Does "pro-breastfeeding" equal "anti-formula"? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-13-2007, 10:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
Can you explain this a little more?
Well, basically, the quality of the formula is only part of the argument. If formula WERE nutritionally close to breastmilk (as I said we can't get it 100%) then we'd have the argument that by having such a good substitute we were making it even easier to FF--it's certainly something that comes up every time they improve formula. SO I think the quality of formula argument is, in some ways, unwinnable. Certainly, the formula companies can't win--either they're giving kids second-rate cr@p or they're trying to coax mothers away from what's right. Not that I'm a great sympathiser of Nutricia or Nestle... but then my attitude towards any company is that they're going to do whatever it takes to sell their product. I never rely on corporate benevolence--it's down to the government and consumers to act as a counterweight.

To me, formula is an essential back-up. Even in our ideal 97% world, you're going to need formula for some babies and it should be as good as it can, because these babies NEED it and even if it's second best it should be as close as it can be. And because I had to give it to DD, and because I had such a bad initial experience, I see my lactivism as being focused on positive moves and encouragement, not debates with other lactivists over formula. My yardstick is always "will this make a mother more likely to breastfeed?" If it doesn't--it's not worth it. My goal is a world where all women see BF as the norm, where they are provided with all the information they need to do it correctly, where the hospital/birth environment provides the proper start, where they can access peer support and LCs... and, when G-d forbid that fails, and donated BM isn't available, they can go into a chemist's and buy a carton of high quality formula, knowing that they did everything they could.

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Old 05-13-2007, 10:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by carriebft View Post
When DHA came out in formula I remember the line went "closer to breastmilk than ever" and I remember thinking "add some to coffee and it would be 'closer to breastmilk than ever'"

But of course all the medical pages were using this line, too. and, of course, none of them mentioned where the formula started in the "closer to breastmilk" spectrum. It's 50000 miles from breastmilk and addition of DHA/ARA only brought it (arguable) 2mm closer but, from all the hype it made you'd think these formulas were one step from squirting out our boobs.
Haha, the government made Milupa take "closest to breastmilk" off their cartons I've still got the old ones though, tch!

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Old 05-13-2007, 10:19 PM
 
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Ah ok, I get what you are saying now. I'm sorry I read your post as you saying that lactivists would always complain even if formula was closer to breastmilk but you didn't mean it negatively like that. (I'm horrible at reading tone!)

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Old 05-13-2007, 10:54 PM
 
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First off, I meant you as a general "you". I went back and read the OP. DOES PRO BREASTFEEDING = ANTI FORMULA.

Basic breastfeeding says that in order to build supply baby needs to be at the breast as much as possible. No pacifiers, no bottles and no formula. If formula satiates a baby for three hours, thats three hours that baby wont be as the breast stimulating production. For that reason alone, pro breastfeeders should be anti formula unless other extenuating circumstances apply. right?

But when this thread got going, the poison angle was brought up. Who cares if I personally think formula is poison? I defend that I do believe it. Like a PP said, I dont think tobacco is poison, I think the additives in commercial cigarettes are.

I would not accuse a woman of poisoning her child. I would not approach a friend and tell them formula is poison.

Its my belief. I believe a lot of things. I think americans are slowly poisoning ourselves with pesticides, antibiotics, growth hormones, insecticides, bleach, excessive cleaning products, OTC medications. I dont walk around accosting strangers for their practices.

When you come to a lactivist board, and you ask a question like this OP you are going to get mostly extremes, and a few in the middle opinions. To some, seeing in print "formula is poison" sparks anger, to some (like me) there is a bit of resentment or guilt to others there is shame or hurt feelings. It makes others uncomfortable. Others agree with it.

But its been made so clear that no one here is HERE to judge ff moms. We are not attacking them. We are all here to SPARK change in our SOCIOLOGICAL NORMS. I would never get on a high horse with a new mom coming to me for help. But here, talking amongst ourselves in a lactivist forum. I will tell you how I feel about formula. My family and most friends are ALL ff moms. If asked my opinion, I usually say I think formula has ingredients in it that are not okay. But they know this because I dont let them give my daughter purple ketchup or HFCS juices. But there is no point in getting on a soapbox every time a can of formula comes out.


