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#121 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 09:56 AM
 
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I don't think the point is whether or not we as individuals think breastfeeding a baby in a pool is a good idea or not. She's the mama; she gets to feed the baby wherever she's legally permitted.

I don't think the question is even whether or not other people are skeeved out by the idea of breastmilk in a pool. Again, she's the mamas and she gets to feed the baby wherever she's legally permitted.

I think the real question is whether or not she us legally permitted to feed the baby in the pool.

It has been really interesting and informative to see people roll up their sleeves and really dig into the law.
I'm happy we got to examine this issue and very civilly too. This is one of my first ventures into this forum as I've found Lactivism in my area to be more along the lines of "FF are awful awful parents". Having done both (as I can't produce milk for all that long) and thinking that NIP and the right to do so is very important, it's somewhat scary to come into these places, even though I really really want to. But this was refreshing. It will be an interesting case to see in the long term. In my thoughts, if it ends up with no food in pools being upheld, that's cool, or it ends up with a regulation with no food in the pool except breastmilk, that's cool (with me, not sure with others) too. But clarity is definitely needed.

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#122 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 11:35 AM
 
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Why do we keep comparing breastmilk to other forms of "outside"food and beverage? There are lots and lots of places where outside (or any) food and drink are not permitted: restaurants, theatres, many entertainment and sporting events, museums, school gynasiums, etc.

Those of you making the comparison: are you really prepared to say that breastfeeding in a pool is the same as breastfeeding in these other food-restricted locations?

It appears that nursing in the pool is simply against your own personal "ick" factor about chemicals et al. To each his own.

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#123 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 12:31 PM
 
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I'm also struggling with classifying breastfeeding as eating/drinking under the pool's (or anywhere's) rules.

So, when is BFing food or drink? It's not purchased in a store, or prepared, or transported or transferred in open air. Is it food when still in by breasts? Then it would be against the rules for any lactating woman to be in the pool area because we carry food around in our breasts. Is it food simply because the child swallows it? By that extension, the saliva that I swallow countless times a day would also be food. Additionally, the pool water that countless people swallow, however accidentally, would also be food/drink and there would not be allowed to be any pool water in the pool. Is it food because of it's nutritional value? Then BFing isn't allowed only because it's nutritious, and that would attack the foundations of the BFing culture.

I just don't see BM as food or drink in the spirit of this rule.

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#124 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ramama View Post
I'm also struggling with classifying breastfeeding as eating/drinking under the pool's (or anywhere's) rules.

So, when is BFing food or drink? It's not purchased in a store, or prepared, or transported or transferred in open air. Is it food when still in by breasts? Then it would be against the rules for any lactating woman to be in the pool area because we carry food around in our breasts. Is it food simply because the child swallows it? By that extension, the saliva that I swallow countless times a day would also be food. Additionally, the pool water that countless people swallow, however accidentally, would also be food/drink and there would not be allowed to be any pool water in the pool. Is it food because of it's nutritional value? Then BFing isn't allowed only because it's nutritious, and that would attack the foundations of the BFing culture.

I just don't see BM as food or drink in the spirit of this rule.
: I love how you articulate this!
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#125 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 06:24 PM
 
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I'm also struggling with classifying breastfeeding as eating/drinking under the pool's (or anywhere's) rules.

So, when is BFing food or drink? It's not purchased in a store, or prepared, or transported or transferred in open air. Is it food when still in by breasts? Then it would be against the rules for any lactating woman to be in the pool area because we carry food around in our breasts. Is it food simply because the child swallows it? By that extension, the saliva that I swallow countless times a day would also be food. Additionally, the pool water that countless people swallow, however accidentally, would also be food/drink and there would not be allowed to be any pool water in the pool. Is it food because of it's nutritional value? Then BFing isn't allowed only because it's nutritious, and that would attack the foundations of the BFing culture.

