And it happened to me. Update on post 96 - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 05:24 PM
 
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Peggy's editorial in the most recent Mothering would a be a GREAT thing to copy and give out to all the members of your church. If you don't have it, I will send you mine. It has GREAT statistics (like 95% of Americans, in recent studies, are found to be okay with nursing in public) and lots of health benifits and such. It explaines the need for people to start actually supporting nursing, in a way your church does not seem to be.

PM me if you want the article.

Megan Davidson, Labor & Postpartum Doula, Breastfeeding Counselor, Anthropologist, Mom to August (9) and Clay (4), Partner to Shawn.

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#122 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 05:56 PM
 
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Maria, I'm sorry it wasn't a more positive meeting. I am proud of you for standing up for what you believe in. I know there are knowledgable people on this thread that know the inner workings of your church so I'm not going to get into any of that. You are not doing anything wrong. You are actually doing it all just right.

Niamh had some great things to say. She is so wise. But you know that, I'm sure.
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#123 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 07:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Brisen View Post
Just to clarify -- I wasn't encouraging her to quit church, just to let them know that this is the kind of treatment that drives people away.
Oh, I know. I even meant to type in a disclaimer there that I knew you weren't encouraging that and I forgot.

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Originally Posted by keljo05 View Post
For all you know the bishop is telling you this to make you feel you won't get anywhere by going over his head. I'd prefer to have it said to me by the SPres before I believe it.
And the way the church works, if the SPres did say it, she can still go over HIM. I truly believe that she'd get satisfaction if she only went up a few more levels.

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Originally Posted by alisaterry View Post
Covering up doesn't make sense, for two reasons. One, if he doesn't want people to know you are breastfeeding, a blanket is usually more obvious, so that doesn't work.
Exactly. I only nursed with a blanket covering me once. DH asked me not to anymore. Said it made it so much more obvious.

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Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
I am so, so sorry you are going through this. I think what angers me most of all is that your bishop is using his position of power to attempt to bully you into doing what he wants. What is right or just doesn't seem to matter; he just seems more interested in turning it into an issue where you must bend to his authority.
Yes. This is disturbing.

TP, you never said how your dh felt about any of this. How did he feel before/during/after the meeting?

Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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#124 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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TP, you never said how your dh felt about any of this. How did he feel before/during/after the meeting?
He's so quiet and soft spoken! The night it happened I came to bed crying. He pulled me to him and said "you know that you have not done anything wrong, right?"

During the meeting the bish asked just why I was refusing to cover myself with a blanket and Tuan jumped right in and said that it was perpetuating the idea that nursing is something to hide or be ashamed of.

Now, I think that he is very upset, but really trying to hold back so that I don't pick up on his anger and get even more upset! He is most angry at the way that this is all affecting me.

He has always let me know that he is behind me 100%. Golly I : him!

Mamma to 3! nurslings Emma (4) Daniel (3) and our new baby Beth! 10/10/09
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#125 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 07:17 PM
 
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What a wonderful DH!
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#126 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 07:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by tuansprincess View Post
He's so quiet and soft spoken! The night it happened I came to bed crying. He pulled me to him and said "you know that you have not done anything wrong, right?"

During the meeting the bish asked just why I was refusing to cover myself with a blanket and Tuan jumped right in and said that it was perpetuating the idea that nursing is something to hide or be ashamed of.

Now, I think that he is very upset, but really trying to hold back so that I don't pick up on his anger and get even more upset! He is most angry at the way that this is all affecting me.

He has always let me know that he is behind me 100%. Golly I : him!
You picked well, hon.

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#127 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 08:02 PM
 
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I'm so so sorry this is happening. You've definitely gotten some great advice! I'm not trying to stir the pot, and I don't know what the composition of your church is, but is there any chance that this could in some part be racially motivated? The ministers/pastors/church leaders in many parts of the US that I've come across have seemed set in their ways, and quite quick to judge anyone from a new/different situation. I really hope that's not the case, but I thought I'd throw it out there ... Good luck, stay strong!
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#128 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 08:17 PM
 
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IMO Idaho is very easy to breastfeed in. I have breastfed all over Idaho in 7 years and never had a problem. On top of that I know many breast feeders and I have never heard of any problems.

Maybe Southern Idaho is pickier but middle to northern Idaho is very laid back easy going. Idahoans dont like being told what to do.

Anyway those young men should stop staring while you breastfed.

I have to wonder that they must not have been breastfed.
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#129 of 192 Old 02-24-2007, 08:17 PM
 
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All I can say to you TP is just remember that it is the gospel that is true and not the members.