But when pp have said, formula doesnt hurt all babies and its not poison its sub optimal......

yes, sure. Some babies are fine. I just would prefer that they be honest about their product being very sub optimal and do something about it. I cannot believe it is okay to consume something with MSG/HFCS in it every four hours for one year straight.

I do not consume HFCS, why in this green earth would I put it in my infant? That is of course barring extenuating circumstances. If I were trapped in a bomb shelter, I would drink HFCS laden drinks and eat ramen noodles til the cows came home without a second thought. If I could not produce milk or get any from my friends and my babe was starving, I would give formula too. But I would start fighting to have better options.

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Old 05-14-2007, 10:44 AM
 
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Just wanted to chime in with something that's been bugging me a bit - formula does not contain HFCS. Some of them contain corn syrup, but no HFCS and I just looked over the ingredients lists of about 10 different formulas. Regular Milk-based formulas contain no corn syrup, their carb source is lactose. Soy, Lacto-free, and specialty formulas (Alimentum and the like) contain corn syrup as their carb source. Good Start uses a blend of lactose and maltodextrin. The two organic milk-based formulas that I looked at use brown rice syrup as their carb source.

Personally, I will have nothing to do with villifying formula as I I don't see how that will reach out to women to increase breastfeeding numbers. ABM marketing practices, sure. My goal is to offer support to as many women as I can and not perpetuate the image that lactivists are hiding in stores waiting to pounce on you for buying ABM.
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Old 05-14-2007, 11:07 AM
 
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i am anti-formula. i don't see how anyone could feed their babies such highly processed foods and be ok with it.

Jen-loving Bill, mama to Teryn 18, Kalyn 16, Ricky 13, Natalie 5, Angel Zoe '07 and rainbow1284.gifAmelia Rae 22 mos bonus kids (dss) W 14, W 13 NEW grandbaby due 10/10/11

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Old 05-14-2007, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by nausicaamom View Post
Just wanted to chime in with something that's been bugging me a bit - formula does not contain HFCS. Some of them contain corn syrup, but no HFCS and I just looked over the ingredients lists of about 10 different formulas. Regular Milk-based formulas contain no corn syrup, their carb source is lactose. Soy, Lacto-free, and specialty formulas (Alimentum and the like) contain corn syrup as their carb source. Good Start uses a blend of lactose and maltodextrin. The two organic milk-based formulas that I looked at use brown rice syrup as their carb source.

Personally, I will have nothing to do with villifying formula as I I don't see how that will reach out to women to increase breastfeeding numbers. ABM marketing practices, sure. My goal is to offer support to as many women as I can and not perpetuate the image that lactivists are hiding in stores waiting to pounce on you for buying ABM.
I agree with your post . I wanted to point out that maltodextrin actually is corn syrup. It's high maltose corn syrup, usually in powder form, but it actually is corn syrup.

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Old 05-14-2007, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I haven't commented on the HFCS until now because I hadn't made the connection that HFCS meant High Fructose Corn Syrup. Infant formula, at least in Canada, emphatically does NOT contain HFCS. Some of it does contain high maltose corn syrup (corn maltodextrin), but this is quite different from high fructose. Maltose, if memory serves, is a more complex sugar than fructose. It's a polysaccharide and is generally used as a thickener rather than a sweetner as it is much less sweet than fructose or dextrose. Still not ideal, but better than fructose.

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Old 05-14-2007, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by boobs4milk View Post
i am anti-formula. i don't see how anyone could feed their babies such highly processed foods and be ok with it.

That's unfortunate. Mothers who have to feed their babies formula against their wishes have to get to a place where they are ok with it. Many struggle with this, but if they don't get to a place of acceptance, what should they do? Keep beating themselves up for eternity? Everyone else who does it 'just because' probably don't care.