I just don't see BM as food or drink in the spirit of this rule.
It is FOOD, because it is eaten and fed to someone. So if I grow carrots in a garden, they are not food, because they weren't sold in stores? Breastmilk is a nourishing food, just as any other. Do I think it is much better for infants, yes! I never knew there was any disagreement about wether or not breastmilk was food!

And as far as someone else posted about not BFing where "outside" food is not accepted, is not the same at all. Outside food, being the key word here. That is strictly for the sake of purchasing THEIR food, not that food in general is not allowed! And they do not include bottles for infants in these areas anyway. They are only discussing food for kids and adults that they want you to purchase from them, rather than bring in. So I do not even see how that is relevant to what we are discussing.
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#126 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 06:28 PM
 
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I'm surprised by how many posters in this thread shared thoughts along this line. Recognizing that breastfeeding is a unique, biological means of nourishment and comfort does not radicalize it. Something can be "normal" and still be "special".

By way of comparison: people with physical disabilities seek to be accepted as "normal". Yet they have real physical needs and emotional needs (eg. independence and dignity) that require that "the rest of us" make special accommodations for them in public. We change our building codes to improve accessibility. We build wheelchair ramps. These "special" changes do help to normalize the entire matter. Advocates worked to have these changes accepted. I've yet to hear of those advocates being accused of creating a bad image of the disabled, or being part of the reason that some people may have negative feelings about disabled people being in public!

Same difference.

Recognizing that breastfeeding is a unique, biological means of nourishment is just that. That does not mean we should have special rights, just because we choose to feed our babies the natural way. We are not talking about any physical disability here. We are talking about feeding our babies NATURALLY. So what do people with special needs have to do with this? Again, it is comparing apples and oranges. Is it fair to discriminate against mother's who have to pump milk and give it to the infants out of a bottle? Is is fair to discriminate against formula fed babies and their mothers? Most of us do not like being discriminated against, so why would we choose to do it to others.
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#127 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 06:35 PM
 
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I think we must remember the element of common courtesy. I understand very well the world we're living in, but I think there is still room for this.

An example: There are surgical waiting rooms in which several children waiting for sugeries are forced to wait in together. Many of these children are hungry and cranky and have not eaten for 12-24 hours. Even though it would be my legal right to nurse my child in such a waiting room, I would respect the signs that said no food or drink and not nurse my child there.

If a pool has a rule that states no food or drink in the pool area, I would respect that as well whether or not it was my legal right to nurse there. I will restate that I think the way this pool owner dealt with the issue was disrespectful and OTT, but I don't personally think her rights were violated by being asked not to nurse in a pool with a no food or drink policy. Breastmilk is both food and drink regardless of delivery.

You said this perfectly!! I also agree that it could have been handled better by the pool owner, but that the mother also should have had the courtesy to obey what the lady stated the rules were and move to the side. It could have avoided a big scene, and maybe gave a better image of BF mothers. Instead it was turned into a war and brought a negative view to many people of "radical" BF mothers.

I think your statement about having common curtesy is the main issue in the world today, really! You stated the key to it all. So many people have a real lack of common curtesy on both sides.
Is it common curtesy to insist that we can BF ANYWHERE, even where other mothers are not allowed to feed their babies? This is like saying that we are "better" than those mothers in some way, and that they have somehow failed in being "special", because their babies are fed out of a bottle. This is a horrible attitude to have if we want BFing to be looked at as normal.
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#128 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 06:43 PM
 
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An example: There are surgical waiting rooms in which several children waiting for sugeries are forced to wait in together. Many of these children are hungry and cranky and have not eaten for 12-24 hours. Even though it would be my legal right to nurse my child in such a waiting room, I would respect the signs that said no food or drink and not nurse my child there.
Not to go OT -- but I can only picture 3 possible scenarios where you'd be in a surgical waiting room with your baby --

1)You're there as moral-support for a friend or family member whose child is having surgery,

2)Your baby is about to have surgery, and can't have anything by mouth at that point anyway, or

3)You and Baby are there with one of your other children, who's about to have surgery.

