My Pastor called today...asked that Josh and I meet him at the church tonight at 7:00. DH is hoping to become a Pastor so we figured it was either related to that or related to this Sunday night young people service he's wanting to start.
Anyway, one of my friends (from the church, also an AP Mama friend of mine) calls and asks if Pastor got ahold of me because he called her to get my #. He'd called her to, asked her and her DH to meet them at the church.
We show up and Pastor, his wife, and 2 of the counsual members are sitting in the basement around a table...with a mini-voice recorder sitting on the table. I start to get nervous. My friend and her DH and their DS show up shortly after us and we open in prayer and pastor starts in saying that some photos that my friend and I have on our Myspace pages of our children nursing, you can't really see that much, and they say that they are PORNOGRAPHY!! And that we are a bad influence on the teens and that once my friend went to nurse and flashed everyone and some teens saw it. And that it reflects badly on the church and blah blah blah. And THEN they say that it reflects badly on the coffee shop my friends parents own and that people have said they will not go to the coffee shop or to our church because of the photos on our Myspace.
OMGOSH! I went off. I told them that those photos were NOT indecent, they were NOT sexual. And anyone that thinks they are sexual have the issue. Not me. How DARE they insuinuate that there is something wrong with me feeding my child. That I have a LEGAL right to breastfeed ANYWHERE
And they spout off on morals and I have to be a Christian infuance and I'm held to a higher standard as a Christian. And people see I'm a christian...blah blah blah.
He even called my friend and I prostitutes. Not even lying.
And of course they went off on the whole "Breastfeeding is great." but cover up bull crap to which I said "Oh, so I should sufficate my son while he eats? Do you cover your head while you eat?" How is it any different? Why did they attack me like this?
I feel so hurt and betrayed and I just can't believe what just happened. My friend got up and let at the beginning, her DH came back and told them that the church was wrong, they should be ashamed of themselves and that they would not be back to that church ever again.
I got up and left shortly after and after I let DH told them that he wanted no part of that church, resigned our posisitions as teachers and I guess the Pastors wife and one of the counsual members started crying, begging Josh to pray over it and blah blah blah. I won't be going back to that church EVER again.
I've never been so angry and hurt in my whole life.
I'm so sorry. What you encountered was truly terrible. One of my favorite verses on breastfeeding (and there are many) is Joel 2:16.
Quote:
Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
GL!
As a side note, if you were informed that the conversation would be taped they probably didn't break any wiretapping laws.
"The pictures in question showed Whitney and I breastfeeding our children." -- should read, "The pictures in question showed Whitney and myself breastfeeding our children."
I think this is outrageous. I actually, if I were you, would include some quotes (as above) about breastfeeding from the Bible, because what the pastor said was actually NOT Biblically accurate - there is great support for breastfeeding in the Bible. I don't know where he thinks he got a quote in the Bible saying breasts were just for husbands (!?) - maybe Song of Solomon? - but he obviously misinterpreted it. The Hebrews (and later Christians) wouldn't have lasted long if they didn't allow mothers to breastfeed their children!
So, I would include those quotes -- not argue things, simply say that you would like to know your church's official stance on breastfeeding. The Catholic Church actually has a great statement from John Paul II on breastfeeding and its importance -- if your church doesn't have something similar, perhaps this could be the impetus for its creation.
I dunno about a nurse in...it'd be pretty great, but it's a small church we might not fit. Plus I have 2 uncles that go there and I don't want to be kicked out of my family...I've already had issues with my family about bf'ing and I don't think they're going to be on my side about this...sad as that is.
I just sent it via email, I'm sure they'll get it. I plan on calling the district office and following up on my letter tomorrow or the next day. I want to make a legal fuss, really I do...but at the same time I don't because I don't want ALL Christians painted in this bad light simply because of one persons ignorance, kwim?
I have a feeling he's lying about all the phone calls he's recieved. I mean, come on? Like the whole town trolls around myspace looking for pictures of boobs? And then says "Hey a picture of a breast! I wonder what church she goes to! Lets call her pastor and tell him how offended we are!" Huh?