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

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#130 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 12:46 AM
 
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I am very sorry that this happened some places this is so normal to nIp that it is not a problem but others there is just not enough exposure. Remember you bishop is not out to get you are make you do something that is unnecessary he is trying to do his best while having lots of people give him different advice and make everyone happy it is a very hard position. you should pray about what a good solution would be, maybe a compromise for both of you. maybe you could still nurse anywhere without a blanket but make sure you have something to help you stay more covered for the initial latch like when the exposure episode happened. I realized the baby is still pretty little and it takes me at least til they are 6 months or so before they latch realy quick without me having to play around and taking a few seconds to latch them. I know it will actually be more obvious what you are doing but that maybe a way to keep you from felling like you have to leave or unwelcome and make sure nothing gets flashed so the bishop can appease the others.
We are a church of compromise and trying to work with eachother even though there are such different personalities. Keep trying to work with the bishop and even stake president if you need too. I know they are praying about the best way to handle this for you and those that are having a problem with it.
Just know you are not alone there are many of us trying to nurse and get the understanding that it is something good, positive, easy(hopefully), beautiful, and the young women and men and other women of the ward fell is normal and nothing to be ashamed of. And not that by putting a blanket over a babies head magicly makes it go to sleep this is what I thought the first time I saw my SIL do that to nurse her baby she did not evan tell me he was nursing when I said that and so I thought that is just a way to get your kids to sleep. Evan though I knew nursing was ok and that she nursed him but she did not take the time to educate me and that was sad. Hopefully someday the US will be like other countries where babies nurse anywhere and no one blinks an eye.
Just keep an open line between you, your DH, Bishop, and especially the Lord and everything will work out all right.

SAHM to wonderful hubby of 13 yrs and 3 boys age 10,7,and 4 and our new little girl 5mo ::::
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#131 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 01:07 AM
 
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Oh, I am SO NIP at sacrament meeting.... If you lived in Mallad, I'd be there with you!!!

On to the Porn issue. Simply put, I have LITTLE sympathy for members caught in the porn trap. They were taught better and knew better but chose to risk an addiction. They have the problem, not you and your nurslings. Anyone who thinks that a breast in the act of nursing is sexy is gross. If they are SO sensitive to breasts, they should stay home.

I'm just infuriated. I'm so very disappointed that your bishop is sheltering a deviant than a innocent baby needing a drink.

So they want you to use a cover in the chapel.... I'd agree on the following condition....
EVERYONE no matter the age gets covered with a blanket while eating. This included FF babies, toddlers eating cheerios, me eating my mentos, dads chewing gum. EVERYONE eating or drinking must be covered, then and only then would I use a cover over my baby. That would make this fair. I would exempt the passing of the sacrament from this as it is sacred and would be a logistical nightmare, but there is nothing sacred about crackers and cereal. Since that will NEVER happen.... Oh, and the drinking fountains need curtains around them like the voting booths. Sometimes when people bend to use them you see a little bit of thigh or the shirt raises up and shows their back.


You are not wrong.... I bet the porn guy used that as an EXCUSE to go look up porn and he needed SOMETHING to blame it on so he would not have to be accountable for his actions. A nursing breast is NOT porn.

This is cultural. My brother said in Brazil the women in the choir nurse, and not discretely either. They just whip it out he said.
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#132 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 03:18 AM
 
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This is cultural. My brother said in Brazil the women in the choir nurse, and not discretely either. They just whip it out he said.
Oh yeah they do Crazy ... but as a missionary, I thought nothing of it. These weren't centerfolds flashing their breasts they were Mamas feeding their kiddos. Didn't bother me at all, and I never saw it in a sexual context. Nothing sexual about it, quite tender, as a matter of fact. Though, I did have missionary companions that had problems with it.

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

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#133 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 03:23 AM
 
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All i have to say is so sad that they are blaming you for the man's issue with porn ,, I am so sorry momma ! : I agree with what has been previously posted about meeting with stake pres etc .. grrr i wish i was closer to you i would so be their NIP with you no cover either .. I do not cover up though i am discreet .. I hope you know that I support you and hope that it gets better .. Nurse on sister .. I will be nursing with you in spirit
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#134 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 04:11 AM
 
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I'm voting for a topless/braless nurse in at your church next Sunday!

I understand the dude's concerns, but...OMG, get over it.

Keep on as you have been. If it comes to it, I'm sure there's a NIP friendly lawyer who would be glad to contact them in your behalf. :

Jenn
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#135 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 04:16 AM
 
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If there is a someone in the congregation who has abused children and is seeking recovery, should you cover all of the children so as not to tempt him???