With scenario 1, I guess you could slip off if you thought children might be bothered by the sight of your baby nursing -- since you're not the parent of the child waiting for surgery, it's not like that child would be unattended, he'd have his own parent/s with him. But I seriously don't think most children would be bothered by a nursing or bottle-feeding baby.

With scenario 2, it's a moot point as you wouldn't be nursing anyway.

But with scenario 3, you can't leave your other child to slip off to nurse your baby. But your baby still needs to nurse. I can't imagine not nursing under those circumstances.

And, again, I don't understand all the discussion over whether it would be okay to give bottles on the pool-steps. Again, I ask: Has anyone ever seen a bottle-feeding mother get asked to move and go feed her baby in a changing-room? 'Cause I sure haven't.

So all this talk about not treating breastfeeding as "special" -- I don't think it's getting special treatment at all! If the woman in the article'd been feeding her baby a bottle on the pool-steps, I don't believe for one second that the pool-owner would have said a thing about it, and she certainly wouldn't have asked her to feed her baby in the changing-room! :

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#129 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 06:58 PM
 
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I'm also struggling with classifying breastfeeding as eating/drinking under the pool's (or anywhere's) rules.

So, when is BFing food or drink? It's not purchased in a store, or prepared, or transported or transferred in open air. Is it food when still in by breasts? Then it would be against the rules for any lactating woman to be in the pool area because we carry food around in our breasts. Is it food simply because the child swallows it? By that extension, the saliva that I swallow countless times a day would also be food. Additionally, the pool water that countless people swallow, however accidentally, would also be food/drink and there would not be allowed to be any pool water in the pool. Is it food because of it's nutritional value? Then BFing isn't allowed only because it's nutritious, and that would attack the foundations of the BFing culture.

I just don't see BM as food or drink in the spirit of this rule.
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It is FOOD, because it is eaten and fed to someone. So if I grow carrots in a garden, they are not food, because they weren't sold in stores? Breastmilk is a nourishing food, just as any other. Do I think it is much better for infants, yes! I never knew there was any disagreement about wether or not breastmilk was food!

And as far as someone else posted about not BFing where "outside" food is not accepted, is not the same at all. Outside food, being the key word here. That is strictly for the sake of purchasing THEIR food, not that food in general is not allowed! And they do not include bottles for infants in these areas anyway. They are only discussing food for kids and adults that they want you to purchase from them, rather than bring in. So I do not even see how that is relevant to what we are discussing.
So, carrots really don't apply to what I was talking about. I never said that BM is not food/drink, I just don't think it's applicable under the spirit of this rule. Just like an establishment that says "no food/no drink" will let you bring in a bottle of water. The rule is not hard and fast. I think the rule is in place at the pool to prevent people from bring their soda and sandwiches into the water.
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You said this perfectly!! I also agree that it could have been handled better by the pool owner, but that the mother also should have had the courtesy to obey what the lady stated the rules were and move to the side. It could have avoided a big scene, and maybe gave a better image of BF mothers. Instead it was turned into a war and brought a negative view to many people of "radical" BF mothers.

I think your statement about having common curtesy is the main issue in the world today, really! You stated the key to it all. So many people have a real lack of common curtesy on both sides.
Is it common curtesy to insist that we can BF ANYWHERE, even where other mothers are not allowed to feed their babies? This is like saying that we are "better" than those mothers in some way, and that they have somehow failed in being "special", because their babies are fed out of a bottle. This is a horrible attitude to have if we want BFing to be looked at as normal.
I think we skate of very thin ice when we start questioning when and how people exercise their rights. BFing mothers have a right to BF, regardless. I think I'm beating the voting analogy to death, but it applies. Non-citizens don't protest, pout, and cry foul because citizens exercise their right to vote, saying that if citizens vote they must be better than non-citizens. Not better, just different. Same exact thing here.