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Old 05-14-2007, 12:05 PM
 
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I agree with your post . I wanted to point out that maltodextrin actually is corn syrup. It's high maltose corn syrup, usually in powder form, but it actually is corn syrup.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:35 PM
 
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HFCS, or as you pointed out, just plain corn syrup (that still has fructose in it), are used as sweeteners in formula that is not milk based. This incredibly sweet sweetener is not good for babies either. And for the record, I do not buy things for DH and I that have Corn Syrup in them either. So therefore I couldnt see being okay with DD consuming so much (extenuating circumstances aside).

No one has to villify formula to suggest that it is not good for infants.

If you (general) eat organic and try to convince someone else to eat organic, do you tell them about the chemicals in their food?

No one is changing anyones minds on this topic. It doesnt need to be tit for tat here. The OP asked opinions. Many were given.

Everyone is free to be a lactivist in whatever way they see fit.

LLL is very careful about speech and wording.. they still get accused by some as militant and over bearing.

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Old 05-14-2007, 02:24 PM
 
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i am anti-formula. i don't see how anyone could feed their babies such highly processed foods and be ok with it.
I'm not ok with formula either, but I have little choice. At a minimum, my babies need supplementation due to my breast reduction choice (made with insufficient info and research on the subject on my part) and I can't offer them anything more. When and where formula may be necessary, why can't "they" figure out a way to make the stuff in a more appropriate manner? Health classes in my son's grade school preach the dangers of hcfs, why can't they take it out of baby formula?
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Old 05-14-2007, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Health classes in my son's grade school preach the dangers of hcfs, why can't they take it out of baby formula?
IT's not in regular, milk based AIM. It's in specialty and soy formulas, probably to try to mask the fact that it tastes like a$$ with added sweetness. I'm just inferring that last part tho .

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Old 05-14-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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That's unfortunate. Mothers who have to feed their babies formula against their wishes have to get to a place where they are ok with it. Many struggle with this, but if they don't get to a place of acceptance, what should they do? Keep beating themselves up for eternity? Everyone else who does it 'just because' probably don't care.

Yes it's a lot of work to get over the guilt. And it pours salt into the would for someone to say 'you didn't try hard enough' with the smug attitude that they're a better person than me simply because they were able to feed their baby from the boob and I wasn't. Or even the condesending 'well at least you tried.' (depends on how it's said) Ah well, at least I've managed to go all organic with him
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Old 05-14-2007, 03:54 PM
 
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IT's not in regular, milk based AIM. It's in specialty and soy formulas, probably to try to mask the fact that it tastes like a$$ with added sweetness. I'm just inferring that last part tho .
True, but then you have the option of feeding your baby dairy and hfcs products OR potentially harmful soy products. It's a no-win. I got rid of formula at 9 months for my oldest, and at 12 months for my now-toddler, because I just couldn't wait to get the crap out of my house. I hate that they had to have it. I hate what it may have done to their bodies. And I most hate that I wasn't more aware of what "you might not be able to breastfeed successfully" meant before I made the choice to have breast reduction surgery.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:25 PM
 
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You aren't seriously suggesting that saying that one poison ingredient doesn't make something poisonous are you? Ask your friends if there's a fallacy which covers misapplying logical concepts to physical realities.

I really hadn't thought of formula as poison, but if it has msg and corn syrup in it, then it's basically like feeding babies sugar cereal.

I will be *so* happy when ethanol takes off and the government can subsidize that use of corn instead.
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Old 05-14-2007, 07:41 PM
 
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just because an ideal doesn't work for you personally, it's unnecessary to jump into every discussion with 'it didn't work for me!' it's not all about you, which is where i have trouble with all the pissing and moaning on every thread in the lactivism forum.
Here's a thought - if you keep hearing the same complaint about the same thing in every thread, maybe the complainers are not the ones with the problem.
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:28 PM
 
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You aren't seriously suggesting that saying that one poison ingredient doesn't make something poisonous are you? Ask your friends if there's a fallacy which covers misapplying logical concepts to physical realities.

I really hadn't thought of formula as poison, but if it has msg and corn syrup in it, then it's basically like feeding babies sugar cereal.

I will be *so* happy when ethanol takes off and the government can subsidize that use of corn instead.