I love this church, I've been going there since I was 5 or 6...it's been my home for so long...and now I'm being forced out. Actually I've been contacted by 2 members of the church as has my friend begging us not to make rash decisions and leave the church. But I don't see how I can stay. I mean the PASTOR basically called me a prostitute, said I was immoral and a Jezabel...and they want me to stay and accept communion from him? Accept Christian leadership and guidence? Are they insane? I told them as much too...
Some random thoughts.....I would list specific demands or things you want to see happen versus IMO the too general "that actions be taken to restore my reputation". An example: I request that we receive a formal written apology from X, Y, and Z. or "we request that a public apology/retraction be printed in the church newsletter" or............
I would also demand that said demands occur by X, and Y date. In addition, I would also demand a response to your letter by blah, blah, blah date and add in something like "OR we will be forced to take further action." I would also send it certified mail.
You can remain vague where you want to and let them wonder WTH you are going to do next, while at the same time you also do not want to use any terminology that could be construed as slanderous or threatening. Sometimes it's best to say as little as possible. Say just enough to get your point across. I would seriously re-consider sending out such a detailed letter. Keep a firm grasp on the hand you were dealt. You don't want your hand forced too soon IYKWIM. IMO, what they did was illegal in whole or in part (not just the "discussion" but the whole surfing your myspace page and printing out YOUR personal property in addition). It truly depends on far you want this to go as to the action you take next. The whole thing reeks. I am so sorry.
"The pictures in question showed Whitney and I breastfeeding our children." -- should read, "The pictures in question showed Whitney and myself breastfeeding our children."
Actually, to be grammatically correct, it should read:
"...showed Whitney and me breastfeeding..."
You wouldn't say that "this photo showed myself." Myself is only used when the subject of the sentence is "I", as in "I did it myself" or "I did it by myself" or "I did it to myself".
You use the same pronoun that you'd use if there was only one person being referred to. In other words, if you take Whitney out of the sentence, you wouldn't say "...showed I breastfeeding...". You'd say "....showed me breastfeeding...". Therefor, when you've got 2 people in the sentence, the pronoun used stays the same "...showed Whitney and me breastfeeding our children...".
The overuse of "myself" is one of my peeves. It sounds like the person using it is trying to sound important, by using a bigger word or whatever, but in reality it makes them sound like they don't know English grammar very well.
Other than that, excellent letter. Hope you get a positive response.
I really want to applaud you for having the courage to write that letter. To me that would have been scary and my heart would have been pounding when I clicked "send." This has been your church since you were a child? That hurts even more. Good for you for sticking up for yourself and for other nursing moms.
I read this last night. I still cannot believe it this morning.
I told my dh and he went off. You see, he enjoys pointing out when someone is so steeped in greek thought verses hebrew thought. Biblically, this pastor has NO WHERE to stand. He is projecting his own greek, hedonistic thoughts on you and your friend.
If it's any consolation - you are going to own him when this is over. There is no way that his superiors will let this debacle stand. He should be fired over this and even if he is not he will have lost his 'moral authority' in your church. I hope the members are vocal in your defense. I also think that an investigation into his fascination with pornography may be in order.
Originally Posted by JamesMama
Plus I have 2 uncles that go there and I don't want to be kicked out of my family...I've already had issues with my family about bf'ing and I don't think they're going to be on my side about this...sad as that is.
Any chance that they're the instigators of this BS?
Regardless of how they feel about bf'ing, your family should suppport you when someone calls you a prostitute.
I'd add Joel 2:16 where nursing infants at the breast are called to God's assembly.
Psalm 22:9 (see my siggy)
The Bible also says Hannah took Samuel to the temple to give him to the Lord (to be raised by the priests) when she had weaned him (traditionally between 3 and 4).
I'm so sorry this happened. My pastor told us that we needed to nurse behind this stupid screen thingy if we were going to nurse in the nursery (so dads wouldn't feel awkward picking their kids up and seeing - gasp! - boob in the nursery.) So I just started nursing in the middle of the sanctuary in my seat instead.
