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#121 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 05:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pookel View Post
S It's hard enough to give formula knowing that breastmilk is better, without getting questioned and criticized and insulted for it.
what I have seen on MDC and elsewhere is not individual ff moms being insulted, but rather offsite misc generalized ff moms being insulted.

Rarely is anyone going to say "Pookel, your reasons were crap! etc etc". however, I have seen plenty of examples of "OMG, my cousin/sil/neighbor/playgroup friend told me that she weaned because of X,Y,or Z - isn't that stupid? if she had only done A, B, or C, she could still be breastfeeding."

Reading those posts criticizing anonymous third parties are even more harmful than direct attacks against someone - because that third party cannot defend themselves. They can be turned into the perfect strawman to dump all of our judgments on and we feel like we are doing SOMETHING good.

And those of us on the sidelines are left, thinking "wow, I hope I never do that, because otherwise, I'd be a pretty crappy mother."

And those of us who can relate to that third party are left thinking "Ouch! That isn't fair! I'm not a crappy mom, I did so much and tried so hard and if they only knew, but, hey, maybe it doesn't matter, maybe they are right and I am a crappy ass mom."

I am pleased that most of the time on MDC, someone will call the posters when this happens. But it happens frequently enough (and not just here, but all across MDC - whatever your favorite topic, there will be an OMG dogpile now and again).

Just my 2 cents.

Siobhan

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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#122 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 06:01 PM
 
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I'm not offended by BFing in entertainment/commercials/kids programming. I can imagine many FFers by choice are, and even some that are not by choice or maybe even some BFers could be offended as a PP mentioned...

I used to be offended by all the lactivism...even by all the Breast is Best campaign(I was most offended by people telling my I wasn't doing the best I could for my kiddos I love, and that they would be as smart as, or as healthy as bf kiddos)...but I've come to realize it's not about me. (my 4 adopted children have never had one drop of breastmilk ) It is about the moms who do NOT KNOW that breastmilk is best: REALLY! NOT everyone knows that breastmilk is best!! And many choose FF for the ease & convenience it poses.

People need to be educated (and many of you are right: education should not = being made to feel like a sucky mom!). So there's gotta be a delicate balance. And maybe that comes with relationship: rather than try to educate the masses or offer advice to a ffing stranger (whose circumstances you know nothing about), maybe it is more effective to educate those in your close circle! And then, maybe, they will go on to educate those in their circle--like a ripple effect! I'm not negating the benefit of breastmilk-benefit articles, nurse-ins, etc. And the risk of offense should not chase a lactivist from a good cause, yet it must be done in an attractive way: attract women to bfing rather than shaming them for giving their babies "poison"!

And here where we live I get no strange looks for ffing my babies: it is actually expected as we are different races from each other--so NIP bfing my adopted babies would definitly attract WAY more looks & comments (especially in my area where I've hardly seen even same-race families NIP--I can remember one time in the last year.)
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#123 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 06:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pookel View Post
Hm, I guess I wasn't clear ...

I didn't mean that articles explaining the benefits of breastfeeding are offensive or shouldn't be published. I mean, it's simple truth that breastmilk is better and it's important to get that message out there.

What I mean is, if you want to breastfeed and you have to use formula, you're already seeing messages everywhere that make you question your adequacy as a mother; you're already feeling awful about resorting to something you KNOW is second best. So when a few militant lactivists step over the line and say something offensive, it's like a punch in the gut. It's hard enough to give formula knowing that breastmilk is better, without getting questioned and criticized and insulted for it.

If you're breastfeeding exclusively, you have the comfort of knowing that what you're doing is medically best, supported by all the experts (at least on paper ... let's not get into what individual doctors might say), supported by large communities of women online, and it's natural, traditional, and helpful for bonding with your baby. So if you get a couple of rude looks in public for doing something you KNOW is best, why should it bother you?
WOW!! This is one of the best posts I think I have ever read on MDC. I back you up 100% on what you are saying here.

An incredibly thankful SAH Mommy to 3 fiendishly enchanting girls 11/04,10/05, & 12/06. 
 