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#130 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 07:05 PM
 
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And, again, I don't understand all the discussion over whether it would be okay to give bottles on the pool-steps. Again, I ask: Has anyone ever seen a bottle-feeding mother get asked to move and go feed her baby in a changing-room? 'Cause I sure haven't.

So all this talk about not treating breastfeeding as "special" -- I don't think it's getting special treatment at all! If the woman in the article'd been feeding her baby a bottle on the pool-steps, I don't believe for one second that the pool-owner would have said a thing about it, and she certainly wouldn't have asked her to feed her baby in the changing-room! :
I have NEVER seen a bottle feeding mother feeding in the pool... And as far as the pool owner... maybe, maybe not. But that is judging her to say that you know what she would have done in another circumstance. She very well might have had the wrong mentality, but maybe not. We do not know her thoughts. She might have done the same thing with a bottle feeding mother. Have you seen mother's bottle feeding in pools? I never have.. maybe because they KNOW the rules apply to them, so they don't normally choose to break them. Some of the BF mother's however, apparently feel the rules do not apply to them, so they make an issue of it, hence everyone hears about it. Which like I stated before, can just give BF a bad name. That we don't have common curtesy for others, but apparently bottle feeding mothers do. I don't want to give people that view of us!
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#131 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 07:08 PM
 
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MommyofAngelBabies, many of the posts you're responding to weren't even directed to you. I'm confused why you're taking it all so personally.

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#132 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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So, carrots really don't apply to what I was talking about. I never said that BM is not food/drink, I just don't think it's applicable under the spirit of this rule. Just like an establishment that says "no food/no drink" will let you bring in a bottle of water. The rule is not hard and fast. I think the rule is in place at the pool to prevent people from bring their soda and sandwiches into the water.

I think we skate of very thin ice when we start questioning when and how people exercise their rights. BFing mothers have a right to BF, regardless. I think I'm beating the voting analogy to death, but it applies. Non-citizens don't protest, pout, and cry foul because citizens exercise their right to vote, saying that if citizens vote they must be better than non-citizens. Not better, just different. Same exact thing here.
The rule does not say, no soda or sandwiches, it says no food or drink. So where and who draws that line?

Ok, I can address your voting issue. It is NOT the same thing. If you want to compare apples to apples, than let's put it into perspective. Apples to apples, would be voters insisting that they can vote from their home, and insist that they do not need to go to a voting place. Non-citizens are just that, non-citizens. It is not the same thing whatsoever.
We are not talking about people excercising their rights, we are talking about where the line is drawn, and what is considered crossing it.
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#133 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 07:13 PM
 
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MommyofAngelBabies, many of the posts you're responding to weren't even directed to you. I'm confused why you're taking it all so personally.
What?? I am not taking anything personally. I thought we were having an open discussion here. Aren't we? Or am I not allowed to post unless spoken to first? I'm really confused now.
I was responding to other people's questions. I am new here, so please tell me if I am not supposed to do this. I did not see that in the rules anywhere, but maybe I missed it? I guess I didn't think that only the person who was quoted could respond. Could you please clarify for me.
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#134 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 07:16 PM
 
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I was just concerned about you. You were quoting people and saying "I never said!" when no one ever said that you ever said. Clear as mud? I just would hate to see you take a message board so personally as to assume every post was directed at you.

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#135 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 07:26 PM
 
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I was just concerned about you. You were quoting people and saying "I never said!" when no one ever said that you ever said. Clear as mud? I just would hate to see you take a message board so personally as to assume every post was directed at you.
Thanks for the concern, but I really wasn't taking it personally. And for the life of me, I can't find any of my posts where I said "I never said"... just one post by ramama where she said that...

And yes, clear otherwise.
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#136 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 07:29 PM
 
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The rule does not say, no soda or sandwiches, it says no food or drink. So where and who draws that line?

