The outcome of the Ronald McDonald House breastfeeding meeting. - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 04:40 PM
 
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Quick and very rudimentary discussion re why illionois law could be implicated possibly (but probably not). My understanding is that the two parties to this case are from different states (but I can't remember where Jessica is from originally, and RMH is in Texas). Then, there could be an issue as to which state RMH is domiciled in for the purposes of this case - is it in Illinois or Texas? A corporation is treated as a citizen of the state in which it is incorporated and the state in which its principal place of business is located (is the principal place of business in Texas in this case? or Illinois? or possibly even the state Jessica is from? Is Jessica from Illinois or some other state?), A partnership or limited liability company is considered to have the citizenship of all of its constituent partners/members. At any rate, because it appears that the two parties are from different states the case would be probably be diverse, which is a term used in civil procedure to refer to the situation in which a United States district court (federal) has subject matter jurisdiction to hear the case. Because a federal court would be hearing a case where the plaintiff is from one state and the defendant is from another state, there may be a question as to which law should be applied to the case. Particularly b/c we have a question of 'from where is the discriminating policy coming?' Texas? Or the headquarters in Illinois? Anyway, thses are just some issues re that buzzing around in my head. THis isn't meant to be any in depth proper analysis at all just some questiosn and issues... but my gut feeling is that it is probably Tx law controlling.
Perhaps - but even IF Illinois law rules the RMH policies I just looked up the Illinios legislation on the matter and according to the La Leche League it is as follows:

Section 10. Breastfeeding Location. A mother may breastfeed her baby in any location, public or private, where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether the nipple of the mother's breast is uncovered during or incidental to the breastfeeding; however, a mother considering whether to breastfeed her baby in a place of worship shall comport her behavior with the norms appropriatein that place of worship.

So unless the RMH holds church services in the communal area IT IS ILLEGAL TO ASK THEM TO LEAVE!
Angela <><
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#122 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 04:42 PM
 
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Even the electricity the woman used to look up the state law on her laptop is paid for by donations!
And donations were used to pay the lawyers to fight a mother feeding her child that just had brain surgery; what a waste of money this is.

"It should be a rule in all prophylactic work that no harm should ever be unnecessarily inflicted on a healthy person (Sir Graham Wilson, The Hazards of Immunization, 1967)."
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#123 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 04:46 PM
 
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Angela,
I just threw it in for good measure and just in case....
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#124 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 04:48 PM
 
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Thanks to those that posted the info for the State Attorney General. I left messages at RMH of Houston, at corporate headquarters, and with the TX dept of health yesterday. Today I emailed a letter to the SAG requesting his assist this family, clarify the law, and protect mothers and their children at the most primitive level.

I cannot believe they won't just admit they were wrong and adopt a BFing friendly stance officially and make it nationwide. Really. It would be far easier. I have absolutely no sympathy that we're causing them to devote all of this time and resources to the cause.
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#125 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 04:48 PM
 
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The way I see it... the RMH is wasting donation dollars by not changing their tune, apologizing to this family and becoming breast feeding friendly.

Just because RMH is a 501c3 does not get them a pass to ignore the law.

Just because the family is accepting help from the RMH does not mean they must be walked on and have their rights trampled.

TO TPTB at the Houston RMH .... YOU HAVE THE POWER TO END THIS RIGHT NOW.
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#126 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 04:54 PM
 
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Angela,
I just threw it in for good measure and just in case....
No - it was a good point becuase it IS a national company and incorporated there might have been some weird law twist. It was a good point.

HOWEVER - the policy the employee stated was not a nation-wide, company-wide policy AND even if they were abiding by the Illinois state law they were STILL in violation.

So either way they cut it they are illegally discrimnating against a sick baby and his loving mother. Not great PR for a donation-run organization.

Angela
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#127 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 04:57 PM
 
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I hope this may help a little since there are so many open threads


April 13th
Ronald McDonald House asks our family to leave for breastfeeding! http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=654648

April 16 afternoon
Update in Ronald McDonald House Breastfeeding Issue :
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656064

*** THIS IS THE THREAD YOU ARE VIEWING NOW***
April 16 evening
The outcome of the Ronald McDonald House breastfeeding meeting. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656346

April 17
Ronald McDonald House - *INFORMATION ONLY* thread - get it here
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656675

April 18
For the ease of all, the new place with our updates in the RMH breastfeeding issue
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=657215

Other Support Threads
Suggestion for the "Ronald McDonald House" thread http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=655490

April 16
It's go time! Good luck bluegreenturtle!! http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656207

April 17
List of blogs talking about RMH http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656153

April 17
Please take time to call and email the Attorney General of TX
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656896

and a few other short threads that were started while the other threads were active and many spinoffs to related topics!

