies. Because apparently, according to Pastors daughter it was a few members of the youth group that spoke up.

What I guess happened is Pastor's grandson brought his girlfriend to church. Whitney discreely nursed Alex during song service, and I believe I may have very discreetly nursed James...he was fussy that night (if it's the night I'm thinking of) she got all bent out of shape, got on Myspace, found our pages through Kyles page and got all bent out of shape about that and showed her mom...I'm sure her mother was offended because I say right in the 'about me' that I do NOT support bottle feeding by choice. Anyway, casos ensued from there. Not sure who these random people from town are...but o'well.

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Old 11-30-2006, 03:00 PM
 
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First of all, you never, ever, ever "submit to authority" when they're wrong.

Second, I think your pastor has something to learn from the salem witch experience.

I'm glad you sent the email.
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:05 PM
 
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And my friend said if he'd simply exercised his authorty and requested the pictures be taken down that would have been one thing but it was his language and the shaming aspect of it and the defrimation of chjaracter and lies.
EXACTLY. Don't back down from this, Nae!

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Old 11-30-2006, 03:08 PM
 
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I hope this is taken in the spirit it is offered, but the whole church system seems hopelessly inbred to me. I mean, I'm the pastor's wife and assuming my husband ever did feel the need to chastise a church member, I wouldn't be called in to witness it. Nor would complaints from the pastor's daughter (OK, granted in our case she's five ) be given extra weight. It just doesn't sound like a healthy church to me--lots of triangulation, breaking confidences, and shaming.

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Old 11-30-2006, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think the pastors wife was there because she's a licensed pastor as well.

But you're right, just because PD complained we get called out? My friends mom called PD and she said that Whitney nursed at Wednesday service and completely pulled up her shirt and fully exposed her breast TWICE...kind of amazing since I know for a fact she wore my NURSING shirt that day because I brought it for her when she spilled something on hersekf at work. PD got all bent out of shape because she doesn't want her precious son seeing a boob (I really feel sorry for this woman, really...she has some MAJOR body issues. She is unable to say breast or vagina or anything else...it's really sad)

I don't believe Whitney was over exposed, It was a nursing shirt, it's hard to expose yourself in a double layered nursing shirt.

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Old 11-30-2006, 03:30 PM
 
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What I guess happened is Pastor's grandson brought his girlfriend to church.....

... she got all bent out of shape, got on Myspace, found our pages through Kyles page and got all bent out of shape about that and showed her mom...I'm sure her mother was offended because I say right in the 'about me' that I do NOT support bottle feeding by choice. Anyway, casos ensued from there. Not sure who these random people from town are...but o'well.
See them being judgemental is bringing out that side in me, and I'm wondering why these teens have any business on My Space to begin with if they are so wonderful. It not exactly an appropriate site for young people.

It's kind of like all the people who are so offended by Britney Spears being caught pantiless by the paparazzi...when people had to go to some really rude celebrity blogs to see the pix. KWIM?

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Old 11-30-2006, 03:32 PM
 
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All right, so the ignorance of youth first brought this subject to the forefront. In that case, the "more educated" adults should have informed the youth that breastfeeding is normal and is certainly not indecent. They should have been told that it is not the same as dressing provocatively to sexually excite; it is a form of nourishment for children. Instead, the adults jumped on the "bandwagon of ignorance" along with the youth.

And going to what Annettemarie said, the pastor's wife, she is also a pastor in the church, isn't she? I think I saw that in the original post. Got my answer.
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:48 PM
 
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hi nae! nice to see you here so sorry about this happening to you. it's beyond words how disgusted i am. pornography? lol. ok. then i'm very proudly the biggest porn star in my town! i nurse dd everywhere. what people must think of me and my dirty, gutter, flesh-baring ways! hang in there. these people will have to answer to the big man in the end. pray for their corrupted souls. a shame, really. you'd think they would want you to nurse as Jesus nursed. oh well. i say let's all go over there and whip em out and nurse out babies. anyone have toddlers? i bet that's a mortal sin. now if i could get someone to watch my cats i'll put on my hooker boots and get my fish-net, scantilly clad bottm over there to show them what pornographic really means. a disgrace.
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Old 11-30-2006, 03:49 PM
 
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The "submitting to authority" view assumes that the authority figure has submitted himself or herself to God. So the question for the pastor from this perspective is whether God has called him to keep women from breastfeeding their children in church, without cover-ups, the way Jesus was likely breastfed.