"Think of it this way. There are some medicines that if we took the ingrediants by themselves, it might kill us. But mixed and processed a certain way, it becomes theraputic." (posted word for word from my repeating your question to him)

I think to get past this fallacy you would have to prove that the processing and the "formula" (which we don't know) maintains the poison in its original form and that the "poison" enters and affects the body in the same way it would on its own.

PS: Like I said, it was a musing (which is why I said it "MAY" be a fallacy in my original post on the matter). No need to jump down my throat

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Old 05-14-2007, 11:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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True, but then you have the option of feeding your baby dairy and hfcs products OR potentially harmful soy products. It's a no-win. I got rid of formula at 9 months for my oldest, and at 12 months for my now-toddler, because I just couldn't wait to get the crap out of my house. I hate that they had to have it. I hate what it may have done to their bodies. And I most hate that I wasn't more aware of what "you might not be able to breastfeed successfully" meant before I made the choice to have breast reduction surgery.
Actually, it's the option of feeding your baby dairy *without* HFCS or potentially harmful soy products *with* HFCS.

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Old 05-14-2007, 11:46 PM
 
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Gah. I'm not watching as I type. Either way, formula is sub-standard fare. I'm crossing my fingers for some serious milk this time - I can always feel it come in, and I'm horribly uncomfortable for a week or so until it dries up. In the past it's been "difficult" to convince said milk to make its way through remaining ductwork. Although today, just for fun, I showed my toddler that Mommy has milk in her breasts, and he was highly amused, b/c I squirted him in the face. He didn't care for the milk, but he enjoyed the game of squeezing my breasts to see the milk drip out. Maybe this time.....maybe this time..... Oooooh, I'd LOVE to breastfeed my baby this time.......
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:03 AM
 
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For me I am anti formula for those mothers (and we have all met them) who never even considered BF and stuck a bottle right in that baby's mouth. Formula is sometimes necessary and if used out of necessity then who are we to judge. It is when it is used out of complete laziness that I have a problem. When a woman tells me how she never even attempted cause her partner/husband/mom/grandma/grocery store clerk thought it was gross or she wasn't gonna ruin her breasts or all the other whacked out reasons I have heard that is when I am ANTI FORMULA and want to vomit!! : GRRR!!! So maybe in reality I am not anti formula. I am anti mothers who are anti BF. Geezz! Now I have confused myself.......
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Old 05-15-2007, 11:14 AM
 
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First off, I meant you as a general "you". I went back and read the OP. DOES PRO BREASTFEEDING = ANTI FORMULA.

Basic breastfeeding says that in order to build supply baby needs to be at the breast as much as possible. No pacifiers, no bottles and no formula. If formula satiates a baby for three hours, thats three hours that baby wont be as the breast stimulating production. For that reason alone, pro breastfeeders should be anti formula unless other extenuating circumstances apply. right?

But when this thread got going, the poison angle was brought up. Who cares if I personally think formula is poison? I defend that I do believe it. Like a PP said, I dont think tobacco is poison, I think the additives in commercial cigarettes are.

I would not accuse a woman of poisoning her child. I would not approach a friend and tell them formula is poison.

Its my belief. I believe a lot of things. I think americans are slowly poisoning ourselves with pesticides, antibiotics, growth hormones, insecticides, bleach, excessive cleaning products, OTC medications. I dont walk around accosting strangers for their practices.

When you come to a lactivist board, and you ask a question like this OP you are going to get mostly extremes, and a few in the middle opinions. To some, seeing in print "formula is poison" sparks anger, to some (like me) there is a bit of resentment or guilt to others there is shame or hurt feelings. It makes others uncomfortable. Others agree with it.

But its been made so clear that no one here is HERE to judge ff moms. We are not attacking them. We are all here to SPARK change in our SOCIOLOGICAL NORMS. I would never get on a high horse with a new mom coming to me for help. But here, talking amongst ourselves in a lactivist forum. I will tell you how I feel about formula. My family and most friends are ALL ff moms. If asked my opinion, I usually say I think formula has ingredients in it that are not okay. But they know this because I dont let them give my daughter purple ketchup or HFCS juices. But there is no point in getting on a soapbox every time a can of formula comes out.