Ok, I can address your voting issue. It is NOT the same thing. If you want to compare apples to apples, than let's put it into perspective. Apples to apples, would be voters insisting that they can vote from their home, and insist that they do not need to go to a voting place. Non-citizens are just that, non-citizens. It is not the same thing whatsoever.
We are not talking about people excercising their rights, we are talking about where the line is drawn, and what is considered crossing it.
I don't get it. Earlier this month millions of people voted from home. The nature of an analogy is that it compares things that appear to be different on the surface, but share a commonality.

And I have seen babies bottle-fed in a pool. Where there were signs. To be fair, I have also BFed on pool steps without harassment.

And lets not forget that in the initial confrontation with the pool owner, the owner never brought up the "no food, no drink" rule. She merely said that she needed to move because they've had complaints. She wasn't offered a place away from the pool (or out of the "pool area") but was told to go to the changing room. It wasn't until after it became an "issue" that the owner brought up the "no food, no drink" rule. Therefore, this rule is merely a red herring. The real issue is that the woman did not want a woman in a bathing suit BFing on the pool steps because of "complaints." I think, as BFing mothers, we all know what these "complaints" likely were.

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#137 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 08:21 PM
 
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Bringing EPing into a discussion about BFing is like telling an apple that it's really an orange.

I guess it's just so wrong for BFing mother to actually BF where they are legally allowed to. Exercising your rights is not elitist. (Darn those women who insist on voting. They're so elitist.)
Again, by bringing gender into the discussion, you are again confusing the issue. And since you can't see the correlation between BFing and EPing, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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I don't think the point is whether or not we as individuals think breastfeeding a baby in a pool is a good idea or not. She's the mama; she gets to feed the baby wherever she's legally permitted.

I don't think the question is even whether or not other people are skeeved out by the idea of breastmilk in a pool. Again, she's the mamas and she gets to feed the baby wherever she's legally permitted.

I think the real question is whether or not she us legally permitted to feed the baby in the pool.

It has been really interesting and informative to see people roll up their sleeves and really dig into the law.
Yes!!!!!

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On the other hand, there are "no food or drink" signs all over our subways, and yet I bottlefed and tube fed my son on them without hesitation and would have breastfed as well. Similarly, I would never eat or drink (other than communion) in church -- it would feel incredibly disrespectful, but I'd feed an infant without second thought.
I do think think there are differences between infants eating and adults eating, and there are time when the rules that apply to adults should exclude infants, and times when they shouldn't. Unfortunately, sorting out the two can be difficult. So, I think the question here is whether the pool owners had a reasonable reason to believe that breastfeeding in the pool might be potentially problematic. Given that there's debate about that here I can say that I think it is (potentially problematic, not definitely problematic).
You can choose which rules you follow and which rules you break. All actions have consequences, some good and some bad. We just need to be prepared for the outcome, whatever it may be.

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#138 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 08:39 PM
 
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Again, by bringing gender into the discussion, you are again confusing the issue. And since you can't see the correlation between BFing and EPing, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Gender is very applicable in this case. Under the Ontario Human Rights Code BFing is protected under "sex" because, according to the Code, BFing is so intrinsically related to womanhood that BFing rights are given for the same reason that women are given the right to vote and protected from discrimination in the work place. Lactation and womanhood cannot be separated, nor should they be. Therefore, under the Code, denying a woman's right to breastfeed is legally identical to not allowing her to vote.

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#139 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 08:49 PM
 
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Gender is very applicable in this case. Under the Ontario Human Rights Code BFing is protected under "sex" because, according to the Code, BFing is so intrinsically related to womanhood that BFing rights are given for the same reason that women are given the right to vote and protected from discrimination in the work place. Lactation and womanhood cannot be separated, nor should they be. Therefore, under the Code, denying a woman's right to breastfeed is legally identical to not allowing her to vote.