Jessica

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#128 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:02 PM
 
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Ok, think I fixed the broken link.

I guess this is the 'current' thread??

Jessica

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#129 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:06 PM
 
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Summary, links, and information (who to call/where to email/mail, etc) are posted here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656675
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#130 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:11 PM
 
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Oh, and I just called TX DHSH and the Attorney General's office...I too am very unsatisfied with the Attorney General 'thing'...they took a message that "they will be sure to pass on to his administration"..gag...I said: His administration or HIM? She said she couldn't answer that for sure. I asked if he'd already been made aware of the situation..she couldn't answer that for sure either. I asked if she knew if he was going to address the issue. She couldn't answer that. *sigh* I'll just have to email him directly, but I'm sure he doesn't actually read his own email either...Guess we really need to ring his phone off the hook too!! Ladies?!?!?
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#131 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:13 PM
 
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I'm not saying the issue is not important, because it is. All I'm saying is before deciding what to do just put yourself in the position of one of those other families. Those children are also sick. They are dealing with an equally stessful time in their lives. Also, I do not work for any RMH, I am just someone who's life RMH has affected positively.
You're right. It is stressfull. And those moms deserve to know without a doubt that they can breastfeed anywhere they wish- just as the law states.

So I think every RMH needs signs in every common space welcoming breastfeeding.

-Angela
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#132 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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Please remember this family and 49 other families staying at the Ronald McDonald House for VERY reduced rates because of the generosity of many, many people. The more money RMH has to spend defending itself, the more all these families will have to spend to stay there. RMH is a great place, and does more good in a single day that most people do in a lifetime. No child deserves such a situation, and it must be indescribably difficult for a mother to watch her child suffer. However, you cannot find a better, more welcoming place than the Ronald McDonald House of Houston. Even the electricity the woman used to look up the state law on her laptop is paid for by donations! My point is, it is ok to disagree with what you're asked to do, but if you feel so strongly about this topic and believe RMH is in the wrong, work with the staff of RMH to educate them and improve the House for future nursing mothers. Do not attempt to cripple the entire operation of the House. Too many others depend on this wonderful place. Calling for media involvement and lawsuits is certainly not working towards a solution, but is costing money, time and adding to the problem. I agree this issue needs attention, but for the past several days it has taken up every second of time of almost every employee at the Ronald McDonald House of Houston. There are 49 other families that need and deserve some of that attention as well. People need to look at the big picture.
passive aggressive guilt tripping doesn't go over around here.

as for looking at the big picture, it is RMH that needs to step back and look at it. if they are to engage in discriminatory practices, they need to be called on it and make changes within their organization so that nothing like this ever happens again.

the original poster and her family has demonstrated incredible restraint in light of the situation.

this all goes to show that we, as nursing mothers, are a force to be reckoned with. mess with the mama bulls...and you get the horns.
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#133 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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Summary, links, and information (who to call/where to email/mail, etc) are posted here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656675
Yep, its the same one as:
April 17
Ronald McDonald House - *INFORMATION ONLY* thread - get it here

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656675

Jessica

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#134 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:25 PM
 
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Please remember this family and 49 other families staying at the Ronald McDonald House for VERY reduced rates because of the generosity of many, many people. The more money RMH has to spend defending itself, the more all these families will have to spend to stay there. RMH is a great place, and does more good in a single day that most people do in a lifetime. No child deserves such a situation, and it must be indescribably difficult for a mother to watch her child suffer. However, you cannot find a better, more welcoming place than the Ronald McDonald House of Houston. Even the electricity the woman used to look up the state law on her laptop is paid for by donations! My point is, it is ok to disagree with what you're asked to do, but if you feel so strongly about this topic and believe RMH is in the wrong, work with the staff of RMH to educate them and improve the House for future nursing mothers. Do not attempt to cripple the entire operation of the House. Too many others depend on this wonderful place. Calling for media involvement and lawsuits is certainly not working towards a solution, but is costing money, time and adding to the problem. I agree this issue needs attention, but for the past several days it has taken up every second of time of almost every employee at the Ronald McDonald House of Houston. There are 49 other families that need and deserve some of that attention as well. People need to look at the big picture.
The big picture is, RMH brought this on themselves. They had the chance to make it ALL go away, and they screwed up that chance. They keep saying they've done nothing wrong, has there even been an APOLOGY to the family in question?
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#135 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:37 PM
 