But when pp have said, formula doesnt hurt all babies and its not poison its sub optimal......

yes, sure. Some babies are fine. I just would prefer that they be honest about their product being very sub optimal and do something about it. I cannot believe it is okay to consume something with MSG/HFCS in it every four hours for one year straight.

I do not consume HFCS, why in this green earth would I put it in my infant? That is of course barring extenuating circumstances. If I were trapped in a bomb shelter, I would drink HFCS laden drinks and eat ramen noodles til the cows came home without a second thought. If I could not produce milk or get any from my friends and my babe was starving, I would give formula too. But I would start fighting to have better options.
Is formula sub-optimal? Yes. But let's be accurate. Formula does not contain high fructose corn syrup. Soy and nutramigen type formulas *do* contain corn syrup, but not high fructose corn syrup. Here are the ingredients of a regular, normal can of Similac with Iron.

"UD Water, Nonfat Milk, Lactose, High Oleic Safflower Oil, Soy Oil, Coconut Oil, Whey Protein Concentrate, Less Than 0.5%:, C. Cohnii Oil, M Alpina Oil (source of DHA), Potassium Citrate (source of ARA), Calcium Carbonate, Ascorbic Acid, Magnesium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Choline Bitartrate, Taurine, M Inositol, d-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, L Carnitine, Zinc Sulfate, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Palmitate, Cupric Sulfate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D 3, Cyanocobalamin, Nucleotides (Adenosine 5'-Monophosphate), Cytidine 5'-Monophosphate, Disodium Guanosine 5'-Monophosphate, Disodium Uridine 5'-Monophosphate"

I don't see MSG or HFCS anywhere there.

Here's the ingredients for Similac Isomil (soy) formula.

"Pareve, U, Water (86%), Corn Syrup (6.6%), Soy Protein Isolate (1.9%), High Oleic Safflower Oil (1.4%), Sugar (sucrose, 1.3%), Soy Oil (1.1%), Coconut Oil (1.0%), Less Than 0.5%:, C. Cohnii Oil, M Alpina Oil (source of DHA), Calcium Citrate (source of ARA), Potassium Citrate, Calcium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Mono and DiGlycerides, Soy Lecithin, Magnesium Chloride, Carrageenan, Sodium Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Choline Chloride, L-Methionine, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, M Inositol, Zinc Sulfate, d-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, L Carnitine, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, Cupric Sulfate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Palmitate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Hydroxide, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D 3, Cyanocobalamin"

Now you could make the argument that SOY is horrible for babies and soy formula, with corn syrup, even worse. I wouldn't argue that. It would be nice if there were some other alternatives, like goats milk formula in the US.

Do those ingredients sounds scary? Sure. I realize a lot of them are vitamin compounds, but still... YES they sound scary. Scary enough to not need exaggeration IMO.

As for fighting to have better options, in between pumping, washing pump parts, fixing up the lact-aid, washing lact-aid parts, feeding my baby, loving my baby, trying to take some time to enjoy my baby, at what point should I fight for better formula, and what should I do? I really wouldn't know where to begin and I would venture to say that most new mamas are overwhelmed with what is already on their plate without adding a crusade to the mix. I am not saying the crusade isn't worth fighting, just that I do understand why moms wind up feeding formula and just accepting it.

For me at least, I do have a tolerate/hate relationship with formula. I hate it but have to accept that I'm grateful it exists so my baby can eat. I have to buy formula, and I'm a lactivist. It's not easy!
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Old 05-15-2007, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Is formula sub-optimal? Yes. But let's be accurate. Formula does not contain high fructose corn syrup. Soy and nutramigen type formulas *do* contain corn syrup, but not high fructose corn syrup. Here are the ingredients of a regular, normal can of Similac with Iron.

