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#1 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not trying to be snarky or anything but I was thinking....

We (ok many of us) get very offended seeing bottles/formula in entertainment/commercials/kids programming. Are mainstream or FFer's offended by seeing/hearing about/insinuating about bfing in the same circumstances?

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#2 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 03:55 PM
 
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I am sure that some are and some are not.

I would guess that if they have any guilt they are offended.

Of course someone that tried and was unable to bf is probably very sad also.
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#3 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 03:56 PM
 
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If most main stream messageboards are any indication, yes they are very offended. Many will go into a rant about the numerous reasons they weren't able to breastfeed and that they shouldn't be made feel bad because they chose to formulafeed.

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#4 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 03:57 PM
 
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Not trying to derail but as an adoptive mother I have been offeneded from certain posts that I have read here on MDC, I'm sure it goes both ways.
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#5 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 04:04 PM
 
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I'm an FF'er. Not by "choice" - I had a breast reduction and have so far been unsuccessful at bf'ing my children. But, I still formula feed, so I still qualify!

And I can say that, initially, this board offended me horribly. I found some of the responses to be hurtful and difficult to understand. FOR MY FAMILY, bottles are a norm. So it's taken me a long time to appreciate lactivisim, and women who so strongly promote long-term/extended breastfeeding. I do still "get my dander up" at times when I read posts that, in my opinion, villify or denigrate a woman's choice to ff her child. I believe that it is quite true that many women really do just do what they think is easier, or have misinformation that prevents them from successfully breastfeeding. I do also believe that many other women don't have the same ideals and motivations that many women on this board do.

I also realize that the OP was was bout ff'ing women being offended by bf'ing references. To respond to that - NO. In fact, I'm jealous. I envy all of you. I'd love to be part of what looks from the outside to be the Inner Sanctum of Motherhood. I'd walk on hot coals to feed my babies with my own milk.
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#6 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 04:23 PM
 
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I'm all for promoting BF in "ordinary" circumstances. I think most of the FFers here didn't do so by choice (or if they did it was some time ago) and aren't in favour of FF'ing as the default. Occasionally someone can get a little too lactageeky (like Princess Fiona... I bet they just wanted to make zucchini bottles and green milk). But that's certainly not insulting.

The only posts I've ever found insulting were ones making lazy generalisations about FF'ers (mostly not on MDC actually) and some of the extremist "formula is poison" posts, like in the other thread. For mothers like me who were forced to FF (and yeah, bdavis--I have the same feeling--I want to pin a sign saying "I tried to BF, but I have IGT!" to my chest. But maybe that's TMI ) it's already hurtful enough that we weren't able to give our babies the best--to be told that the stuff we have to use is poison is sometimes more than I can take.

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#7 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 04:47 PM
 
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Those that FF because they were unable to BF probably would not be offended. I do know some IRL moms who are grossed out by bfing and they probably would be offended.

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#8 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 05:57 PM
 
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Other than someone having some sort of sexual hangup with BFing (OMG naked boob...put that away) I can't really imagine how someone would be offended by the act of BFing in itself.

I think most of it just comes from being defensive about the choice to FF. Some moms choose to because of extrodinary circumstances, some were probably able to BF and just didn't have the proper support, and some just don't want to BF period. But in any situation people tend to get defensive when they are told they are doing they are not doing the best thing for their child.

I work with new moms on a daily basis. Some choose to BF and some don't. Some give (what I deem to be) pretty lame reasons for not doing it. Lame as those reasons may seem to me, deep down I don't really know that person and her reasons for not BFing. If I became offended every time someone chose not to BF I would be one miserable person.