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#124 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 06:50 PM
 
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i am not saying it is acceptable to hurt any ff feelings expessually when you dont know their circumstances. excuse me if i word this wrong but this is the impression i get from some ff. that they have as many hurdles as nip moms. that we should walk on eggshells to not offend them. we should accept formula as normal suplementation. i never read any articles putting down moms who ff in public but how many times have you heard that bf is ok as long as you cover up. i dont understand why someone, in a lactivism forum, would think that ff should accepted the same as bf. this is not meant to offend. everyones situation is different. i thought that lactivism was to promote bf in a positive a educational matter, to help promote bf to be the normal acceptable way to feed our babies. as long as fomula companies are allowed to spew their propaganda ff will still be more acceptable than bf.

Lisa wife to Ronne and mom to 4 kids ,Thomas 4/92, Amanda 9/99, Christopher 8/06 & Nathaniel 5/08.
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#125 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 06:56 PM
 
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I nursed my 2nd child with a Lact-Aid and formula exclusively for 6 months (not one bottle!). We aren't the stay at home type and we were on the go A LOT when she was nursing. Plus, she was an every 2 hour eater (yes, even with formula!) so I always felt like I had her on my breast. There were MANY MANY instances when I was around other moms who were nursing and would give me the thumbs up look of approval. I also had a few people approach me and say "Your baby is beautiful" and actually play with her hand or touch her head WHILE I was nursing her (she would sometimes break the latch and getting her latched with the LA was a PITA!!!), but I forged on as difficult as those 6 months were. On the flip side, I can't even begin to say how many dirty looks I get from people when I'm bottle nursing. I had a woman at the park say to me, "Oh, you're not nursing her?" and give me a really dirty/shocked look. Sometimes I say we adopted and sometimes I just simply said, "No." I was in a AP mom's group when I was a first time new mama and was constantly made to feel like I was not a "real mom" with comments such as, "Oh, that's so sad you'll never know what it's like to nourish a baby with your own milk" and "But she looks really healthy" and "I am just too lazy to fix formula" and they'd come wearing shirts that said, "I make milk, what's your superpower?" It was just offensive to me.

Anyway, my point is that I got WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more dirty looks and nasty comments when I used a bottle and formula.

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#126 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 07:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pookel View Post
Since it didn't get missed, and you apparently missed my post which addressed that issue, I'll repeat myself:
I read what you wrote and it didn't address the question I asked. I asked you to point me in the direction of a reputable publication that said formula is poison or mothers that feed are generally a lazy group or anything else to support what you said in your counterpoint to this statement you chose from my post:
Quote:
FFers may feel as though other mothers who are breastfeeding hold them in some kind of contempt, but they will never feel public humiliation in the form of newspaper articles citing the reasons they shouldn't feed in public
You answered:
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No - instead they feel public humiliation in the form of newspaper articles citing the reasons they shouldn't formula feed AT ALL. How is that better?
That's what I'm asking for. Links to those newspaper articles. Because I've never seen one about "formula feeding should not be done in public" or "women shouldn't formula feed AT ALL." I genuinely want to review some because, quoting myself again,
Quote:
I think dispelling myths about formula is just as important to lactivism as reporting the truths
.

I understand how you feel you've been treated by the people around you but I disagree that the U.S. culture, as a whole, accepts breastfeeding as what it is worth. I think the proof is in statistics, as well as discussions of whether or not it should be done in public.
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#127 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 07:22 PM
 
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{ they'd come wearing shirts that said, "I make milk, what's your superpower?" It was just offensive to me. }

