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#61 of 146 Old 01-16-2008, 04:59 PM
 
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Good post, Amanda.

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#62 of 146 Old 01-16-2008, 05:10 PM
 
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great post amanda, can I have you write my responses from now on...you are much more eloquent than I am.
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#63 of 146 Old 01-16-2008, 06:41 PM
 
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Closed pending review. Thanks for your patience!

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#64 of 146 Old 01-16-2008, 07:11 PM
 
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Reopening. I've had to remove a few posts (and quotes of posts) that violated the User Agreement. Please keep in mind that namecalling--no matter how deserved --is against the User Agreement.

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#65 of 146 Old 01-16-2008, 10:24 PM
 
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I will say I would just wait until she has a baby. I would make her leave the room to give a baby a bottle. Haa!! Haa!! Haa!! She needs to fill the bottle in the bathroom also you don't want your kids seeing that as being normal or ok.
YES! YES!! If this situation still isn't resolved (i.e. by brother and FSIL indicating somehow that they now understand that they were wrong), then when/if FSIL has a baby, DEFINITELY make her cover up or leave the room to bottle feed.

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#66 of 146 Old 01-16-2008, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Actually, my email to my brother was very similar to the one Amanda posted. I was really hoping (even though i was so angry_ that this could be an opportunity for me to share with them the beauty of breastfeeding, but their responses...his phone call, and her email "to move on" only shows me that they don't care to hear me. That's what's so frustrating.
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#67 of 146 Old 01-16-2008, 11:12 PM
 
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If they are being so irrational about this issue, I am sure there are many other issues as well. I would not spend time with them, spend time with other relatives or close friends. There's no reason at all for them to be so unsupportive.
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#68 of 146 Old 01-17-2008, 01:28 AM
 
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Yes a host is suppose to make a person comfortable but it doesn't mean the host has to give into all their rules.
I wasn't aware that some households had rules against babies being fed. Amazing.

I guess I learn something new everyday.

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#69 of 146 Old 01-17-2008, 01:04 PM
 
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It's too bad that both brother and FSIL refuse to accept your mothering choices, and your attempts at reconciliation. Surely the rest of your family will support you, even though they may still have to invite your brother to family gatherings. FSIL seems awfully old-fashioned for an unmarried woman living with a man...=)
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#70 of 146 Old 01-17-2008, 01:12 PM
 
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Forgiveness is a good thing. I think in your heart you can look at her with generosity and realize how wounded they both are from a culture that is anti-mother and anti-child. She is clearly a hurting person who can not relax and is holding a lot in, probably some self-hatred as well. Responding with fear and discomfort to loving mothering is a sign that something is deeply wrong.

BUT, at the same time, while forgiving, you should absolutely not go somewhere where mothers and children are not treated with respect. It is not good for your soul to be in that environment and it is not good for you child's soul. Responding not out of anger, but out of commitment to keeping yourself and you baby in a safe and loving space, I would actually just let them know that you need to not see them until you have their full love and support which includes not shaming or alienating you for feeding your baby.
That was beautiful.
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#71 of 146 Old 01-18-2008, 01:52 PM
 
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Forgiveness is a good thing. I think in your heart you can look at her with generosity and realize how wounded they both are from a culture that is anti-mother and anti-child. She is clearly a hurting person who can not relax and is holding a lot in, probably some self-hatred as well. Responding with fear and discomfort to loving mothering is a sign that something is deeply wrong.

BUT, at the same time, while forgiving, you should absolutely not go somewhere where mothers and children are not treated with respect. It is not good for your soul to be in that environment and it is not good for you child's soul. Responding not out of anger, but out of commitment to keeping yourself and you baby in a safe and loving space, I would actually just let them know that you need to not see them until you have their full love and support which includes not shaming or alienating you for feeding your baby.
This is such an excellent post. It's so easy to hold in anger for people who have wronged you, because, as much as we hate to admit it, people who do these kinds of things to us seem a little...monsterish. But once you put them back in a human perspective, it's easier to forgive. They ARE wounded people who are incapable of coming to terms with their cultural programming. They have issues, and it's sad to know a person who is so uncomfortable with the image of a close mother-child bond.

Have sympathy for them, but stand your ground. I agree not to see them in their house. Your turf, or neutral turf only. Perhaps over time, being exposed to the normalcy of breastfeeding, they can overcome their past hurt and emotional dissonance when it comes to mothering.
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#72 of 146 Old 01-18-2008, 02:14 PM
 
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I guess I'm immature because the first thing that popped into my head was to ignore their rudeness and invite them to dinner at your house. Then, when dh lets them in, come out of the kitchen...topless! Your house, your rules.

Oh, I know. But, can you imagine the looks on their faces?!