"UD Water, Nonfat Milk, Lactose, High Oleic Safflower Oil, Soy Oil, Coconut Oil, Whey Protein Concentrate, Less Than 0.5%:, C. Cohnii Oil, M Alpina Oil (source of DHA), Potassium Citrate (source of ARA), Calcium Carbonate, Ascorbic Acid, Magnesium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Choline Bitartrate, Taurine, M Inositol, d-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, L Carnitine, Zinc Sulfate, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Palmitate, Cupric Sulfate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D 3, Cyanocobalamin, Nucleotides (Adenosine 5'-Monophosphate), Cytidine 5'-Monophosphate, Disodium Guanosine 5'-Monophosphate, Disodium Uridine 5'-Monophosphate"

I don't see MSG or HFCS anywhere there.

Here's the ingredients for Similac Isomil (soy) formula.

"Pareve, U, Water (86%), Corn Syrup (6.6%), Soy Protein Isolate (1.9%), High Oleic Safflower Oil (1.4%), Sugar (sucrose, 1.3%), Soy Oil (1.1%), Coconut Oil (1.0%), Less Than 0.5%:, C. Cohnii Oil, M Alpina Oil (source of DHA), Calcium Citrate (source of ARA), Potassium Citrate, Calcium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Mono and DiGlycerides, Soy Lecithin, Magnesium Chloride, Carrageenan, Sodium Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Choline Chloride, L-Methionine, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, M Inositol, Zinc Sulfate, d-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, L Carnitine, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, Cupric Sulfate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Palmitate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Hydroxide, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D 3, Cyanocobalamin"

Now you could make the argument that SOY is horrible for babies and soy formula, with corn syrup, even worse. I wouldn't argue that. It would be nice if there were some other alternatives, like goats milk formula in the US.

Do those ingredients sounds scary? Sure. I realize a lot of them are vitamin compounds, but still... YES they sound scary. Scary enough to not need exaggeration IMO.

As for fighting to have better options, in between pumping, washing pump parts, fixing up the lact-aid, washing lact-aid parts, feeding my baby, loving my baby, trying to take some time to enjoy my baby, at what point should I fight for better formula, and what should I do? I really wouldn't know where to begin and I would venture to say that most new mamas are overwhelmed with what is already on their plate without adding a crusade to the mix. I am not saying the crusade isn't worth fighting, just that I do understand why moms wind up feeding formula and just accepting it.

For me at least, I do have a tolerate/hate relationship with formula. I hate it but have to accept that I'm grateful it exists so my baby can eat. I have to buy formula, and I'm a lactivist. It's not easy!


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Old 05-15-2007, 12:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
Is formula sub-optimal? Yes. But let's be accurate. Formula does not contain high fructose corn syrup. Soy and nutramigen type formulas *do* contain corn syrup, but not high fructose corn syrup. Here are the ingredients of a regular, normal can of Similac with Iron.

"UD Water, Nonfat Milk, Lactose, High Oleic Safflower Oil, Soy Oil, Coconut Oil, Whey Protein Concentrate, Less Than 0.5%:, C. Cohnii Oil, M Alpina Oil (source of DHA), Potassium Citrate (source of ARA), Calcium Carbonate, Ascorbic Acid, Magnesium Chloride, Sodium Chloride, Ferrous Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Choline Bitartrate, Taurine, M Inositol, d-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, L Carnitine, Zinc Sulfate, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Palmitate, Cupric Sulfate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D 3, Cyanocobalamin, Nucleotides (Adenosine 5'-Monophosphate), Cytidine 5'-Monophosphate, Disodium Guanosine 5'-Monophosphate, Disodium Uridine 5'-Monophosphate"

I don't see MSG or HFCS anywhere there.

Here's the ingredients for Similac Isomil (soy) formula.