BcBD, i totally feel for you...and i know your personal history with how hard to tried to relactate, but it isn't (and i say this with out any attitude behind it) anyone who is able to nurse their babies fault, right? and those mama's have a right to feel proud of their BF experience, as long as they don't make you feel bad by saying cruel things...
i mean, i certainly can't wear a a bikini these days, but i don't feel like anyone who is wearing one in front of me is doing so to make me feel bad...unless they say: look how cool i am cause i never had a baby and my stomach is rock hard...then i would punch them . i know that bikinis and the ability to nurse are quite different, but i think you get my drift.
no one has a right to make you feel bad...but try not to take t-shirts personally.
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#128 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 07:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BCFD View Post
I nursed my 2nd child with a Lact-Aid and formula exclusively for 6 months (not one bottle!). We aren't the stay at home type and we were on the go A LOT when she was nursing. Plus, she was an every 2 hour eater (yes, even with formula!) so I always felt like I had her on my breast. There were MANY MANY instances when I was around other moms who were nursing and would give me the thumbs up look of approval. I also had a few people approach me and say "Your baby is beautiful" and actually play with her hand or touch her head WHILE I was nursing her (she would sometimes break the latch and getting her latched with the LA was a PITA!!!), but I forged on as difficult as those 6 months were. On the flip side, I can't even begin to say how many dirty looks I get from people when I'm bottle nursing. I had a woman at the park say to me, "Oh, you're not nursing her?" and give me a really dirty/shocked look. Sometimes I say we adopted and sometimes I just simply said, "No." I was in a AP mom's group when I was a first time new mama and was constantly made to feel like I was not a "real mom" with comments such as, "Oh, that's so sad you'll never know what it's like to nourish a baby with your own milk" and "But she looks really healthy" and "I am just too lazy to fix formula" and they'd come wearing shirts that said, "I make milk, what's your superpower?" It was just offensive to me.

Anyway, my point is that I got WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more dirty looks and nasty comments when I used a bottle and formula.
I have to say, I think you're amazing. Even trying to relactate is awesome, but using a lact-aid with formula for 6 months!?! That just goes above above and beyond. Seriously. You are a superhero.
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#129 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 08:14 PM
 
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I understand that there is some misunderstandings between ff and bf'ers. : Just as some mothers who ff think mothers who bf are gross, some who bf think mothers who ff are inadequate, even if they don't realize it. It's prejudice, and it works both ways. We need to realize this. Dirty looks to a mom who is ff is just as unnacceptable as dirty looks to a mom who is NIP, and it hurts. I think that to be a stronger lactivist we need to consider the way we portray our messages, as those of encouragement and support for bf and not judgement and shame against ff.
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#130 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 08:48 PM
 
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My 2 cents on this is

1. I am a lactivist, I am against formula as it is used in our society and how it is manufactured. This does not mean I am against the mothers that use it.

2. Just as I cannot change the fact that formula is everywhere, no one is going to change the fact that lactivists shirts and views are becoming more popular.

3. people unfamilar with bfing may respond badly to nip, people against formula may respond poorly to ffip.

so, just for sanity sake, lactivists need to learn to NOT personalize excessive formula use, and ff moms need to NOT personalize lactivist tshirts and views.

NO ONES comments, views, words, stares or reactions can MAKE YOU feel a certain way... YOUR INTERNAL fears, guilt, sadness, etc. MAKE you react a certain way to certain triggers.

My fear and anxiety made me FEEL nauseous while NIP.... not others COMMENTS, STARES. Those things were out of my control, I had to learn to get to a point where I WAS MORE CONFIDENT and prepared. Not the other way around. BOTTOM LINE.... its no one elses job to make me feel more comfortable NIP.... and its no one elses job to make another feel more comfortable about their choices... that all comes from WITHIN.

~jen~ )O( mama to k 07/05 o 5/08 and c 12/09
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#131 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 09:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Clarinet View Post
I read what you wrote and it didn't address the question I asked. I asked you to point me in the direction of a reputable publication that said formula is poison or mothers that feed are generally a lazy group
Uh, none of which I said, so why would I want to "back it up"?

[quote]
You answered:
Quote:
No - instead they feel public humiliation in the form of newspaper articles citing the reasons they shouldn't formula feed AT ALL. How is that better?
Quote:
That's what I'm asking for. Links to those newspaper articles. Because I've never seen one about "formula feeding should not be done in public" or "women shouldn't formula feed AT ALL."
When I talked about the reasons they shouldn't formula feed at all, I was referring to the scientific fact that breastmilk is better, and the fact that that's widely referred to in articles. I *thought* I had made this clear by now. I don't know how else to explain it to you, but I'm tired of running around in circles on this one.
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#132 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 09:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by bellymama View Post
{ they'd come wearing shirts that said, "I make milk, what's your superpower?" It was just offensive to me. }