But, seriously. Lots of my family members were freaked out by the boobs. They got over it. My grandfather actually brags to people about how discreet I am..."You never even know that she's doing IT!"
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#73 of 146 Old 01-18-2008, 07:26 PM
 
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I would email my brother and tell him he could stuff it. That we'll see him in a couple of years when I'm done having babies, and he can enjoy his "common courtesy" without my company.
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#74 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 03:27 PM
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I dont think that Lactivism is all about me, I think that it IS all about my baby. I have the right to feed my child wherever I am and wherever I want to and if anyone even family believes that I dont well that is their problem and I have the right to not see them again. Feeding a child is never something that we should have to apologize for and covering up can be seen as doing exactly that. Many children dont like to be covered (mine would never do it) so it would be more of a big deal than to just let the child eat until it is done.
What would you say if I said that I think spanking my child is all about my child, and I have the right to spank my child wherever I am and whenever I want to, including in your house if you have an anti-spanking policy? What if I said that spanking a child is never something that we should have to apologize for and that taking a child into another room to spank them is doing exactly that?

For what it's worth, you do not have a "right" to breastfeed your baby in someone else's house if they do not want you to. If I am visiting the house of an orthodox Jew, I do not have a "right" to eat pork in his house, though it is legally my right to eat pork if I want to. If I am visiting the house of a nonsmoker, I do not have the "right" to smoke if I feel like it, although it is legally my right to smoke in a house. They have a right -- as we all have a right -- to set the rules within their house.
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#75 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 03:41 PM
 
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I'd stop the slogan right there. Short and to the point.

There is a balancing point between "my house, my rules" and traditional guest law (that it is the hosts' responsibility to make their guests, not themselves, comfortable). Time was in some places, it was worth your life to care for your guests properly... I guess these SILs are very lucky that that standard is no longer applied, huh.
This as another tack you can take if you want to get biblical. You could help the examine their Lot in life.

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#76 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 04:14 PM
 
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Meg, what about the child's right to EAT?

Nowhere in your posts do you acknowledge that, which to me (and I dare say most of us) is the ONLY important factor.

It's not about "them" or "us;" it's about taking care of the baby/child.

NO ONE has the right to deny sustenence to a baby or child, no matter whose home they are in. In other circumstances, that would be called abuse.

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#77 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 04:16 PM
 
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Personally, I always flashed my whole darn boob at anyone who gave me that kind of grief. Seriously, people need to get over it.
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#78 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 04:34 PM
 
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For what it's worth, you do not have a "right" to breastfeed your baby in someone else's house if they do not want you to. If I am visiting the house of an orthodox Jew, I do not have a "right" to eat pork in his house, though it is legally my right to eat pork if I want to. If I am visiting the house of a nonsmoker, I do not have the "right" to smoke if I feel like it, although it is legally my right to smoke in a house. They have a right -- as we all have a right -- to set the rules within their house.
I think anyone that knows ANYTHING about babies knows that they need to eat a lot. So by inviting a baby to your house, and then saying they can't eat like they normally do... is rude. It may be their "right", but doesn't make it RIGHT.

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#79 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 04:45 PM
 
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For what it's worth, you do not have a "right" to breastfeed your baby in someone else's house if they do not want you to. If I am visiting the house of an orthodox Jew, I do not have a "right" to eat pork in his house, though it is legally my right to eat pork if I want to. If I am visiting the house of a nonsmoker, I do not have the "right" to smoke if I feel like it, although it is legally my right to smoke in a house. They have a right -- as we all have a right -- to set the rules within their house.
These are all optional things. An adult can eat other things or wait to do these things later. A baby has a right to eat and be cared for on demand. If it offends you don't invite nursing pairs to your home , and expect that they will not visit.

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#80 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 05:34 PM
 
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Well, I don't know how old your baby is, but when I was nursing, if I ever tried to cover up, my son thought it was a game, pulling the blanket off and then pulling off the breast, leaving my nipple COMPLETELY EXPOSED, while he grinned, then pulling in to nurse again. Kind of like a silly peek a boo(b)
Babies like to see their mothers face when they are nursing, and maybe explaining that would help them understand. Covering the whole baby seems absurd to me.
Would your FSIL require that a nursing cat be covered up while feeding her kittens?
As much as the whole thing seems nonsense to us, your FSIL is obviously weirded out by the whole thing and is choosing to react out of fear instead of love. Who knows, maybe she's afraid your brother might like seeing your breast, I don't know.
I would politely let her know that you while you understand she is uncomfortable, nursing a baby is a completely normal activity and covering up the whole baby isn't fair to the baby who wants to stare into your loving eyes as he/she nurses. Send her some links to some pro-breastfeeding websites. Let her know you'd be thrilled if she reconsidered after she learns more about breastfeeding and until then, you can agree to disagree.
You could tell her you will accept the fact that you aren't welcome in their house, but they are still welcome in yours.
Good luck!
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#81 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 05:49 PM
 
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These are all optional things. An adult can eat other things or wait to do these things later. A baby has a right to eat and be cared for on demand. If it offends you don't invite nursing pairs to your home , and expect that they will not visit.
I think this says what Lactivism is about best. We all just want to be able to feed our babies when they're hungry without harassment by adults who have the ability to both feed themselves and avert their eyes. It really kills me that some adults seek to put their wants before the needs of children, and not just where breastfeeding is concerned.

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#82 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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What would you say if I said that I think spanking my child is all about my child, and I have the right to spank my child wherever I am and whenever I want to, including in your house if you have an anti-spanking policy? What if I said that spanking a child is never something that we should have to apologize for and that taking a child into another room to spank them is doing exactly that?

