And it happened to me. Update on post 96 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 03:52 AM
 
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I'm really sorry you've been put through this.

I just wanted to say that it sounds like a wonderful opportunity to educate the people involved about breastfeeding in general. Especially NIP. Chances are, they just don't have a clue. Approaching it assertively, but gently will probably reap some really great results. I hope it goes well and only good comes from the unfortunate experience.
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#62 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 01:11 PM
 
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why would you want to attend a church that makes you feel bad about nourishing your child.i nurse my little guy in church w/o covering up all the time and no one bats an eye. i feel like i am sitting in my own house and thats how church should be. have you tried looking for another place to worship? maybe meeting with the pastor first to see what his views are on NIP at his church.i'm sorry that you had to go through that with the cookie lady. good luck.:

Lisa wife to Ronne and mom to 4 kids ,Thomas 4/92, Amanda 9/99, Christopher 8/06 & Nathaniel 5/08.
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#63 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 01:52 PM
 
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In the LDS faith which ward you attend is determined by where you live. It is difficult to move your membership to a different ward. Each ward is unique with it's own strengths and weaknesses.
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#64 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 02:22 PM
 
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In the LDS faith which ward you attend is determined by where you live. It is difficult to move your membership to a different ward. Each ward is unique with it's own strengths and weaknesses.
adding to this that one ward does not speak for the entire church, either.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#65 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 02:23 PM
 
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In the LDS faith which ward you attend is determined by where you live. It is difficult to move your membership to a different ward. Each ward is unique with it's own strengths and weaknesses.
so it's actually only a 'symptom of the disease' as it were? Members facing such outrageous condemnation are not allowed to move to a more family friendly, more truly Christian congregation without moving from their home? or is there an appeal process by which one could change wards without uprooting their family in this or a worse case?:
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#66 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 02:26 PM
 
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That mama was me.

My gosh...I'm so sorry this happened to you. I totally relate to and understand your anger and hurt. I hope that you are able to get some satisfaction from higher ups. I wasn't able to...I hope that you are.

Renae wife to J :, Mama to 4.5y/o J-bird and 2y/o A : and E coming in late Dec/Early Jan. My husband had a living donor kidney transplant! :
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#67 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 02:31 PM
 
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In the LDS faith which ward you attend is determined by where you live. It is difficult to move your membership to a different ward. Each ward is unique with it's own strengths and weaknesses.
so it's actually only a 'symptom of the disease' as it were? Members facing such outrageous condemnation are not allowed to move to a more family friendly, more truly Christian congregation without moving from their home? or is there an appeal process by which one could change wards without uprooting their family in this or a worse case?:
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#68 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 02:44 PM
 
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so it's actually only a 'symptom of the disease' as it were? Members facing such outrageous condemnation are not allowed to move to a more family friendly, more truly Christian congregation without moving from their home? or is there an appeal process by which one could change wards without uprooting their family in this or a worse case?:
they are very much allowed to go to a different ward. we had this happen with a family who split up due to some issues i won't discuss here but they lived in the same ward. they took it to the Stake President and have been in the neighboring ward ever since, years now. it's worked the way it is for orginization reasons not to be some over powering condemning force. we have a certain number of members in my area that are divded up by area and placed in a certain time slot. if we had everyone going to one ward and none going to another it would be a mess due to the ammount of members we have in the area as a whole and the size of the buildings.

Maggie, blissfully married mama of 5 little ladies on my own little path. homeschool.gif gd.gifRainbow.gif
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#69 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 02:58 PM
 
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okay. that sounds alot better than the post I quoted... thanks for clearing that up.
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#70 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 03:09 PM
 
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Maybe you can use this:

"The scriptures often refer respectfully but plainly to the body and its parts. There is no embarrassment and often there is sacred symbolism. It is the world that makes the divinely created body an object of carnal lust. For example, it makes the female breasts primarily into sexual enticements, while the truth is that they were intended to nourish and comfort children." (A Parent's Guide, 37).

Mama to my little social butterfly 6/13/09

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#71 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 03:34 PM
 
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http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOr...____&hideNav=1

Quote:

Mother’s Milk Is Usually Best for Small Babies

Our Heavenly Father made the mother’s body so it could produce milk. This milk is made especially for human babies to drink. It is better for babies than milk from animals. The first fluid that comes from the mother’s breasts after a new baby is born is also important.
And that is straight off LDS.org The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A try showing that to your bishop

* * * 4 * * * 8 * * * 12 * * * 16 * * * 20 * * * 24 * * * 28 * * * 32 * * * 36 * * rainbow1284.gif 40 * * *

 

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#72 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 10:15 PM
 
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Hmph, I'm not even a church goer and I'm mad for you.

http://www.darkfiber.com/pz/grafix/hand7-a.jpg

Picture of Mary nursing Jesus.
Mary! Put a blanket over that holy boob!
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#73 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 11:27 PM
 
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Wow, what a horrible disappointment from your church. I hope that you all can settle this and move on. Good for you for not agreeing to go hide out in the bathroom to feed your babes!
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#74 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 11:32 PM
 
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Feel free to use the quote in my siggy

I hope all goes well on Sunday and I can't wait to hear the results.
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#75 of 192 Old 02-21-2007, 11:55 PM
 
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Just letting you know you have one more supportive person. I know plently of LDS mamas who nurse (and this was before I ever came to mothering). You aren't alone in that as you know.
I like the link above. Hard to argue with president.
But really, it sounds like you handled the interaction with the cookie lady quite well and that you are on a good track with this.