BcBD, i totally feel for you...and i know your personal history with how hard to tried to relactate, but it isn't (and i say this with out any attitude behind it) anyone who is able to nurse their babies fault, right? and those mama's have a right to feel proud of their BF experience, as long as they don't make you feel bad by saying cruel things...
It depends, though, doesn't it, on why they were wearing those shirts? Maybe they just felt proud and enjoyed having a mom's group to wear them to ... or maybe they saw her bottle-feeding and decided to take it upon themselves to "educate" her by making a point of wearing those shirts in front of her. I can see how that kind of attitude would be offensive.
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#133 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 09:35 PM
 
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I wear lots of activist shirts (the I make milk one, "Foreskin is not a birth defect" "May the foreskin be with you!" etcetc) and I do that to help spark convo and make people think and talk about subjects I feel need to be "out there" more. I do wear them to moms groups meetings and playgroups, AP and mainstream. I don't think it's fair to to use these Tshirts against moms and imply that they even may be doing it to spite one person.

And I dont see where complaining about lactivists Tshirts has a place on a lactivist forum (unless those Tshirts are way over the top, which I am not seeing here).

(post directed at first person who mentioned this, dont feel like going back and trying to find the quote )

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#134 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 09:37 PM
 
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My 2 cents on this is

1. I am a lactivist, I am against formula as it is used in our society and how it is manufactured. This does not mean I am against the mothers that use it.

2. Just as I cannot change the fact that formula is everywhere, no one is going to change the fact that lactivists shirts and views are becoming more popular.

3. people unfamilar with bfing may respond badly to nip, people against formula may respond poorly to ffip.

so, just for sanity sake, lactivists need to learn to NOT personalize excessive formula use, and ff moms need to NOT personalize lactivist tshirts and views.

NO ONES comments, views, words, stares or reactions can MAKE YOU feel a certain way... YOUR INTERNAL fears, guilt, sadness, etc. MAKE you react a certain way to certain triggers.

My fear and anxiety made me FEEL nauseous while NIP.... not others COMMENTS, STARES. Those things were out of my control, I had to learn to get to a point where I WAS MORE CONFIDENT and prepared. Not the other way around. BOTTOM LINE.... its no one elses job to make me feel more comfortable NIP.... and its no one elses job to make another feel more comfortable about their choices... that all comes from WITHIN.
I agree with this.


If we sit here arguing about which Tshirt is worn for the wrong reason and which breastfeeding article is used this way or that or what happens on other boards...it's just getting stuck in the mud.

"Parents are simply trustees; they do not own the bodies of their children"-Norm Cohen  Martial arts instructor intactlact.gifhomebirth.jpgnak.gif and mom to 4: DD1 (1/05) DS (7/06) DD2 (5/08) DD3 (2/11)
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#135 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 10:09 PM
 
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When I talked about the reasons they shouldn't formula feed at all, I was referring to the scientific fact that breastmilk is better, and the fact that that's widely referred to in articles. I *thought* I had made this clear by now. I don't know how else to explain it to you, but I'm tired of running around in circles on this one.

OK. I see what you mean, now. We're talking about two different things. I'm inquiring about the general public, reputable newspapers, reputable online media and other discussions about "allowing" nursing in public, covering so as to not offend others and negative opinions about extended nursing versus negative formula feeding articles. I'm not asking for scientific facts that breastmilk is basic. I get that. The general public probably doesn't spend a great deal of time on scientific articles, but the majority is exposed to some form of media - television, newspapers, entertainment on the internet - and the majority of negativity is towards breastfeeding. Even the latest onslaught of scientific articles shown on popular news sources are dispelling the better traits of breastmilk.

My point is, I'm trying to discuss opinions. You are discussing facts. I'm sorry you got flack for formula feeding. But I still think the majority of opinions of the general population support formula feeding over breastfeeding or are apathetic towards both.
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#136 of 369 Old 05-21-2007, 11:45 PM
 
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blek on the post i'm trying to delete lol

familybed1.gifnovaxnocirc.gif nut.gifMommy to my amazing 6 yr old dd, we homeschool.gif, and  27 weeks belly.gifpuke.gifand have been sick the whole time so far, grrrrr!!!!!!!