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Old 11-30-2006, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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oh well. i say let's all go over there and whip em out and nurse out babies. anyone have toddlers? i bet that's a mortal sin. now if i could get someone to watch my cats i'll put on my hooker boots and get my fish-net, scantilly clad bottm over there to show them what pornographic really means. a disgrace.
LOL!! Mine is 22 months...guess thats bad...

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Old 11-30-2006, 04:09 PM
 
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Re: the pictures in question.

JamesMama -- I think you are going to have problems with your own picture with the higher-ups. Obviously the pastor is in the wrong here in how he handled things. Shouldn't have made it a big deal --- "do me a favor and change the picture to something else." etc

The friend's picture and the Mary and Jesus pictures are so sweet because they show the mom and the baby, in their entirety, and you can see that the mom is nuturing the baby while the baby is nursing. The close-up of the breast and baby lacks this key bit of imagery.

I would change the myspace page to include a picture with your arms and face as well as your breast and baby. That way the focus is where it should be -- that you are caring for this baby in the way that God intended.

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Old 11-30-2006, 04:10 PM
 
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My son weaned at just over four. Sorry. We're out.

Amanda Rose, author, Rebuild From Depression: A Nutrient Guide. Don't miss this opportunity to build a business telling friends about probiotic foods and grass fed meats: Beyond Organic Review.

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Old 11-30-2006, 04:48 PM
 
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Re: the pictures in question.

JamesMama -- I think you are going to have problems with your own picture with the higher-ups. Obviously the pastor is in the wrong here in how he handled things. Shouldn't have made it a big deal --- "do me a favor and change the picture to something else." etc

The friend's picture and the Mary and Jesus pictures are so sweet because they show the mom and the baby, in their entirety, and you can see that the mom is nuturing the baby while the baby is nursing. The close-up of the breast and baby lacks this key bit of imagery.

I would change the myspace page to include a picture with your arms and face as well as your breast and baby. That way the focus is where it should be -- that you are caring for this baby in the way that God intended.
that is definitely the antithesis of the message she is trying to send. there is nothing wrong with her picture and definitely no reason for her to change the picture on her own myspace page. she is not in the wrong here, they are. the picture's focus is on her caring for her child as God intended, just a closer view than her friend's picture. you could even argue that the close-up picture is the nursing relationship as she sees it XX times a day. both pictures are lovely and each mother should be proud.

JamesMama--I hope this situation is resolved to your satisfaction! Praying for your family as you search for a more enlightened and loving church home!
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Old 11-30-2006, 04:54 PM
 
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Tiffany,

Everyone here will agree with you, including me. But depending on what outcome the OP wants, I am offering suggestions.

Amanda

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Old 11-30-2006, 05:11 PM
 
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Somewhere in our church history, we mixed up "Victorian values" with "Christian values" and the modern church has taken up completely unscriptural stances to retain "Victorian values".

I keep going back to the Israelites, wandering in the wilderness, living in tents, washing in the open, etc. I've camped. I know how difficult it is to maintain "perfect privacy" even temporarily. The idea that no one knew about sex or that the flesh was somehow perfectly covered 24/7 seems ludicrous.

On the other side of the coin, however, I don't think that nudity and nakedness were commonplace, everyday, walking down the street situations (equivalent to today's television viewing).

I just don't think that prudish, Victorian values are Christian. (Though they are very "Churchian".)
Good point.

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Not sure if you need any info. But Ive found these links vary helpful for Christian nursing debates:

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/8148/verses.html
More links at the bottom of this link
Thanks for that link- it's a good one!

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All right, so the ignorance of youth first brought this subject to the forefront. In that case, the "more educated" adults should have informed the youth that breastfeeding is normal and is certainly not indecent. They should have been told that it is not the same as dressing provocatively to sexually excite; it is a form of nourishment for children. Instead, the adults jumped on the "bandwagon of ignorance" along with the youth.
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Old 11-30-2006, 05:40 PM
 
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[QUOTE=JamesMama;6656847]I think the pastors wife was there because she's a licensed pastor as well.