"Pareve, U, Water (86%), Corn Syrup (6.6%), Soy Protein Isolate (1.9%), High Oleic Safflower Oil (1.4%), Sugar (sucrose, 1.3%), Soy Oil (1.1%), Coconut Oil (1.0%), Less Than 0.5%:, C. Cohnii Oil, M Alpina Oil (source of DHA), Calcium Citrate (source of ARA), Potassium Citrate, Calcium Phosphate, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Mono and DiGlycerides, Soy Lecithin, Magnesium Chloride, Carrageenan, Sodium Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Choline Chloride, L-Methionine, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, M Inositol, Zinc Sulfate, d-Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, L Carnitine, Niacinamide, Calcium Pantothenate, Cupric Sulfate, Thiamine Chloride Hydrochloride, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Palmitate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Hydroxide, Phylloquinone, Biotin, Sodium Selenate, Vitamin D 3, Cyanocobalamin"

Now you could make the argument that SOY is horrible for babies and soy formula, with corn syrup, even worse. I wouldn't argue that. It would be nice if there were some other alternatives, like goats milk formula in the US.

Do those ingredients sounds scary? Sure. I realize a lot of them are vitamin compounds, but still... YES they sound scary. Scary enough to not need exaggeration IMO.

As for fighting to have better options, in between pumping, washing pump parts, fixing up the lact-aid, washing lact-aid parts, feeding my baby, loving my baby, trying to take some time to enjoy my baby, at what point should I fight for better formula, and what should I do? I really wouldn't know where to begin and I would venture to say that most new mamas are overwhelmed with what is already on their plate without adding a crusade to the mix. I am not saying the crusade isn't worth fighting, just that I do understand why moms wind up feeding formula and just accepting it.

For me at least, I do have a tolerate/hate relationship with formula. I hate it but have to accept that I'm grateful it exists so my baby can eat. I have to buy formula, and I'm a lactivist. It's not easy!


What a GREAT POST So much better than what I could of wrote!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-15-2007, 05:35 PM
 
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I have been thinking about this thread and have to add another comment. The "formula saves babies" defense really gets to me. And again, I am NOT against mothers who feed their babies artificially (I am trying out my lactivist lingo), but I am totally against formula. My beef is this: There are countries where 99% of babies are breastfed. And I am sure, even there (Sweden, Norway, I believe?) there are some who do not BF for reasons other than a true biological inability. So, if LESS THAN 1% of babies truly CAN'T get mama's milk, I have to believe that there would be enough donor milk to get BM to them. I just don't think we NEED formula at all in this country. The majority of our problems BFing are self-inflicted (as a culture, not as individuals). If ABM was not an option, I truly believe that all babies would receive BM (and, consequently, NOT DIE). Even in extreme rare circumstances where BM were not available from donors, homemade baby formula--using raw milk and other "real" foods--is much more nutritionally sound, and much cheaper than commercially made ABMs. In conclusion, I am convinced that all babies and families would be better off if commercial formula did not exist. JMO, I just had to get it out. Thanks for listening.

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Old 05-15-2007, 06:31 PM
 
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I cringe every time I see a mention of homemade ABM. Yes, AMB is way overused in this country, but even WHO recognizes it has a place after breast milk from various sources. Homemade ABM is dangerous in my opionion and not everyone has access to safe ingredients or safe methods to make it themselves. Just because something is "natural" doesn't make it automatically better or safer.

Removing ABM as an option for baby feedingg is moot in the US because the infrastructure necessary to support a 90% breastfeeding rate (which I've seen quoted as Norway's number) is almost nonexistant. Removing commercially produced ABM will bring us back to the days of condensed milk and cornsyrup which did in fact kill babies. A previous poster mentioned a book about the history of wetnursing in the US that did give numbers on how many babies homemade ABM killed and how many commercially produced ABM have saved.
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nausicaamom View Post
Just wanted to chime in with something that's been bugging me a bit - formula does not contain HFCS. Some of them contain corn syrup, but no HFCS and I just looked over the ingredients lists of about 10 different formulas. Regular Milk-based formulas contain no corn syrup, their carb source is lactose. Soy, Lacto-free, and specialty formulas (Alimentum and the like) contain corn syrup as their carb source. Good Start uses a blend of lactose and maltodextrin. The two organic milk-based formulas that I looked at use brown rice syrup as their carb source.