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#137 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 12:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pookel View Post
It depends, though, doesn't it, on why they were wearing those shirts? Maybe they just felt proud and enjoyed having a mom's group to wear them to ... or maybe they saw her bottle-feeding and decided to take it upon themselves to "educate" her by making a point of wearing those shirts in front of her. I can see how that kind of attitude would be offensive.
totally...and she probably could tell if they were being self righteous...just in general, i like that shirt, and other shirts like it, but i've never thought of wearing them to "educate" anyone.
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#138 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 12:50 AM
 
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Here is my opinion for what it is worth....

1. I believe every woman has the right to NIP no matter where she is

2. BREAST MILK IS BETTER THAN FORMULA....

3. I think every woman should be encouraged and have the information about BF at her fingertips.

4. Formula should never be pushed on someone


But what I don't get is there are literally hundreds of articles, books about how the "breast is the best" for you child. In fact some of the books I have seen, go so far as to call FF "detachment parenting". Yes, I know women who NIP have been asked to leave certain places, and venues. But you've never not been able to join a mothers playgroup, I bet because of the way you feed your child.Or gone into a kids store (natural) and when the sales help see you get out of bottle of formula, ignore you for the rest of the time that you're in there. Now if this had happened to a BF mother she would of had tons of support, but because its a FF, somehow in the media and forums such as this its not seen as a big deal.

Yes lactivitism is about spreading awareness for BF, but it should also be understanding that there are times when formula is "good" and has to be used. I would love to see more lactivists say that publicly.

I feel that as a person, I am very strong in who I am and what I believe. But after giving birth and now being responsible for a new human life and on top of that PPD, I am sorry but words will hurt no matter how "ok" I am with myself.
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#139 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 01:41 AM
 
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Whne the statistics show that women are fully educated about BFing, when more than 40% BF past the first few weeks, when TV shows and movies show babies BFing, then I will believe that it is harder to FF in our society.
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#140 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 02:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SarahLi View Post
I understand that there is some misunderstandings between ff and bf'ers. : Just as some mothers who ff think mothers who bf are gross, some who bf think mothers who ff are inadequate, even if they don't realize it. It's prejudice, and it works both ways. We need to realize this. Dirty looks to a mom who is ff is just as unnacceptable as dirty looks to a mom who is NIP, and it hurts. I think that to be a stronger lactivist we need to consider the way we portray our messages, as those of encouragement and support for bf and not judgement and shame against ff.
DITTO. Exactly.

No one is *pursuaded* by shame & judgement...rather encouragement & understanding! To educate in a pursuasive manner you must be thoughtful & considerate!
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#141 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 05:04 AM
 
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so everyone's talking about the shirts---I LOVE THE BFING SHIRTS!---i do not wear them to step on anyones toes or to make them feel bad for ffing---i know that some people cannot bfeed---i couldn't bf my first born i guess that is why i am sooooooo proud to bf my other children i fealt and still feel a since of failure for not bf the first and i try to remember that when i see people ff in public---but in the back of my mind i always wonder why? even though i don't ask---but i wonder why because i want to help them i cant help but think that maybe they wanted to bf as badly as i did and didn't because of misinformation or bad bf teachers---but i live ina community where i have ONCE in my life seen someone NIP and have constantly come into to bad comments from strangers for NIP---so sometimes i feel also why can't lactivists say something---if all these other people want to criticize me for NIP why shouldn't i be able to ask people why they ff?
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#142 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 06:50 AM
 
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I'm going to toss this out here and see what y'all think.

1) Yes, this is a lactivism board, and it does seem a bit jarring at first glance that we might be challenged here to consider our words carefully, especially how they might strike mothers who formula feed. Except -- lactivism, to have any point at all (IMHO) HAS to be about what works, in real life, in a society where formula feeding is the norm. If our statements here on MDC's lactivism board hurt and anger women who are ALREADY sympathetic with the cause of lactivism, what hope do we possibly have of reaching the mothers who think breastfeeding is unimportant or icky?

Lactivism (again IMHO) is a perfect example of the maxim "Speak the truth in love."

This work requires more than being right. We must also be kind and loving, or we do more harm than good, both to "the cause" and to actual mothers. Yes -- really! If someone tells you that you piss her off or hurt her feelings, why not take her at her word and look at that? What's it gonna cost you to do that? It's a valuable learning opportunity, here where you actually are not going to be required to examine your lactivist message, and therefore are freed to look instead at your delivery of it.