When I'm at work, I don't bash formula in order to promote BFing. I try not to talk about it at all. I just talk about how great BM is for the baby and all the different things it has in it, that formula lacks. Even when mama's having a hard time BFing. I'm not the nurse that runs to get a bottle at the first sign of trouble and says that formula is "just as good". But when mom decides she wants to FF I don't say "Formula is bad/not good/second best" I just try to educate and offer as much support as I can. But at the end of the day mom's going to do what she wants to do.
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#9 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 06:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ibbit View Post
If most main stream messageboards are any indication, yes they are very offended. Many will go into a rant about the numerous reasons they weren't able to breastfeed and that they shouldn't be made feel bad because they chose to formulafeed.
that happens here too

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#10 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 06:16 PM
 
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There's an old saying that offense is taken, not given, so it is wise to practise portion control.
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#11 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 06:32 PM
 
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Women who have to formula feed shouldn't be offended by breastfeeding. Women who choose to formula feed...Frankly, I don't care if they're offended. I'm more than sick of being expected to nod and smile when a woman chooses to give her child what is second-best in the name of personal choice. I am honestly getting very wary of this board. I well know the intent is not to denigrate women, nor do I want that, but I do not welcome the sudden influx of "formula is just fine" posts. (Not that I have to give a welcome, but that's not the point.) Breastfeeding is not only best, it is the standard, and that is what Mothering the magazine has always promoted. One of the main reasons I and many others come to these boards is so that we don't have to constantly defend ourselves against mainstream attitudes and practices.

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#12 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 06:40 PM
 
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#13 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:09 PM
 
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Not trying to derail but as an adoptive mother I have been offeneded from certain posts that I have read here on MDC, I'm sure it goes both ways.
Amen!! I'm not offended at all by bf'ing mothers and I support them 110%. However, when I read this board sometimes I'm just shocked at how judgemental some women are. Also, as an adoptive mother it's very HURTFUL to read some of the things that moms say here about formula. We don't have a choice in our methods of feeding, so somebody seeing me on a park bench from this forum would quickly jump to conclusions about me. We all have opinions about raising children and what's best for them, but in the end I feel that it's nobody's business but my own and vice versa.

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#14 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ewp11100 View Post
I'm not trying to be snarky or anything but I was thinking....

We (ok many of us) get very offended seeing bottles/formula in entertainment/commercials/kids programming. Are mainstream or FFer's offended by seeing/hearing about/insinuating about bfing in the same circumstances?
If you're asking whether I get upset/offended when I see a woman on tv,in public, etc breastfeeding then answer is no, of course not! I too agree that its a beautiful and wonderful thing and that its the BEST THING FOR THE BABY.

But being someone who FF their baby because I was on strong medications that injure or kill my son, I had no other choice. What annoys me more than anything though is that women who BF expect and SHOULD have the right to nurse in public without any dirty looks, comments etc. So shouldn't women who FF be granted the same courtsey?

I've seen quite a number of times the snarky comments made to women who FF in public. But somehow its okay because they FF, but if it was a woman who was NIP, then it would be a horrible travesty.
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#15 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:11 PM
 
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In fact, I'm jealous. I envy all of you. I'd love to be part of what looks from the outside to be the Inner Sanctum of Motherhood. I'd walk on hot coals to feed my babies with my own milk.
I couldn't have said it better. If I could only breastfeed my child! What a privilege!! And I admit, I am still offended horribly some some comments here. Oh well....sometimes you just gotta roll with the punches.

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#16 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sagesgirl View Post
Women who have to formula feed shouldn't be offended by breastfeeding. Women who choose to formula feed...Frankly, I don't care if they're offended. I'm more than sick of being expected to nod and smile when a woman chooses to give her child what is second-best in the name of personal choice. I am honestly getting very wary of this board. I well know the intent is not to denigrate women, nor do I want that, but I do not welcome the sudden influx of "formula is just fine" posts. (Not that I have to give a welcome, but that's not the point.) Breastfeeding is not only best, it is the standard, and that is what Mothering the magazine has always promoted. One of the main reasons I and many others come to these boards is so that we don't have to constantly defend ourselves against mainstream attitudes and practices.
Well, I certainly can understand and appreciate lactivism, but not at the expense of downright being judgemental of FF'ing moms. Why can't lactivists just worry about their own children? That's not a mean statement/question, it's just something that I can't understand about lactivists. It's one thing to promote and support breastfeeding mothers. It's another thing to make comments like "formula is poison" to ANY mother. I really believe that all mothers knows breastmilk is best. But it's none of my business as to why they are using it.