~laura
and planning to eat it again
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#76 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 12:29 AM
 
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Loved your new blog post. You're a strong momma.

Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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#77 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 01:00 AM
 
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I want to know what he thinks about the young men looking lustfully on those pictures of Mary. Surely that's a sin?
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#78 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 10:14 AM
 
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Still

Ever since goats were domesticated there has always been another option.
The Prophet Mohammed was wet-nursed by at least four women other than his mother. It is a Koranic requirement that Muslim women breastfeed their children for a period of 2 years and is considered one of the holiest acts of motherhood. Women who are unable to breastfeed are required to enlist a wet-nurse for the infant, with the wet-nurse receiving proper compensation for her work, payable by the father of the infant. (Holy Koran, 2:233)

PM me for more info on breastfeeding and Islam.
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#79 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 12:26 PM
 
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:
PMing you to keep this thread on-topic. Suffice it to say, the exact post you quoted had nothing to do with the Prophet Mohammed and everything to do with the fact that there were options for non-breastfeeding when it was stated that there were none.

Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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#80 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 12:44 PM
 
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PMing you to keep this thread on-topic. Suffice it to say, the exact post you quoted had nothing to do with the Prophet Mohammed and everything to do with the fact that there were options for non-breastfeeding when it was stated that there were none.
I believe that in those days, children fed from goat milk or other non-human-milk substitutes existed, but were far less likely to survive infancy and early childhood than breastfed children.

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#81 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 01:28 PM
 
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Without knowing the people but having experienced gossipy behaviour like that before, I can only imagine that the reason why the bishop sent the woman to discuss it with you is becuase he probably could care less, but since it was bothering her, he figured he'd let the two of you work it out. If she said that ten other women were upset, it was probably only really 5. Those five were probably egged on by her instigation. And finally, and most importantly, the 200 members that support your bf'ing didn't need to say anything to anyone because, well, they didn't neet to!
I betcha you've got a lot more support than you could imagine, but even if for some reason you don't, you certainly have us!!!
I always find it difficult to be witty, calm, and educating when I'm put on the spot. I hope you are able to really plan out how you want to handle it so you can feel as if you've enriched and educated those around you. That's what motherhood is all about!
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#82 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 03:58 PM
 
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Someone needs to have a long talk with those young men(and probably a few married ones)about controlling lustful thoughts!! It's the responsibility of parents and the church to teach children how to live in the world.
Like they won't see much worse walking down the street in the summer!
Atleast with you nursing they are seeing breasts in the context in which GOD intended they be used!!!

Mom of 4 aspiring midwife "Friend"ly seeker
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#83 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 08:56 PM
 
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I'm so sorry this is happening to you. I BF my two year old openly in church as do several other women (their own kiddos, not mine ), and no one has said a word. In Utah it would be against the law, frankly, for the Church to tell us we couldn't. I think that you should wait until your meeting with the Bishop before assuming he sent the RS president. And if he did send her, I would ask him if he is "asking" you to stop niping, or if he is "telling" you. If he is asking, tell him you appreciate his concern, but you will have to decline. If he is telling you to stop, take your grievance up the chain of command. A friend of mine was in a similar situation and ended up writing the First Presidency who responded that how and if a woman nursed was between she and her husband. Additionally, they had a member of the Seventy come to give a fireside (meeting) and had a Q&A afterwards. She asked him what he thought of BFing in Sacrament Meeting, and he said that his wife had five kids and she nursed them all in Sacrament Meeting.

I will try to find the quote in church materials that says that Bfing is not lewd or indecent. I go off to search...

Hey, where in Idaho are you? I'll be there this next weekend.

, , , and
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#84 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 11:49 PM
 
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I believe that in those days, children fed from goat milk or other non-human-milk substitutes existed, but were far less likely to survive infancy and early childhood than breastfed children.
How would they have drank the animal milk? Bottles didn't exist...small infants wouldn't have been able to drink from a cup...surely finger feeding wouldn't be enough? Or maybe it would. I'm not sure, but it's definitely interesting.