2) The bulk of this very long thread has been mostly occupied with statements that describe a poster's own personal experiences and then generalize from that. Stuff along the lines of, "I was discriminated against for BF/FF [pick one, they both work here!] and so obviously our society is hardest on BF/FF moms." This is a fundamentally flawed argument. Regardless of whether you BF or FF, your particular experiences may or may not have any correlation at all to what is typical, average, widespread, or normal in the way mothers are treated in this country. It's a VERY big country, for one thing, with marked differences in acceptance and support for BF in different regions. And in a given town or city, there may be striking differences from one neighborhood to the next, based on factors like class and ethnicity. Try to think beyond your own anecdotal experience and be more open to serious consideration of the big picture. This can require some willingness to set aside your own "ego" or to hold two conflicting ideas as simultaneously true. This can be hard! But it's a really good thinking exercise, because it opens up the door to getting behind the eyes of people who in whatever way are different from you -- and that is the first step towards understanding.

3) My last observation is that there has been a real resistance in this discussion to considering structural factors in the question of who is disadvantaged and who is advantaged. Most of this thread has been at the "Did too!/Did not!" level of discussion. Any serious approach to lactivism (again IMHO) must move beyond the actions and statements of the individual people you come into contact with to look at the institutions and other impersonal forces that shape the landscape of infant feeding practices in this society and across the globe. At the end of the day, getting those structures (hospital practices, formula company marketing, employment laws, etc.) to stop sabotaging breastfeeding is going to have immensely more impact than what any of us say to each other on a message board. So let's remember who/what the most important target of lactivism is: the powers and principalities, my friends. Not each other.
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#143 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 11:19 AM
 
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I need to read before I post, don't know how to delete this

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Here is my opinion for what it is worth....

1. I believe every woman has the right to NIP no matter where she is

2. BREAST MILK IS BETTER THAN FORMULA....

3. I think every woman should be encouraged and have the information about BF at her fingertips.

4. Formula should never be pushed on someone


But what I don't get is there are literally hundreds of articles, books about how the "breast is the best" for you child. In fact some of the books I have seen, go so far as to call FF "detachment parenting". Yes, I know women who NIP have been asked to leave certain places, and venues. But you've never not been able to join a mothers playgroup, I bet because of the way you feed your child.Or gone into a kids store (natural) and when the sales help see you get out of bottle of formula, ignore you for the rest of the time that you're in there. Now if this had happened to a BF mother she would of had tons of support, but because its a FF, somehow in the media and forums such as this its not seen as a big deal.

Yes lactivitism is about spreading awareness for BF, but it should also be understanding that there are times when formula is "good" and has to be used. I would love to see more lactivists say that publicly.

I feel that as a person, I am very strong in who I am and what I believe. But after giving birth and now being responsible for a new human life and on top of that PPD, I am sorry but words will hurt no matter how "ok" I am with myself.
Great post! This reminds me of something similar. There is a "mothers support network" here in my city and it has an attached 2nd hand baby store that sells slings, feminie hygiene products, cloth diapers, etc.. They bill themselves and being "helpful" to "mothers". But I have heard a little girl in there asking why a bottle feeding mother was "feeding her baby poison". I'm sure that mother was shocked beyond belief. I know for a fact that if you bottle feed your baby in the "support group area" they will not welcome you at all. They are the crunchy, granola type AP moms and I felt VERY uncomfortable going in there and bottle feeding my baby. When I was a 1st time mommy to my (adopted) baby I was looking for support (and maybe to show my precious little one off? LOL!) They are called "mothers support network" afterall...not "biological moms who BF support group". All of their workshops that they hold (and they do a lot of advertising in local baby mags!) are about pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding. I wrote to the owner and asked her to include some workshops on adoption, gay/lesbian parenting, and being a foster care parent and years later they still are all about biology. Nice "support" group. :::sigh::::

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#145 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 01:46 PM
 
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{ they'd come wearing shirts that said, "I make milk, what's your superpower?" It was just offensive to me. }