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Yep, its the same one as:
April 17
Ronald McDonald House - *INFORMATION ONLY* thread - get it here

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=656675

Jessica
Oh, whoops! Sorry!
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#136 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:37 PM
 
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Just an aside, but can bulls be mamas?
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#137 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 05:45 PM
 
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Oh, and I just called TX DHSH and the Attorney General's office...I too am very unsatisfied with the Attorney General 'thing'...they took a message that "they will be sure to pass on to his administration"..gag...I said: His administration or HIM? She said she couldn't answer that for sure. I asked if he'd already been made aware of the situation..she couldn't answer that for sure either. I asked if she knew if he was going to address the issue. She couldn't answer that. *sigh* I'll just have to email him directly, but I'm sure he doesn't actually read his own email either...Guess we really need to ring his phone off the hook too!! Ladies?!?!?
I replied in the other thread but I'll post here too since this is the newest one

attached mama of 3 - I don't know about the AG but most elected officials really do "weigh the mail" (literaly) - so send a letter to him - especially if you are a constituent
(which I see you are)

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#138 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 06:29 PM
 
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Maybe instead of worrying about the electricity used by a mom looking up a law. . . RMH could just obey the law. That's free!
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#139 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 06:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wonderfulww View Post
Please remember this family and 49 other families staying at the Ronald McDonald House for VERY reduced rates because of the generosity of many, many people. The more money RMH has to spend defending itself, the more all these families will have to spend to stay there. RMH is a great place, and does more good in a single day that most people do in a lifetime. No child deserves such a situation, and it must be indescribably difficult for a mother to watch her child suffer. However, you cannot find a better, more welcoming place than the Ronald McDonald House of Houston. Even the electricity the woman used to look up the state law on her laptop is paid for by donations! My point is, it is ok to disagree with what you're asked to do, but if you feel so strongly about this topic and believe RMH is in the wrong, work with the staff of RMH to educate them and improve the House for future nursing mothers. Do not attempt to cripple the entire operation of the House. Too many others depend on this wonderful place. Calling for media involvement and lawsuits is certainly not working towards a solution, but is costing money, time and adding to the problem. I agree this issue needs attention, but for the past several days it has taken up every second of time of almost every employee at the Ronald McDonald House of Houston. There are 49 other families that need and deserve some of that attention as well. People need to look at the big picture.
Nobody here is trying to "cripple the operation of the house". Of course we want the RMH to continue to serve families. In fact, we are attempting to IMPROVE the operation of the house.

I'm puzzled as to how anyone could interpret our actions differently.



Quote:
Originally Posted by CallMeMommy View Post
I lurve RMH, I think they are wonderful, they do wonderful things, but that does NOT give them a pass to break the law. Good deeds to not negate bad deeds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fluffypenguin View Post
My family has donated $ to the RMH for quite few years now. I think the RMH does great things, but as a donator I do not like seeing such a discriminatory policy against breastfeeding.
Could have written that myself.
Thankfully, the RMH (which I have supported for almost 25 years, since its opening) in my area is pro-breastfeeding and above all this blatant discrimination and obvious disregard for the law.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jessjgh1 View Post
Not only did they create the problem, but they made it much worse.
ALL of RMH will be affected positively by policy changes that protect the rights and health needs of children needing their services, and breastfeeding is one of these rights.
...

I can say that I think that most of us are SHOCKED that this has gone so far, as we expected nothing but the best from an organization like RMH.
:



Quote:
Originally Posted by amandaleigh37 View Post
If they would rather use their time and resources to "fight" for their cause of discriminating and breaking the law, that is their choice. A simple apology and welcoming of nursing mothers ANYWHERE in their establishment would clear this whole thing up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by i'mmykid'$mom View Post

The Houston RMH has caused this uproar; this situation could have been rectified in a day. Instead it has been several days, phone calls, and one CYA meeting later with LAWYERS. Good grief woman, you are pestering the wrong people.




Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
So I think every RMH needs signs in every common space welcoming breastfeeding.
:



Quote:
Originally Posted by firstkid4me View Post
The big picture is, RMH brought this on themselves.
And that is the whole point, in a nutshell.
The Houston RMH needs to remedy the situation.
NOT the nursing mamas, who are protected by the law anyway. NOT the hundreds (thousands?) of lactivists who are spending their hours writing letters and making phone calls. NOT the lawyers.

The Houston RMH is responsible for the problem, and they should accept the responsibility of repairing it - permanently.

Every baptized Christian is, or should be, someone with an actual (disturbing) experience, ... a close encounter, with God; someone who, as a result, becomes a disturbing presence to others. - Fr. Anthony J. Gittins, A Presence That Disturbs
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#140 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 06:34 PM
 
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Unfortunately, this thread needs to be closed and some posts removed. I'll try to get it back as soon as humanly possible, but it's dinner time here.

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#141 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 07:17 PM
 
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Unlocking and returning. Let's all please keep the User Agreement in mind when posting. Specifically,
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#142 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 07:48 PM
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passive aggressive guilt tripping doesn't go over around here.

as for looking at the big picture, it is RMH that needs to step back and look at it. if they are to engage in discriminatory practices, they need to be called on it and make changes within their organization so that nothing like this ever happens again.

the original poster and her family has demonstrated incredible restraint in light of the situation.

this all goes to show that we, as nursing mothers, are a force to be reckoned with. mess with the mama bulls...and you get the horns.
:

(Except that bulls are, by nature, male. But I get your point!)

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#143 of 146 Old 04-17-2007, 11:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wonderfulww
I'm not saying the issue is not important, because it is. All I'm saying is before deciding what to do just put yourself in the position of one of those other families. Those children are also sick. They are dealing with an equally stessful time in their lives. Also, I do not work for any RMH, I am just someone who's life RMH has affected positively.
No one is putting those other families out, threatening to kick them out, harming them, or negatively affecting them by demanding that the rights of a mother to breastfeed her sick child be respected. Those other families aren't in danger, and no one is causing them any stress.

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#144 of 146 Old 04-18-2007, 12:31 AM
 
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Do not attempt to cripple the entire operation of the House. Too many others depend on this wonderful place. Calling for media involvement and lawsuits is certainly not working towards a solution, but is costing money, time and adding to the problem.
Three things, first, let's be honest here. If the original family had kept quiet about what happened, never told people their story, asked for public outcry, brought in lawyers, etc., this policy would have continued unquestionably. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes public pressure to make change (or hold companies to state law as in this case).

Secondly, I think the public (who does make so many donations to this organization) has the right to know if the organization is practicing illegal (or at least unethical) policies. I, for one, would never donate another cent to the organization until I receive some assurance that they're respecting the rights of a mother to feed her child a scientifically proven/superior healthy food. I only give money to organizations that I can feel good about, and who share my same values - and I think that is my right as a donor.

And finally, if we never stood up for ourselves when we were wronged, laws would never change, victims would never see justice, and those who do the wrong would continue in their ways. How sad. Think of the larger implications here.
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#145 of 146 Old 04-18-2007, 01:04 AM
 
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I was up late watching TBS on Tuesday night, and there was an ad for a Chicagoland RMH. Now, I am frequently up late watching TBS. My dh works often works remotely from home and tends to be quite the night owl. It's hard for me to fall asleep without him, so I tend to be up late watching TBS. I've never seen a RMH ad before. Makes me wonder if the corrective PR campaign had already begun, even up here (or especially up here since I'm not too far from RMH corporate?) in Illinois. Hmmmm......

BGT -- I'm thinking of you and your family and sending calm, healing vibes/thoughts/prayers out for Tobin.
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#146 of 146 Old 04-18-2007, 07:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by wonderfulww View Post
I'm not saying the issue is not important, because it is. All I'm saying is before deciding what to do just put yourself in the position of one of those other families. Those children are also sick. They are dealing with an equally stessful time in their lives. Also, I do not work for any RMH, I am just someone who's life RMH has affected positively.
No one should have to ask RMH to do anything special. What they are asked to do here is infinitely simple: obey the law. I'm sure if a cancer patient wanted to toke up in RMH, they would ask her to stop. I'm sure if RMH asked African American residents to announce their presence when entering common areas, you'd get it. Well, by requiring nursing mothers to announce their presence and "be discrete" they are breaking the law.
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