My dh and I are both pastors but he is the only one working and I would not be called to a meeting like that because I am not the pastor of the church. I cannot believe this. As a Christian woman you are held to a higher standard, a higher standard in caring for your child and in setting an example for others. I am so furious. I can't get over the ways in which the church wounds people sometimes. If you have been there since you were five, please remember that the pastor is not the church. If you can't stay, at least realize that it's his idiocy maybe not the entire church's.
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Old 11-30-2006, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I did change my myspace picture, but only because it hurts me to see that picture now, not because I think it is dirty, but because they made it sound so bad and now it breaks my heart, I put one instead that DH took of James and I in bed asleep.

Anyway, the picture that was on my myspace, I took myself I like it because of his little half smile, the caption used to say "Hows this for a Happy Meal?" LOL

Renae wife to J :, Mama to 4.5y/o J-bird and 2y/o A : and E coming in late Dec/Early Jan. My husband had a living donor kidney transplant! :
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:02 PM
 
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I'm sorry. My MIL does this with her youth group at her church. She tells the girls who are mothers that are bf to take it into another room or bedroom for the sake of the comfort of the young men in the group.

I'm not in her Church, and frankly I'm not even Christian so I haven't said anything other than a non-commital "oh" about it. The converation would stray into dangerous territory too quickly.

However, I might mention next time that if I was that girl she told that too I'd leave the group and not come back. Maybe that will give her head a shake.

I'm sorry, I know that this isn't uncommon. I think it is pure nonsense. I applaud you for standing up for yourself.
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Old 11-30-2006, 09:21 PM
 
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hi nae! nice to see you here so sorry about this happening to you. it's beyond words how disgusted i am. pornography? lol. ok. then i'm very proudly the biggest porn star in my town! i nurse dd everywhere. what people must think of me and my dirty, gutter, flesh-baring ways! hang in there. these people will have to answer to the big man in the end. pray for their corrupted souls. a shame, really. you'd think they would want you to nurse as Jesus nursed. oh well. i say let's all go over there and whip em out and nurse out babies. anyone have toddlers? i bet that's a mortal sin. now if i could get someone to watch my cats i'll put on my hooker boots and get my fish-net, scantilly clad bottm over there to show them what pornographic really means. a disgrace.
LOL What state is this in I would LOVE to go to this rally
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Old 12-01-2006, 12:29 PM
 
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I did change my myspace picture, but only because it hurts me to see that picture now, not because I think it is dirty, but because they made it sound so bad and now it breaks my heart, I put one instead that DH took of James and I in bed asleep.

Anyway, the picture that was on my myspace, I took myself I like it because of his little half smile, the caption used to say "Hows this for a Happy Meal?" LOL
I am so sorry. I'm sorry youtook the picture down because it had a negative connotation attached to it in your heart now. More than anything else, THAT is what makes me SOOOO angry for you. Bastards for ruining that special picture for you!

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Old 12-01-2006, 12:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My GMIL emailed the Pastors to get her name taken off the membership list and the Pastors wife came back with a little "We love Josh so much. We are all so hurt by what has come about. We are so grieved." blah blah blah and my GMIL (YEA HER!!) emails her back and says "Whoa! It's not about Josh, it's about what was said to Renae" total Mama Bear...lol. And Pastors Wife comes back again saying it was constructive criticism and my 'strong stance' on my myspace (mainly Lactivisim, Intactivisim stuff) can hurt Josh's chances of being a licensed minister. And then in one of my blogs I said something about how I'm not allowed to be offended by 2 men kissing because they were born like that and she said "That looks like she supports homosexulas kissing in public." WTFever...I give up with these people.

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Old 12-01-2006, 01:48 PM
 
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I am so sorry to hear about all of this! I am not a Christian, but used to be and I never ever encountered anything like this! Nor would I think one would in a Christian church! How sad! Have you followed up with the higher ups yet?
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