Wow! Very well put!

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#140 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 09:13 PM
 
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Gender is very applicable in this case. Under the Ontario Human Rights Code BFing is protected under "sex" because, according to the Code, BFing is so intrinsically related to womanhood that BFing rights are given for the same reason that women are given the right to vote and protected from discrimination in the work place. Lactation and womanhood cannot be separated, nor should they be. Therefore, under the Code, denying a woman's right to breastfeed is legally identical to not allowing her to vote.
Exactly! Perfectly put.
Whether or not anyone agrees with nursing in a pool, in the province of Ontraio any interference with a nursing mother in a place she is allowed to be is against the law.
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#141 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 09:31 PM
 
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Have you seen mother's bottle feeding in pools?
I actually don't recall noticing either bottle or breastfeeding in the pool. But then -- I don't wear my glasses in the water so I think there's a lot I don't see. And my 3yo's a very busy little daredevil (as is her sis, only she's a good swimmer now), so I barely have time to look around or converse when we're swimming.

Though I certainly would breastfeed (and have breastfed) wherever my babies wanted to nurse, the pool-thing hasn't been an issue for us, because we didn't start taking our oldest swimming 'til she was 2, and she started, right off, jumping into the water in her water-wings, and swimming all over ... she wasn't really interested in being nursed or cuddled at the pool.

In contrast, our youngest was scared of pools until last summer when she was 3, so for Baby's first 3 summers, dh took dd1 swimming while I stayed home with Baby. But if our circumstances had been slightly different, I probably would have been one of those mamas nursing in the pool. Because both my girls were very frequent nursers as younger babies and toddlers, and I'm sure they would have been rooting for the breast in the water.

Again, this is an issue a bottlefeeding mother doesn't have to deal with -- the need to nurse is less likely to come up in the pool, because a baby who doesn't breastfeed, doesn't associate Mommy's breast or nipple with nursing, so contact with Mommy's breast isn't as likely to trigger the suckling reflex.

I agree with the posters who've said there's no reason to assume that pool-nursing increases the likelihood of breastmilk getting into the water -- many mothers leak, so the only way to ensure no milk getting in would be to ban breastfeeders.

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I never have.. maybe because they KNOW the rules apply to them, so they don't normally choose to break them. Some of the BF mother's however, apparently feel the rules do not apply to them, so they make an issue of it, hence everyone hears about it. Which like I stated before, can just give BF a bad name. That we don't have common curtesy for others, but apparently bottle feeding mothers do. I don't want to give people that view of us!
It's just bizarre to me how quick people are to say "breastfeeding's getting a bad name." Though I haven't noticed bottlefeeding (or breastfeeding) in the swimming pool -- I have seen bottlefeeding pretty much anywhere and everywhere that mothers go with their babies, and no one asks the mothers to move or acts like they're "giving bottlefeeding a bad name."

In contrast, I've been asked to "go somewhere more private (to breastfeed)" on more than one occasion. And when I questioned the people who thought I should move, they never tried to pretend that they'd feel the same way if I were bottlefeeding. Some even seemed to think I should have been "proactive" enough to pump my milk into bottles for public outings.

I really like the analogy one poster made with church -- an older child or adult generally wouldn't do more than eat a mint or drink from a water-bottle in church -- but most people think nothing of a baby or toddler drinking milk from a bottle or sippy-cup in church. Rules are generally relaxed for the littlest members of society, as they should be ...

But, not to overuse the church-analogy: This is one place where I've been asked to exercise more "discretion." Apparently, all breastfeeding babies are supposed to come into the world, liking to eat with blankets draped over their heads. It's okay for bottlefeeders to want to stay in the light and look around -- but how dare those breastfeeders want those same priveleges! Their mamas are giving breastfeeding a bad name!