To the OP: Although I'm completely outraged that this happened to you, I was not surprised reading it. I was raised in a Southern Baptist church before I left that path to create one of my own. Infants were not only mostly formula fed, they were not even allowed in church during the sermon! The mothers would get stares of death if their infants even cooed or giggled. :

You're in my thoughts and prayers, and I'll be thinking of you this Sunday.
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#85 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 11:52 PM
 
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How would they have drank the animal milk? Bottles didn't exist...small infants wouldn't have been able to drink from a cup...surely finger feeding wouldn't be enough? Or maybe it would. I'm not sure, but it's definitely interesting.
Here is one link.
(Warning #1: contains a picture an ancient mummy of an infant.
Warning #2: to new moms, the feeding advice here at this website is not necessarily accurate!)
http://www.babybottle-museum.co.uk/t...%20feeders.htm

Elsewhere on that website one article says
"Evidence shows us that thousands of years ago many babies were artificially fed from a variety of bottles, feeding cups and other utensils, often with disastrous consequences."

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#86 of 192 Old 02-22-2007, 11:58 PM
 
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Here is one link.
(Warning #1: contains a picture an ancient mummy of an infant.
Warning #2: to new moms, the feeding advice here at this website is not necessarily accurate!)
http://www.babybottle-museum.co.uk/t...%20feeders.htm

Elsewhere on that website one article says
"Evidence shows us that thousands of years ago many babies were artificially fed from a variety of bottles, feeding cups and other utensils, often with disastrous consequences."
That's very interesting! Thanks for the link!
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#87 of 192 Old 02-23-2007, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok - here is my agenda for the meeting tonight (bumped up because he will be out of town on Sunday).

-Sketch of the conversation between the "cookie lady" and me. Stress that my nursing was called pornography, that it is absolutely not and that this problem is not mine, but those that are taking issue with my nursing.
-Ask him if he is in agreement with her.
-Offer these three options:
*use this as opportunity to educate him and ward with correct information on breastfeeding
*move our membership to a different ward (only if the ward we are currently in can't seem to get their collective heads out of their a$$!)
*set up a meeting with the stake president (one higher up than the bishop) to resolve this issue.

Sound good? I have lots of research and info (thanks to everyone here : ) which I will gladly pull out if he opts for the first option.

Mamma to 3! nurslings Emma (4) Daniel (3) and our new baby Beth! 10/10/09
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#88 of 192 Old 02-23-2007, 06:32 PM
 
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I'm not a pro lactivist, but I think that sounds good. It looks like you're well prepared, I hope this guy isn't as anti-nip as he sounds, and that everything goes well tonight!

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#89 of 192 Old 02-23-2007, 06:39 PM
 
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Sounds good to me! Hope the Bishop is on your side!

Mama of three.
 
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#90 of 192 Old 02-23-2007, 06:44 PM
 
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Ok - here is my agenda for the meeting tonight (bumped up because he will be out of town on Sunday).

-Sketch of the conversation between the "cookie lady" and me. Stress that my nursing was called pornography, that it is absolutely not and that this problem is not mine, but those that are taking issue with my nursing.
-Ask him if he is in agreement with her.
-Offer these three options:
*use this as opportunity to educate him and ward with correct information on breastfeeding
*move our membership to a different ward (only if the ward we are currently in can't seem to get their collective heads out of their a$$!)
*set up a meeting with the stake president (one higher up than the bishop) to resolve this issue.

Sound good? I have lots of research and info (thanks to everyone here : ) which I will gladly pull out if he opts for the first option.
OK, this is how DH reacted when I told him. I think it might be useful for you.

"The bishop got complaints and went through the RS to Tuansprincess? What he should have done is said to the women complaining "I hear your concerns" - and then showed up in RS the next Sunday talking about how bfeeding is normal, not dirty, and the women there need to support each other and teach their children correct ideas about the human body. And then he should have set up a youth fireside about the human body/sexuality/moreality and had each of the PARENTS of the youth teach a different section. If this RS that came to you really is so pro-bfeeding, she should be the one to handle the bfeeding section."

So there's one Mormon DH's view on how it optimally should have been handled.

I think you should first ask the bishop if he sent the RS pres to your house to discuss complaints he'd received about your bfeeding. If not, tell him he needs to know that that was what you were told.

If so, tell him...well, you know. But seriously, as your shepherd, he seriously should have come straight to you. Just being uncomfortable is no reason to humiliate you in that way.

If he backs down and apologizes but tries to leave it at that, you may be in for a rough ride in the church. He really should have addressed some underlying issues with the RS right after this happened: gossiping and bfeeding being ok. The fact that he told these women he'd take care of it and that did not include any addressing of THEIR issues is a serious problem - and is one of the things so frustrating about Mormon 'clergy' not having any training. He's probably a businessman who really had no idea and was simply embarrassed.

If I were you I'd suggest a youth informational fireside - and get his agreement that your RS president, being so pro-bfeeding will help. She needs to back you up in public, not privately sympathizing with you with a plate of cookies while asking you to hide your mothering. Pshaw.

I'd save asking to move out of the ward until the end, if it becomes obvious he's not willing to help. That's harder than it seems.

I like the idea of going up the ladder if he's not helpful - you should have no problem getting satisfaction not too far up.

Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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