Originally Posted by pfamilygal
My pastor told us that we needed to nurse behind this stupid screen thingy if we were going to nurse in the nursery (so dad's wouldn't feel awkward picking their kids up and seeing - gasp! - boob in the nursery.) So I just started nursing in the middle of the sanctuary in my seat instead.
Originally Posted by dallaschildren
Some random thoughts.....I would list specific demands or things you want to see happen versus IMO the too general "that actions be taken to restore my reputation". An example: I request that we receive a formal written apology from X, Y, and Z. or "we request that a public apology/retraction be printed in the church newsletter" or............
I would also demand that said demands occur by X, and Y date. In addition, I would also demand a response to your letter by blah, blah, blah date and add in something like "OR we will be forced to take further action." I would also send it certified mail.
You can remain vague where you want to and let them wonder WTH you are going to do next, while at the same time you also do not want to use any terminology that could be construed as slanderous or threatening. Sometimes it's best to say as little as possible. Say just enough to get your point across. I would seriously re-consider sending out such a detailed letter. Keep a firm grasp on the hand you were dealt. You don't want your hand forced too soon IYKWIM. IMO, what they did was illegal in whole or in part (not just the "discussion" but the whole surfing your myspace page and printing out YOUR personal property in addition). It truly depends on far you want this to go as to the action you take next. The whole thing reeks. I am so sorry.
DC
I 2nd that!
I would only add the current state law on the subject.
Iowa Code § 135.30A, 2002
2000 Ia. ALS 1140; 2000 Ia. Ch. 1140; 2000 Ia. LAWS 1140; 1999 Ia. SF 2302
135.30A Breastfeeding in Public Places
***Notwithstanding any other provision of law to the contrary, a woman may breast-feed the woman's own child in any public place where the woman's presence is otherwise authorized.
If you don't want to leave that church he needs to work to restore your reputation or get out himself.
As far as other people not going to church because of your photos - that's their choice no one is forcing them to do so.
Somewhere in our church history, we mixed up "Victorian values" with "Christian values" and the modern church has taken up completely unscriptural stances to retain "Victorian values".
I keep going back to the Israelites, wandering in the wilderness, living in tents, washing in the open, etc. I've camped. I know how difficult it is to maintain "perfect privacy" even temporarily. The idea that no one knew about sex or that the flesh was somehow perfectly covered 24/7 seems ludicrous.
On the other side of the coin, however, I don't think that nudity and nakedness were commonplace, everyday, walking down the street situations (equivalent to today's television viewing).
I just don't think that prudish, Victorian values are Christian. (Though they are very "Churchian".)
I'm entering this thread late, but just wanted to express how very sorry I am that you were attacked in this way. Maybe I'm reading too much into the pastor's words and response, but it feels like something is really, really wrong with the church. Someone mentioned how liberating it can be to find a church home that welcomes and accepts and loves you; I second that wholeheartedly. I applaud you for bringing this up with the higher-ups, and I hope they respond quickly and in a way that heals your hurt. If they don't--well, you've been responsible in your actions and can leave knowing that.
It just breaks my heart to hear this kind of thing. Siiigh.
I cannot believe that. I've nursed in our church, mostly in the nursery or out in the narthex, for my own comfort, I'm kind of a claude when it comes to keeping covered, and nobody has so much as batted an eyelash at me.
Great letter, and I hope it all gets taken care of.
BTW, hopefully they didn't find my myspace page...there is a pic of me nursing my 13 month old! *gasp!*
What probably happened is that one person called him about the pix (very probably somebody you know, as they would've had to have been searching for you) and then he showed the pix around to people he knew would be offended and encouraged their shared outrage. I guarantee you that he could not provide more than 1 or 2 people who could've called about this.
Good for you for writing the letter. If it were me, I'd take it to the press, but I fully understand your perference not to invite that kind of chaos into your world.
I also think it was a good letter (however, pointing out the law can play a major role...might want to send that as a follow up).
Please tell us how it goes (subbed).
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