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#142 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 10:17 PM
 
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I don't think the point is whether or not we as individuals think breastfeeding a baby in a pool is a good idea or not. She's the mama; she gets to feed the baby wherever she's legally permitted.

I don't think the question is even whether or not other people are skeeved out by the idea of breastmilk in a pool. Again, she's the mamas and she gets to feed the baby wherever she's legally permitted.

I think the real question is whether or not she us legally permitted to feed the baby in the pool.

It has been really interesting and informative to see people roll up their sleeves and really dig into the law.
Yes!!!!!
Right. And the law is totally on her side on this one.

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#143 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 10:36 PM
 
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With scenario 1, I guess you could slip off if you thought children might be bothered by the sight of your baby nursing -- since you're not the parent of the child waiting for surgery, it's not like that child would be unattended, he'd have his own parent/s with him. But I seriously don't think most children would be bothered by a nursing or bottle-feeding baby.

With scenario 2, it's a moot point as you wouldn't be nursing anyway.

But with scenario 3, you can't leave your other child to slip off to nurse your baby. But your baby still needs to nurse. I can't imagine not nursing under those circumstances.

And, again, I don't understand all the discussion over whether it would be okay to give bottles on the pool-steps. Again, I ask: Has anyone ever seen a bottle-feeding mother get asked to move and go feed her baby in a changing-room? 'Cause I sure haven't.

So all this talk about not treating breastfeeding as "special" -- I don't think it's getting special treatment at all! If the woman in the article'd been feeding her baby a bottle on the pool-steps, I don't believe for one second that the pool-owner would have said a thing about it, and she certainly wouldn't have asked her to feed her baby in the changing-room! :
As the one who originally brought up the surgical waiting room thing (not on this post) I'd say that yes, a nursing toddler who isn't allowed to nurse, even though they're scared and hungry, is going to be upset to see another child nursed. And if I were the mother of that child I'd be pretty upset to see him have to deal with that. The surgical waiting room in our children's hospital has private rooms (actual rooms with actual doors, not curtains) where you can go if your child is more comforted by being alone, or to change into a gown, or to feed your baby -- I've seen them direct a nursing mother there. I've never actually seen them send a bottle feeding mother there, but only because I've never seen a mother bottle feed there, but I have seen them swoop in on a mother who left her younger child's bottle out on the tray of her stroller and demand that she put it out of sight immediately.

As to the other question -- I've seen bottle fed mothers asked to move off the deck/steps of the pool because of a "no food on deck" policy. I've never seen them ask a nursing mother to do the same thing. Whether they'd send a bottle feeding mother to the changing room would, I'm guessing, depend on the set up of the pool. Our outdoor pool has a big grassy area surrounding it where you're welcome to eat -- so I'd hope if they were sending any baby-feeding mama anywhere it would be there. Our indoor pool has only pool and deck -- to get anywhere else you have to go through the changing room, so I guess if they asked someone to move off the deck it would mean going to/through the changing room.

I'm not sure what I think in this situation as to whether in this specific situation nursing and bottlefeeding should be treated comparably, to me that answer depends on whether the reasons for banning bottlefeeding apply to nursing, and I'm still a little unsure of that. However, I can say that asking them to leave the deck and possibly go to/through the changing room might be comparable to how I've seen bottle feeding mamas treated.
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#144 of 272 Old 11-17-2008, 10:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momily View Post
As the one who originally brought up the surgical waiting room thing (not on this post) I'd say that yes, a nursing toddler who isn't allowed to nurse, even though they're scared and hungry, is going to be upset to see another child nursed. And if I were the mother of that child I'd be pretty upset to see him have to deal with that. The surgical waiting room in our children's hospital has private rooms (actual rooms with actual doors, not curtains) where you can go if your child is more comforted by being alone, or to change into a gown, or to feed your baby -- I've seen them direct a nursing mother there. I've never actually seen them send a bottle feeding mother there, but only because I've never seen a mother bottle feed there, but I have seen them swoop in on a mother who left her younger child's bottle out on the tray of her stroller and demand that she put it out of sight immediately.
Excellent point -- and I honestly can't imagine any mother, nursing or bottlefeeding, not understanding and not being willing to slip off in this situation.