Kristina in Kitsap County, WA
Doula, Student Midwife, Mama, Wife & More
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#136 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 05:15 AM
 
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If there is a someone in the congregation who has abused children and is seeking recovery, should you cover all of the children so as not to tempt him???
My thoughts exactly. Said this to DW just the other day regarding this very thread.

"A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister

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#137 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 05:17 AM
 
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Maybe we should just cover him..... Seriously if there is a guy who is so mixed up that a nursing breast will send him running for the porn, he needs to go to rehab. He needs to not be around society for a while.
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#138 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 05:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by intorainbowz View Post
Maybe we should just cover him..... Seriously if there is a guy who is so mixed up that a nursing breast will send him running for the porn, he needs to go to rehab. He needs to not be around society for a while.
I agree with this.

TP

Jami (25) Roland (27) & Caleb (5), Jacob (3.5) , Kaitlyn (2)
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#139 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 09:24 AM
 
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Yes, I certainly think the gentleman with a porn problem is the one who needs to be admonished about his reaction to a nursing baby.

When I catch people staring, I wink.

I will be praying for you at church today, mama! I'd be boldly nursing at church today myself except DS is vomiting and has diarrhea so I will likely stay home.

I've actually been impressed with the acceptance of public nursing in Provo, even though I almost never see it. I keep waiting for someone to say something so I can flip them off (I'm a naughty Mormon) but I always get smiles and support. The only negative reaction I ever noticed was once when I was nursing DS while browsing through a pattern catalog at Joann's. An older lady came toward me, noticed what I was doing, grimmaced, and turned around. I was so proud!

But I digress. Sending you a couple of these :2bfbabe: : : : : : :
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#140 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 04:30 PM
 
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TP,
I too am outraged to hear how your meeting with the Bishop went. I would also be looking to move up the chain until you are satisfied. This is completely wrong for them to make YOU the issue.

Just out of curiosity, I asked my DH about this. He has had struggles with porn in the past. He hasn't had a real addiction, but he has had a hard time for most of his life knowing how to act when he sees a bit of flesh, and how to keep his thoughts under control. He too served a mission in South America, and did have a hard time when the young attractive ward members would openly nurse, even though he saw his mom nursing all the time. After discussing your situation fully, he admitted that yes, seeing a bit of breast while a mom is nursing could start a chain reaction of thoughts. It wouldn't make him go look for porn, but it could start that chain reaction. HOWEVER (before I get a bunch of flaming posts about how horrible he is! ), he is ADAMANT that it would be HIS problem and not yours. Never in his wildest dreams would he ask you to stop, or ask someone else to ask you to stop. He fully believes and understands that breasts are for nourishing babies, and believes you have every right to nurse in whatever way is best for your baby. He is a huge supporter of NIP. He said over and over, "My issue is MY problem, not the nursing mom's problem. She is doing nothing wrong. I am responsible for my own thoughts, not her." He has over the years learned how to control those thoughts in himself, and how to focus on something else.

So, yes, a bit of flesh might make it difficult for someone sincerely attempting to recover from that addiction to keep his (or even her) thoughts on track, but this is something they NEED to learn how to do in order to be successful anyway. He took the smoking comparison and said, "It isn't like she's inviting him to join her! It's like a smoker who's on his way to work and passes a few people smoking on the way. They aren't asking him to join, they're just doing their own thing. But he needs to learn how to keep himself from being tempted by the sight."

So, in reality, you're providing an opportunity for his spiritual growth!

Anyway, we both support you and hope that you can find peace and resolution.
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#141 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 04:37 PM
 
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Great post, Nemmer.

TP, I've been thinking of you all day. I hope you were able to go to church and nurse. If you did, don't think any of us underestimate how much courage that took.


Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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#142 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 04:57 PM
 
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TP,
I had this issue about a year ago in our branch. I was not nursing at the time but two other woman were and I was in the RS presidency.

It was a similar situation but the woman that were nursing were doing it with a blanket and someone complained and said that he knew what they were doing under the blanket. I did research found the article that has been posted and took it to the branch president and stake president (it was addressed on a stake level). I also informed them that by asking a mother to cover up or move they were violating the law (we live in florida). They came back and said a woman could nurse when she wants but please be modest but said that modesty was what we felt was modest.

I also think you need to go higher up. I could say more but so many others have already said what I was thinking.
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#143 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 05:27 PM
 
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When I told my dh about all that's been going on, his response was, "Are they next going to tell her she can't nurse in Relief Society (the women's meeting) because there might be someone there who is a lesbian?"

Of course, he was being completely toungue in cheek about the whole thing, but it really helped bring the ridiculousness of the whole issue to light. Why should a nursing mom be responsible for someone elses' reaction to it? Are all the women in the ward being lectured about wearing modest clothing?