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#17 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:29 PM
 
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I don't think I've ever met anyone who was offended by seeing portrayals of breastfeeding. Either they're a myth, or they just aren't the kind of people I know.

Now, if you're talking about people being offended by dirty looks, nasty comments, and general disrespect from some people who call themselves lactivists ... that's a whole different story.
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#18 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:49 PM
 
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I don't think I've ever met anyone who was offended by seeing portrayals of breastfeeding. Either they're a myth, or they just aren't the kind of people I know.
Obviously it isnt a myth. Myspace and Livejournal have deleted hundreds of breastfeeding pictures. We have nurse-ins because nursing mothers are being kicked out of publics places. Sure, you may not know them personally, but it is far from a myth.
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#19 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:54 PM
 
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Well, I certainly can understand and appreciate lactivism, but not at the expense of downright being judgemental of FF'ing moms. Why can't lactivists just worry about their own children? That's not a mean statement/question, it's just something that I can't understand about lactivists. It's one thing to promote and support breastfeeding mothers. It's another thing to make comments like "formula is poison" to ANY mother. I really believe that all mothers knows breastmilk is best. But it's none of my business as to why they are using it.
When somebody is choosing to do something that threatens the health and well-being of a child, its very hard not to be judgemental, dont ya think? I mean, if you saw a pregnant woman drinking or smoking, what would you think? And what did you all think of Britney Spears driving with her son on her lap? We have enough scientific evidence that proves the risks to formula feeding. I know that not everybody has a choice, though, and that absolutely breaks my heart. I feel so bad for the baby, even when it wasnt the mothers choice. I feel so bad for the mother: either she couldnt breastfeed, or she didnt have the knowledge and support to do so. Yea, its none of the my business, but its still sad.
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#20 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 07:59 PM
 
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No, not at all. i am not ffing by choice, and know that breastmilk is like liquid gold. Easier for baby to digest, perfect food for baby.

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#21 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 08:08 PM
 
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If no one is offended by portrayals of breastfeeding, or breastfeeding in general, then please explain to all of the mothers who have been asked to leave a public space because they are breastfeeding their child, why exactly they were asked to leave?

I'm with the posters who are tired of having to apologize for making strong statements on the LACTIVISM board. The assumption seems to be that if a lactivist is venting frustrations or ideological thoughts to another lactivist, then she must also present this strong opinion to others. This is rarely the case! It is, believe it or not, perfectly possible to be a rabid, ranting lactivist here, and a supportive, helpful, caring person in general. Every one needs a safe place to vent!!!

To my knowledge, people here on the lactivism board are not running over to the adpotion board, or the low supply board and posting anti-formula rants or trying to convince any of those moms that they should have breastfed. That would be ridiculus, hurtful, rude, and counter productive.

Speaking for myself, I KNOW that there are moms who tried desperately to breastfeed and could not. I KNOW that they NEED formula at this point. I think any attempt at nursing or relactation is courageous, honorable, and admirable. I can totally empathize with any mother whose heart is broken that they were honestly, truthfully, UNABLE to breastfeed.

But let's be HONEST here. When I come to complain about the ignorance about breastfeeding or the despicable marketing tactics of formula companies, I'M NOT MAKING PERSONAL JUDGEMENTS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS!!! And I don't think anyone else is either! Even if it may seem so when a post is about an acquaintance who stoped nursing after a few days. Those posts, to me, seem more about the lactivist trying to work out her own feelings on the subject, so that she can go forward and be supportive of her friend or acquantance as a mother, breastfeeding or not.
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#22 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 08:15 PM
 