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#145 of 272 Old 11-18-2008, 12:51 AM
 
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Not the poster this is addressed to but,

Um, peeing in the pool. Sweaty, icky people. I know there is the occasional poop in the pool. It's like a big bathtub with large amounts of chemicals in it.



I personally wasn't fond of DD nursing from my very chlorine-y boob, so I'd go rinse off first.
I can understand if you have a small baby. But even at 6 months old my kid was in the pool and there was water touching his lips. Also kids drink a fair amount of pool water. All kids do. So it is kinda silly to not nurse them because of stuff in the water.
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#146 of 272 Old 11-18-2008, 12:55 AM
 
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But toddlers and preschoolers are blowing bubbles and opening their eyes in and swallowing way more of this water than a baby would ever get from the skin while nursing.
Exactly!!!
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#147 of 272 Old 11-18-2008, 01:04 AM
 
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I'm also struggling with classifying breastfeeding as eating/drinking under the pool's (or anywhere's) rules.

So, when is BFing food or drink? It's not purchased in a store, or prepared, or transported or transferred in open air. Is it food when still in by breasts? Then it would be against the rules for any lactating woman to be in the pool area because we carry food around in our breasts. Is it food simply because the child swallows it? By that extension, the saliva that I swallow countless times a day would also be food. Additionally, the pool water that countless people swallow, however accidentally, would also be food/drink and there would not be allowed to be any pool water in the pool. Is it food because of it's nutritional value? Then BFing isn't allowed only because it's nutritious, and that would attack the foundations of the BFing culture.

I just don't see BM as food or drink in the spirit of this rule.

I agree. Breatfeeding mothers can have a let down even without their kids nursing. What about all the pee in the other? And women that have thier period ( that even with a tampax could still leak)? How much milk can a mother leak into a pool that woul make a difference? One ounce? 2? 10? 40 onces?

I have nursed my kid in the pool. No drop of milk went into the water.
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#148 of 272 Old 11-18-2008, 01:08 AM
 
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A bit OT, but just for kicks...Did you all catch that the owner of the pool said "You're not allowed to obviously pee in the pool" : If you're discrete, go ahead and pee! (I think she meant y"ou're obviously not allowed to pee in the pool" at least that's what I hope she meant)

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#149 of 272 Old 11-18-2008, 02:03 AM
 
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I can understand if you have a small baby. But even at 6 months old my kid was in the pool and there was water touching his lips. Also kids drink a fair amount of pool water. All kids do. So it is kinda silly to not nurse them because of stuff in the water.
:

Um, my kids absolutely DO NOT ingest bath water, pool water, or any kind of human filth soup especially when mixed with chlorine.

My six month old certainly did not swallow pool water. I, as her mother, did have control of what my six month old was putting in her mouth AT ALL TIMES!!! My babies mouths never got near pool water. My almost 5 year old knows darned well not to put that in her mouth.

Personal ick factor identified. Pool water is gro-dy! (and yet we spend every day @ the pool in the summer, mouths clamped shut)
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#150 of 272 Old 11-18-2008, 01:29 PM
 
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Um, my kids absolutely DO NOT ingest bath water, pool water, or any kind of human filth soup especially when mixed with chlorine.
Either your kids never went through a long-and-intense oral stage like mine did, or you've micro-managed them to a degree that I would simply not be willing to do to my own children, because I think freedom-to-explore with their senses is an intgral right for every child.

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Personal ick factor identified. Pool water is gro-dy! (and yet we spend every day @ the pool in the summer, mouths clamped shut)
Again, maybe you and your children are just different personalities from me and mine -- going around with our "mouths clamped shut" would seriously cramp our styles ...

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