Personally, I will have nothing to do with villifying formula as I I don't see how that will reach out to women to increase breastfeeding numbers. ABM marketing practices, sure. My goal is to offer support to as many women as I can and not perpetuate the image that lactivists are hiding in stores waiting to pounce on you for buying ABM.
Thank you!! Great post!!!!!!

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Old 05-15-2007, 06:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by boobs4milk View Post
i am anti-formula. i don't see how anyone could feed their babies such highly processed foods and be ok with it.
I don't want this to come across as snarky, becasue I am asking this as a legitimate question. What happens AFTER nursing for 1, 2, 3 years and then the child is only eating solid foods? Are you ok with them eating ANY processed foods? I mean, a mom can be choosy and eat organic, fresh fruits and veggies, whole grains, but come on.....at some point the kid is going to eat a piece of birthday cake.

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Old 05-15-2007, 06:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prettypixels View Post
As for fighting to have better options, in between pumping, washing pump parts, fixing up the lact-aid, washing lact-aid parts, feeding my baby, loving my baby, trying to take some time to enjoy my baby, at what point should I fight for better formula, and what should I do? I really wouldn't know where to begin and I would venture to say that most new mamas are overwhelmed with what is already on their plate without adding a crusade to the mix. I am not saying the crusade isn't worth fighting, just that I do understand why moms wind up feeding formula and just accepting it.

For me at least, I do have a tolerate/hate relationship with formula. I hate it but have to accept that I'm grateful it exists so my baby can eat. I have to buy formula, and I'm a lactivist. It's not easy!
This is worded brilliantly! I think to each his own and that's why I stay out of other mother's personal business when it comes to raising their children. I'll raise mine how I see fit and vice versa. Makes everybody happy.

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Old 05-15-2007, 06:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by leila1213 View Post
I have been thinking about this thread and have to add another comment. The "formula saves babies" defense really gets to me. And again, I am NOT against mothers who feed their babies artificially (I am trying out my lactivist lingo), but I am totally against formula. My beef is this: There are countries where 99% of babies are breastfed. And I am sure, even there (Sweden, Norway, I believe?) there are some who do not BF for reasons other than a true biological inability. So, if LESS THAN 1% of babies truly CAN'T get mama's milk, I have to believe that there would be enough donor milk to get BM to them. I just don't think we NEED formula at all in this country. The majority of our problems BFing are self-inflicted (as a culture, not as individuals). If ABM was not an option, I truly believe that all babies would receive BM (and, consequently, NOT DIE). Even in extreme rare circumstances where BM were not available from donors, homemade baby formula--using raw milk and other "real" foods--is much more nutritionally sound, and much cheaper than commercially made ABMs. In conclusion, I am convinced that all babies and families would be better off if commercial formula did not exist. JMO, I just had to get it out. Thanks for listening.
There is no country that sustains a 99% rate. Norway achieves a 99% rate upon _leaving the hospital_. 90% have maintained it at 4mos. This is a superlative achievement and should not be underestimated, but that leaves 10% of non-BF babies. The accounts I have read of Norway are that it is socially unacceptable not to breastfeed, so the number of women choosing to FF is small.

It's estimated that 3-5% of women suffer from insufficient glandular tissue (the proportion is significantly higher amongst women with PCOS, so any ethnicities with high PCOS rates will be higher--e.g. Ashkenazi Jews). In addition to that there are babies with severe feeding difficulties where the mother is unable to pump sufficient quantities, severe allergies where the mother is unable to maintain a suitable diet, babies with unusual medical conditions who are unable to digest ordinary BM (e.g. PKU, galactosemia--of course these babies require special medical formulas not standard ABM), and adopted babies (some women can induce lactation but it is not foolproof). And that's just a list of women who genuinely cannot breastfeed or can only do so with supplementation.

ABM will, therefore, always be necessary. Even IF (and I doubt this is possible) we could source sufficient donor milk, you'd have times when travelling when you have no facilities for EBM (just as CD users may occasionally need a disposable because they have nowhere to wash the nappies).

And commercial ABM is safer for the vast majority of women/babies than homemade. A few women may have the facilities for safe preparation but it's not something that can be relied upon.

DD 01/2007, DS 09/2011

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