BcBD, i totally feel for you...and i know your personal history with how hard to tried to relactate, but it isn't (and i say this with out any attitude behind it) anyone who is able to nurse their babies fault, right? and those mama's have a right to feel proud of their BF experience, as long as they don't make you feel bad by saying cruel things...
i mean, i certainly can't wear a a bikini these days, but i don't feel like anyone who is wearing one in front of me is doing so to make me feel bad...unless they say: look how cool i am cause i never had a baby and my stomach is rock hard...then i would punch them . i know that bikinis and the ability to nurse are quite different, but i think you get my drift.
no one has a right to make you feel bad...but try not to take t-shirts personally.
OMG! I support BF'ing and just because I can't I certainly do not fault anybody!!! Hey, I wanted to be a pro snowboarder, too, but I wasn't. But I love me some Shaun White!! I follow snowboarding in the winter like a cult because I love it. I go to "Boarding For Breast Cancer" because I support the cause. Just because I didn't turn pro doesn't mean I can't like snowboarding anymore!! I know what you are saying and I'm not offended, but I'm here to tell you that this is *NOT* the case.

I think the reason I took those comments and t-shirts and bumper stickers personally is because those moms knew that it broke my heart to bottle/ff feed. They knew of my IF struggles (4 years and $40,000 + with multiple surgeries, ectopic, miscarriage, and chemical....it was BRUTAL!). They knew how much I worship my daughter and how proud I am of her adoption. Yet they chose to basically rub this in my face. They did it on their blogs, too. One woman actually put on her blog "biological babies are the best - birth and breastfeeding RULE!" Now, she was a young mom (about 22), single, and very immature. But we were in a little disagreement and she purposely chose those words to put on her blog to hurt me. This is a hard core BF'ing AP mom. And it hurt. It's one thing to be proud about something and to advocate for it, but it's another thing to purposely go out of your way to try to make somebody feel bad. I no longer belong to that AP moms group and they disbanded anyway.

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#146 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 01:48 PM
 
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And I dont see where complaining about lactivists Tshirts has a place on a lactivist forum (unless those Tshirts are way over the top, which I am not seeing here).
Not sure if this was directed at me (I brought up the t-shirts). I'm not complaining about lactivist t-shirts. I'm complaining about how these women USED them to hurt my feelings. See the post above that explains a little something about the type of women that I was dealing with.

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#147 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 01:49 PM
 
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OFF TOPIC, but had to mention: By the way, I have a tshirt that says "We're both the REAL mother" and I wear it to WIC almost every time I go there because those women still to this day ask us, "Who is their mother?" DUH!

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#148 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 01:51 PM
 
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In your original post on the issue you didn't say that they wrote mean things about you in blogs and wore them just to get to you (you said you thought they did but offered nothing but that- of course people are gonna say "how do you know?").

by the way, a post a while back said that moms her attack random FF moms by posting about events that happen. Isn't this the same thing?

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#149 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 02:04 PM
 
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In your original post on the issue you didn't say that they wrote mean things about you in blogs and wore them just to get to you (you said you thought they did but offered nothing but that- of course people are gonna say "how do you know?").

by the way, a post a while back said that moms her attack random FF moms by posting about events that happen. Isn't this the same thing?
In my original post I didn't feel the need to bring up the blog thing. The blog thing happened YEARS after I originally joined the group. It's a long story. While I was involved with the group I don't know why I tortured myself with their antics, but I felt isolated and belonging to this group got me out of the house. We had EVERYTHING in common except the BF'ing part of "AP". I baby wear, co-sleep, etc. and I at least had that much. Mainstream mom groups tend to put their babies in cribs and use strollers everywhere. So, I overlooked a lot of stuff to feel a part of that group. Now, as an older, THIRD time mom I know better. There was another mom in this group that just recently told me that she would sometimes leave our little group meet ups in tears (not due to breastfeeding issues, but due to other issues). So, it wasn't just me imagining this all happened.

Jeez, I'm not attacking anybody!!! I'm simply just giving examples of what has happened to me in real life (just like a few other moms here have done).

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#150 of 369 Old 05-22-2007, 02:06 PM
 
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I'm just saying- I questioned the tshirt thing (as did lots of people i think) becuase you just stated it that these women wore shirts to get you. Lots of us wear shirts like this and don't want it being seen as though we are attacking with them.

had you said they attacked you on blogs and basically admitted to weasring them to get you, well I would have just dismissed those people as wackos (as they rightly seem to be) and not taken it as a questioning of the tshirts in general.

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