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i think BM is best, and i wonder why so many FF, but i usually don't think they suck as moms or people because they choose (or don't choose, as in BCBD's case) to FF...
my main goal as a lactivist is to make sure that BFing is allowed, respected and no longer seen as "innappropriate" if done in public. i want to educate people about the benefits of BM, but i also don't want to become what i hate, which is someone who hates on other people. the reason i get so angry as a lactivist is because non-bFer's try to hate on NIP, or EBF or BF in general...so i don't want to be that way to FF, because you teach more with love and understanding than judgement.
in my heart of hearts, i think people who FF who don't have to are kind of weird, because i love to BF...but i know that instead of alienating people by getting on my soapbox and attacking FF, i would rather hear why they BF, find out how they were raised, how they view their bodies, how their family and friends are, how their birth experience and after care was...and other reasons why FF is something they have chosen to do...
we talk a lot about gentle discipline with our children, and i think that the best way to teach people is through love and understanding...reaching out rather than condemning. that's hard, and i am not saying i always do it.
that's the end of my deep thoughts for the day
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#23 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 08:17 PM
 
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i think BM is best, and i wonder why so many FF, but i usually don't think they suck as moms or people because they choose (or don't choose, as in BCBD's case) to FF...
my main goal as a lactivist is to make sure that BFing is allowed, respected and no longer seen as "innappropriate" if done in public. i want to educate people about the benefits of BM, but i also don't want to become what i hate, which is someone who hates on other people. the reason i get so angry as a lactivist is because non-bFer's try to hate on NIP, or EBF or BF in general...so i don't want to be that way to FF, because you teach more with love and understanding than judgement.
in my heart of hearts, i think people who FF who don't have to are kind of weird, because i love to BF...but i know that instead of alienating people by getting on my soapbox and attacking FF, i would rather hear why they BF, find out how they were raised, how they view their bodies, how their family and friends are, how their birth experience and after care was...and other reasons why FF is something they have chosen to do...
we talk a lot about gentle discipline with our children, and i think that the best way to teach people is through love and understanding...reaching out rather than condemning. that's hard, and i am not saying i always do it.
that's the end of my deep thoughts for the day
good post!
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#24 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 08:27 PM
 
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If no one is offended by portrayals of breastfeeding, or breastfeeding in general, then please explain to all of the mothers who have been asked to leave a public space because they are breastfeeding their child, why exactly they were asked to leave?

I'm with the posters who are tired of having to apologize for making strong statements on the LACTIVISM board. The assumption seems to be that if a lactivist is venting frustrations or ideological thoughts to another lactivist, then she must also present this strong opinion to others. This is rarely the case! It is, believe it or not, perfectly possible to be a rabid, ranting lactivist here, and a supportive, helpful, caring person in general. Every one needs a safe place to vent!!!

To my knowledge, people here on the lactivism board are not running over to the adpotion board, or the low supply board and posting anti-formula rants or trying to convince any of those moms that they should have breastfed. That would be ridiculus, hurtful, rude, and counter productive.

Speaking for myself, I KNOW that there are moms who tried desperately to breastfeed and could not. I KNOW that they NEED formula at this point. I think any attempt at nursing or relactation is courageous, honorable, and admirable. I can totally empathize with any mother whose heart is broken that they were honestly, truthfully, UNABLE to breastfeed.

But let's be HONEST here. When I come to complain about the ignorance about breastfeeding or the despicable marketing tactics of formula companies, I'M NOT MAKING PERSONAL JUDGEMENTS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS!!! And I don't think anyone else is either! Even if it may seem so when a post is about an acquaintance who stoped nursing after a few days. Those posts, to me, seem more about the lactivist trying to work out her own feelings on the subject, so that she can go forward and be supportive of her friend or acquantance as a mother, breastfeeding or not.

NIP is VERY common where I live. People who are against NIP IMO are just negative people, who for whatever reasons have unrealistic thoughts and views on what is natural and healthy.