I'm thinking about you TP, and I hope everything went well today.

Violin teaching, doula-ing Mom to Abby, (8) Ashlynn, (6) : and Max (11/13/08) Diagnosed with Metopic Craniosynostosis. First surgery 5/1/09, Second surgery March 2010.
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#144 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 06:31 PM
 
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Oh I'm so sorry you are going through this. I totally agree with the moms above that say to flip it around on him, start questioning the other men and the young boys of the congregation. Be brave, be strong you can do this! Ask him why is doing exactly what God intended for us as mother to be doing, frowned upon and looked at as a dirty thing? It doesn't make sense to me. : Keep us updated, I'd really like to know what happened. Hugs to you and your DH.

Atara wife to Joseph mom to Kaleb and Jacob : Caeden Ashlyn : and our angel baby ,:,
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#145 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 06:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by intorainbowz View Post
On to the Porn issue. Simply put, I have LITTLE sympathy for members caught in the porn trap. They were taught better and knew better but chose to risk an addiction.
This is completely off topic, but I have known converts to the church who were taught or who believed before that porn was fine, and really struggled to break the addiction when they joined the church. Not that it excuses laying the blame on TP, I'm just giving another perspective on this. Not everyone is a lifetime member.

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#146 of 192 Old 02-25-2007, 06:55 PM
 
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I was referring to life time members, sorry for the confusion.

I need to add... I feel for those trapped in the grip of this. I just don't want women shamed because a man made choices. I don't want to worry if someone at church is looking at me like that or my baby. They made choices.

I've read her post a couple of times... I keep seeing more worry from her bishop for the person with the porn problem than a mother and baby. He seemed almost unconcerned that she might leave but was very concerned about the porn person.
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#147 of 192 Old 02-26-2007, 12:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Stacymom View Post
When I told my dh about all that's been going on, his response was, "Are they next going to tell her she can't nurse in Relief Society (the women's meeting) because there might be someone there who is a lesbian?"
There is a lot of truth to what your DH said. You can be gay or lesbian and still be an active member, you just can't be practising gay or lesbianism (ok I made that up). The church views it as something that has to be overcome. Some view it as an addiction, one may think about it all day every day, but they have to just deal with it and live a straight life.

I want to hear an update on how your church day went today, I have been following your story.

As an inactive LDS I am saddened that something such as NIP without a blanket would be looked down upon. I did notice when I went to an LDS baby shower how the woman who were nursing babies were using a blanket, but didn't think it was that big of a deal. Someone did a make a comment like "Take a picture of Gena NOW! HAHA" while I was nursing, with no blanket, my then 5 month old. I just smiled and ignored it.
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#148 of 192 Old 02-26-2007, 02:00 AM
 
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Someone else has deviant behavior and YOU have to be made to feel ashamed??? OH right....you're the filthy woman tempting a man. Oh the burden we bear trying to keep these helpless men pure. It's too bad that they have no controll over their wicked ways - and it's entirely up to us to keep them good and pure.

Alright alright.....obviously I have issues with the church and patriarchy in general and I realize that's not the real issue here. I'll try to stick to the point.
As I read beyond this post, I see that this is Exactly the problem. One male member of the ward has a problem and Tuansprincess is being held responsible for making things more difficult for him.

What about his own responsibility to keep his head out of his pants?

It also occurs to me that sitting in either the very front or the very back would solve the problem, as long as dude with problem isn't in the same row. If you're in front, all the rest the congregation can see is your back. If you sit in the back, no one sees you at all, IF they are facing front and paying attention to the service. If that is not the case, why?

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#149 of 192 Old 02-26-2007, 02:51 AM
 
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I was thinking the same thing as Meiri. Why not compromise on location in the chapel with the bishop? Most LDS chapels are set up with doors on either side and three "columns" of benches. Perhaps she can say that her family will only sit on the right side of the chapel and the person(s) with the problem only sit on the left side. That way it will keep the offended party away from the breastfeeding family with minimal chances of him seeing the breastfeeding act. Also it would protect the privacy of the person who is offended so the bishop won't have to say "make sure you're not seated near Brother X."

Mama to DD (5) DD (3) and DS (2 months)
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#150 of 192 Old 02-26-2007, 03:46 AM
 
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I was thinking the same thing as Meiri. Why not compromise on location in the chapel with the bishop?
Not sure why she should have to compromise at all. She is doing nothing wrong. She is ALREADY sitting in the back. The problem is, if she DOES compromise, she could very well begin to feel like she GAVE IN.

If she can compromise without that feeling, more power to her, go ahead.

Homesteading, unschooling mama of three.
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