For what it's worth, you do not have a "right" to breastfeed your baby in someone else's house if they do not want you to. If I am visiting the house of an orthodox Jew, I do not have a "right" to eat pork in his house, though it is legally my right to eat pork if I want to. If I am visiting the house of a nonsmoker, I do not have the "right" to smoke if I feel like it, although it is legally my right to smoke in a house. They have a right -- as we all have a right -- to set the rules within their house.

all of these are optional, can be done later without any harm, and are not necessary to sustain human life... if a baby doesnt get fed, it dies.. simple as that.
if someone doesnt get the difference between feeding an infant and smoking well there is no point in even bothering to explain anything to them.

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#83 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 06:13 PM
 
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I tried to post this already, but it got lost in cyberspace. Forgive me if it appears twice.
What are you going to do about the wedding? What if your baby needs to nurse during the ceremony? Will you cover up out of respect for your brother and SIL? Will you leave the ceremony to find a quiet place? Try to nurse the babe in private before the ceremony starts? Sit in the back row and hope nobody notices? These are questions you and your dh will want to have answers to before the big day. You don't want any drama on their wedding day.
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#84 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 06:13 PM
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Meg, what about the child's right to EAT?

Nowhere in your posts do you acknowledge that, which to me (and I dare say most of us) is the ONLY important factor.

It's not about "them" or "us;" it's about taking care of the baby/child.

NO ONE has the right to deny sustenence to a baby or child, no matter whose home they are in. In other circumstances, that would be called abuse.
They're not denying the child the right to eat, so that's a fallacious argument that leaves me unconvinced because it's an intentional exaggeration. They're denying the child the right to eat right there in their house. That's their right. The OP has the right to leave, which I think is absolutely the right decision -- and if I were she, I would not return because they were also rude in how they treated her. However, it was their right to do so.
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#85 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by amandaleigh37 View Post
I think anyone that knows ANYTHING about babies knows that they need to eat a lot. So by inviting a baby to your house, and then saying they can't eat like they normally do... is rude. It may be their "right", but doesn't make it RIGHT.
Yes, on that I would agree. By the rules of common courtesy, they should've allowed her to breastfeed or not have invited her at all. Again, if I were the OP, I wouldn't be spending a heck of a lot of time with them in the future because of their selfish and demanding behavior.
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#86 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 06:20 PM
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These are all optional things. An adult can eat other things or wait to do these things later. A baby has a right to eat and be cared for on demand. If it offends you don't invite nursing pairs to your home , and expect that they will not visit.
I basically answered your argument in the post above. Some people, FWIW, don't view spanking as optional, and it would make even less sense than spanking normally makes to "wait to do [that] thing later" after the opportune spanking moment has arrived. The OP has the right to leave, which she did -- and (again), I think the BIL and his girlfriend's behavior was atrocious; however, it's their right to set the rules in their own house. I would totally agree with your last sentence, though.
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#87 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 06:43 PM
 
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I got similar treatment when I took my son to my aunt's house for a family Christmas last year; my cousin's wife saw me preparing to nurse Aedan in a corner of the living room, practically bolted to my side and said, "If you're looking for privacy, try the back bedroom."

Boobs are used to sell beer and cars all the time; why is it lewd to use them to feed a baby? Your brother and his fiance have problems; mostly they suffer from the We Don't Have Kids But We Know All About Babies Syndrome.

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#88 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 09:09 PM
 
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I disagree Meg.

When "you" invite a family over for a meal, "you" don't get to dictate that the baby has to go hungry just because "you" have suffer from the delusion that breasts = genitalia.

That SIL-to-be broke every rule of mature hostess behavior. She needs to grow up.

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#89 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 09:53 PM
 
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Meg, what about the child's right to EAT?

Nowhere in your posts do you acknowledge that, which to me (and I dare say most of us) is the ONLY important factor.

It's not about "them" or "us;" it's about taking care of the baby/child.

NO ONE has the right to deny sustenence to a baby or child, no matter whose home they are in. In other circumstances, that would be called abuse.

Devil's advocate here. Does the baby (any baby) care whether they eat in the living room with everyone or a bedroom with just mom?

It's not just about the baby's right to eat. It's also about the mom's right to feed the baby wherever she happens to be.

And there is no comparison between putting poison in someone's house (smoking) and feeding a baby.
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#90 of 146 Old 01-19-2008, 10:26 PM
 
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I think you did an excellent job of being "discrete":
1: constituting a separate entity : individually distinct <several discrete sections>2 a: consisting of distinct or unconnected elements : noncontinuous b: taking on or having a finite or countably infinite number of values <discrete probabilities> <a discrete random variable>

And you were also doing a great job of being discreet until she pushed the issue.

It's probably too late to say this, but don't say anything else to them just now. You're all too worked up for reasonable conversation.

Just decline any invitations to your brother's home from now on, and doublecheck other potential host's views on breastfeeding before you go over. If your parents are cool with you nursing with no cover then fiancee can just head on home if you nursing bugs her.
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