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#25 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 08:33 PM
 
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I'm with the posters who are tired of having to apologize for making strong statements on the LACTIVISM board. The assumption seems to be that if a lactivist is venting frustrations or ideological thoughts to another lactivist, then she must also present this strong opinion to others.
bolding mine

ITA

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To my knowledge, people here on the lactivism board are not running over to the adpotion board, or the low supply board and posting anti-formula rants or trying to convince any of those moms that they should have breastfed. That would be ridiculus, hurtful, rude, and counter productive.
These are my thoughts exactly. That is why I post here. I am not going to apologize for my opinions. And my opinions are general, or for my family only. Not for anyone personally.

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#26 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 09:46 PM
 
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If no one is offended by portrayals of breastfeeding, or breastfeeding in general, then please explain to all of the mothers who have been asked to leave a public space because they are breastfeeding their child, why exactly they were asked to leave?
Because you're asking the wrong people. Whether or not we were personally able to BF, everyone on a lactivism board is supportive of it. Go to MainstreamParentingBoard.com and post the same question; I suspect you'll get different responses.

It would be like if I went to one of my Jewish forums and posted asking if people were offended by circumcision. You're not going to get many people saying yes.

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#27 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 09:55 PM
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Not that I'm exactly your run of the mill formula feeder, but no, I'm not. I formula fed after failing to breastfeed (I produced no milk and didn't have access to milk bank). Undiagnosed thyroid issue likely caused it in hindsight, so I still have hope for bf'ing my next. The only time I get offended is when other lactivists who didn't know me assumed that I was just a lazy parent and didn't care to hear WHY I used formula, who didn't think I felt real, honest heartbreak at not being able to develop a bf'ing relationship with my daughter, as I had my heart set on extended breastfeeding when I was pregnant. It did help me seat myself in a non-judgemental attitude towards other moms. I reserve judgement until after I know them and their story.
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#28 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 10:13 PM
 
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As a bit of an outsider here, as I've formula fed my boys and haven't the slightest notion what extended breastfeeding is like for mother OR baby, I want to say that the concept of lactivism is an important one. And the implementation of it - when I read posts about nurse-ins held in response to poor public response to a nip "incident", for example - is a critical one. What happens here, from my perspective, is that the generalized concept is accidentally applied personally.

When I first visited this board, I was terribly hurt. I thought that *I* was being attacked, personally, by every staunch bf advocate on mdc. I perceived judgement for my breast reduction choice, and I got myself quite angry over it. In reality, it's just not that way. Lactivists are angry at the ESTABLISHMENT that promotes ff'ing and prevents/sabotages breastfeeding by every woman in America. They're not angry at ME, or at YOU, for making a choice for your children, regardless of you made that choice. Sometimes, the posts feel personalized. Sometimes, it feels like you're under attack. Well, maybe it hits close to home for you and it's time to evaluate yourself. I've realized how guilty I feel for choosing a breast reduction without really thinking through the consequences, and I'm working through that guilt myself. It took coming here, reading through this forum and other bf forums to learn that about myself.

It's not about ONE PERSON. It's about the generalized YOU. If you're personally offended, you're either reading it wrong or you have something to deal with on your own.
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#29 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 10:20 PM
 
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I have to agree with some of the PPs who have reminded us that this is the lactivism area. I come here because I want to converse with others who think breastmilk is best and make no apologies for it. We have to apologize too many other places than to have to do so on the LACTIVISM board. I personally am not gonna ever be rude to a mom who FFs by no choice of her own and probably not actually rude to a mom who does it by choice, I might kindly speak my mind, but not rudely. But I would, to answer the OP, imagine that by-choice FFers probably are offended by bf as for some they choose to FF because of societal, sexual, etc hang ups about nursing. For instance think about the people you have offended (many who don't even have boobs) because you BF or NIP. It is human nature to find fault in something different and this case is no different I imagine.
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#30 of 369 Old 05-17-2007, 10:30 PM
 
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Personally, I think the LACTIVISM board is the place where people should be MOST concerned about the feelings of formula feeders - because if you're trying to change people's minds about breastfeeding, then understanding their feelings is pretty damn important.

I don't know why so many people seem to think that "lactivism forum" is equivalent to "place where we can hang out and say nasty things about people we disagree with."
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